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Hey all, thisismainly to other space wolves players but if you`ve an idea or so share it.

i`ve got two tournaments shortly and im wondering what tactics you use for flyers. idont game so often atm but this year will change that. i havent faced any flyers at all as of yet, nor even the super heavies in escalation.
both are doubles tournaments and both are 1500 pts.

I'd recommend allying in either Imperial Guard or Space Marines for their good flyers. In addition, there is a data slate allowing you take a Stormtalon/two Stormraven formation. This doesn't count as an allied detachment. So, you can have three vendettas, a Stormraven and two Stormtalons if you really, really, really, really, really hate flyers. Or two Stormravens and two Stormtalons.

As for anti-tank... Uhh, if you go with my idea then you have decent AT. I wouldn't recommend deep striking guys in, though. From personal experience as a tank heavy guard player this usually ends up very badly for the deep strikers.

i didnt know wolves could take storm ravens and storm talons?

Allies me boy! Allies! Removing built in restrictions since 2012!

Ally in C:SM to get a Stormtalon and a Stormraven. Take the Stormraven/Stormtalon (Astartes Stormwing? Forgot the name) allied formation dataslate. You now haz 2 Stormravens and 2 Stormtalons.

It's the new dataslate from Black Library, it allows you to take a Stormraven + 2 Stormtalons formation as an ally. It doesn't eat up your ally slot though. I'm not sure if the formation acts as a squadron but I believe they get straffing run USR.

They do get strafing run however I can't embark my wolves in the raven. :(

Mr HT wrote:
They do get strafing run however I can't embark my wolves in the raven. :(

Not that you'd want to.

Njals chain lightning works great as well.

It's non issue really since, no matter what, Space Wolves can never embark in a Stormraven. Even if you take SM allies.

Lol! The answer to air craft is to take air crafts!

Quadgun on an adl is decent. Flakk missile Upgrade is too expensive.

Chain lightning, or Njals tempest abilities can make flyers a little hairy, beyond that some allies like Tau (not fluffy but effective) or a ADL with the quad gun is the route to go.

hmm, the stormwing would be amusing. although it would be a massive chunk from my army taken up lol

I've got the Stormwing data slate and the models to go with it, they've just been base sprayed at the moment hoping for a revelation in the new SW codex

It's OK and they all come on in the same turn from reserves so makes a real PIA group for your opponent, the MM on the raven are also good for dealing with super heavies

it is a shame i cant have any units in the storm raven, my dreadnaught wouldbe hanging off that as my bloodclaws pour out of it onto some unfortunate soul.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd recommend allying in either Imperial Guard or Space Marines for their good flyers. In addition, there is a data slate allowing you take a Stormtalon/two Stormraven formation. This doesn't count as an allied detachment. So, you can have three vendettas, a Stormraven and two Stormtalons if you really, really, really, really, really hate flyers. Or two Stormravens and two Stormtalons.

As for anti-tank... Uhh, if you go with my idea then you have decent AT. I wouldn't recommend deep striking guys in, though. From personal experience as a tank heavy guard player this usually ends up very badly for the deep strikers.

Drop Pods with a couple melta guns inside kick butt against tanks. I don't know how it 'Ends badly' when you face them, but for 190 points you've got a practically guaranteed dead tank, and 10 guys in your enemy's base that they now have to deal with.

If you're doing a tournament and you're willing to go all-out on the wolfy cheese then 2-3 Longfang squads (each toting 5 missiles) can bring down fliers through the sheer number of shots they can collectively toss into the sky. A small squad of Grey Hunters manning a Quad Gun accompanied by a Rune Priest with Living Lightning also makes for a good objective-sitter, flyer-killer, and general long-range S7 shot-tosser. Other than that and possibly autocannon Dreadnoughts (I wouldn't recommend them unless you somehow have a huge surplus of points) the SW codex really doesn't have much in the way of anti-flier other than shooting the odd special weapon at one.

With allies more options open up. Imperial Guard is great, I think it compliments SW very well.. The Vendetta is a wonderful flyer that'll chew up other air units and also wreck big enemy things on the ground and then there are the cheap Hydra tanks dedicated to AA work. Also with IG allies a cheap unit of guardsmen could be used man a Quad Gun. As has been stated before Space Marines can get you the Stormtalon for Fast Attack and/or the Stormraven in Heavy Support. Both can make for good flyer/tank hunters. Also the Space Marines have some pretty cheap, effective anti-air vehicles for Heavy Support.

i was considering doing a guard detachment, consisting of a command squad, 20 vets with demos and shot guns, 2 vendattas and a valkryie. however funds are lacking on this front. if my friend does take tau then i may just take my drop pods and mug things with them and keep some long fangs near a ADL.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd recommend allying in either Imperial Guard or Space Marines for their good flyers. In addition, there is a data slate allowing you take a Stormtalon/two Stormraven formation. This doesn't count as an allied detachment. So, you can have three vendettas, a Stormraven and two Stormtalons if you really, really, really, really, really hate flyers. Or two Stormravens and two Stormtalons.

