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Most predictions and rumours seem to put them next after ig (March) and Orks (summer).

 kronk wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
AN ASSAULT VEHICLE THAT IS NOT A MINIMUM OF 240PTS!!!

Said every Space Marine player, ever!

True true. But if any marine army needs them most it is BA!

Dante: eternal warrior, and a points shave. His no-scatter ability has been stolen by both Belial and Farsight now. He should have some kind of edge over them making him the king of jump pack deep strikes. See ferocious charge at bottom for additional info.

Sanguinor: Needs some extreme power ups to justify his astronomical price. S5 T5 W4 Flying monstrous creature?

Mephy: either ap2 melee (smash or unique weapon,) or drop his point cost to reflect the nerfage. Also needs a way to be guaranteed to have the wings psychic power if we get some silly table to roll on.

Astorath just needs a slight point shave.

Death company are pretty good, could use FNP 4+, but their jump packs cost FIFTEEN POINTS A MODEL for some ungodly reason. fixit fixit fixit fixit fixit!

rank and file assault/tactical marines: drop cost to the standard set by dark angels and core marines codex. Vet sarge optional. Assault vet sarges may purchase hit and run USR.

Baal Pred: points drop.

Librarian: points drop to standardize with other marines' librarians.

Vehicles: give all fast vehicles jink USR.

Dreadnoughts: Currently suffering from "lightly armored vehicle in 6th edition, while still costing too much" syndrome. Needs a fix in core rules, not a codex.

Land raider: Land raiders that mishap during a deepstrike inflict d3 s10 ap1 hits on any model that is causing or partially causing the mishap. Vehicles are hit on side armor, and models closest to the center of the Land raiders prospective landing point are removed first. If, after all hits are resolved, the deep strike has become legal, the land raider arrives as normal. If not, roll on the mishap table as normal. (more of a funny addition than a serious one here.)

army-wide rules:

-all jump pack BA models gain shrouded USR after deepstrikes from dust/debris.
-red thirst improved. (FNP? fleet?)
-air to air combat: 2 part rule:
-Any Blood Angel model that deepstrikes may choose to act as though it has skyfire USR on the following shooting phase. (They're shooting it on the way down.)
-Any Blood Angel model that uses its jump pack in the assault phase may declare an assault against a flyer or FMC that follows all other normal rules for assault. Combat ends after one phase, as the BA's land back on the ground. It is impossible to have an ongoing combat in the air. FMC's hit in air to air combat must take a grounded test. If failed, the FMC is grounded as normal (including hitting the ground,) and is locked in combat with the BA models.

-----> and what I consider the biggest major fix: <----
-ferocious charge: all Blood Angel models get +1 initiative when charging, and also ignore any effects that lower or change initiative detrimentally, such as unwieldy, or enemy wargear.
(Now Dante and Astorath have good reason to bring an unwieldy axe, as long as they're the ones charging. Powerfist sarges would see the light of day again too.)

niv-mizzet wrote:

-all jump pack BA models gain shrouded USR after deepstrikes from dust/debris.


-----> and what I consider the biggest major fix: <----
-ferocious charge: all Blood Angel models get +1 initiative when charging, and also ignore any effects that lower or change initiative detrimentally, such as unwieldy, or enemy wargear.
(Now Dante and Astorath have good reason to bring an unwieldy axe, as long as they're the ones charging. Powerfist sarges would see the light of day again too.)

Man, the shroud would make it worthwhile to play BA. I hate dropping in and standing around.

And I think the +1 init is critical as well. We should be striking before tacticals.

Dante: EW, IWND, Axe Mortalis being an actual relic with unique rules, not MC Power weapon. Point reduction. Any SG in the same unit can make a Glorious Intervention for Dante.

Sanguinary Guard: WS 5 and an invulnerable save in close combat from their blade skill. Zealot/Rampage when with/near/same army as Dante. Point reduction. Come on, they are described as being the best of the best, and theyre statline reflects 1 more attack than a tactical marine... No extra skill at CC or shooting... just a terrible weapon. Keep 2 handed, Keep MC, but give it something that makes it at least a fun weapon, like Soulblaze/strikedown/blind... something we dont see all that often. 5-10 per unit would rock, max of 30 in the list. because thats all there is...

