Imperial Guard Model Substituions

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**Commander_Farsight**

Like the title says, I am looking to do some IG substitutions. Since the IG lore states that pretty much all of the warriors are from different clans etc. and I don't want to pay for GW models because, lets face it, for just army men that's a pretty steep price. So, has anyone found a good substitution that looks good, and could easily be painted and put on the appropriate base size? If you know of something or have found something, please let me know. I don't have a problem getting some bits for the weapons, and making some other little tweaks to make them look more like IG is fine.

Also. I know that I really couldn't get substitutions on this, but I am going to be fielding some Vendettas. Does anyone have any ideas on how to make some minor changes to the Valkyrie so it looks more like a Vendetta? I know that there is a FW pack that has bits to upgrade it, but its not worth around $25 for bits that are just really not noticed that much IMO.

I understand that this may sound really cheap especially since this is a relatively expensive hobby with all of these substitutions, but if you could overlook that it would really be appreciated. Thanks.

**Yonan**

Using non-GW models for IG is much better than using GW models. Cadians and Catachans are highly flawed minis sadly due to ultra heroic scale and being very old kits. Not only do they look bad, but they're horribly over priced. I've linked some good options below, but you could also look at doing something like converting Wargames Factory Samurai and Ashigaru into Japanese Imperial Guard, Beastmen into Renegade Guard and so on - you have so many choices with IG that it's an utter shame to restrict yourself to Cadian and Catachan models imo. I love the Cadian fluff, and their chest pieces... but that's about it sadly.

Vic minis has an excellent range of guard models. For example:

Dreamforge Eisenkern Stormtroopers are awesome too. It can't just be me, but seeing these two side by side... you really don't want to buy Cadians now I don't think.

Mantic Corporation troops are a great choice too.

**Snrub**

Pig Iron Productions also do a range of 28mm humans.

Storm Troopers?

Chaos Cultists?

Um... Savlar Chem dogs?

**Yipyioh**

Whoo lordy there's a lot out there. If you're looking for Praetorians, may I suggest Wargames Factory for quite honestly the cheapest-per-model standin I've found? Exactly $1 per model. Throw on some Victoria laser arms and you're good.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/webstore/war-of-empires/british-firing-line-zulu-war

Aside from those, I personally found a combo of ALL OF THE ABOVE of what has been mentioned works very well. One of my favorite units was a Close Combat Veteran squad made with the legs/torso of the Wargames Factory Samurai, Victoria Miniatures Shotgun arms, Victoria Cloaks, and Pig Iron Heavy Trooper heads. Altogether, it probably made each mini worth something like $4 or so. Only a buck more than a normal Guardsman, but now you have cloaked Shotgun Samurai with Doomguy heads. Well worth the dollar and the time.

Really, I do suggest just buying a bunch of bits from varoius 28mm sites and kitbashing everything that feels good.

If piece by piece creation isn't your thing, then I urge you to check out Hasslefree miniatures and EM-4 (Forlorn Hope). Both have excellent Sci-Fi miniatures ranges with very unique individual minis. A bit pricy at up to 4 pounds a mini, but they are great for sprinkling in between the other troopers that you make out of the cheap massed bits boxes.

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?category=miniatures
http://www.forlornhopegames.co.uk/em-4-miniatures

As for substituting Vendettas and Valks, let me tell you amigo that you quite indeed CAN for very cheap and very easily! 1:48 scale (I think) helicopters in the size range of the Apache or the Huey Iriquois are VERY acceptable; I painted a pair of those and the wingspan is within an inch of the width of the Valkyrie, and the fuselage runs around the same as the length of the Valk. Just make or buy some GW flyer bases and always let your opponent measure as if the width was at the blade tip and it's perfect. Can't say much for tourney use, but I have yet to run into someone who could argue that I had an advantage by using the Apache.

Plus, anybody who did start to have a complaint because they realized the badassery of Guardsman swinging out of Hueys with Apaches screaming overhead, as opposed to the odd-looking and bulky Vendetta. Oh, and if you do a quick run to your local RC/Hobby shops or local CRAFT shops such as Michael's and Joann's Fabric, you can often find a plethora of model helicopters near the kid's section for extremely cheap. I think the most expensive flyer I bought there was a B-17 that I used for a Marauder Bomber at our last Apoc game for $25. Most of those places have awesome coupons for stuff like 40% off, so you can wind up fielding an entire wing of Apaches or your preferred choppers for the price of a single Vendetta. Literally.

Add some Lascannons from a Space Marine Destroyer squad or some other vehicle attachment and you're good to go. Most of the upgrades for Valks/Vendettas are ripped straight from real-world helicopter armaments anyways, my Apache models always come with a nose machine gun, rocket pods, and missile racks. Say the gun is a Multilaser and you literally have the standard loadout for any variant of Valkyrie.