As for anti-tank... Uhh, if you go with my idea then you have decent AT. I wouldn't recommend deep striking guys in, though. From personal experience as a tank heavy guard player this usually ends up very badly for the deep strikers.

Drop Pods with a couple melta guns inside kick butt against tanks. I don't know how it 'Ends badly' when you face them, but for 190 points you've got a practically guaranteed dead tank, and 10 guys in your enemy's base that they now have to deal with.

The way I deploy my army is hunkered together as far back as possible surrounded by an ADL. The way it ends badly is thus: I lose a tank, sure, that happens. Then that squad gets blown off the table in a round of shooting since Imperial Guard excells at murdering MEQs.

Stormravens, though, are scary to me. They got good armor and have good AT punch.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd recommend allying in either Imperial Guard or Space Marines for their good flyers. In addition, there is a data slate allowing you take a Stormtalon/two Stormraven formation. This doesn't count as an allied detachment. So, you can have three vendettas, a Stormraven and two Stormtalons if you really, really, really, really, really hate flyers. Or two Stormravens and two Stormtalons.

As for anti-tank... Uhh, if you go with my idea then you have decent AT. I wouldn't recommend deep striking guys in, though. From personal experience as a tank heavy guard player this usually ends up very badly for the deep strikers.

Drop Pods with a couple melta guns inside kick butt against tanks. I don't know how it 'Ends badly' when you face them, but for 190 points you've got a practically guaranteed dead tank, and 10 guys in your enemy's base that they now have to deal with.

That's cute because as Guard 99% of our tanks are 150-170 points , it really isn't an even trade off . They land , hopefully kill a cheap tank and die the other players next turn as a fair amount of guard tanks carry AP3 or better . And the vast majority of tread head guard players are swimming in plasma and melta guns . Granted Guard is one example , the Tau's Hammer head is the same cost as the basic Leman Russ when it has submunitions rounds (150) . 190 really isn't worth it
Your better off taking long fangs or if you desperately want drop pods take five or six of them so there are to many targets to deal with effectively .

Really a single drop pod is a terrible idea , especially in the the mind set were everything cracks power armor

ive got 5 drop pods i use on a mostly regular basis, however ive only 750 pts for my list so im reckoning that since dave has his battlesuits that ill be objective taking/holding. i havent used my long fangs yet so it may be a good idea. my other idea for cheapness was an aegis defence line and a lone wolf manning the gun, leaving the rest of my force free to run around and kill/get butchered.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd recommend allying in either Imperial Guard or Space Marines for their good flyers. In addition, there is a data slate allowing you take a Stormtalon/two Stormraven formation. This doesn't count as an allied detachment. So, you can have three vendettas, a Stormraven and two Stormtalons if you really, really, really, really, really hate flyers. Or two Stormravens and two Stormtalons.

As for anti-tank... Uhh, if you go with my idea then you have decent AT. I wouldn't recommend deep striking guys in, though. From personal experience as a tank heavy guard player this usually ends up very badly for the deep strikers.

Drop Pods with a couple melta guns inside kick butt against tanks. I don't know how it 'Ends badly' when you face them, but for 190 points you've got a practically guaranteed dead tank, and 10 guys in your enemy's base that they now have to deal with.

That's cute because as Guard 99% of our tanks are 150-170 points , it really isn't an even trade off . They land , hopefully kill a cheap tank and die the other players next turn as a fair amount of guard tanks carry AP3 or better . And the vast majority of tread head guard players are swimming in plasma and melta guns . Granted Guard is one example , the Tau's Hammer head is the same cost as the basic Leman Russ when it has submunitions rounds (150) . 190 really isn't worth it
Your better off taking long fangs or if you desperately want drop pods take five or six of them so there are to many targets to deal with effectively .

Really a single drop pod is a terrible idea , especially in the the mind set were everything cracks power armor

I never said I only take 1. My troops section always contains as least 3 squads in pods, 5 or more once I'm in 1250+ games. So, assuming it's a 1250 game, I've destroyed somewhere between a third and half your army before you even have a chance to hit back.
Besides, it's not an issue of 'Long Fangs vs Grey Hunters.' You have to bring at least 2 squads of Grey Hunters (Or, heh, blood claws,) anyways, probably more since you'll need some scoring power. Might as well make the most of them.

