Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There is no true 'official' canon in 40K, as Lynata kindly pointed out.

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

Here are some things that I commonly see debating over:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

What about the Void Dragon?

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

How large are the Hive Fleets?



Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

Hmm, nice thread. Let's see.

I consider Chaos, Necrons and Orks to be the most powerful armies in the galaxy atm.

The Imperium will most likely be destroyed when Abaddon launches a new crusade towards Terra. I could see the battles in the sol system might awaken the Void Dragon which could attract the Necrons and the Eldar to the battle. Thousands of year later it will probably just be Necrons vs Orks vs Tyranids.

The current Hive fleets are but a fraction of the main fleet that has yet to arrive in the galaxy.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
There is no true 'official' canon in 40K, as Lynata kindly pointed out.

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?


Here are some things that I commonly see debating over:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?
IG: I personally view imperial guard much like modern armies, the training is the true difference between regiments and armies, a SF guy with the exact same equipment as a conscript will beat conscript 9/10
Space Marines: They can take a helluva beating, and dish it out, but they are not immortal
Orks: Tough as they come, generally slow witted and hit like a truck
How bad is the Imperium's current situation?
Depends on the region, around the Eye its pretty freaking bad as well as in front of hive fleets, areas that are not in those regions are relatively safe
How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?
Really old. The Warp does some crazy stuff with time, heck you can through a police booth with a space marine into a hole in the warp and Tada! Dr. Who
What about the Void Dragon?
Om nom nom I may be the omnissiah
How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?
30ft+, and if I have any questions on spaceship size I look at RT books
How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?
Very
How large are the Hive Fleets?
I honestly think the sight of an entire hivefleet would be the most depressing demoralising thing in the universe (yes even more depressing than a GUO erupting from sweet old Grandmas chest


Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?
Pretty loyal to the table top honestly. It gets a bit odd here and there (S D, T5 dp, bikers taht are tougher than dps, thousand sons being incapable of divination, etc) but the general strength of a SM is about where they are on the table top, although I nudge them up to be a bit more tanky just because even my suspension of disbelief and rule of cool needs something a bit more. Necrons are really strong but there standard guns don't pierce through the earth. Eldar are hyper advanced but fragile, de same, daemonettes are faster, blah blah blah. Overall, pretty darn accurate to the power level they normally would bar codices being overpowered and underpowered.
How bad is the Imperium's current situation?
Pretty darn bad. There are 3 prime evils with one just edging out the other two (chaos). Chaos from the NW, Nids from (the bottom) East, and then necrons from the SE I think? All and all, it's not going so great. Cadia has (is inevitably) falling with the 13th crusade, the real world and the warp will meld together to the horror of many thus bringing them a threat to necrons and with the loss of much bio force join in the nids clashing extremely often despite the battles being disadvantageous to eachother in each combat. Primarchs will rise but so too will the daemon primarchs. Despite it all, there will be a glimmer of hope for nothing is dark without some small bit of hope to cling onto....
How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?
Depends for loyalists. Are they blood angels? At most 2000 years. Are they pretty much any other marine force? Ah, at best about.... 650 years? *shrugs* Traitors can be 10k years old, younger, and older. The warp does not function like ours and arguably it has tainted them.
What about the Void Dragon?
*shrug* honestly I find it both cool and not so cool having him right next to the planet Terra. Just seems to be the perfect oh we still win. That being said, I want it to be the REAL Void Dragon if it has to be. No stupid shard, not for the Void Dragon.
How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?
As big as you wish O.O depends. We have some reliable values from FFG and the board games.
How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?
Extremely effective. One day.... one day tyranids will accept the warp and we will have CHAOTIC GRIBBLIES! And then chaos and the hive mind shall be delighted as they feed on emotions AND the lands! But in general even Gk aren't entirely resistant to them...
How large are the Hive Fleets?
Pretty big. That being said, I dislike it when a single faction straight up dominates another. For example, I disagree with the SW are better than all other loyalists and so too do I dislike the fluff that makes CSM, SoB, and Guardsman look like idiots compared to the murines. Draigo? Glorified tales. Hive fleets? Whilst big they haven't swallowed galaxies that had much resistance and are heavily crippled on each trip as many die on the travel. The slow spreading of chaos and awakening of necrons will buffer them and equal them out whilst the tau begin to prepare ways to fight them. Necrons are nerfed from having a well everything perfect and capable of countering daemons super easily. Chaos corrupts all O.O ya bastards :U. Orks are extremely strong but will never be unified so they are a threat that pops up anywhere and everywhere though cause da orks like to rumble!

Examples of my "personal canon":

The 13th Black Crusade is ongoing and Cadia is besieged. In short, I consider the most important events of the world-wide campaign canon.

Imperium's situation is dire. They aren't dead yet, but the Black Crusade, Tyranid Hive Fleets and Orks attack on multiple fronts.

CSM can become really, really old. Loyalists are extremely long-lived considering the average human's lifespan, and the Chaos-imbued Traitors can actually be several thousand years old and kicking.

I know enough about the new Necron fluff to know that I prefer the older fluff.

Regarding the size of Titans, I acknowledge the dimensions listed in Lexicanum.

Chaos influence can be resisted, but if you're unaware of it or simply not resilient enough, you gonna get swayed.

Hive Fleets are immense.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
There is no true 'official' canon in 40K, as Lynata kindly pointed out.

