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**Co'tor Shas**

Well than, this goes in this bin for me.

On the other hand, I could just use this to pump up how good pulse rifles are

.

**Wyzilla**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well than, this goes in this bin for me.

On the other hand, I could just use this to pump up how good pulse rifles are .

Which is just table top rules, which has nothing to do with the fluff. Especially given that IIRC pulse rifles just blow off limbs like a lasgun, while a single bolter round can outright "vaporize" somebody.

**Co'tor Shas**

Wyzilla wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well than, this goes in this bin for me.

On the other hand, I could just use this to pump up how good pulse rifles are .

Which is just table top rules, which has nothing to do with the fluff. Especially given that IIRC pulse rifles just blow off limbs like a lasgun, while a single bolter round can outright "vaporize" somebody.

No, pulse weapons are supposed to act the same as plasma weapons is the damage department, just less so. So a glance would look like burning, a direct hit would literally vaporize armour and flesh, instead of the bolters, blown to bits. And they are described (actually quite specifically) as being more powerful and longer ranged than bolters.

Although, I have only heard of bolters do damage like completely removing limbs and heads, not completely destroying the body. I geuss with enough shots it would

.

**Wyzilla**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well than, this goes in this bin for me.

On the other hand, I could just use this to pump up how good pulse rifles are .

Which is just table top rules, which has nothing to do with the fluff. Especially given that IIRC pulse rifles just blow off limbs like a lasgun, while a single bolter round can outright "vaporize" somebody.

No, pulse weapons are supposed to act the same as plasma weapons is the damage department, just less so. So a glance would look like burning, a direct hit would literally vaporize armour and flesh, instead of the bolters, blown to bits. And they are described (actually quite specifically) as being more powerful and longer ranged than bolters.

Although, I have only heard of bolters do damage like completely removing limbs and heads, not completely destroying the body. I geuss with enough shots it would .

“With a small movement, the warrior raised the barrel of his bolter and shot the Governor at point-blank range, blasting his body apart.”
Pg.600 Nemesis

“I saw one of the red-coated figures burst as a bolt from Aeska’s gun struck him.”
Pg.646 PB

“Natraj was dead before Tirtha hit the ground. Uttam’s guardian spear spat a bolt from the weapon beneath the blade and the man’s body blew apart into vaporised blood and bone shrapnel. Two of the nearest soldiers went down with the force of the explosion, but Uttam was already moving as alarm klaxons and warning bells filled the cavern with noise.”
Pg.397 OD

“'I'll never forget the noise,' he said. 'It was like a thunderstorm had suddenly sprung into existence, and our first five ranks were completely cut down, dead to a man without even the time to scream. The enemy's bolts tore limbs from bodies or simply burst men apart like wet sacks. I turned to shout something, I forget what exactly, when I felt a searing pain in the back of my head and I fell over the remains of a man who'd had his entire left side blown off. It looked like he'd exploded from the inside out.” / Tales of Heresy, p.353 - The Last Church

“Barsabbas reacted as he was drilled, pressuring them witha wide spread of automatic fire. The sudden volley of crackling bolt shells cut out in a semicircle. Rounds so heavy that even their passing shockwave haemorrhaged the brains nd organs of any target in a one-metre radius.” / Blood Gorgons, p.245 - **

I'm also looking for more as well. But the feats for bolters laughably outstrip those of tau pulse rifles. Plus there's a quote somewhere of Heavy Bolters being able to kill APC's.

**Co'tor Shas**

It is still specifically stated that pulse weapons are more powerful than bolters. There is also another very important thing, we don't know the feats of pulse weapons. Compare how many books and stories of SMs, to how many on tau. They can't outstrip pulse weapons at all, because there is nothing to compare to.

**TheCustomLime**

Aye, Pulse Rifles are described as being stronger in lore. I would think the effect they would have on a target would be similar to that of a Bolter except without as much fire. After all, they work by firing lobs of superheated gas. That would boil and pop the organs of anything it hits.

