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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 05:15:29
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Imperial Admiral
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HiveFleetPlastic wrote:Wow, that law text is seriously creepy. It reads like it was written by someone who doesn't have any but the most grudging respect for the separation of church and state.
And it definitely does mention "numerous other monuments," though I'm not sure what those are meant to be.
Statues of Jesus, probably.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 05:17:22
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Clearly its meant to have a full statue recreation of The Last Supper
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 05:19:08
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Nah, probably the statues dedicated to Slaanesh, Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch. Can you imagine how badly a statute to so-called "Baphomet" would offend the Ruinous Powers?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 05:19:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 06:23:27
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Stormin' Stompa
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Peregrine wrote: Manchu wrote:Calling something a religion does not make it equivalent to Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. It's fine if people want to say that their religion is Satanism, Scientology, Jedi, Bieberism, Dakkatarianism, or whatever. Regardless of whether any of those things are religions, according to whoever, none of them have any meainingful bearing on any world tradition or culture.
Congratulations on demonstrating WHY we have the whole "separation of church and state" thing, so that a religious majority can't simply declare that a minority religion "isn't relevant" and deny them the privileges that they claim for themselves.
I've seen this pop up a a few time, but you can say if a religion is relevant. They're just a collection of ideas and rules, which by their nature, deeply affect the culture they are created from. You can look at age, population, cultural references and power/influence. In turn a statue, with a specific reference to a religion, put in front of a specific building could be more relevant than another religion.
The only influence I can think of that Satanists have had is on cheesey horror movies. In which case put the statue in front of a blockbuster.
Frankly though, weird statues get put up all the time. The statue in question doesn't have anything offensive on it and doesn't actually look that bad. go for it.
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Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 10:46:11
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Co'tor Shas wrote:
What? State government can not go against the constitution. That's why state governments can't restrict speech, press, assembly, right to a attorney, religious freedom, ect.
You really don't seem to understand our form of government nor the constitution. The Constitution lays out what the Federal government is allowed and not allowed to do. It wasn't until the 14th amendment that provisions on state governments were put into the constitution. Selective incorporation is a relatively new thing started in the 1920s (and continues to this day) for the most part and as the term implies, is selective. How the Supreme court has handled the 1st amendment is different than the 7th for example.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 12:20:01
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Fixture of Dakka
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Manchu wrote:Of course they do. In fact, HB1330 is being descriptive for the very reason you suggest: it seeks to establish a record of facts in line with Breyer's Van Orden opinion -- probably because its proponents cannot rely on the actual holding in Van Orden. What HB1330 does not do is provide for the placement of any further monuments and therefore no one is in violation of HB1330 for failing to consider the demon statue.
I don't care about the satanist statue. The law clearly states that the location of the monument will be in a location with numerous other monuments. FYI, there is such a location on the grounds of the capital complex but it wouldn't allow for so prominent a display. Again, laws are not needlessly descriptive in nature. Sections of laws that detail the location of something are meant to be heeded...I dare you to park next to a fire hydrant and fight the inevitable ticket by reason of, "well, the law is just a description."
I deal with state and federal law all day as part of my job and though I have some legal training, I'm not an attorney. I have never seen a law that contained provisions that were just there for the lolz. I get what your doing here but as an okie I know my state legislature and this was meant as a means to promote Christianity from the beginning.
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Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 14:11:08
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Well, that's something we don't have in common. Again, this law is not "needlessly" descriptive. The law is transparently attempting to show facts relevant to the argument that displaying the Ten Commandments is not an establishment contrary to the First Amendment. Annnnnd again, the law does not provide that any other monuments will displayed. It says that other monuments are present. Although I did go to law school, pass the bar, and practice law, one does not really need to have done or be doing any of those things to understand the words of HB1330. Or so I would think. agnosto wrote:as an okie I know my state legislature and this was meant as a means to promote Christianity from the beginning.
Yeah, that's certainly how it comes off. But that's also irrelevant to whether anyone is violating HB1330 by not considering putting up a demon statute or whether the demon statue is equivalent to display of the Ten Commandments in this case.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 14:13:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/13 16:09:55
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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CptJake wrote: Co'tor Shas wrote:
What? State government can not go against the constitution. That's why state governments can't restrict speech, press, assembly, right to a attorney, religious freedom, ect.
You really don't seem to understand our form of government nor the constitution. The Constitution lays out what the Federal government is allowed and not allowed to do. It wasn't until the 14th amendment that provisions on state governments were put into the constitution. Selective incorporation is a relatively new thing started in the 1920s (and continues to this day) for the most part and as the term implies, is selective. How the Supreme court has handled the 1st amendment is different than the 7th for example.
States can still not impinge on citizens rights. You can't have a state censoring newspapers, stopping people from peacefully (and legally) assembling, or expressing themselves. We may be talking about different things here. The problem here is that when I say constitution I am talking about specifically the bill of rights/amendments. That may be the mix up. Please post exactly what you are talking about.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 01:10:34
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Fixture of Dakka
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Manchu wrote:Well, that's something we don't have in common. Again, this law is not "needlessly" descriptive. The law is transparently attempting to show facts relevant to the argument that displaying the Ten Commandments is not an establishment contrary to the First Amendment. Annnnnd again, the law does not provide that any other monuments will displayed. It says that other monuments are present. Although I did go to law school, pass the bar, and practice law, one does not really need to have done or be doing any of those things to understand the words of HB1330. Or so I would think. agnosto wrote:as an okie I know my state legislature and this was meant as a means to promote Christianity from the beginning.