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

Here are some things that I commonly see debating over:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?
I see the average IG infantryperson as being roughly as good as a veteran US marine

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?
I see them starting to slowly collapsing after the 13th black crusade

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?
2000 years, and the CSM haven't really experienced 10k due to the effects of the warp

What about the Void Dragon?
He's going to awaken and the Emperor is going to ascend after fighting him

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?
Titans are 50m high, and the average imperial ship is the size of a star destroyer

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?
Looking at a chaos symbol will have the average person today turning in a week

How large are the Hive Fleets?
They likely have 300 million gaunts in them

Some of my thoughts.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
There is no true 'official' canon in 40K, as Lynata kindly pointed out.

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

Here are some things that I commonly see debating over:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?
Common humans, such as Guardsmen and Cultists, die in absolute masses to almost everything. Lasguns are flashlights. The IG pull through by use of tanks, ludicrous numbers, and artillery. Sisters are far tougher than Guardsmen, but their reduced physiology works against them, so they can only use much smaller and thinner armour, and much smaller weapons as well. Necrons are very very very hard to kill, continously selfrepairing from almost anything, and their weapons can 'punch' through tank plate. Marines and Chaos Marines are almost unstoppable oneshot-everything shrugs-off-pretty-much-everything demigods. A fight between a SM and a CSM takes quite some time. Power Armour- including Sororitas Power Armour, though being much smaller means it is less effective in protection- is capable of absorbing a plasma hit or two without breaking. Combined with Astartes toughness, this means that they can take several Meltagun or even Lascannon hits and keep fighting. The same goes for artillery, which really is not that effective against PA, dealing little damage other than the blunt force, as seen below. Terminators take this up to 11.

Grey Knights are ludicrously powerful, being Marines with better training and wargear AND psychic powers. Don't even ask about the demigod Primarchs. Guardian armour is light, and while highly superior to flak armour, still makes them oneshottable by, say, a Bolter. You need to hit them first, though, and they move so fast as to make everyone else seem like moving in slow motion. Aspect Warriors and Space Marines are about on par in combat, the speed of the Eldar matched by the resilience of the Astartes, so fights between them tend to take a long time. Orks are tough, though a bolter shot can still oneshot them as well, and a single Ork can easily kill half a dozen guardsmen if he can get in close. Their weapons are quite powerful but very very very unaccurate. Tyranids are utterly lethal, a Hormagaunt can easily eviscerate a Boy or cut down a Guardsmen squad in seconds, but the larger creatures trade that speed for strength and resilience. Tau are bad in melee, comparable to Guardsmen, though they do have very good ranged weapons. When SM and CSM fight, or Sororitas and CSM and so on, most of the damage is not done from armour penetration. Armour does little to stop blunt impacts, and while PA is fully capable of resisting sustained bolter fire, the force travels through the armour, which is why humans in PA get their bones and innards pulverised quickly by bolter fire whereas SM and CSM can take much more fire.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

The Imperium is being pushed back at key points such as where Leviathan comes, around the Eye of Terror, and various other places. Most of their borders are stable but where there are holes in the perimeter, the holes are very bad. With the rise of the Necrons, onslaught of Chaos, and invasion of the Tyranids, the Imperium is well and truly fethed.
How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

Astartes are functionally immortal. Only death in battle, or by an especially virulent Nurglitch plague (Which arguably counts as a weapon) or similar things can end their lives.

What about the Void Dragon?

Still on Mars, brooding.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

Varies. Titans can go from a few dozen meters tall to mind-boggingly massive, reaching above the clouds. An Imperator would be over a kilometer tall, I'd reckon.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

Chaos is quite Lovecraftian. A human seeing some of Chaos' symbols can cause nasty things to happen. Normal humans promptly go insane on sight from any Daemon. Sisters, Astartes, Inquisitors and other exceptional individuals can resist this.

How large are the Hive Fleets?
Huuuuuuuuge. Nids are definitely the most numerous faction. Billions of hiveships coming right for you. Their fleets are visible on the galactic map.



Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

I decided to answer my own questions, as well, and I give you an additional question.

How large do you think a Marine is?

I imagine them to be just above 9 feet, or around 2.8 meters. (Note, the CSM on the pictures below is hunched forward as well as not standing particularly straight with his legs.)

Is this accurate enough?

http://media.desura.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/1306630809544.jpg

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Is this accurate enough?

http://media.desura.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/1306630809544.jpg

Philip Sibbering has interesting theories, and I agree with some of them, but I also disagree with much of it.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
There is no true 'official' canon in 40K, as Lynata kindly pointed out.

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

Here are some things that I commonly see debating over:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

Spoiler:

Space Marines are tough cookies but they aren't all mighty supermen capable of conquering worlds on their own. They mainly operate as rapid response elite shock teams and excel at this role.

Imperial Guardsmen are very brave soldiers and can do damage but will be killed if anything gets in close quarters with them. A Lasgun can kill anything short of a vehicle or MC with enough luck.

Eldar Dire Avengers are on the level of Stormtroopers in terms of fighting ability but have much better reflexes in close quarters and much better firearms. Guardians are just Imperial Guardsmen with better shooting ability.

Tau Firewarriors are somewhere between a Stormtrooper and a Guardsmen. With good enough support they can be devastating though. On their own they will die horribly to anything.

Sisters of Battle are superb fighters that can stand up to even Chaos Space Marines in a firefight. Though in close quarters they are little better than Guardsmen with fancy armor.

Grey Knights are excellent specialist troops against Daemons and can hold their own against most other armies. Though without support they will be overrun quickly like regular Space Marines.

Tyranids are very weak individually. A gaunt can be beaten up by even regular humans that are well trained in melee fighting. It's only in overwhelming numbers that they'll prevail and they rarely aren't in overwhelming numbers. Their specialist troopers are very good at what they do. The MCs are excellent force multipliers though they are outclassed by MCs from other armies on an individual basis.

