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 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
They're a good indicator of how things are played out, TT stats, that is.

We know a Hellgun will punch through Power armor and anything else under it. But it will struggle agaisnt Termi, same for most AP 3 stuff.

We know Sisters don't have special CC training, although they're probably WS 3.8, like Stormtroopers and IG vets.

We know a KFF can block most weapons, some times.

Etc

But...

That is just interpreting everything in your preferred unit/s' and/or faction/s' favour.

Not that that is wrong, but at least say so.

I mean, if a ST is WS 3.8, what stops a Mahreen from having T4.99 and W1.99?

Because they are obviously not that tough, and they are also not as tough as a crisis suit (with has the same T, Sv, but 2W).

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

I mean, if a ST is WS 3.8, what stops a Mahreen from having T4.99 and W1.99?

Nothing, it actually would make some sense.

.... this is why the game should be based on d10s, not d6.

 Psienesis wrote:
.... this is why the game should be based on d10s, not d6.

Hilariously W40K exhibits well why science on a near global whole ditched imperial for metric, because basing you numbers on ten makes everything simpler than for some godawful reason basing it off 6.

 Vaktathi wrote:
And we're assuming they can't be run over and squished...why?

Because Terminators have picked up and tossed tanks around like they were children's toys?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
And we're assuming they can't be run over and squished...why?

Because Terminators have picked up and tossed tanks around like they were children's toys?

Can you cite an example of one doing so to a Leman Russ? And are we talking literally "tossing" a tank?

Terminators with powerfists are strong, they're not "I'm gonna pick up 60 tons of tank" strong.

I love this tank tangent, and i specifically said autocannon for a reason, both Marines and ST get turned into bits from Battle Cannons (if we use the TT as an illustration). No argument there. Must i also list the other things that kill ST and not SMs, like Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannons, BRB Macro Cannons (not the ASP D flavor), krak grendaes, and kraken rounds, so that there is no confusion?

Autocannons barely qualify as a tank weapon. They're only a step over heavy bolters or multilasers really.

Furthermore, autocannons kill marines just fine.

To illustrate, autocannon are co-axial weapons on baneblades.

They're also infantry weapons in Guard squads.

A rather popular one at that, quite powerful for its price.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
And we're assuming they can't be run over and squished...why?

Because Terminators have picked up and tossed tanks around like they were children's toys?

Can you cite an example of one doing so to a Leman Russ? And are we talking literally "tossing" a tank?

Terminators with powerfists are strong, they're not "I'm gonna pick up 60 tons of tank" strong.

Hahaha.

Have no doubts. If you have to ask, it's probably happened in the Black Library.

Interesting idea about teleport termies inside tanks... I don't think it is that viable due to their size, but it has given me an idea in regards to assaulting fortresses or enemy ships...

Why don't they just teleport bombs inside of these things? They don't even have to necessarily be structurally destructive. fire bombs or virus bombs etc...

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Interesting idea about teleport termies inside tanks... I don't think it is that viable due to their size, but it has given me an idea in regards to assaulting fortresses or enemy ships...

Why don't they just teleport bombs inside of these things? They don't even have to necessarily be structurally destructive. fire bombs or virus bombs etc...

Ultimately it's because 40k is really a fantasy universe with a scifi skin. It's about armored knights and monsters masquerading as science fiction. If 40k functioned realistically, most battles would never happen, one side would obliterate the other from orbit and move on, or you'd run into the cruel reality that the SM's numbering as few as they do just would not mean anything on a galactic scale.

NUKE IT FROM ORBIT! is how it goes usually.

It's the only way to be sure.

They tried to teleport terminators into the World Machine (the necron planet-sized tomb ship) but it had disrupters.

Lysander got his rank when his captain died due to teleportation disruption caused by chaos sorcerors.

Presumably most ships have anti-teleportation methods to prevent bombs being teleported onto them as well.

I don't think they do, actually, but then again, teleportarium technology is exceedingly rare in the Imperium. I mean, it is exceedingly rare, nearly a one-in-a-trillion chance, that you will ever meet the GK, or any other faction with access to a teleportarium, or personal teleporters (which seem to have a range limit, one which ship-to-ship combat exceeds).

 Vaktathi wrote:
Can you cite an example of one doing so to a Leman Russ? And are we talking literally "tossing" a tank?

Terminators with powerfists are strong, they're not "I'm gonna pick up 60 tons of tank" strong.

A Leman Russ? Nah. A speeding Rhino was stopped and chucked by an Iron Warrior Terminator in Angel Exterminatus. Leman Russ' are twice as heavy, which means he could manage half the feat. He could easily stop it, at least, and then punch it to death with his Power Fist. Power Fists of course having brought buildings down.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

A Leman Russ? Nah. A speeding Rhino was stopped and chucked by an Iron Warrior Terminator in Angel Exterminatus. Leman Russ' are twice as heavy, which means he could manage half the feat. He could easily stop it, at least, and then punch it to death with his Power Fist. Power Fists of course having brought buildings down.