**Co'tor Shas**

Yep, like plasma, but less of it. Pulse Weapons also use a coil-weapon tech, meaning that plasma burst is traveling very fast, and a gyro-stabilizer* combined with a scope mean greater effective range right there.

*The gold thing that looks like a screw in the front. It acts a bit like a bi-pod without needing to set up, reducing jittering/wandering, and making it easier to bring to bare, move, and shoot.

**TheCustomLime**

Yep. And knowing the Tau, it has less recoil, doesn't jam as often and is easier to supply ammo far. Probably not as complex or as difficult to make...

Why am I playing Space Marines again? The Tau have all of the best gear.

**Co'tor Shas**

It's their point

. The one thing tau have not been able to do is efficiently make power-armour class armour for their basic troops. Just wait until next codex though, well get them through the power of retcon

.

**TheCustomLime**

Nah, that would make them too powerful and that means the Eldar would lose. And Phil Kelly would never stand for such a thing!

The Imperium does make better AFVs, though. Or at the very least can field a lot of good AFVs so that any technological disparity is mitigated by weight of fire.

**Wyzilla**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
It is still specifically stated that pulse weapons are more powerful than bolters. There is also another very important thing, we don't know the feats of pulse weapons. Compare how many books and stories of SMs, to how many on tau. They can't outstrip pulse weapons at all, because there is nothing to compare to.

I just checked the 6th Edition Codex. There is no mention of Pulse weapons being superior to bolters besides rules, which are purely game mechanics.

**Co'tor Shas**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Nah, that would make them too powerful and that means the Eldar would lose. And Phil Kelly would never stand for such a thing!

The Imperium does make better AFVs, though. Or at the very least can field a lot of good AFVs so that any technological disparity is mitigated by weight of fire.

Pretty much. Armoured tractors might no be as advanced, but they get the job done, and they are a lot cheaper.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyzilla wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
It is still specifically stated that pulse weapons are more powerful than bolters. There is also another very important thing, we don't know the feats of pulse weapons. Compare how many books and stories of SMs, to how many on tau. They can't outstrip pulse weapons at all, because there is nothing to compare to.

I just checked the 6th Edition Codex. There is no mention of Pulse weapons being superior to bolters besides rules, which are purely game mechanics.

Deathwatch:

Even the Fire Caste's standard issue weapon, the pulse rifle, is a marvel of technology, surpassing even the Adeptus Astartes boltgun in its destructive capability.

**Ashiraya**

I thought people considered Deathwatch something you should not go by?

**TheCustomLime**

Codex: Tau Empire sez....

"The arsenal available to Fire Warriors is formidable, with individuals carrying a pulse rifle or a pulse carbine.... Their range and hitting power outclasses the standard weapon of every race the Tau have yet encountered". (Pg. 37)

This might be referring to the Lasgun but often race=faction in 40k. Plus, that would mean the Pulse Rifle is stronger than a Gauss Flayer and a Shuriken Catapault. Both weapons which are, AFAIK, comparable to the Bolter.

**Co'tor Shas**

Ashiraya wrote:
I thought people considered Deathwatch something you should not go by?

It does tend to pump up SMs in game-play, but it's fluff is solid.

**Ashiraya**

One should always be careful with absolutes in 40K. It was not well recieved when I gave quotes of Marine Chapters being above command of everyone but the Chapter Masters, or that they are the most important defense of the Imperium.

**Wyzilla**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
I thought people considered Deathwatch something you should not go by?

It does tend to pump up SMs in game-play, but it's fluff is solid.

No, it actually tends to pump them down. Also, if I remember every single FFG book has a statement with their fluff simply being "optional" or an "opinion" and not factual.

Also, Gauss Guns laughably outstrip boltguns and can vaporize parts of tanks with single shot, or erase entire buildings when turned to the setting that puts them on a continuous steam of energy as they atomized everything they're pointed at.