Necron warriors are tough to kill and can deal damage in terms of shooting. Though they will be creamed by dedicated assault troopers.

Chaos Space Marines are the best fighters in the galaxy. Thousands of years of near non-stop fighting, the boost from Chaos and the already potent body modifications all Astartes receive make them very good soldiers. Their only weakness is that they are very rarely completely sane so they cannot really come up with very meaningful complex plans.

Orks are tough, mean and good with a choppa. You usually need a ton of killy dakka to deal with them.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?
The Golden Throne is failing and the Imperium is losing worlds faster than they can replace them. Stalwart troopers are willing to stand the line but without any significant changes the Imperium will slowly die. Though it will take thousands of years.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?
4-500 years old. Theoretically they could be immortal but war will eventually kill them. Especially since the Veterans seems to get the most dangerous jobs. And yes, around 25% of them have been around since the HH.

What about the Void Dragon?
Baseless rumors and nothing more.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?
Titans can run the gamut from 30-200 feet tall. It depends on make and model. Spaceships are as big as the race building them wants them to be.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?
Very but it can be resisted. One must know the nature of Chaos in order to fight it.

How large are the Hive Fleets?
Huuuuuuuuuuugggeeeeeeeeee. Thousands of ships each teaming with Billions of Lifeforms.



Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

Really interesting thread, BrotherHaraldus, have an exalt.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:


How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

Tyranids, Chaos Daemons and Necrons are unstoppable. However, Chaos Gods do not want to destroy or conquer anything (they would die of starvation), Necrons will only be a real danger if they unite. Tyranids is the top predator, and it may cause the unification of the Necrons or cause some form of drastic action from the Chaos Gods.

Then we have Orks and the Imperium. Orks can stop everything, it is what they were created for. The harder you hit them, the more powerful they get. However, I think they are slightly behind the big three. Humanity is too wide spread. It is as powerful as Orks, but it suffer for one weakness: they depend on Terra, the Astronomicon and the Golden Throne.

The Eldar and the Dark Eldar are as powerful one to one as Necrons (incredibly powerful), yet there are few of them. They are a significant force though.

Tau are a minor xeno species. There are lots of them. We know that they have a big role in the future of the galaxy, but at this moment they are a drop of water in an ocean. Too few planets to be "important" in any sense. At the moment.

I would like to point out that many xeno species are described as far more powerful than the Tau, such as the Demiurg, the Hrud or the Fra´al. And the way the Imperium is spread and communications work, it is extremely possible (more like sure) that there are many incredibly powerful sentient species yet to discover. The setting is big and unexplored.

Inside the Imperium, the Imperial Guard is far more important than the rest. The Inquisition does a lot of important work too.

The Adeptus Mechanicus is as powerful as the rest of the Imperium put together.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

Catastrophic.
It is the End of Times. The Apocalypsis. There is no hope, everything is falling down.

However, the setting is a legend told to us from a distant future, or at least that is the way I see it. We know that humanity survived this. But the Imperium fell, and this age was called "the End of Times" and described as absolutely horrible.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

My opinion: a normal marine about 300-600 years. A Blood Angel about 2000 years. Not counting dreads. A marine with the help of Chaos may be immortal, or he may die then resurrect again a million times.

Chaos Space Marines trapped inside the Eye have been moving at a different time, and for many of them it has been about 100/200 years since the heresy. For others, it has been an eternity.

What about the Void Dragon?

It exists. It is one of the most powerful C´tan Stelar Gods.
After being wounded by the Eldar, it was tired and sleepy when the Emperor fought with it. Trapped in Mars, it creates around it a "technological-creativity field", so to say, which causes the abilities of the Mechanicus.

The Void Dragon has followers among the Mechanicus (so we have at least three factions inside the admech: the Cult of the Dragon, the Dark Mechanicus and those who fight besides Terra). And it will eventually awake from its dream, causing massive havoc.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

Titans: 12 - 50 meters? Depend on the Titan.
Ships: stupidly big. Kilometers long.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

Chaos corrupts everything, if given a chance. For a single person, only an unbreakable faith or an incredible will-power will be a defense.
Fighting against Daemons include hallucinations, voices in your head, developing random psy-powers and mutations and, well, being what the Imperium calls "corrupted". The Inquisition does well in killing all people who has been in contact with Daemons.

How large are the Hive Fleets?

Stupidly big. Biomass blobs the size of a planet.

Uh-Oh! Long Post Alert!

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

With this in mind, in a setting with tons of contradictory sources where we are allowed, even encouraged, to cherrypick, what is your own personal interpretation of 40K's setting?

A fun one

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

IG are up to SAS standard, but get roflstomped anyway by the horrors of the galaxy. A normal Space Marine is capable of lifting a chimera full of men out of a mudpatch, but can't do much if his guts have fallen out (unlike some BL bolter pron). An Ork boy ranges from 4'5" in height and unable to punch out an IG to about 7' and pounding marines. A normal CSM is like a normal SM, except uber cray.
A Plague Marine laughs off AT rounds, but really drags his feet when marching.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

The IOM is on the verge of being totally fethed. An empire in retreat, the arrival of the 'nids has now pushed their defences beyond their limit, and they're having one bastard of a time holding ground.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

A normal marine can maintain upwards of 500 years on his own timeline before deteriorating at a genetic level, usually resulting in a battlefield death. Augments not accounted for.
A marine from the original legions who saw the HH happen has either been blessed with unholy longevity, or has been jumping through time via the warp. Immortality comes with daemonhood only (Cult CSM are daemonic enough to qualify for this, but if their mortal form is destroyed they'll die, unlike a true daemon).

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
What about the Void Dragon?