He didn’t really chuck the Rhino though. He just pushed it back with all his might.

Power fists isn’t a useful weapon against tanks, they’re more useful for braking lightly armored vehicles apart and pulp the flesh behind thick armor with raw kinetic energy, but thick tank plating? No, power fist’s lacks the necessary penetrative power to do enough damage to the machinery within a Leman Russ tank.

Besides, tank dismantling is what you have these bad boys for anyway.

A rhino is an exceptionally light vehicle, so that's really not comparable.

 Melissia wrote:
A rhino is an exceptionally light vehicle, so that's really not comparable.

I poked around Lexicanum a bit, and it does indeed say that a Rhino weighs half as much as a Leman Russ (At least if we are taking the profiles in Imperial Armour volume 2 as our cue).
Void_Dragon's scenario is not implausible.

Hrm, I'm still gonna say it's highly unlikely. We're talking about a Terminator pushing a light transport vs tossing around a heavy battle tank.

I can push a 500lb box with enough effort and move it, if it runs over me at speed it's still going to crush me though.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hrm, I'm still gonna say it's highly unlikely. We're talking about a Terminator pushing a light transport vs tossing around a heavy battle tank.

I can push a 500lb box with enough effort and move it, if it runs over me at speed it's still going to crush me though.

To be fair, you aren't wrapped in a strength-enhancing armored suit designed to work inside a plasma reactor.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hrm, I'm still gonna say it's highly unlikely. We're talking about a Terminator pushing a light transport vs tossing around a heavy battle tank.

I can push a 500lb box with enough effort and move it, if it runs over me at speed it's still going to crush me though.

To be fair, you aren't wrapped in a strength-enhancing armored suit designed to work inside a plasma reactor.

While true, I'm assuming it was such enhancement that would allow the terminator to push a 30 ton tank as opposed to just 500lbs like me

Well, if he could not only stop but actually push around a 30 ton tank, maybe he could at least stop a bigger one?

He would not really need to do much more. Once it's been stopped his buddy can take up his chainfist and turn it to schnitzel.

...How did this discussion end up with determining how much a Termie can shove a tank?

I don't know physics that well, so I could be wrong, but isn't something that weighs twice as much as something else a LOT harder than "twice as hard" to stop? Again, I could be thinking things wrong here.

 Redcruisair wrote:

He didn’t really chuck the Rhino though. He just pushed it back with all his might.

bs.

He stopped it and tossed it so hard that it proceeded to break a Wraithguard on impact.

Power fists isn’t a useful weapon against tanks, they’re more useful for braking lightly armored vehicles apart and pulp the flesh behind thick armor with raw kinetic energy, but thick tank plating? No, power fist’s lacks the necessary penetrative power to do enough damage to the machinery within a Leman Russ tank.

Based on?

Besides, tank dismantling is what you have these bad boys for anyway.

Both can break tanks, chainfists just do it even more easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
A rhino is an exceptionally light vehicle, so that's really not comparable.

It's half as light.

If he can stop and toss a rhino, he can stop the Leman Russ. And then toss it half as far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hrm, I'm still gonna say it's highly unlikely. We're talking about a Terminator pushing a light transport vs tossing around a heavy battle tank.

I can push a 500lb box with enough effort and move it, if it runs over me at speed it's still going to crush me though.

He stopped the rhino going at full speed and threw it at a Wraithguard hard enough to destroy it. He didn't just push it along the ground.

Oh, and the rhino is half as heavy as the Leman Russ, yes... But it's also twice as fast. Velocity x mass.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TiamatRoar wrote:
I don't know physics that well, so I could be wrong, but isn't something that weighs twice as much as something else a LOT harder than "twice as hard" to stop? Again, I could be thinking things wrong here.

Provided they are going the same speed, it will be about twice as difficult due to hitting you with about twice as much force.

Only rhinos go twice as fast as a Leman Russ does. It maxes out at 35 km/h apparently. That's another way of saying so slow that I have to strain myself to even drive that slow.

There'd be hardly any difference at all.

Again according to Imperial Armour, the Rhino is twice or more as fast as a LR.

Offroad/Onroad max speed is 55/70 kph for Rhino and 21/35 for Leman Russ.

On road, the impact would be equal.

Off road, the Rhino would actually have a greater impact, adding plausibility to the theory of a Termie being able to move a LR in an exceptionally rude manner.

Well, not necessarily. Speed is only half the equation here.

Force = Mass x Acceleration.

Force (N) = Mass (kg) x Acceleration (m/s2)

Is that speed in mph or kmph? Is that weight in standard tons or metric?