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Well, it was made by Cruddace. He's not that great at balance, it seems...

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

To be fair, thats less a problem with the faction, than it is with the mechanics. As long as theres some chance involved you will have those David vs Warhound Titan scenarios. Its not like Imperial Guardsmen are the only unit that seems way to puny compared by the things that usually charge it. But I do agree that it completely kills off immersion when it happens. I think it was on this very site that i read about standard Chaos Cultists throwing enough attacks around to kill terminators.

Stuebi wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

To be fair, thats less a problem with the faction, than it is with the mechanics. As long as theres some chance involved you will have those David vs Warhound Titan scenarios. Its not like Imperial Guardsmen are the only unit that seems way to puny compared by the things that usually charge it. But I do agree that it completely kills off immersion when it happens. I think it was on this very site that i read about standard Chaos Cultists throwing enough attacks around to kill terminators.

The greatest moment, though, was when my friend's (He's here on Dakka btw, 'Silentspy22') Gretchin took down an Avatar.

Nobody cared about the immersion-breaking there, we were laughing our faces off, but it can get tedious when things like that get too common.

I vote "none" to be on the chopping block. I think they all add to the setting, even though I wasn't a big fan of Tau when they first came out, even as it originally seemed like a blatant grab to coincide with moving into the Japanese market. I even like the idea of fielding them in Epic scale, though I don't really like their "flyers only" approach at War Machines. It seems like the Tau, of anyone, would have some sort of Titan-scale battlesuit.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

But what about chaos humans; enslaved by a tyrannical warlord who just wants a ton of LRBT's?
Then you have the morality question in war: Are they truly evil, just because they are forced into chaos, or are they still irredeemable?
Immersive as feth, imo.

Not what I meant.

I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

Aw, I've had different experiences with IG. My friend who plays as them is fething insane - he'll run dozens of IG into melee to cover for his ramming-speed LRBT's with trigger happy battlecannons firing at point blank range (He moved away before 6th ed came in, sadly).
We had one game where for about ten or so turns (we always ignored the turn cap) my DP and his Yarrick played tag across the battlefiled. Yarrick would assault my DP, get knocked down, my DP would go kill something and then Yarrick would get back up and try again

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:


I meant things like seeing your friend's Nobs mob get charged and cut down by a Guardsman Infantry Squad. When that happened even the IG player cringed.

I mean, some (Like most IG players, I imagine!) love that, but for me it is immersion-breaking to see.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Why in the name of Gork, Mork, Khorne and the greater Good would I want to remove a race from the 40k setting?

 Kosake wrote:
Why in the name of Gork, Mork, Khorne and the greater Good would I want to remove a race from the 40k setting?

Spite? Sore Loser Syndrome? Arachnophobia?

I just find it funny there are so many people saying Tau should go because they're too anime-ish. To me Tau are a very generic sci-fi alien race. That's not bad, mind you. I just don't see much specific style to them. I really can't see any anime influence in them. At least not compared to Eldar with their feathered armor, giant crests on their helmets, and gem encrusted everything.

Tau. Came out of nowhere + stupid anime aesthetic. Necrons too, though at least they actually were represented in the fluff in the early days.

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
Necrons...I just hate the tomb kings in space aesthetic. Liked them better as the terminators.

Tomb kings in space aesthetic? You mean the aesthetic they've always had?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I vote "none" to be on the chopping block. I think they all add to the setting, even though I wasn't a big fan of Tau when they first came out, even as it originally seemed like a blatant grab to coincide with moving into the Japanese market. I even like the idea of fielding them in Epic scale, though I don't really like their "flyers only" approach at War Machines. It seems like the Tau, of anyone, would have some sort of Titan-scale battlesuit.

The Tau are meant to be geared as the next gen military of the future. I can see the 'anime' grab, but in many respects they just actually brought some of Heinlein's work to the table top (mobile battlesuits that can deploy from space/aircraft).

As a result, huge robots are kind of out of step with the Tau mo. A huge robot is just a huge target and thus easily destroyable by a bunch of guys with rockets and a tube to launch them from. The Riptide stretches it a bit to much given it's large size. Shield or no shield, eventually some joe with a missle launcher would end it's career as it can't take cover anywhere.

I think trying to cap a battlesuit at 10-12 feet tall would have been sufficient.

Although, I do understand the Tau hate as they seem very anime (I myself cannot stand anime, but really enjoy the Tau), the fact they are 'good', and the fact that as a concept they spit mud in the eye of the imperial fanboys.

Tau, because they're way too morally bright to fit in with the universe outside of pitiful attempts to dull this idea (mind controlling isn't grimdark enough for me) and because their play style in the game works to reduce the enjoyment their opponent is having until it becomes a case of deploy models, put away models without accomplishing anything on some occasions, far more than any other army.

Tau, because they're way too morally bright to fit in with the universe outside of pitiful attempts to dull this idea (mind controlling isn't grimdark enough for me) and because their play style in the game works to reduce the enjoyment their opponent is having until it becomes a case of deploy models, put away models without accomplishing anything on some occasions, far more than any other army.

That is a result of crappy 6th edition, not the Tau at large. In previous edition people cried about how UNDERpowered they were.

As a result, huge robots are kind of out of step with the Tau mo. A huge robot is just a huge target and thus easily destroyable by a bunch of guys with rockets and a tube to launch them from. The Riptide stretches it a bit to much given it's large size. Shield or no shield, eventually some joe with a missle launcher would end it's career as it can't take cover anywhere.