The VD is the Omnissiah and a full C'tan, explaining the Necron's attempt at getting into Mars.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

A Warhound/Reaver titan is at the current model scale, a Warlord rides about 1 1/3 the size of a Reaver, and the titan classes above that are never seen enough to get a measurement. An Ork "titan" raanges from Warhound size, to mobile skyscraper size (with some Orky know-wotz and belief-field). Spaceships are ginormous gothic mofos.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

If I were to read aloud the true name of a Daemon Prince, your soul is damned.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
How large are the Hive Fleets?

Large enough to have the entire milky way galaxy gak itself until it's run out of clean undies.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

Ooh! Freestyle!

A subject hotly debated across the interwebs: Souls.

Every sentient creature has a soul, which resides in the warp. Should the warp be cut off, sentient beings will die. Psykers have souls so large that they can open quantum-level warp portals to allow warp energies into realspace. Given that some fluff points to Psyker and Null genes, there is some kind of link between genetics and the warp, but it is unquantifiable as yet.
Daemons can consume souls to gain power, but if they have a patron god, they must give the soul over or piss off the god in question.

There is more, but I'll leave it at that.

 Selym wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

Ooh! Freestyle!

A subject hotly debated across the interwebs: Souls.

Every sentient creature has a soul, which resides in the warp. Should the warp be cut off, sentient beings will die. Psykers have souls so large that they can open quantum-level warp portals to allow warp energies into realspace. Given that some fluff points to Psyker and Null genes, there is some kind of link between genetics and the warp, but it is unquantifiable as yet.
Daemons can consume souls to gain power, but if they have a patron god, they must give the soul over or piss off the god in question.

There is more, but I'll leave it at that.

Right!
If the Warp is isolated from reality, babies will not get a soul and be soulless abominations. And since the Chaos Gods are the Warp itself, their destruction will cause the same effect. Isolating the Warp is the Great Plan of the Necrons. Pariahs and nulls are people without a soul. Tau do not have a soul or have their souls somehow protected. Humanity becoming psykers due to evolution will eventually turn all humans into something close to gods. The Old Ones were like this.

My personal answers:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?
-For IG it heavily depends on the regiment but the "average" guardsman who survives past his first engagement will be the equivalent of a veteran modern marine.
-SM and CSM are essentially demigods in battle but are far from immortal and cannot prosecute any campaigns without significant support from local forces.
-Tau fire caste are slightly weaker physically than humans but hugely lack experience and training time compared with human counterparts (largely made up for with technology).
-Necrons largely depends on the state they are in when they wake up but in most cases their arcane science is unbeatable in any aspect.
-Eldar and D Eldar can only perform to the peak of their ability with significant forewarning and hit and run raids. A standard guardian is like a human but better in every aspect (except of course numbers).
-Tyranids Guants=Zerglings
-Orks= Thousands of super tough, super strong gorillas.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?
Depends very heavily on the local galactic situation but in general the "imperium" is merely an overarching culture that is slowly but surely crumbling. With the arrival of the 'nids its unlikely it will last much longer. The state of the golden throne and the emperor is ambiguous at best.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?
Marines age depends on their gene seed, for example blood angels tend to live longer than ultramarines. Most marines however die before this becomes an issue or leads them to fulfil non combat duties. Most Chaos marines are not 10k years old due to the effects of the warp. Those that are thousands of years old have been kept that way by the forces of chaos who dont want their favourite pawns to die of old age.

What about the Void Dragon?
A C'tan, subdued by the emperor and imprisoned under mars. Its psychic presence effected generations of martians into having an innate understanding of technology. Unknowingly worshiped as the Omnissiah.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?
Titan scales can be easily found on the web. Ship scales vary hugely from source to source but on the whole a frigate sized escort seems to be about 1.5km long.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?
Depends entirely on the mindset and psychic profile of the individual(s) being corrupted and the determination and power of the chaotic entity doing the corrupting.

How large are the Hive Fleets?
Each have massively varying sizes but a major fleet will number millions of bioships with hundreds of billions of not many trillions of individual tyranid organisms.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

How large do you think a Marine is?

I am with Lord Spartacus in this one: about 7.5 feet
http://media.desura.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/1306630809544.jpg
There is also another similar drawing by someone in the GW studio.

 da001 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Of course, those are just examples that I thought up in a few minutes. Post anything from your own interpretation!

Ooh! Freestyle!

A subject hotly debated across the interwebs: Souls.

Every sentient creature has a soul, which resides in the warp. Should the warp be cut off, sentient beings will die. Psykers have souls so large that they can open quantum-level warp portals to allow warp energies into realspace. Given that some fluff points to Psyker and Null genes, there is some kind of link between genetics and the warp, but it is unquantifiable as yet.
Daemons can consume souls to gain power, but if they have a patron god, they must give the soul over or piss off the god in question.

There is more, but I'll leave it at that.

Right!
If the Warp is isolated from reality, babies will not get a soul and be soulless abominations. And since the Chaos Gods are the Warp itself, their destruction will cause the same effect. Isolating the Warp is the Great Plan of the Necrons. Pariahs and nulls are people without a soul. Tau do not have a soul or have their souls somehow protected. Humanity becoming psykers due to evolution will eventually turn all humans into something close to gods. The Old Ones were like this.

And that is why CSM are secretly the good guys!

What a fun thread!