**Happygrunt**

You can get a bunch of IG like models for cheap from the old Mutant Chronicles: Warzone game. 80 dudes in two styles for ~$35 USD isn't bad. You do need some conversion skill for the officers and heavy weapons though.

Link to the store that sells them below.
http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/warzone-games-expansion-sets/tg2420-1-warzone-mutant-chronicles-bag-of-80-plastic-soldiers/

**Swastakowey**

Yipyioh wrote:
Whoo lordy there's a lot out there. If you're looking for Praetorians, may I suggest Wargames Factory for quite honestly the cheapest-per-model standin I've found? Exactly $1 per model. Throw on some Victoria laser arms and you're good.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/webstore/war-of-empires/british-firing-line-zulu-war

Aside from those, I personally found a combo of ALL OF THE ABOVE of what has been mentioned works very well. One of my favorite units was a Close Combat Veteran squad made with the legs/torso of the Wargames Factory Samurai, Victoria Miniatures Shotgun arms, Victoria Cloaks, and Pig Iron Heavy Trooper heads. Altogether, it probably made each mini worth something like $4 or so. Only a buck more than a normal Guardsman, but now you have cloaked Shotgun Samurai with Doomguy heads. Well worth the dollar and the time.

Really, I do suggest just buying a bunch of bits from varoius 28mm sites and kitbashing everything that feels good.

If piece by piece creation isn't your thing, then I urge you to check out Hasslefree miniatures and EM-4 (Forlorn Hope). Both have excellent Sci-Fi miniatures ranges with very unique individual minis. A bit pricy at up to 4 pounds a mini, but they are great for sprinkling in between the other troopers that you make out of the cheap massed bits boxes.

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?category=miniatures
http://www.forlornhopegames.co.uk/em-4-miniatures

As for substituting Vendettas and Valks, let me tell you amigo that you quite indeed CAN for very cheap and very easily! 1:48 scale (I think) helicopters in the size range of the Apache or the Huey Iriquois are VERY acceptable; I painted a pair of those and the wingspan is within an inch of the width of the Valkyrie, and the fuselage runs around the same as the length of the Valk. Just make or buy some GW flyer bases and always let your opponent measure as if the width was at the blade tip and it's perfect. Can't say much for tourney use, but I have yet to run into someone who could argue that I had an advantage by using the Apache.

Plus, anybody who did start to have a complaint because they realized the badassery of Guardsman swinging out of Hueys with Apaches screaming overhead, as opposed to the odd-looking and bulky Vendetta. Oh, and if you do a quick run to your local RC/Hobby shops or local CRAFT shops such as Michael's and Joann's Fabric, you can often find a plethora of model helicopters near the kid's section for extremely cheap. I think the most expensive flyer I bought there was a B-17 that I used for a Marauder Bomber at our last Apoc game for $25. Most of those places have awesome coupons for stuff like 40% off, so you can wind up fielding an entire wing of Apaches or your preferred choppers for the price of a single Vendetta. Literally.

Add some Lascannons from a Space Marine Destroyer squad or some other vehicle attachment and you're good to go. Most of the upgrades for Valks/Vendettas are ripped straight from real-world helicopter armaments anyways, my Apache models always come with a nose machine gun, rocket pods, and missile racks. Say the gun is a Multilaser and you literally have the standard loadout for any variant of Valkyrie.

First off i HIGHLY recommend Victoria miniatures. However the British firing line from war games factory (although cheap) is sub par in quality. I have 40 of them for conscripts in my army and well they are ok but not something you want for a full army. In my opinion go to Victoria miniatures and make up a regiment or get one of the sets.

**Commander_Farsight**

Wow, I didn't expect to get this much support, thanks!

So I am mainly running veterans in my army, does anyone have an suggestions for those. I will definitely check out all of your links too. I am also going to be looking for 5 really cool looking models for my Company Command Squad, ideas? Thanks for the support so far, and keep it coming!

So I just checked out the Victoria Miniatures. I would love to get them especially because they look awesome, the only drawback is that its not really saving any money

Some of the GW pieces are even less than those... I am going to check out the other options too.

**rigeld2**

The Vanguard models from Sedition Wars combined with the Mantic ones are what I'm thinking of using if/when I build an IG army.

**commissarbob**

Well you could always make a proxy army to test your army until you are happy enough with a build to then buy the models you really want later on. What I mean by this is a paper army. Paper cut outs of the soldiers, paper models of the tanks, etc. Pop them on the appropriate size discs for bases and have at it. A quick search for Paperhammer 40k will yield you with MANY results that cost nothing more than some paper and ink, a bit of glue, and a little time. I personally have no problem with someone doing this as I know that money can be rather tight and it is an expensive hobby so long as they put a little effort into it to make it at least look nice on the table.

