Your thoughts on new Tyranids Codex?

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**A GumyBear**

I would return my dex had I bought one since it sold out at my GW at my FLGS, however I just checked back in yesterday at my FLGS, to pick up some reaper models for count as slaanesh daemon princes, only to find that almost all the books were back in stock (there was I think 1 book missing) when I asked if they already restocked that fast he reponded quickly with "no they all got returned and I'm not suprised" despite the fact that on saturday they won a RTT at that same FLGS (mainly due to bad matchups though since he went up against GK/IG with relatively no AA, ork BW spam with sally allies, again almost no AA in that list, and the final matchup was GK with only one SR and a psyfleman dread, I'm not sure how he won against the GK player but I could see how he did it and took 1st despite not really facing any hardcore competitive lists like tau/eldar/taudar/eldau)

**Tamereth**

I spent the weekend reading the dex, i really don't get the design philosophy behind it.
Tyranids are meant to be the ultimate close combat army, the changes made in 6th edition of the game favour shooting over CC, and Nids suffered for this.
So why does this codex nerf CC so much. Some units lost stats, others lost abilities, some units have disapeared.
To make up for this we have new units which are "meh" and some units got points drops, but options became more expensive.
It all looks like a push to get everyone to field ever larger units of basic troops, meaning buying more models, which for some reason are direct order only now.
I can't help but think a marketing manager wrote the book.
Luckily i read a friends copy of the codex, so I won't waste my money buying it, and my small Nids force will remain in a display cabinet, It's not worth spending the couple of hundred pounds needed to flesh it out into a usable force.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

wuestenfux wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
Just noticed something today; Hive Guard, a unit described as a "gun-beast", has a better weapon skill than ballistic skill. This baffles me.

This is evolution. It appears that some units improve, some gain factors (Ymgarl) from other units.

I don't think your quote matches your text. Either that, or you have a worse than average understanding of the word "Evolution" (Hint, there is no selective pressures forcing a cheetah to slow down).

**chaos0xomega**

DarthDiggler wrote:

Flyrants own daemon princes and even most of the Greater Daemons. They fly up to them and put them in shadows reach, then hit them with psychic scream so they test on leadership 6 or hit them with a str 10 warp lance to instant kill them. You still have 12 str 6 shots to get into them all for a Flyrant who costs 70-120pts less than the Daemon it is attacking.

Don't forget about the effects of psychic scream on lesser daemons. Daemons being leadership 7 base, then reduced to 4 by shadows in the warp, and you're looking at causing an average of 5 wounds per unit caught in your bubble, and their only answer is a 5+ invul save.

Statistically, it doesn't kill it on average, but what it does do is take off most of it's wounds, and forces a grounding test. If it fails that test, it's almost certainly dead either from the fall, or from the fact that it's a T5 4+ critter sitting on the ground with probably 1 wound at that point...meaning it's fodder for pretty much anything in range.

Worried about a quad gun? I have an answer for you: Lictors. Deep strike them with no scaatter right behind the ADL, flesh hook the crew manning the gun itself (if not outright destroy the thing, I forget the exact stats on the flesh hooks, I think they're S6 Ap- on lictors?), you'll probably lose the lictors to whatever else is back there, but it knocks the Quad Gun out long enough for your Harpy or Crone or whathave you to book it up the field and vector strike it out of existence. For added fun, also take deathleaper. Alternatively, take a Mawloc. Even better, take a Mawloc AND lictors, infiltrate the Lictors up front, and get them in position by turn 2 to allow the mawloc to come up underneath the quad gun. With Swarmlord in the mix you're almost guaranteed to pull it off.

My thoughts about the book, middle of the road, I think they are more competitive than before, they definitely have some good counters for Taudar (come on Shadows in the Warp screws over any psychic power shenanigans your opponent might try to pull, plus access to poison and certain psychic powers can really hurt as well) and I think they are balanced against all comers, but they definitely lack a blatant "I win" like certain other books have (although nine carnifexes... *shudders*), and the army is a lot more reliant on synergy and requires a bit of strategic play (see my above example of using lictors and/or mawlocs to disrupt your opponent and open up holes to allow the rest of your army to overrun their line).

My biggest complaint about the book is that its uninspired, aside from removing two of my favorite units (Parasite and Ymgarl stealers), the new things added in are rather lackluster, as in I see what they were attempting to do with the different units they introduced, but for the most part the execution seems lazy and boring, like the Haruspex could be great... if it wasn't a crappy model with WS3 and only 3 or 4 attacks. The Crone could be great, if it wasn't so fragile or its drool cannon was a little bit better (come on, no Torrent??!?). Really the only new thing that shines I think is the Exocrine. Some of the point cuts I think weren't quite steep enough (I think warriors/shrikes could have been a bit cheaper, as well as adrenal glands/toxin sacs for anything except monstrous creatures), and they seem to have missed some opportunities for cool special rules (would it really be too much to ask for deathleaper to have the old ymgarl ability to assault on the turn it appears or something?)