I'll give it a whirl:

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

The troops themselves? I think I really do see them in my mind as they are represented on the tabletop, with the exception of Marines being rather underpowered in the game, especially regarding their survivability. There really shouldn't be much that gets past Power Armour, as the Marines' low numbers otherwise don't make any sense.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

Precarious, but I don't subscribe to the "Empire in retreat" idea. The Empire is a juggernaught, counting losses in worlds instead of lives and conquering and settling said worlds at a staggering rate at least on par with their loss. It is the single most powerful political entity in the galaxy, and it can crush pretty much any foe (apart from the "Codex factions") if it puts its mind to it. However, its resources are so stretched that a single major loss, like at Armageddon or Cadia, could begin a series of events that sends the whole war machine spiralling out of control.

So in essence, everything is in the cards right now - everything could be lost tomorrow, even if the cascading into total oblivion would still take centuries to reach its end, or the Imperium might hang on barely as it does now until mankind's evolutionary step-up is completed.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

A couple of hundred years. The same goes for traitors, who just experience a different time-flow in the Eye of Terror - so they are only 10k years old "for us".

What about the Void Dragon?

Who?

Just kidding, but I judiciously ignored ALL of the Oldcron C'tan fluff. Hated it with a passion.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

Both on the whacky side of current interpretations. I just love the idea of the largest Titans walking on skyscraper legs.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

Absolutely. It corrupts all living things that have a presence in the warp and can even touch AI. That's really the only thing that makes it so dangerous to the Imperium, as the Chaos Marines and Daemons are really "just another" external foe to fight.

How large are the Hive Fleets?

Not as large as every Tyranid player seems to believe. I'd say individually they are on par with Abaddon's Black Crusades scale-wise.

How tall are Marines?

Around 2.5m max I'd wager.

I believe most of the Grim Darkness and the more outrageous claims in fluff are pure propaganda. By the imperium, by the eldar, by the tau, and maybe even the necrons.

Anyway about your questions...

How powerful are the troops of each faction really? I believe that they are as though as they are on the table-top (with boosts to vehicles of course) exceptions: Orks (they think they are tougher than they are.) Grey Knights (Actually at Pre-Ward strength, hyped by imperium to unnerve chaos.) Tyranids (Tougher than table top, but only by sear numbers with most, carnifexs can tear open tanks with ease)
and Tau (Those guns aren't THAT great, still good though.)

How bad is the Imperium's current situation? For the average civilian, not awful, similar to modern day countries, on the stand point of war, not excellent and will eventually fall, unless they can gain the assistance of the xenos in removing the threats of chaos, orks, dark eldar, and tyranids.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old? Marines vary gene seed to gene seed, averaging at 300 years alive, 225 combat able. (dreadnoughts exempt)
Chaos legionnaires age the same but have time traveled via the warp.

What about the Void Dragon? Mars REALLY needs an exterminatious, but it could be defeated with proper firepower, and It's powers are exaggerated by the necrons. (who are far less robotic than the imperium would portray them.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships? titans are slightly smaller than table top scale, (baneblade is spot-on) The spaceships can be the size of small cities, but the average craft can is only a bit a larger than an apartment complex.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually? Through raw warpyness? Not very, but it can happen. Through the promise of power, wealth, and freedom? Extremely. more so than anyone really wants to admit.

How large are the Hive Fleets? About the size of a moderate country in size, in terms of population density? Denser than New Delhi. (Nom Nom)

[Grim]Dark. Very, very, very [Grim]dark.

This is my answer to all the questions btw.

Lucarikx

I have no personal view on 40K fluff. How I look at things is based purely upon what the most consistently shown interpretation is. Whether I approve or disapprove of fluff means nothing.

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

Human soldiers range from disciplined and formidable (particularly with the use of tanks) to utter trash (conscripts and poorly led guardsmen). In such a dangerous Galaxy, imperial commanders have a tendency to throw men's lives away rather carelessly. Standard guardsmen can never go toe-to-toe with any of the other races, instead relying on superior numbers and the skill and experience of their commanders.
Tau are about the same physically as humans, perhaps a bit weaker, and prefer using their wicked technology from afar rather than up close where they're likely to get butchered almost as easily as imperial guardsmen. Tau in suits are very formidable, put out a lot of firepower and are very mobile.
Orks rely primarily on numbers and tend to die a lot, but can tear most other infantry apart in melee. Particularly nasty orks are on par with Space Marines. Smaller, runtier orks can still pose a threat.
Eldar/Dark Eldar are about the same as humans, but are much much more dexterous and capable and in better gear, preferring to utilize stealth rather than fight head on. Both factions of Eldar rely on hit-and-run attacks and individual skill, performing specific roles in battle.
Tyranids rely almost entirely on numbers but do it incredibly well. Unlike an ork infestation, while still a serious issue, the arrival of tyranid spores on a planet will precede an unstoppable invasion unless there happens to be several regiments of imperial guard nearby or a company of Space Marines.
Space Marines in fluff are incredibly powerful but rare. Some would argue that they are the greatest assembly of warriors in the Galaxy, and to me it seems that without them the Imperium would be not necessarily broken, but crippled.
Chaos Space Marines are outnumbered and less regimented than imperial Space Marines, but often much more powerful, depending on the circumstances.
Chaos Daemons are a terribly frightening foe, often driving imperial soldiers insane before killing them in a fitting and gruesome fashion. Lesser daemons come in a rainbow of personalities and ability, but are all very dangerous. Some are able to call upon psychic powers to zap stuff from afar, but most prefer melee, which they do better than any other race besides dedicated melee specialists.
Necron infantry is only rivaled by Space Marines, unless outnumbered. Standard warriors can easily withstand the small arms fire of other races and have bodies that will repair themselves nearly to the degree of the T-1000 from Terminator 2 is able to reform after taking crippling damage. Necrons are often slow and easily outmaneuvered, like zombies, but androids with insanely powerful tech. Anything that is strong enough can easily overcome most Necrons in melee, mostly due to a Necron's inability to react in time.