**Paradigm**

My own IG includes the Mantic Marines and old Warzone plastics mentioned above, as well as Wargames Factory Greatcoat troopers. All nice and cheap, simple to paint, and look great. If you're out for quantity, go Warzone (nice models but quite old and can get repetitive) or WGF, if you want the best quality get Vic minis, or for the best of both worlds then look at Mantic or Dreamforge.

RE the Vendetta, get some HWTs on Ebay or a bitz seller and just add the LC where the Valk puts its guns, other than that they're identical.

**morfydd**

P-61 widowmaker by revell in 1/48th scale ..makes an excellent valkarie/vendetta..for ~25 plus some bits and converting ..for Chimera standins ..look to NEW Ray or MPC for some interesting Standins as well as good leman russ standins (note both will require some conversion to use but ehh)

**Opera**

Before you buy any non-GW models, check the scale properly. I've bought several labelled 28mm miniatures but they tower over normal guard and some are taller than space marines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yonan wrote:

Dreamforge Eisenkern Stormtroopers are awesome too. It can't just be me, but seeing these two side by side... you really don't want to buy Cadians now I don't think.

Honestly? I much prefer the look of the cadians... and the Eisenkern are too tall.

**spiralingcadaver**

Eisenkern scaled to 40k would be ideal- they're kinda' huge compared to 40k, but have realistic rather than cartoonish proportions.

**Commander_Farsight**

Opera wrote:
Before you buy any non-GW models, check the scale properly. I've bought several labelled 28mm miniatures but they tower over normal guard and some are taller than space marines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yonan wrote:

Dreamforge Eisenkern Stormtroopers are awesome too. It can't just be me, but seeing these two side by side... you really don't want to buy Cadians now I don't think.

Honestly? I much prefer the look of the cadians... and the Eisenkern are too tall.

I agree with you, they look awesome. They are also very cost effective for the number of models you get. How could I model them so they are not too tall for 40k standards? They look really cool.

I also like the British troops from the Zulu war models. They are cheap and look pretty good too. How could I model them so they have the weapons I want them to have. So I could just get the IG bits and then glue them on? Honestly, I am not trying to get super detailed with the minis, I am just looking for a cheap way to make the army, with maybe some small adjustments like the weapons. Could someone tell me the dimensions on the British soldiers? I wan't to use them, but I don't know if they are the same height as the IG. Help?

**morfydd**

They do not look to tall to be out of proportion ..they are slightly smaller than Catachans...slightly larger than old school marines but smaller than newer marines..

Automatically Appended Next Post:
and none of the cartooniness of catachans either ..(rember Cadians are not the only official Ig model) ..none of the various Ig models are currently the same size ..(Cadian, Catachan, DKoK, Vostryn, Tallaran..etc)

**Commander_Farsight**

Now would you suggest that I make them look more like IG? I was crunching some numbers and it would be $103 to get the British Soldiers, lasguns off of ebay, and then IG heads off of ebay. It would make them look like IG, but is it really necessary to do that? Could I just call it a different division of troops and that would still go along with the fluff? I kinda want to get the Lasguns just because it looks better that way because all the british troops have are little rifles... Like I said, is it necessary, or can it just be like a different kind of troop?

**Swastakowey**

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/victorian-guard-riflemen-complete-10-man-squad-resin

Check these out. Already got las guns and seargants, all IG looking already with only some conversions for some special weapons and heavy weapons. Imperial guard can be anything from club weilding simpletons to naked bomb wearing suicide men. They are whatever you want, so anything works with the fluff.

**Commander_Farsight**

They look cool, but they are getting to then be more expensive than the GW models themselves. I can get the British Soldiers for $20 (comes with 25 models) and then get the correct 25mm bases for $4 (for 10 bases). I think that thats what I am going to do for the infantry.

Now for my second question. I believe that someone already gave some suggestions, but more would be great. How can a Valkyrie be modeled so it looks more like a Vendetta? I am going to be running 5 of them so any help also on how I could make some cheaper ones out of bits etc. would be of much appreciation too. Thanks.

Also what are the dimensions on the Valkyrie? I wan't to know because of substituting an Apache helicopter for it.

**Swastakowey**

Commander_Farsight wrote:
They look cool, but they are getting to then be more expensive than the GW models themselves. I can get the British Soldiers for $20 (comes with 25 models) and then get the correct 25mm bases for $4 (for 10 bases). I think that thats what I am going to do for the infantry.