Death Company: JP point reduction. 15 pts... on a 1wo model? Maybe a point reduction on the special weapons. 10 for a power weapon, 15 for a fist, and 20 for a hammer. Rememeber they're still only 1 wound models. I think they sit correctly at their ppm now though.

Lemartes: needs the option to take a pack or not.

Astorath: Option for a JP. Lose unwieldy on the axe.

Fast rhino chassis, with the option of burning out the engine, like it was in 3rd. then you barely need extra points if at all...

For the love of all things holy... Captains need the option for artificer armor, glaive encarmines, and a deathmask! Maybe an angelus boltgun too... Seriously, I know captains aren't great, but I want to take Sepharan dammit! Make him a character upgrade to a unit! Something!

Fix the deep striking problem. Make decent of angels, similar to Drop pod assault. Any unit with JPs can be stuck in reserve. half come in on first turn. then keep the normal DOA rules of reduced scatter and reroll reserves.

+1 in on charge sounds nice.

Probably a point reduction across the board as is the normal procedure.

Red thirst: Go old school and make it a roll every turn or move towards the enemy. Something fun and new and that will have more bearing on the game and playability of the army. FNP and Fearless... one of those all my models already have, and the other I can get from a nearby cup... currently useless rule.

Black Rage: Again, go oldschool. Roll one die for every unit of infantry or bikes in the army (except DC). For every 5+ add one model to a unit of DC with BP CCW, and JP/no JP depending on the unit.

GIVE ME MORIAR THE CHOSEN!!!

Furiosos need Tear attack again. That was a cool and fitting rule. Bloodfists - Armorbane. Blood Talons - Fleshbane and Shred.

Techmarines... Independant Character... Seriously? How'd this get missed...

Lets see a Baal pattern Land Raider. This was rumored before the current codex was released, and it was a darn good idea. Twin assault cannons on the sponsons, and something cool in the front turret. Lets put this in motion.


Tycho: IC on the DC Tycho. I want him in my squads...

Mephiston: Drop the stats down a bit, give him IWND, Make him faster than hell, not as destructively strong. and rival Tigerius pychic-wise. All that and give him IC. Now hes were he should be.


Sanguinor: Why does he have a cup! Give him the chalice rules if youre going to give him a chalice. Im just saying. Point reduction and lose the cup. Maybe T5.

Honor Guard: let the Sang Novitiate take wargear like everyone else.

I agree with a lot of this, but look at the C:SM codex from 5th to 6th. The differences are not THAT huge.

niv-mizzet wrote:

-----> and what I consider the biggest major fix: <----
-ferocious charge: all Blood Angel models get +1 initiative when charging, and also ignore any effects that lower or change initiative detrimentally, such as unwieldy, or enemy wargear.
(Now Dante and Astorath have good reason to bring an unwieldy axe, as long as they're the ones charging. Powerfist sarges would see the light of day again too.)

Init 5 Thunder Hammers....? That, my friend is the definition of OP.

Jump Packs for dreadnoughts that let them move like a fast skimmer one turn per game. [edit and still charge in the assault phase like a walker]

You know you want it...

@niv-mizzet

And your whole post does seem kind of... overkill. Seriously, I don't want all that. Most of it is reasonable, but then comes something like shrouded on DS. C'mon, Stealth just might make it. Red Thirst is good as it is and FnP would be kind of lame as Priests are the heart of BA.
And simply removing the deep striking LR's would be the best option IMO.

Air to air combat seems intresting, but I doubt they'll make that kind of changes as it would affect on Flyers a lot.

Init 5 Thunder Hammers....? That, my friend is the definition of OP.

Don't let them assault then? Not that hard to do in 6th. If you can't gun them down, just assault them first and you're good.

In the current game, if an assault unit's charge isn't scary enough that it makes you consider charging them first just to lessen the bonuses they get, they aren't good enough.

And your whole post does seem kind of... overkill. Seriously, I don't want all that. Most of it is reasonable, but then comes something like shrouded on DS. C'mon, Stealth just might make it. Red thirst is good as it is...
...And simply removing the deep striking LR's would be the best option IMO.