How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

It's been said that the Imperium is "on the brink" of collapse. There's war everywhere, it's difficult and tedious to travel and communicate large distances and the forces of the Imperium are not entirely united and infighting is common. The bureaucracy of the Imperium is seriously dysfunctional and its impossible to get a real idea of if they're "winning the war" in the grand scheme of things or not, but the theme seems to be not.
I don't think the Imperium is about to collapse and will probably go strong for another several thousand years, gradually becoming more and more fragmented. The arrival of the Tyranids, the schemes of the Dark Gods and the eventual reawakening of the Necrons are of great importance to the continued existence of the Imperium.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

It was my understanding that about 1,000 years isn't unreasonable, although most don't live that long due to dying in battle. Other people in this thread have said as low as 200-300, which is criminally low considering that Inquisitor Eisenhorn lived to about that age iirc.
Chaos Marines can easily live to be as old as the Dark Gods want them to be. Spending time in the warp means you're not in sync with the Materium's flow of time, so some Chaos Marines are probably 1k+ years and some emerged from the warp in the 41st millenium seemingly minutes after the end of the Horus Heresy. Chaos Lords are often (or at least give me the impression) of being several thousand years old, if not older, having spent an "eternity" in the warp over 10,000 years. If Chaos Marines are impressive enough, they'll be granted Daemonhood and become immortal.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:

What about the Void Dragon?

Mars REALLY needs an exterminatious, but it could be defeated with proper firepower, and It's powers are exaggerated by the necrons. (who are far less robotic than the imperium would portray them.

The Necrons have never communicated their history to humans, the only reliable accounts of the War in Heaven and the subsequent Necron vs. C'tan shenanigans are from the Eldar. Assuming the Void Dragon is not sharded (which it probably isn't), it would treat Necrons with hostility. The weapons used to shard the C'tan were so mind-bogglingly powerful that they were disassembled before going to sleep, so as to prevent lesser species from accidentally finding and using them.

The subject of the Void Dragon on Mars is one of the more ambiguous parts of 40k lore, and it's easily upon to interpretation. The 3rd ed Necron codex, and some other scraps of lore from other sources i'm unaware of, insinuates that a Star God "trapped" or "asleep" on Mars is the subject of worship of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The story of the Emperor subduing the Void Dragon I've not read myself. Apparently the presence of the Void Dragon makes Martians tech savvy.

How large are Titans?

12-50 meters. Larger, more rare classes of titans are several hundred.

How large are spaceships?

Several hundred meters to several kilometers (~25km) in length.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

Very, very few humans, only Space Marines, inquisitors and some select few guardsmen know hardly anything about Chaos. I'd say 99% of civilians are unaware Chaos Daemons exist and the other 1% are (or are about to be) cultists. This is convenient, because even by thinking about Chaos Daemons, Chaos Daemons are aware of you to some degree. Chaotic symbols etched in the armor of Chaos Space Marines has been known to make regular humans physically sick or disturbed.
I recall in an Iron Warriors novel, the Iron Warriors used a Tyranid hiveship corrupted by Chaotic paraphernalia to deploy titans. So, according to Graham McNeil, Tyranids are corruptible.

How large are the Hive Fleets?

Too many for the Imperium to fight conventionally.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

I like to take a pragmatic view of Chaos. In the stagnation and dogmatically ignorant Imperium, Chaos represents a change that is not inherently bad, but simply represents change and a threat to the establishment of the Empire. I'd love to do a Chaos warband who has been enlightened by the prospect of change, and practices such radically and heretically despicable things such as "democracy" and "research and development"
Oh no!



Another thing that I often think about is the comic view of Ork technology and the attitude that if Orks believe it it will come true. I know its funny to go "red ones go fasta", and the whole story about the Imperial agent who recovered an Ork weapon with no working parts inside it, but I don't feel that Ork psychic field actually works that way.
I acknowledge that Orks do have a field that heavily influences reality and probability around them, but when it comes down to black and white things like a gun with no working parts in it, I really feel it just comes down to Orks being too stupid to care, and a more accepting opinion of things like success and failure

Gun with no working parts?
Imperium - failure
Orks - Thats a great gun! You can bash things on the head with it. Success

Gun that will explode and kill the user the first shot
Imperium - failure
Orks - Haha! What a great joke. Success

Actually I'm making a character that is specifically built around the positive side of Tzeentch. Hope . The other is a Lord of Change and Khornate that forever chase eachother down the lord producing change and or hope and then khorne smashing in later to dstroy such things mwahahaha. Anyways, I think that the ork guns work and the only reason red goes faster is because they think it is so so they always innately build the red ones better

The whole "there is no canon" is true to a degree but taken too far. There is canon in 40k, just not very detailed canon.

No BL/GW/WD/whatever material is published that portrays the Imperium as a tolerant secular democracy where the Emperor is despised.

No writings exist of Chaos as being friendly and peace loving Emperor-fans

No writings exist as the tyranids as a shy and gentle race.

And so on. There is a loose canonicty that links all 40k stories, regardless of inconsistent details. This is "40k canon".

 Harriticus wrote:

No writings exist of Chaos as being friendly

Nurglites are depicted in good favour for this


#nocannon
/jking

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

Personally, in terms of pure combat ability, I would take the stats from Inquisitor to be the best definition of individual power. In terms of galactic presence then what we see in the background, ie, the novels and codexes is heavily skewed away from reality. By that I mean, in terms of tabletop and fiction presence the most numerous forces of the Imperium are barely covered. Those would be the PDF first and the Arbites second since they are present on every world to some extent and always form the first line of defense against rebellion and invasion. Do we see an Arbites army on the tabletop though? Nope. So we get oodles of Astartes armies even though the vast majority of humanity will never, ever, ever see one? Yep. In this context the Mechanicus are also woefully underrepresented both in fiction and on the tabletop as well as the civilian hordes that never-the-less fight in the Emperor's name.

