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A common load out is the CSM Lord with a PF, LC and BboS.
I really hope I'm missing something but a Lord has a bolt pistol and a ccw, he swaps those out for the PF and LC but, the BboS also requires the user to swap an existing weapon for its use.

Am I cuckoo?

I think most people would drop the PF and take the artefact instead.

To your point, yes, you are limited to swapping wargear for weapons unless the item has a specific rule stating it doesn't actually replace the weapon. For some artefacts, this is the case.

People are trying to make out constantly that 2 weapons and the brand or the brand and a daemon weapon are legal. You're not crazy, you're just faced with people that either want a fluffy HQ or desperately want a broken lord.

Well regarding the daemon weapon and the brand, I can see why that would be an issue depending on how you take the way it's worded. But taking 3 weapons, needing 3 weapon swaps where there are only two to swap in the first place... :s

Does the lord come with grenades? Those are technically weapons (but I don't think GW intended for them to be swappable).

 Happyjew wrote:
Does the lord come with grenades? Those are technically weapons (but I don't think GW intended for them to be swappable).

He does come with grenades.

Replacing Kraks with a Pfist seems reasonable.

 Happyjew wrote:
Does the lord come with grenades? Those are technically weapons (but I don't think GW intended for them to be swappable).

I'd call bs on that one tbh.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Does the lord come with grenades? Those are technically weapons (but I don't think GW intended for them to be swappable).

I'd call bs on that one tbh.

It is BS, and certainly not RAI; but it is technically RAW

I still find stupid to put a PF on a Init5 Char, but thats maybe just me...

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I still find stupid to put a PF on a Init5 Char, but thats maybe just me...

Otherwise you have no response to 2+ saves. If you want to chop terminators you need to drop the initiative.

 Happyjew wrote:
Does the lord come with grenades? Those are technically weapons (but I don't think GW intended for them to be swappable).

Grenades, while listed in the weapons chapter of the BRB, are not weapons as far as the codex is concerned. In the codex they are not listed as weapons but are listed in the Special Issue Wargear section.

Some grenades are simply listed in the codex as: 'check the basic rule book,' where they are then located under the heading of Weapons.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
People are trying to make out constantly that 2 weapons and the brand or the brand and a daemon weapon are legal. You're not crazy, you're just faced with people that either want a fluffy HQ or desperately want a broken lord.

Broken Lord? Really?

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I still find stupid to put a PF on a Init5 Char, but thats maybe just me...

Otherwise you have no response to 2+ saves. If you want to chop terminators you need to drop the initiative.

Axe of Blind Fury...best AP2 response.

Plenty of response to those pesky 2+ saves, ask my weekly Deathwing adversary, His termies never had the chance to last enough to land a hit since the 5 last games we've played.

I'm even considering to give a more mundane weapon to the lord so that the guy doesn't become disgusted with the game and his army..., na just kiddin i'm an evil Chaos whorshipper, that enjoys loyal lapdogs tears.

To me, I want the grenades. Those assaulting spawn need them in the Juggerlord.

If you give him a bike, that also gives him a twin-linked bolter that he can swap for the brand. I've done that before.

Spellbound,
There has been some past debates if that is legal, mostly centered around what classifies as 'his' weapon when it comes to the swap.

Perhaps but it's RAW legal.

A lord with grenades charging with spawn does not give them grenades though does it? I thought the rule had to specifically say it does like the harlequin shadow seer.

 Spellbound wrote:
Perhaps but it's RAW legal.

Not many would agree.

 Spellbound wrote:
Perhaps but it's RAW legal.

Is the bike armed with the twin-linked bolter or is it the lord? RAW it's the bike and that's how a lot of people read it.

So he can't shoot the twin-linked bolter in the shooting phase, because in the shooting phase a model can shoot any weapon it's armed with - but he's not armed with a twin-linked bolter, the bike is?

He also can't fire it in overwatch, because a model is only able to shoot a weapon it's equipped with during overwatch, and it's the bike that's armed with the twin-linked bolter and not the chaos lord?

Seems a bit of a stretch.

It is but you're the one making the stretch/ not knowing the rules.

Pg 45 says that the weapons are on the bike and can be fired by the rider. So yes the bike is equipped with the weapon not the rider.

I think if you equip the character with a bike, it comes with those things. I see no issue with the rules. He has a twin-linked bolter, just like he has T5 and hammer of wrath. Things the bike gives him.

Are you saying, also, that if he rolls the chaos boon that gives one ranged weapon +1 strength he can't put it on the bike's twin-linked bolter, because he actually doesn't have the weapon to give it a bonus?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For that matter can I use that boon to make my krak grenade S7 or my frag grenade S4?

Yes the bike comes with the weapons and gives extra rules.... what you're missing is any allowance to exchange weapons on the bike. There is allowance to fire the guns on the bike not swap them out.

Chaos bikers have explicit permission to swap out the twinlinked guns, the wargear entry for the bike doesn't give permission for exchange.

Of course the Biker Lord can exchange the twinlinked bolter for a Burning Brand, or combi-melta, or any other ranged weapon he can buy. The model is armed with the twinlinked bolter once the bike is purchased. That can be swapped.

I don't think the lord needs explicit permission because he has a blanket allowance for customization from the wargear list. Two bikers get explicit allowance because the other 1-8 bikers DON'T get that option.

Think about the champion, for instance, of the unit. Are you saying that the aspiring champion can't swap his bike's bolters for a combi-weapon, and has to replace his bolt pistol with it, meaning while all his biker buddies get +1a for two close combat weapons, he loses his?

Plus I think the biker's entry mentions that they are armed with a twin-linked bolter as one of their weapons, no?

I'm saying you've got no permission to swap out the different parts of a combi-weapon. Similarly you don't have permission to sway out the parts of another piece of wargear, namely the bike.

I am saying that you have no permission to swap out the weapons on the bike in the bike squad beyond the 3 options that it lists. The bikers are listed as having a bike. Do you own the codex as you sound like you're fishing for their wargear list?

The MODEL has permission to purchase a swap for a weapon to get either the Burning Brand or combi-melta, and the purchase of a bike grants another weapon (the twinlinked bolter). The bike is just part of the MODEL. The MODEL, not a piece of the model, gets to exchange a weapon for a weapon. The MODEL exchanges A WEAPON for what it purchases.
That's what it says in Codex CSM, the MODEL, not the dude and whatever is on his body proper.

Pretty damn straight forward.

Pretty damn making stuff up there. The model exchanges a weapon, is part of a combi-weapon a weapon? Is a bike a weapon? Just because the bike has a gun doesn't make it a valid option for replacement.

Why do you get to pull the parts out of a piece of wargear and trade them off? You've got to provide some rules here.

So you ar esaying a twin-linked bolter isnt a weapon? Do you have any rules to back up that assertion?

Note that your combi-weapon strawman is just that. A combibolter is a singular weapon with two firing modes, not two weapons - so you cant swap part of that. I dont see how you can claim the same is true abotu a bike with the very-much-a-weapon twin-linked bolter.