-Overkill? You think those few changes would make the 'dex start rolling over riptides, D weapons and reroll 2+'s? Sorry, but I don't believe you.

-Shrouded is just 5+ in the open. And if you don't go in the open, then you're risking models to dangerous terrain tests. Heck, you can do this now by throwing a Jp Libby in the squad with shield of sanguinius, and I've never heard of anyone complaining about that being OP.

-Red thirst barely has a function at all thanks to priests. I'd like to see it have more influence in game.

-And as I said already, the deep striking land raider mechanic wasn't really serious. It mainly stems from comedic conversations about them mishapping, to which someone always replies: "How is the other unit NOT CRUSHED by a falling land raider?!"

yea i agree most of the problems stem from the loss of the old furious charge rule....

thing i'd like is:
1. assault orientated bikers (like chaos with the pistol+ccw)
2. point reduction (obviously)
d.co option for free jp? bloodied charge int+1?? would make them much better option with int 5 pw....
sanguinary guard firstly point drop (40 pts with no invus is ridiculous) and secondly glaives atleast being +2 strength for being 2-handed.
3. retaining some of the BA specific psychic powers would be awesome (shield mainly)
4. as for new models not to worried, we've got alot
5. and finally it would be awesome to get a "chapter tactics" type rule much like the raven guard would be perfectly inline with fluff and awesome as a codex specific rule.... maybe the Winged Deliverance and perhaps gaining red thirst giving a +1int??

but thats just my hopes, i love cc so if we get buffed i want it to be to cc not make us a faster version of a mech focused space marine team.... ie. razor spam like in 5th

niv-mizzet wrote:

Init 5 Thunder Hammers....? That, my friend is the definition of OP.

Don't let them assault then? Not that hard to do in 6th. If you can't gun them down, just assault them first and you're good.

In the current game, if an assault unit's charge isn't scary enough that it makes you consider charging them first just to lessen the bonuses they get, they aren't good enough.

And your whole post does seem kind of... overkill. Seriously, I don't want all that. Most of it is reasonable, but then comes something like shrouded on DS. C'mon, Stealth just might make it. Red thirst is good as it is...
...And simply removing the deep striking LR's would be the best option IMO.

-Overkill? You think those few changes would make the 'dex start rolling over riptides, D weapons and reroll 2+'s? Sorry, but I don't believe you.

-Shrouded is just 5+ in the open. And if you don't go in the open, then you're risking models to dangerous terrain tests. Heck, you can do this now by throwing a Jp Libby in the squad with shield of sanguinius, and I've never heard of anyone complaining about that being OP.

-Red thirst barely has a function at all thanks to priests. I'd like to see it have more influence in game.

-And as I said already, the deep striking land raider mechanic wasn't really serious. It mainly stems from comedic conversations about them mishapping, to which someone always replies: "How is the other unit NOT CRUSHED by a falling land raider?!"

I've had no problem assaulting in 6th and when DC assaults they wipe stuff out. Initiative PW's I accept but the Unwieldy USR exists for a reason. So that every unit/weapon has it's flaws.
If it has zero problems that most certainly is OP and will lead into combos like LR + Reclusiarch + minimal DC all with TH's. 12 attacks with WS5, hitting before marines, ignoring their armor and any form of FnP or multi-wounds. Oh, and re-rolls on both hits and wounds. If you're ignoring the power of this unit you are either blind or joking.
The game is about balance and one of the best examples are that if you want a weapon that ignores armor saves, you have to sacrifice something, like speed. That's the soul of the game, tactical decisions.