The next faction that we never really see are the Lost and the Damned. Arguably these are the Imperium's biggest internal foe and yet all we ever get shown are CSMs!

In terms of aliens then obviously orks are the most likely race the Imperium will face. Tyranids are only just encroaching into the galaxy and so far are in the Eastern Fringe. In time they could well devour the whole galaxy but they have only really got a toe in the door so to speak. Realistically the Necrons are more omnipresent since they have worlds across the galaxy but this is mitigated by them only just waking up. Both races are uncounted legions that, so far, have a small presence and indeed, the Necrons should be hardly heard of by anyone.

Then we have the Eldar and Dark Eldar. They should have a fairly even presence across the galaxy but their presentation in the game and the fiction shows them suffering far too high a rate of attrition for me and since they are far superior to a human, their tabletop power is, like Marines, underplayed. Of course, the game has restrictions and is limited by being a D6 game but still, it doesn't represent them well.

Tau should have the least impact I would say. Their Empire is only about 100 worlds, some contested and they are limited to a tiny section of the galaxy and their current warp capabilities. There are lots of alien races in the background that should be shown more since they've been around longer, cover more of the galaxy and have better means of travel and yet we don't get to see them.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

I would say it is pretty bad for not for the obvious reasons. The Imperium's enemies are either low in numbers or lack leadership to really threaten the Imperium. The biggest threat to the Imperium is its own reactionary nature. Lack of innovation and relgious hysteria are its main enemies and the Imperium is crumbling away. The threats its faces are capitalising on that and bringing it down but even without them it will eventually reach a point similar to the Age of Strife where travel from world to world becomes rare to impossible and at that point the Imperium, as a galactic organisation, would cease to exist.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

Functionally immortal. Look at the Salamander from the Tome of Fire trilogy, I don't even think he ate or drank, he just sat in his armour for literally ten thousand years waiting for his brothers to find him and then he basically lets himself die. Of course this is not the same as saying an Astartes would be combat capable for ever, I think they would get to a point like any human where they were simply 'old' and no-longer able to fight. As for the Traitors in the Eye, time has not been consistent for them, some have only experienced a few years and even though they are attacking the Imperium in the 41st Millennium they are only a few hundred years old, the same as a lot of Astartes.

What about the Void Dragon?

I would say a portion of it is on Mars. However, my personal preference for the Necron background is that the Old Ones did not create any races. They may well have helped a few to tap their into the Warp but they did not make any races and for me, the Krork never existed! I hold to the original ork background, reiterated in part, in the current Codex, that the orks origin lies with the Brain Boyz who were suped up snotlings. Honestly, I hate the krork BS.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

I don't think that anything is wholly incorruptable. If Chaos wanted to it could corrupt anything eventually. Normally the anture of Chaos means that those who resist the most die first but I don't see that if Chaos could just hold back then it could corrupt anyone or anything. If you look at the background in RoC then even the Emperor was/is slowly being driven insane and corrupted by Chaos.

In terms of how deadly a threat is to the Imperium then I would say this threat comes more in the form of cults and human renegades. Generally I would hold to the older background that Chaos is something that 99.9% of humanity have no knowledge of. I don't see it being like WFB where most people know of Chaos but just don't speak of it, I think in 40K most people don't even know it exists, hell, on hive worlds people even believe that such notions as 'the sun' and 'outside' are myths!

My own vision of Warhammer 40,000 is less grim-dark. The Imperium of Man stretches across the galaxy from the tip of one end to the other, dominating billions of worlds, and citizens counting in the hundreds of trillions. Resources are stretched thin, and the inhabitants of the galaxy would fight horrendous hundred year wars to lay claim to them. The Imperium churns out guardsmen in the billions each and every day to fight in the name of the Imperium and the Emperor. More often than not, the Imperial Guard outnumbers their enemy and uses numbers, superior firepower, and a combination of traditional and very predictable tactics to overwhelm their enemy. The more serious enemies include the Orks, Chaos, and the Tyranids. They aren't cleansed so easily once they decide to settle a system. Technology, industry, and knowledge aren't always going backwards in relation to progress. However, progression doesn't seem to be moving forward too much either. After ten thousand years, most equipment are relatable to what they were during the Great Crusade. Agriculture, industry, and military technology has increased somewhat however. Ships travel faster in the warp and with better security than they did 10,000 years ago, and communication between neighboring star systems can be achieved easily as long as everything is going well. The Martian priesthood sends out expeditions quite often to retrieve archeological specimens and information. They would often be escorted by a regiment of guardsmen or Astartes. And if the situation is dire, hire eldar or tau pirates. The Eldar are few and far in between, with their Craftworlds numbering just over a hundred. Dark Eldar are more common however, and would raid remote locations on a constant basis. There are nearly fifty chapters of Space Marines dedicated to fending off and tracking down Dark Eldar raiders alone. The Necrons are found very rarely. But in those times when they awaken from their tombs, whole systems are known to go silent very quickly. Whenever there is undeniable evidence that Necron activity is in an area, hundreds of ships are rounded up to fight the Necron threat. The Tau are a very small fledgling Empire. Bigger than most xenos threats, the Imperium is extremely wary of them. All attempts to conquer and annihilate the Tau however have been repelled. The area around the edges of the Tau Empire have been infested with xenos, Imperial outcasts, mutants, and deserters at the turn of the 40th millenium. This group of pirates, deserters, and traitors have gathered around the Tau, viewing themselves as freedom fighters dedicated to overthrowing the Imperial regime. The Tau however are not so pleased to see so many strangers gather at their doorstep demanding help. The typical Imperial soldier is on average much more well equipped than any other faction in the Milky Way. From the one Guardsman that isn't worth anything by himself to the towering avatar of destruction that is the Space Marine, supplies are constantly brought up to the front lines in starships that can feed small cities, and orbital batteries can be called down on enemy positions upon first request. A squad of Guardsmen can hold down an entire street for an entire day with non-stop fire before they run out of ammunition. They lack in each and every field when compared to each faction in the galaxy, but it is fact that they achieve results better and more often than other races. An Ultramarine is always more well trained, stronger, faster, ferocious, and better equipped than a Black Legionnaire. He has to be, because he is expected to fight ten times his own number on any battlefield in any situation. Over all, the Imperium is winning in most of its battles, and are always pushing outwards. This was better than it's situation ten thousand years ago where it was on the verge of collapse, scrambling to survive and rebuild hectically during the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. But now, on the turn of the 41st millenium, the myriad of problems The Imperium faces such as the 13th Black Crusade, the Tau, Tyranids, constant pressure of the Orks, resources stretched to the brink of collapse and the ever increasing reports of Necron activity threaten to overwhelm the delicate balance the Imperium has treaded for ten thousand years. If a miracle doesn't happen soon, the barriers of mankind will collapse and unleash a flood of unstoppable slaughter on the worlds of man. The galaxy is a large place though, and holds many secrets that few have the privilege to know. There has been rumours, that the gods and heroes of old will awaken soon.