You so have to keep in mind that 5/6 games are objective based and that is a much larger consideration then one would suspect at first .

And your only destroying that amount if you are superbly lucky on many variables (scatter on drop pods , only two coming in turn 1 and a few others ) for my taste there are to many variables to be relied on in such a small scale (1250ish ) where as on the upper spectrum you have to look a what your army is lacking in other areas .
Sinking almost 1k points into drop podding units is nice and all but that leaves your other bases lacking in some respects .
In my Guard army I have (about ) 500 points in Troops , 500 points in HS ,500 in FA , 250 in my HQ and 250 floating around for misc upgrades . I cover most of the bases I need when playing competitively (AA,AT.OBJ For example ) You can't sacrifice one of your bases when trying to make a well balanced list

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'd recommend allying in either Imperial Guard or Space Marines for their good flyers. In addition, there is a data slate allowing you take a Stormtalon/two Stormraven formation. This doesn't count as an allied detachment. So, you can have three vendettas, a Stormraven and two Stormtalons if you really, really, really, really, really hate flyers. Or two Stormravens and two Stormtalons.

As for anti-tank... Uhh, if you go with my idea then you have decent AT. I wouldn't recommend deep striking guys in, though. From personal experience as a tank heavy guard player this usually ends up very badly for the deep strikers.

Drop Pods with a couple melta guns inside kick butt against tanks. I don't know how it 'Ends badly' when you face them, but for 190 points you've got a practically guaranteed dead tank, and 10 guys in your enemy's base that they now have to deal with.

The way I deploy my army is hunkered together as far back as possible surrounded by an ADL. The way it ends badly is thus: I lose a tank, sure, that happens. Then that squad gets blown off the table in a round of shooting since Imperial Guard excells at murdering MEQs.

Stormravens, though, are scary to me. They got good armor and have good AT punch.

You'd get destroyed by the Pod/Artillery list I see a lot nowadays.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
You so have to keep in mind that 5/6 games are objective based and that is a much larger consideration then one would suspect at first .

And your only destroying that amount if you are superbly lucky on many variables (scatter on drop pods , only two coming in turn 1 and a few others ) for my taste there are to many variables to be relied on in such a small scale (1250ish ) where as on the upper spectrum you have to look a what your army is lacking in other areas .
Sinking almost 1k points into drop podding units is nice and all but that leaves your other bases lacking in some respects .
In my Guard army I have (about ) 500 points in Troops , 500 points in HS ,500 in FA , 250 in my HQ and 250 floating around for misc upgrades . I cover most of the bases I need when playing competitively (AA,AT.OBJ For example ) You can't sacrifice one of your bases when trying to make a well balanced list

I get 3 drop pods in with 5 squads. Unless I scatter a full 12" I'm still within melta range. I've still got enough points for Long Fangs with an Aegis Line to get me Anti-Air, and everything else can realistically be handled by the Grey Hunters. (Sadly, as has been stayed, there's little to be done beyond an Aegis to get good anti air without turning to forge world.)
Since you're behind an Aegis line, though, I can always steal your anti-air gun too.

If you are relying on me getting bad dice, you probably aren't going to do well.

im trying to stay away from pods as obv im quite limitedin 750pts, instead i may take rhinos and a razorback.

my ideas so far for my list is this:

WG battle leader
TH, SS, wolftooth necklace, saga of the hunter, and possibly a TWM then replacing the TH with a PF. he's aroundthe 150, 175 mark depending what i take from the list above.

hes accompaniedby 10 fenrisian wolves.

20 grey hunters with plasma guns, 2 rhinos

6 long fangs and a razorback, not decided on what its armed with so far.

then my last points would be either an ADL with a lonewolf as they are cheap or to concentrate on anti tank with an annihaltor. i think thats roughly 750 pts

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
You so have to keep in mind that 5/6 games are objective based and that is a much larger consideration then one would suspect at first .

And your only destroying that amount if you are superbly lucky on many variables (scatter on drop pods , only two coming in turn 1 and a few others ) for my taste there are to many variables to be relied on in such a small scale (1250ish ) where as on the upper spectrum you have to look a what your army is lacking in other areas .
Sinking almost 1k points into drop podding units is nice and all but that leaves your other bases lacking in some respects .
In my Guard army I have (about ) 500 points in Troops , 500 points in HS ,500 in FA , 250 in my HQ and 250 floating around for misc upgrades . I cover most of the bases I need when playing competitively (AA,AT.OBJ For example ) You can't sacrifice one of your bases when trying to make a well balanced list

I get 3 drop pods in with 5 squads. Unless I scatter a full 12" I'm still within melta range. I've still got enough points for Long Fangs with an Aegis Line to get me Anti-Air, and everything else can realistically be handled by the Grey Hunters. (Sadly, as has been stayed, there's little to be done beyond an Aegis to get good anti air without turning to forge world.)
Since you're behind an Aegis line, though, I can always steal your anti-air gun too.