True. It probably stems from my latest endeavor into Epic: Armageddon with them. I am not comfortable yet with flyers in my force, and that's kind of a requisite if you want to field Tau war machines on the scale of Titans and Baneblades. Though there is a nice new fan army list that uses pairs of Riptides as a war machine formation.

Tomb kings in space aesthetic? You mean the aesthetic they've always had?

Nope. They used to be just out to destroy all life in the Milky Way for their own mysterious purposes. All the way back to 2nd edition. Tomb Kings is new.

Grey knights.

Just them

the rest of the inquisition can stay.

Nah, just keep them as they first appeared, as squads of Terminators that can be called upon like Deathwatch marines.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Tomb kings in space aesthetic? You mean the aesthetic they've always had?

Nope. They used to be just out to destroy all life in the Milky Way for their own mysterious purposes. All the way back to 2nd edition. Tomb Kings is new.

You're right. This guy totally doesn't look like a tomb king at all.

I'll give you that, but oldcrons were not newcrons.

 soomemafia wrote:

Deadeight wrote:
To all saying they'd remove a Space Marine one just because there are many of them, I think you're missing a crucial point.

By having more space marine codexes, the space marine players are divided up across more diverse armies. If you didn't have, say, the Blood Angels codex then those players would most likely have chosen some other space marine codex... and you'd be facing even less variety.

I disagree. It's good that we have variety, but stupid that each have their own codex.
Eldar have different craftworlds but you don't see them getting a codex each. Easy to understand, but it's idiotic that GW has made Marines their unique snowflake pet and that they get specialities on the expensive of other armies.


My dream would be a SM super-codex. Much like the one we have now, but with SW, BA and DA there aswell. Other choice would be a codex: SM with different cheapish Chapter supplements.

A couple of points why:
1) their unique rules (DoA, Inner Circle) are already very similar to Chapter tactics.
2) most of the units are still same. Each faction could have a couple of their own named characters and two or three own units.
3) that would keep the prices on the same level. Right now the older marine Codices have clear disadvantage compared to the newer ones.

In a perfect world where players are going to divide up equally between the armies, I agree. But in reality you'll end up with like half the players wanting to play out of the same codex.

It may not make a massive difference if you're an eldar playing one of the space marines armies, but there's an enormous difference between playing vanilla marines vs vanilla marines and vanilla marines vs space wolves. If you fold the other chapters into the space marines codex and make the units more similar you negatively affect a lot of players, and you risk making a lot of games bein very samey.

I think at the end of the day you've got to look at the effect that it will have on the average game you play. At least at the moment if you play a space wolves player and then a blood angels player, you're getting grey hunter/longfang spam and then deepstriking land raiders. It keeps games more diverse, even if you think only marginally so, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Welcome to chaos stop complaining loyalists :U

...Squats. Oh wait they already did that. Good.

*Runs away fast*

Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

Because Tolkein.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

Yeah, although that doesn't bother me so much. Their noblebrightness is purchased through fire and fury, and possibly through mind-control and mass oppression (depending on how you interpret different aspects of 40k fluff, like the Dawn of War games which outright illustrate oppression on the part of the Tau). So it's not like you just transplanted some Mary Sue's in, or anything.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

Yeah, although that doesn't bother me so much. Their noblebrightness is purchased through fire and fury, and possibly through mind-control and mass oppression (depending on how you interpret different aspects of 40k fluff, like the Dawn of War games which outright illustrate oppression on the part of the Tau). So it's not like you just transplanted some Mary Sue's in, or anything.

Nah, that's SM territory.

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Eldar, because they're annoying pompous space elves and Necrons do their job better.

Also I have absolutely zero idea how people can somehow complain about Tau looking anime style and then not worry about Eldar.

I think both look silly. But my main problem with the Tau isn't really that they look silly (although they do), but it's because they're a 17 (maybe up to 21?) system empire in Warhammer 40,000. It is literally like having El Salvador participate in a game about World War II.

That and the whole noblebright theme people tend to see in them.

Yeah, although that doesn't bother me so much. Their noblebrightness is purchased through fire and fury, and possibly through mind-control and mass oppression (depending on how you interpret different aspects of 40k fluff, like the Dawn of War games which outright illustrate oppression on the part of the Tau). So it's not like you just transplanted some Mary Sue's in, or anything.

Nah, that's SM Ultramarines territory.

Try not to generalize - fixed it for you

I would remove...

Space-Dwarves.
Space Marines in polychromatic power armor.
Aliens lead by Lovecraft rejects.
Chaos Gods that don't get along at all and refuse to be on the same field together, and if their troops are forced to be, they might fight against one another.

Grey knights should have never got their own codex & units in power armour, or dreadknights etc...

They should and always should have stayed as individual squad allies, like deathwatch use to be and like they were in 2nd edition. They should all be in terminator armour and all have fore halberds. They were so so so so much cooler when you didn't really know much about them other than they were the elite deamon fighters of the imperium, and then, if a threat was enough to warrant their appearance you knew they were pretty much doomed as well as the deamons fighting them. They were the ultra rare, and ultra elite, possibly only numbering 100 or so, not a full blown chapter really.

The reason why I liked that they didn't know much about them was because the information that was printed on them was pretty much just rumours and scarce sightings from other imperial troops, no specifics other than they were based on Titan/