I have no single view of the galaxy, it is all based on the planet on which you find yourself.

If you land on Malfi, it is a Hive World of towering palaces and smoke-blackened steel canyons of industrial production, where guns outnumber the populace of billions several times over.

Another world is based on Little House on the Praire, with a devout, conservative Imperial population doing their best to meet the tithe of their Agri-World and serve the God-Emperor the best way they know how.

Other worlds are luxurious Paradise Worlds, held for the richest of the rich and the true elite of the Imperium. They are Hawaii every day, with beautiful beaches and balmy weather, and staff in the thousands trained (and, some say, genetically designed) to fill your every need and desire.

Others are frozen wastelands, where only the hardiest of miners, and their AdMech overseers, survive to scratch frozen promethium, or other resources, from the ice-pack. Death here is frequent, and often bitterly cold, either from the environment, or the things that stalk the hinterlands.


... and that is just a few examples. The Imperium, and the galaxy, is a vast and varied place.

How powerful are the troops of each faction really?

IG: The average conscript knows the basics, but not much else. Gaurdsmen have about the as a low level current day soldier, increasing from their.
SM: Very strong,, almost immposible to beat by current day standers, but not so much in the 40th millennium. Are still very strong, but not to the ridiculous amount of some of the fluff.
Eldar: Aspect warriors are some of the best fighters in existence for their equivalents, but there are not that many of them (see as there are (comparability) few elder. Better at fighting than their SM equivalents, but not as well armored or strong. Guardians (being aspect warriors at one time themselves) are better than IG, but slightly worse than SM. Phoenix lords are the best fighters in existence.
DE: Pretty much same as the eldar.
Tau: Fire Warriors are better armed and armored than IG, and have better aim, but lack close combat abilitiesand are lightly weaker from being slightly smaller. Pulse weapons will punch right through flack armor and it generally takes only one hit to kill "normal" things. Battlesuits are stronger and tougher than power armored SMs, but not as well armored as terminator amour (but they have a jet-pack, so who cares).
Orks: Your basic ork is strong, tough, good at fighting, and not particularly bright. Orks have about the same thinking power as the average human, but use a more straightforward way of thinking (A door is blocking my way. I will blow up the door. I blew my arm off, but hey, the door isn't in my way anymore).
Chaos: Often better than SM, but usually about the same.
Tyranids: Gaunts are mostly animistic (think a caveman). The bigger it is, the smarter it is.
Necrons: Tough and strong. Almost impossible to kill unless you destroy the tomb-world itself.

How bad is the Imperium's current situation?

Pretty darn bad.

How old can Marines become? Can the traitor Legionnaires really be 10K years old?

Probably about 500-750 with no intervention. Legionnaires are not that old seeing as they experence time differently in the warp, but are sill problem 2-7K.

What about the Void Dragon?

Stolen by Trazyn.

How large are Titans? How large are spaceships?

Titans are gigantic, but not skyscraper big. Large ships are about as big as a super star destroyer.

How effective at corrupting is Chaos actually?

Pretty corrupting, but not to the point were you look at a symbol and are corrupted.

How large are the Hive Fleets?

More lifeform density than than the human density of a hive world. The fleet itself comprised of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of ships depending on the size.

I could have my own views but is much nicer letting it unfold in the books.
It has established it's own esthetic so it is easy to get into the mindset of 40k.

Some rules I could list:

40k life: Picture a boot stomping on a face forever.

If it is a menial task to be done, use a survitor: robot chassis is expensive, human life is worth less.

It is easier and resource effective to perform collateral damage, surgical strikes are only used to make a statement.

If it is not human, it is to be killed in all haste, if it is human, figure out a "good death", if the person wasted their better's time, the person is to be killed in all haste.

It is a fine balance on how much a citizen should be allowed to think, just short of drooling is the target.

Allow no idle hands! If the outside of a building needs insulation from inclement weather, send those out to collect skulls from the streets and mason them in.

A good general that hears he lost 1/3 of his IG force in battle is content that he has 1/3 more supplies for the campaign.