Yeah, that's certainly how it comes off. But that's also irrelevant to whether anyone is violating HB1330 by not considering putting up a demon statute or whether the demon statue is equivalent to display of the Ten Commandments in this case. Nevermind.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/14 01:15:02
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 02:12:19
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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[MOD]
Solahma
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No prob.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 08:40:28
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Agile Revenant Titan
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I wish I had a statue.
Iranna.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 14:54:13
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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Well, if you think its right to put up a religious monument at the state capital based on that fact it was a religious donation ANYONE should be able to put one up.
I would personally put forward the money for a massive statue of Odin, he got rid of all the ice giants, such a contribution to society demands tribute.
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 14:58:49
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Alexzandvar wrote:Well, if you think its right to put up a religious monument at the state capital based on that fact it was a religious donation ANYONE should be able to put one up.
I would personally put forward the money for a massive statue of Odin, he got rid of all the ice giants, such a contribution to society demands tribute.
in August I'd love a nice ice giant.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 23:54:31
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Well, we are trying to pass a law to put a "Bill of Rights" statue there as well:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14%20int/SB/SB1159%20int.pdf
So maybe we can put the Bill of Rights facing the Ten Commandments and see if some sort of paradox-vortex develops...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/14 23:56:59
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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If a sandworm-thing comes out of it, I am so riding it.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 20:30:22
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 20:31:09
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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They did it?
Well.......I am at a loss for wordds
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 21:28:40
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Check the article. That's the sculptors first-run basically, and the statue is not yet up in Oklahoma.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 21:36:27
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Brigadier General
The new Sick Man of Europe
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Dang, I want to se the finished version so bad!
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DC:90+S+G++MB++I--Pww211+D++A++/fWD390R++T(F)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 21:37:31
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Why is he holding up his fingers like that? Is he getting ready to do the Boy Scout pledge?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 23:12:22
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Hallowed Canoness
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So cool !
Yet actually not the coolest. That is the statue they should be putting up :
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/monument-god-chaos-materializes-front-oklahoma-city-restaurant-article-1.1439431
Azathoth ! Also, we need a giant one on top of the White House. And one on top of the Kaaba, in Mecca. That last one would be the ultimate cool! Automatically Appended Next Post: Kilkrazy wrote:However if you are going to allow a Christian monument for Christians, you should equally allow a giant erect penis for Shinto fertility cults.
No. Fertility implies a man and a woman. The should allow a giant erect penis along with a with a giant open vagina, with some sliding mechanism to make the vagina come down on the penis, and then up again. That would be cool!
Peregrine wrote: Manchu wrote:The reason is because Satanism has no bearing on the the sources of our concept of law and civil society.
Neither do the ten commandments. Let's look at them:
Purely religious commandments which have absolutely nothing to do with secular law:
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Good moral principles that aren't part of "our" legal system:
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not covet
Things that are part of "our" legal system:
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
So we have four explicitly religious commandments and two that are nice thoughts but not relevant to the legal system, for a total of six out of ten. And the four that do have any relevance are all basic concepts that don't really have any greater influence on our legal system than any other ancient laws (for example, this older one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu covers all of those "secular" commandments). The idea that the ten commandments are such a great influence that they must be presented alone as a monument is just laughably wrong. It's a blatant attempt to sneak Christian religious ideology around separation of church and state.
Not even close. I simply said that I do not consider Satanism to be a religion. I didn't say the government should rule on such issues.
Yes, and the point is that we have separation of church and state so that people like you don't get to decide what is and isn't a religion for anything besides your own personal opinions.
Quoted for perfect truth!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/01 23:13:08
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/01 23:26:49
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Huh. "The Pleaser" and not "The Spocker".
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/02 00:20:58
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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The softness and irregularity of the horns reminds me of Guillermo del Toro's work but looks a hell of a lot worse.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/02 00:33:35
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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cincydooley wrote:Why is he holding up his fingers like that? Is he getting ready to do the Boy Scout pledge?
Reminds me of the Polish salute, where it represents honor and fatherland
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/02 04:46:11
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Medium of Death wrote:The softness and irregularity of the horns reminds me of Guillermo del Toro's work but looks a hell of a lot worse.
I was thinking the same. All I could think was, "Doug jones would sell the gak out of that costume"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/02 11:09:41
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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How long until GW sues over IP infringement of their beastmen?
It would be awesome if its put in place and a tornado comes along the next day and takes it out. It is Oklahoma...
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/02 11:36:26
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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hmm i think that statue could use more Slayer, infact fire this designer and HIRE Slayer and it will be a quality work of art for the ages to remember.
I also believe that the 10 Commandments were really just Moses's shipping list chisled into stone and misinterpreted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/03 21:18:44
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Posts with Authority
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Your wish is granted:
(Gravelly Hill Interchange on the M6 in Birmingham, England)
The Auld Grump
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Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 11:21:33
Subject: Re:Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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heh That's awesome in more ways than the obvious funny one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 15:53:17
Subject: Satanists unveil design for statue at Oklahoma state capital
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Plummeting Black Templar Thunderhawk Pilot
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Why exactly is this statue being put up a bad thing?
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Black Templars 4000 Deathwatch 6000
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