And adding FnP to Red Thirst would solve this problem?
Deep Striking LR is a joke and that's all it'll ever be IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 l1ttlej wrote:
yea i agree most of the problems stem from the loss of the old furious charge rule....

thing i'd like is:
1. assault orientated bikers (like chaos with the pistol+ccw)
2. point reduction (obviously)
d.co option for free jp? bloodied charge int+1?? would make them much better option with int 5 pw....
sanguinary guard firstly point drop (40 pts with no invus is ridiculous) and secondly glaives atleast being +2 strength for being 2-handed.
3. retaining some of the BA specific psychic powers would be awesome (shield mainly)
4. as for new models not to worried, we've got alot
5. and finally it would be awesome to get a "chapter tactics" type rule much like the raven guard would be perfectly inline with fluff and awesome as a codex specific rule.... maybe the Winged Deliverance and perhaps gaining red thirst giving a +1int??

but thats just my hopes, i love cc so if we get buffed i want it to be to cc not make us a faster version of a mech focused space marine team.... ie. razor spam like in 5th

Some intresting points here. Point reductions are the most predictable and will propably be the biggest single change if they continue to make 'dexes like C: Tyranids
My hope is that units will get solid JP cost (of like 50 points) for the whole squad instead of model-based. 15 pts/model. Seriously?
Other thing that is surely coming is randomized codex powers. I will weep for this, but I can't help but wonder which powers from current codex will make it and what new ones will we get?
I think the Primaris is the biggest question, but will most likely be something like Pref enemy 6" bubble on assault phase? Just my guess.
The forementioned +1 init on charge wouldn't be bad if it was related to Red Thrist. Unique, CC-orientated and not bad.

And this is my biggest dream. Someone mentioned the assault vehicle, which would be awesome!
A rhino-based AV12/11/10 3HP assault vehicle, (fast of course) with weapon system similar to RB (HB/HF/more expensive LC sponsons?) and transport capacity of 6-10 guys.
If it was anything below 180p I'd buy the crab out of that! ;D
But yeah... I fear that it'll stay as a dream.

Making the Lucius pattern Rhino an assault vehicle would be awesome along with the drop in price for DC b/c those guys are still scary good if they make CC

I think priests are one of the big advantages and don't need to change much with them (unless they want to let me have more than 3 then we are talking)

What about some kind of rule with BA tac squads where you can modify with assault focused guys similar to the BT Crusader squads??? That would be fluffy and cool I think but highly doubtful GW would change something that drastically

oh and definitely let us keep the Fast vehicles

As others have said.

Points decrease.
Combat oriented Characters that can survive a round of close combat.
Give the whole army FC and FNP. Make priest effect squads they are attached by adjusting these. (FNP on a +4, FC does X)
i would like good units that are unique to our codex and not have them stolen when the next Space marine codex comes out. You know, something to make us different.

Martel732 wrote:
I agree with a lot of this, but look at the C:SM codex from 5th to 6th. The differences are not THAT huge.

haha yeah, GW's design philosophy this edition seems to be "if it ain't broke... or well, even if it is then whatever".

I wanna see some hilarity with this dex.

Give vehicles that deep strike (specifically drop pods and land raiders) an optional upgrade, let's call it "blood shield," that projects a temporary void shield as they land, before the opponent gets to shoot. The shield lasts until the beginning of the BA player's turn unless destroyed. Shields can, of course, overlap and strengthen each other.

How about a "shield" that doubles as a 60" weapon with D6+1 S7 hits that ignore cover? You know if I asked that before the Eldar codex, everyone on this board would have said I was insane.

I would like to see BA actually be a divergent chapter and not just what they last were, marine +2. They had every unit in the SM codex save two then added several of their own. That is not divergent, that is straight up marine +.

If you want people to see them as their own chapter deserving of their own book then they need to be different, not just copy and paste of the marine book plus four pages.

jbunny wrote:
As others have said.

Points decrease.
Combat oriented Characters that can survive a round of close combat.
Give the whole army FC and FNP. Make priest effect squads they are attached by adjusting these. (FNP on a +4, FC does X)
i would like good units that are unique to our codex and not have them stolen when the next Space marine codex comes out. You know, something to make us different.

I don't think we need new special snowflake units. The old ones just need to work.

And no FnP instantly on whole army? My friend already blamed me for BA being OP (not sure what was he smoking) for getting FnP everywhere.

 soomemafia wrote:

jbunny wrote:
As others have said.

Points decrease.
Combat oriented Characters that can survive a round of close combat.
Give the whole army FC and FNP. Make priest effect squads they are attached by adjusting these. (FNP on a +4, FC does X)
i would like good units that are unique to our codex and not have them stolen when the next Space marine codex comes out. You know, something to make us different.

