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Another day, another conflagration on the background forum from one of LightKing's painful threads.

 Melissia wrote:
LightKing PMed me with this bizarre, out of the blue assertion (with no provocation form my part) about how Primarchs can't be beaten by anyone.

I responded by asserting that anyone who can land a headshot with a meltagun will kill a primarch in a single blow, just like they would kill anyone else. Firepower is, after all, the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how tough you are when you're being vaporized.

Except Vulcan, he don't care. Lorgar tanked a plasma blaster with his face. Fulgrim had his brain ventilated by a bullet.

But yes, except for Vulcan, having your head vaporized is even lethal for a Primarch.

Vulcan doesn't count because spoilers. Lorgar didn't "tank a plasma blaster with his face" so much as he was in the area of effect and managed to not die... and had to be medivacced after by Angron.

If he HAD taken the blast directly to the face, he wouldn't continue to exist.

Firepower is awesome like that.

A plasma blastgun is not that much stronger than a melta gun in the TT.

Either it was a pulsed bolt (plasma gun stats) or a maximal power hit (lascannon).

Melta still penetrates that thick primarch skull better than either blastgun modes.

As for the whole Canoness thing.

Stormtrooper > Canoness, therefore, Stormtrooper > Primarch, obviously.

 Bobthehero wrote:
A plasma blastgun is not that much stronger than a melta gun in the TT.

Either it was a pulsed bolt (plasma gun stats) or a maximal power hit (lascannon).

Melta still penetrates that thick primarch skull better than either blastgun modes.

As for the whole Canoness thing.

Stormtrooper > Canoness, therefore, Stormtrooper > Primarch, obviously.

Wrong forum, mate. This is the background forum, not the tactics forum. Gameplay stats are irrelevant to the fluff.

Plasma blaster is a Titan-killing weapon. To add to previous examples, Angron survived being buried under thousands of tons of rock and bench lifted a warhound, Guilliman survived his bridge evaporating around him, Corax tanked concentrated fire from multiple squads of Iron Warriors, it goes on and on. Oh, and Melissia, ever manipulating the text to suit your purpose, he wasn't in the "area of effect", he was the target at point-blank range.

The only way this hypothetical sister would succeed is if the Primarch was tied down for her to execute. That, or there were like 100+ sisters all with meltaguns.

Gives a mesure of its intented power at least, and there's enough references to TT stats to fling my own around.

Oh god Omegus, please don't revive this thread just as it was starting to die!

Sorry, sorry! I can't help myself, his threads are so entertaining. They inevitably turn into a maelstrom of stupid as he sucks half of the forum into his event horizon.

 Melissia wrote:
Vulcan doesn't count because spoilers. Lorgar didn't "tank a plasma blaster with his face" so much as he was in the area of effect and managed to not die... and had to be medivacced after by Angron.

If he HAD taken the blast directly to the face, he wouldn't continue to exist.

Firepower is awesome like that.

Yeah Vulkan just took half a teraton of force that killed half of everything on the planet he was on. And the round made contact with him. And he walked it off.
The KT impact that killed the dinosaurs and covered the planet in ash for 3 years was 5-10 teratons.
Melta ain't doin gak to Vulkan.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Vulcan doesn't count because spoilers. Lorgar didn't "tank a plasma blaster with his face" so much as he was in the area of effect and managed to not die... and had to be medivacced after by Angron.

If he HAD taken the blast directly to the face, he wouldn't continue to exist.

Firepower is awesome like that.

Melta ain't doin gak to Vulkan.

As reflected perfectly in his rules.
Oh by the way Melissia that argument is tragic. Just sayin...

BaconUprising wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Vulcan doesn't count because spoilers. Lorgar didn't "tank a plasma blaster with his face" so much as he was in the area of effect and managed to not die... and had to be medivacced after by Angron.

If he HAD taken the blast directly to the face, he wouldn't continue to exist.

Firepower is awesome like that.

Melta ain't doin gak to Vulkan.

As reflected perfectly in his rules.
Oh by the way Melissia that argument is tragic. Just sayin...

I'm just stopping by to check on the thread every hour. Got a bag of miniature tootsie rolls to my right.

 Melissia wrote:
Vulcan doesn't count because spoilers. Lorgar didn't "tank a plasma blaster with his face" so much as he was in the area of effect and managed to not die... and had to be medivacced after by Angron.

If he HAD taken the blast directly to the face, he wouldn't continue to exist.

Firepower is awesome like that.

You didn't read the book.

The Plasma Blast Gun was fired directly at him.

Please stop this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, holy gak, this thread grew three sizes in the time it took me to watch a movie.

To be fair, it's not like a Plasma Blastgun is the ultimate murderating thing there is. A Chapter Master with the right equipment could survive a hit from one.

What does it matter if Primarchs can be killed by ordinary weapons or not? They're mostly dead anyway.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To be fair, it's not like a Plasma Blastgun is the ultimate murderating thing there is. A Chapter Master with the right equipment could survive a hit from one.