Now for my second question. I believe that someone already gave some suggestions, but more would be great. How can a Valkyrie be modeled so it looks more like a Vendetta? I am going to be running 5 of them so any help also on how I could make some cheaper ones out of bits etc. would be of much appreciation too. Thanks.

I find that interesting because for me its cheaper than GW Plus free shipping. Oh well. Personally i use a mix of both of them in my army. Good luck

**Commander_Farsight**

Yipyioh wrote:

As for substituting Vendettas and Valks, let me tell you amigo that you quite indeed CAN for very cheap and very easily! 1:48 scale (I think) helicopters in the size range of the Apache or the Huey Iriquois are VERY acceptable; I painted a pair of those and the wingspan is within an inch of the width of the Valkyrie, and the fuselage runs around the same as the length of the Valk. Just make or buy some GW flyer bases and always let your opponent measure as if the width was at the blade tip and it's perfect. Can't say much for tourney use, but I have yet to run into someone who could argue that I had an advantage by using the Apache.

Plus, anybody who did start to have a complaint because they realized the badassery of Guardsman swinging out of Hueys with Apaches screaming overhead, as opposed to the odd-looking and bulky Vendetta. Oh, and if you do a quick run to your local RC/Hobby shops or local CRAFT shops such as Michael's and Joann's Fabric, you can often find a plethora of model helicopters near the kid's section for extremely cheap. I think the most expensive flyer I bought there was a B-17 that I used for a Marauder Bomber at our last Apoc game for $25. Most of those places have awesome coupons for stuff like 40% off, so you can wind up fielding an entire wing of Apaches or your preferred choppers for the price of a single Vendetta. Literally.

Add some Lascannons from a Space Marine Destroyer squad or some other vehicle attachment and you're good to go. Most of the upgrades for Valks/Vendettas are ripped straight from real-world helicopter armaments anyways, my Apache models always come with a nose machine gun, rocket pods, and missile racks. Say the gun is a Multilaser and you literally have the standard loadout for any variant of Valkyrie.

I like this Apache. Is this acceptable? Could you also confirm if its the 1:48 scale model that is approximately the same size of the Valkyrie/Vendetta?
http://www.amazon.com/Revell-48-AH64-Apache-Helicopter/dp/B0000DEW81

**Swastakowey**

I have the model but its way thinner and a bit shorter, plus the blades are pretty big. Can work but will take lots of effort.

**sing your life**

No-one mentioned these?

There's no dearth of future frontline infantry that are as good as GW [or better] at cheaper prices.

**poda_t**

sing your life wrote:
No-one mentioned these?

There's no dearth of future frontline infantry that are as good as GW [or better] at cheaper prices.

I was about to mention this myself.

They;re reasonably cheap, though, you get what you pay for. I've actually got an army of these guys I'm currently trying to get rid of....

**sing your life**

They're perfect if you want Krieg but can't stand FW prices.

**poda_t**

sing your life wrote:
They're perfect if you want Krieg but can't stand FW prices.

absolutely not. as krieg. Steel legion: sure. Not krieg.

**hdbbstephen**

I've been thinking about non-GW Valks for a while myself, the P-61 idea is brilliant!

**Barzam**

sing your life wrote:
No-one mentioned these?

There's no dearth of future frontline infantry that are as good as GW [or better] at cheaper prices.

People like to give these figures a lot of gak for some reason. They're actually pretty nice for what they are. You get a bunch of head and weapon options plus quite a few figures for a very reasonable price. I would say the only downside to these would be that their necks need to be trimmed just a bit to fit right, you don't get nearly enough equipment pouches, and they have integrated bases. Beyond that, they're actually really nice.

**poda_t**

The integrated bases, while a nusance, if clipped off verytically are actually pretty nice: it's like the boots add height, or, if you glue them to a base, and then add basing material, the height works out just about right. etc. The reason these guys probably get flack is because the details are soft, and need "texturing" with paint to get the details to pop.

**Yonan**

Commander_Farsight wrote:
Now would you suggest that I make them look more like IG?

You don't need to make them look more like "GW" if that's what you mean. Weapon swaps would be the most that you'd need, but even then the eisenkern rifles are fine imo, you'd just want to look at GW or third party plasma/melta/etc. For Eisenkern, you could look at the Eisenkern accessory sprues if you want helmetless heads and other nice options.

**morfydd**

hdbbstephen wrote:
I've been thinking about non-GW Valks for a while myself, the P-61 idea is brilliant!

http://www.amazon.com/Revell-48-P61-Black-Widow/dp/B0000DEW8C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387405577&sr=8-1&keywords=p-61+black+widow
Its even on sale atm