I don't think we need new special snowflake units. The old ones just need to work.

And no FnP instantly on whole army? My friend already blamed me for BA being OP (not sure what was he smoking) for getting FnP everywhere.

i agree we already have fnp everywhere it's a 6" sanguinary priest bubble.....

as for marines+extra.... well thats kinda exactly what the fluff says,and for me personally fluff is what i enjoy this game most for rather then giving every1 what they want regardless of whethe it's accurate to the fluff or not.... plus WE ARE still a sm chapter and so there will be overlaps but we have alot more than 2 unique units:
1. sanguinary priests
2. death company
3. death company dreads
4. sanguinary guard
5. baal preditor
6. furioso dreads
7. libby dreads
8. (ok no longer unique but when the dex was released) storm raven
plus assaut troops, fast vehicles, not to mention glaive encarments, blood talons, frag cannon

all in all i'd say 5th was a really decent codex that (for the most part) really emphasized blood angels being the assault orientated army of the sm chapters.... I just hope this carries through to 6th..

Poly Ranger wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
AN ASSAULT VEHICLE THAT IS NOT A MINIMUM OF 240PTS!!!

Said every Space Marine player, ever!

True true. But if any marine army needs them most it is BA!

Templars?

Chaos, from a modus operandi point of view, would probably need it more too. Blood Angels would actually need it the least of any assault MEQs if they're done properly, as they'll be Jump Packing into assault instead of using vehicles. Of course, that won't happen, but still.

There are three CC-marines worth mentioning.
One of them just got update.
One of them can be done as a shooting army and has the best marine troop choice out there.
One of them is concidered the worst current codex.

Which one needs it most?

I just want Moriar back so I can run a Dreadnought army.

Lucarikx

Martel732 wrote:
BA are going to suck. All the meq books in 6th fundamentally suck, and assault sucks from the base book. I can't imagine what they would actually write in this codex to make it competitive.

It comes down to surviving Xeno firepower, and you need Screamerstar or Jetseer durability to do that.

I run Daemons without the Screamerstar. My Flying daemon princes with 4d6 Heavy bolter shots do just fine against xenos! My daemon princes love a bowl of tau-flakes every morning. Better than wheaties!

 soomemafia wrote:
There are three CC-marines worth mentioning.
One of them just got update.
One of them can be done as a shooting army and has the best marine troop choice out there.
One of them is concidered the worst current codex.

Which one needs it most?

Yeah, but chronologically, BA have had the most recent codex. I'm not even that concerned anymore, because it will probably be a gak codex at this rate. None of the meq codices have been impressive in 6th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Django_Unchained wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BA are going to suck. All the meq books in 6th fundamentally suck, and assault sucks from the base book. I can't imagine what they would actually write in this codex to make it competitive.

It comes down to surviving Xeno firepower, and you need Screamerstar or Jetseer durability to do that.

I run Daemons without the Screamerstar. My Flying daemon princes with 4d6 Heavy bolter shots do just fine against xenos! My daemon princes love a bowl of tau-flakes every morning. Better than wheaties!

Marines have a decided lack of FMCs as well. I forgot the FMCs. They are better than anything the marines have. By a pretty large margin, really.

I've had no problem assaulting in 6th and when DC assaults they wipe stuff out. Initiative PW's I accept but the Unwieldy USR exists for a reason.

DC with a chaplain-type are crazy mean anyway. Like if your opponent let them in close combat with something valuable, he misplayed.
I don't see how wiping units out when you charge is different from wiping units out when you charge.

If it has zero problems that most certainly is OP and will lead into combos like LR + Reclusiarch + minimal DC all with TH's. 12 attacks with WS5, hitting before marines, ignoring their armor and any form of FnP or multi-wounds. Oh, and re-rolls on both hits and wounds. If you're ignoring the power of this unit you are either blind or joking.

They're still guys who just insta-die to krak missiles. Now they're just really expensive. Taking a LR is kind of a waste if there's only gonna be 4 guys in it.
Also, however ridiculous of a melee deathstar they are, they're still just a melee deathstar. They don't have reroll 2++ or a bunch of split targeting with twin link ignore cover. Also they CAN'T SCORE, which is a giant downside IMO.
Just shoot the guys down or charge them first.