IIRC a battle sister could survive it with the right act of faith

Right. The thing you have to remember about 40k is that setting is built around a wargame and, as such, there are ways for people to survive even the deadliest weapons. Sisters can tough it out using their faith, Guard commanders have special energy fields that'll save them if they are lucky, Daemons have their... daemon energy and Primarchs are gut it out. It's not like them being able to survive such things makes them any more special than other high ranking commanders. I don't get why these examples are constantly cited as proof of their godhood.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To be fair, it's not like a Plasma Blastgun is the ultimate murderating thing there is. A Chapter Master with the right equipment could survive a hit from one.

What does it matter if Primarchs can be killed by ordinary weapons or not? They're mostly dead anyway.

Aren't 10 out of 18 of them still alive incase GW decides to advance the "plot"?

D'oh, forgot about how the traitor primarchs mostly lived. Well, my point still stands. What does it matter whether Primarchs can survive conventional weaponry or not? It doesn't make them any more special than say a Wraithknight or a Carnifex.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

``
Aren't 10 out of 18 of them still alive incase GW decides to advance the "plot"?

10 out of 20. There are also the two Unknown Primarchs who may or may not still be alive.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

``
Aren't 10 out of 18 of them still alive incase GW decides to advance the "plot"?

10 out of 20. There are also the two Unknown Primarchs who may or may not still be alive.

Even the Primarchs that are KIA might come back with that funky Sanguinator guy with the Blood Angels. The only ones we know are dead as the dodo are Horus, Manus, and Curze.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Right. The thing you have to remember about 40k is that setting is built around a wargame and, as such, there are ways for people to survive even the deadliest weapons. Sisters can tough it out using their faith, Guard commanders have special energy fields that'll save them if they are lucky, Daemons have their... daemon energy and Primarchs are gut it out. It's not like them being able to survive such things makes them any more special than other high ranking commanders. I don't get why these examples are constantly cited as proof of their godhood.

Vulkan has 6 wounds, T7, the Blastgun would hit him at S:5, and he has a 3++.
It's not that he would survive it so much as be utterly unaffected by it.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I have never heard anywhere that women are supposed to be more technical/skilled.

Actually, they do beat men in hand-eye coordination like shooting a gun when properly trained. Adrenaline... Men produce more of it by nature - making them better hand-to-hand fighters - but it makes your hands shake when you get a large enough dose of it, like being in mortal combat. That's probaby why standard Space Marines still have only a BS4 just like IG veterans and SoB - all their targeters and autosenses can't make up for the massive doses of adrenaline they get.

So? A Wraithknight, Leman Russ battletank (Most of the time), a Chapter Master with the Shield Eternal, every AV14 vehicle (Most of the time) and other high T and high W share that distinction. Just because something is on a titan doesn't mean it's the most godly powerful weapon ever.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

``
Aren't 10 out of 18 of them still alive incase GW decides to advance the "plot"?

10 out of 20. There are also the two Unknown Primarchs who may or may not still be alive.

Even the Primarchs that are KIA might come back with that funky Sanguinator guy with the Blood Angels. The only ones we know are dead as the dodo are Horus, Manus, and Curze.

IIRC...

Aren't Rogal Dorn's skeletal fists being held in a shrine? Or this this no longer canon?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
So? A Wraithknight, Leman Russ battletank (Most of the time), a Chapter Master with the Shield Eternal, every AV14 vehicle (Most of the time) and other high T and high W share that distinction. Just because something is on a titan doesn't mean it's the most godly powerful weapon ever.

Vulkan is dramatically tougher than all of these though. And Vulkan is far less likely to receive damage from a Plasma Blastgun than any of these. And he has more wounds to top it off.

I thought he was T:7? Unless he reduces the S of a weapon by -3 or something.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I thought he was T:7? Unless he reduces the S of a weapon by -3 or something.

He halves the strength of all Plasma, Melta, Flamer, Fusion, and Volkite weapons that hit him.

Hey, that's kinda cool. But Vanquisher, Battle, Demolisher and Las cannons wound him on a 3+ or better like other High T models. My point is that the ability to survive being hit by powerful weapons and walking away isn't all that special. The setting is littered with such examples.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Hey, that's kinda cool. But Vanquisher, Battle, Demolisher and Las cannons wound him on a 3+ or better like other High T models. My point is that the ability to survive being hit by powerful weapons and walking away isn't all that special. The setting is littered with such examples.

The ability to be UNWOUNDED like 75% of the time while possessing 6 wounds and a rerollable 4+ IWND might be.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

``
Aren't 10 out of 18 of them still alive incase GW decides to advance the "plot"?

10 out of 20. There are also the two Unknown Primarchs who may or may not still be alive.

Even the Primarchs that are KIA might come back with that funky Sanguinator guy with the Blood Angels. The only ones we know are dead as the dodo are Horus, Manus, and Curze.

IIRC...

Aren't Rogal Dorn's skeletal fists being held in a shrine? Or this this no longer canon?

Used to be his skeleton, got retconned to a single fist.

My point in this little nerdy overture was that Vulkan is the single toughest thing you can field in non apocalypse 40k.