If you are relying on me getting bad dice, you probably aren't going to do well.

No I'm relying on the fact that that unit won't make it's points back . Congrats you destroy a 55 point transport and a couple guardsmen in the explosion . That 190 point unit proceeds to get wipped from the table with the amount of Ap2 most armies can bring .

Oh you destroy my 155 point tank ? Congrats I still wipe your unit with little trouble .

Only experience I have seen drop pods being successful in is In massive numbers (guy brought 12) and it was still a close game and he destroyed every tank and IFV in my army .

I said nothing about an Ageis where are you getting that from ?

I was referring to TheCustomLine mentioning bringing an aegis.
I won't be destroying 'A 155 point tank,' though. I'll be destroying 2-3, before you get a chance to hit back. And that's assuming that you knew what I would bring and took only the cheapest tanks. A lot of Leman Russ' are more than 155.

You're also not explaining *how* you would wipe my 30 T4 3+ men without 1/3 of your army, in 1 turn. (More than 1/3 if you have any reserves, or bought any tanks more than '155 points'.)
And then, I've got another 20 guys coming in, to take another 300-400 points out of your army. Even assuming you wiped everything I brought in turn one, you will have maybe 500 points left (being generous) on the board, to my 700-900.

Of course, we can both say that our side would do this or that for months without accomplishing anything. I'd play you, except I don't live in Arizona... so it's kind of moot. I could claim that a single Grey Hunter could wipe a couple tanks a turn, with good dice. You could claim that I'll never even scratch your tanks, and that ten guardsmen should kill my entire army. It's pointless arguing either side, so I'm going to stop. (After this post, of course.)

Well on the tank discussion the bare bones LRBT is a damn good tank . S8 AP3 large blast , ordanace is good for the price you pay (150 ) when you factor in the thick armor . In my experience the only resonable way to run a LRBT in 6th is bare bones because of the snap fire making sponsons useless .
(I personally like the Conqueror and Vanquisher ) . So at 1k or 1250 points it is fairly resonable that some one would bring the cheapest tank avaliable regardless of if they knew your specific list . But I apologize to the OP I've diverted .

For SW you have possibly the best point-per-punch heavy weapons unit in the game . Abuse this , most vehicles aren't as thick skinned as the Leman Russ or Monolith . I would take two squads maxed with missile launchers . As for AA your best bet is either FW or IG allies

Waaaghpower wrote:
I was referring to TheCustomLine mentioning bringing an aegis.
I won't be destroying 'A 155 point tank,' though. I'll be destroying 2-3, before you get a chance to hit back. And that's assuming that you knew what I would bring and took only the cheapest tanks. A lot of Leman Russ' are more than 155.

You're also not explaining *how* you would wipe my 30 T4 3+ men without 1/3 of your army, in 1 turn. (More than 1/3 if you have any reserves, or bought any tanks more than '155 points'.)
And then, I've got another 20 guys coming in, to take another 300-400 points out of your army. Even assuming you wiped everything I brought in turn one, you will have maybe 500 points left (being generous) on the board, to my 700-900.

Of course, we can both say that our side would do this or that for months without accomplishing anything. I'd play you, except I don't live in Arizona... so it's kind of moot. I could claim that a single Grey Hunter could wipe a couple tanks a turn, with good dice. You could claim that I'll never even scratch your tanks, and that ten guardsmen should kill my entire army. It's pointless arguing either side, so I'm going to stop. (After this post, of course.)

I should've added the caveat "Deep striking units to take out gunlines doesn't work unless you dedicate your army to it". Admittedly to neuter my army's firepower you'd just have to roll a bit better than average on that first strike. My russes usually approach land raider costs with how I kit them out and a single loss means a steep drop in firepower. Most builds have hard counters to them and mass pod marines are one of them for tank spam armies.

Now, if you want to know how I'd eliminate 30+ t4 3+ men? Well, the nice thing about IG gunlines is that we have good firepower in close range. Mass Plasma will do some damage as will the guns of the surviving vehicles as. Also admittedly it would be an uphill battle that would end up in much higher losses for me than you even if I won it.

So, yeah, mass drop pod Space Wolves or Stormraven spam will take out tanks pretty well.

i dont like allies so I'd vote ADL with quadgun, firestorm, or the stormwing (if you need the file for the formation pm me)