**Co'tor Shas**

Well, I don't think most chapter masters are going to any Inquisitor boss them around, even if they have to technically, probably nothing less than a Lord Inquisitor, but yeah, I see what you are getting at.

**Ashiraya**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well, I don't think most chapter masters are going to any Inquisitor boss them around, even if they have to technically, probably nothing less than a Lord Inquisitor, but yeah, I see what you are getting at.

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying, but.

In a quote from the latest SM codex, it was explained that a Chapter Master can't be commanded by anyone except his fellow Chapter Masters. It did not say anything about CMs being able to command Inquisitors.

**Co'tor Shas**

Wyzilla wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
I thought people considered Deathwatch something you should not go by?

It does tend to pump up SMs in game-play, but it's fluff is solid.

No, it actually tends to pump them down. Also, if I remember every single FFG book has a statement with their fluff simply being "optional" or an "opinion" and not factual.

So, SMs caber-tossing terminator-suited Chaos warlord is pumping them down now, is it

.
And no, fluff is not "optional" The fluff for the Dark Heresy book was even written by Dan Abnett and Ben Counter.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ashiraya wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well, I don't think most chapter masters are going to any Inquisitor boss them around, even if they have to technically, probably nothing less than a Lord Inquisitor, but yeah, I see what you are getting at.

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying, but.

In a quote from the latest SM codex, it was explained that a Chapter Master can't be commanded by anyone except his fellow Chapter Masters. It did not say anything about CMs being able to command Inquisitors.

I was saying that (as I see it) a Chapter Master would not allow themselves to be commanded by anyone short of a lord inquisitor or CM.

**Ashiraya**

The Codex is rather explicit on the matter. A Chapter Master is answerable only to his fellow Chapter Masters.

**Co'tor Shas**

So some higher ranked than them, lets say, High lord of terra isn't?

**TheCustomLime**

I believe they are outside of general Imperial command but thumbing your nose at the Inquisition or the High Lord of Terra... doesn't end well.

**Co'tor Shas**

So they don't have to, but they probably will, and it's probably best for the imperium as a whole anyway.

**Ashiraya**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
So some higher ranked than them, lets say, High lord of terra isn't?

Indeed not.

If the High Lords and a Chapter Master disagree really heavily on something, of course, the HLOT may take some kind of action, but this is outside of their technical jurisdiction.

**Wyzilla**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
I thought people considered Deathwatch something you should not go by?

It does tend to pump up SMs in game-play, but it's fluff is solid.

No, it actually tends to pump them down. Also, if I remember every single FFG book has a statement with their fluff simply being "optional" or an "opinion" and not factual.

So, SMs caber-tossing terminator-suited Chaos warlord is pumping them down now, is it .
And no, fluff is not "optional" The fluff for the Dark Heresy book was even written by Dan Abnett and Ben Counter.

Astartes range from the Failbearers dying to pointy sticks to Super Saiyan Librarians who slice capital ships in half. Yes indeed they do go lower than the high end. Also, it doesn't matter who wrote something, the fame of the author does not make it any more absolute.

**Ashiraya**

I can give you a quote of five Chaos Marines killing a Guard company by ripping off the treads from their tanks and whipping the Guardsmen to death with them.

40K is a fun place.

**TheCustomLime**

Do you two keep a list of quotes proving how great Space Marines are?

**Wyzilla**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Do you two keep a list of quotes proving how great Space Marines are?

I'm from Spacebattles. There's a general thread with feats for almost all of the W40K factions for versus debates on the forum. Quite handy now that they added and index.

That reminds me, I should scan Siege of Castellax for feats.

**Ashiraya**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Do you two keep a list of quotes proving how great Space Marines are?

What Wyzilla said. It's awfully useful given how often people attack SM in various ways. Attacking back is always fun.

When some IG fan comes saying 'Look at how good my battlecannon is at killing SM! ((((((((((:' then I can just pull up a quote explaining that SM care not for your puny battlecannons.