Melee does need some serious help this edition. Ignore unwieldy on the charge isn't even enough by itself IMO. It would bring back a reason to run sergeants with fists, though, and make them somewhat challenge-capable.

 l1ttlej wrote:
ok so i been hearing rumours here and there, of possibly a BA codex release sometime this year..... this got me thinking what every1 would like to see from the new dex.. the obvious pop outs are a point decrease across the board, some useful non-unwieldly weapons for HQ ect. ect.

So as with the new 6th ed dex's everyones got a new fancy rule specifically to them and some new toys, with the new DA books they got fancy knight bike rider guys, new landspeeder & flyer, marines got dreadnought/terminator clunky guys, some boringish tanks and a few special rules for each chapter..

so for blood angels special codex specific rule?? (like marines have the "chapter tactics")
possibly new unit/models? (very hopeful here, i know we got alotta fancy stuff just a while ago but what the hell)
fancy new relic weapons?
characters maybe?

lemme know what ya think....

Dante gets Eternal Warrior and points being fixed along with bringing assault back into 40K. This shooty direction is just boring and stupid now :/ That's my 2 cents.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

 l1ttlej wrote:
ok so i been hearing rumours here and there, of possibly a BA codex release sometime this year..... this got me thinking what every1 would like to see from the new dex.. the obvious pop outs are a point decrease across the board, some useful non-unwieldly weapons for HQ ect. ect.

So as with the new 6th ed dex's everyones got a new fancy rule specifically to them and some new toys, with the new DA books they got fancy knight bike rider guys, new landspeeder & flyer, marines got dreadnought/terminator clunky guys, some boringish tanks and a few special rules for each chapter..

so for blood angels special codex specific rule?? (like marines have the "chapter tactics")
possibly new unit/models? (very hopeful here, i know we got alotta fancy stuff just a while ago but what the hell)
fancy new relic weapons?
characters maybe?

lemme know what ya think....

Dante gets Eternal Warrior and points being fixed along with bringing assault back into 40K. This shooty direction is just boring and stupid now :/ That's my 2 cents.

agreed!! shooting really does bore me, i also play iron hands & chaos from time to time, mainly shooting based. nice enough to pass time playing with some awesome new 6th ed rules and relic goodies but all in all i enjoy a BA game everytime i field an army, even if they are horribly expensive...

Things I think BA have a realistic chance of getting.

1- Point reductions of Marines, Libby's and Wargear to DA/CSM levels. (14pt tacticals, 17 pt ASMs with jump packs, 3 pt jump pack upgrades for VV's, DeathCo).

2- Same special/heavy weapon allotments as DA/CSM squads. (special or heavy in a 5 man tac, 2 specials in a 5 man ASM, five specials in a cmd for lib, chap as well as captain).

3- Include wargear options from 5ed BA codex at DA/CSM costs. (Storm Shield's for ASM sgts, MG's for ASM in addition to flamers).

4- Drop Sanguinary Guard point cost down to 25 pts.

Things I'd like to see them get, that should improve competitiveness, and bring them in line with 6ed/fluff.

5- Add the RAGE USR to Black Rage/Red Thirst.

6- DoA allows d6 scatter as before, but also allows DoA units to deploy from reserve like the Deathwing Assault rule.

7- DoA allows JP troops to use JP in the movement AND assault phase like the RG chapter traits.

I could see a lot of dual MG toting ASM squads dropping in on turn whatever you choose with VV's and HG, SP's spreading rage. Diviination Libby's denying cover. Not sure if it'd be better than DA/CSM but it'd be fun.

Things I would love to see but know they won't.

8- Make DeathCo dreads MC's with Black Rage/Red Thirst and IWND.

I could see a lot of dual MG toting ASM squads dropping in on turn whatever you choose with VV's and HG, SP's spreading rage. Diviination Libby's denying cover. Not sure if it'd be better than DA/CSM but it'd be fun.

Or lines of 5 dual plasma RAS in razorbacks , supported by SR and fragiosos.