**the shrouded lord**

SYK
evolution= random mutation massed on from generation to generation.
E.g: A fish being orange instead of silver, and procreating to create a new sub-species of the original fish species.
Adaptation= changes made to a creature's appearance or mental trait that helps it survive in an otherwise hostile environment or situation
E.g: a desert spider living under ground to avoid the heat, or a lizard developing larger claws to grab larger prey as their is a shortage in smaller.
/ SCIENCE!

**Kroothawk**

A GumyBear wrote:
I would return my dex had I bought one since it sold out at my GW at my FLGS, however I just checked back in yesterday at my FLGS, to pick up some reaper models for count as slaanesh daemon princes, only to find that almost all the books were back in stock (there was I think 1 book missing) when I asked if they already restocked that fast he reponded quickly with "no they all got returned and I'm not suprised" despite the fact that on saturday they won a RTT at that same FLGS

That is the only language, a GW manager might understand, before he again overrules the design team.

**Django_Unchained**

chaos0xomega wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:

Flyrants own daemon princes and even most of the Greater Daemons. They fly up to them and put them in shadows reach, then hit them with psychic scream so they test on leadership 6 or hit them with a str 10 warp lance to instant kill them. You still have 12 str 6 shots to get into them all for a Flyrant who costs 70-120pts less than the Daemon it is attacking.

Don't forget about the effects of psychic scream on lesser daemons. Daemons being leadership 7 base, then reduced to 4 by shadows in the warp, and you're looking at causing an average of 5 wounds per unit caught in your bubble, and their only answer is a 5+ invul save.

Statistically, it doesn't kill it on average, but what it does do is take off most of it's wounds, and forces a grounding test. If it fails that test, it's almost certainly dead either from the fall, or from the fact that it's a T5 4+ critter sitting on the ground with probably 1 wound at that point...meaning it's fodder for pretty much anything in range.

Worried about a quad gun? I have an answer for you: Lictors. Deep strike them with no scaatter right behind the ADL, flesh hook the crew manning the gun itself (if not outright destroy the thing, I forget the exact stats on the flesh hooks, I think they're S6 Ap- on lictors?), you'll probably lose the lictors to whatever else is back there, but it knocks the Quad Gun out long enough for your Harpy or Crone or whathave you to book it up the field and vector strike it out of existence. For added fun, also take deathleaper. Alternatively, take a Mawloc. Even better, take a Mawloc AND lictors, infiltrate the Lictors up front, and get them in position by turn 2 to allow the mawloc to come up underneath the quad gun. With Swarmlord in the mix you're almost guaranteed to pull it off.

My thoughts about the book, middle of the road, I think they are more competitive than before, they definitely have some good counters for Taudar (come on Shadows in the Warp screws over any psychic power shenanigans your opponent might try to pull, plus access to poison and certain psychic powers can really hurt as well) and I think they are balanced against all comers, but they definitely lack a blatant "I win" like certain other books have (although nine carnifexes... *shudders*), and the army is a lot more reliant on synergy and requires a bit of strategic play (see my above example of using lictors and/or mawlocs to disrupt your opponent and open up holes to allow the rest of your army to overrun their line).

My biggest complaint about the book is that its uninspired, aside from removing two of my favorite units (Parasite and Ymgarl stealers), the new things added in are rather lackluster, as in I see what they were attempting to do with the different units they introduced, but for the most part the execution seems lazy and boring, like the Haruspex could be great... if it wasn't a crappy model with WS3 and only 3 or 4 attacks. The Crone could be great, if it wasn't so fragile or its drool cannon was a little bit better (come on, no Torrent??!?). Really the only new thing that shines I think is the Exocrine. Some of the point cuts I think weren't quite steep enough (I think warriors/shrikes could have been a bit cheaper, as well as adrenal glands/toxin sacs for anything except monstrous creatures), and they seem to have missed some opportunities for cool special rules (would it really be too much to ask for deathleaper to have the old ymgarl ability to assault on the turn it appears or something?)

my Slaanesh Daemon Princes own flyrants. Their lack of invul, lower initiative, etc always loses... Not to mention it's even worse for them now give we actually STILL have access to biomancy. A lot of crack has been smoked prior to writing this. Not to mention shadows doesn't effect tzeentch daemons as they always have a static +3 to their leadership.

**Fragile**

Django_Unchained wrote:
[

my Slaanesh Daemon Princes own flyrants. Their lack of invul, lower initiative, etc always loses... Not to mention it's even worse for them now give we actually STILL have access to biomancy. A lot of crack has been smoked prior to writing this. Not to mention shadows doesn't effect tzeentch daemons as they always have a static +3 to their leadership.

While I dont disagree that DPs will eat Flyrants, what is giving your Daemons the +3 ??

**A GumyBear**

Fragile wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
[

my Slaanesh Daemon Princes own flyrants. Their lack of invul, lower initiative, etc always loses... Not to mention it's even worse for them now give we actually STILL have access to biomancy. A lot of crack has been smoked prior to writing this. Not to mention shadows doesn't effect tzeentch daemons as they always have a static +3 to their leadership.

While I dont disagree that DPs will eat Flyrants, what is giving your Daemons the +3 ??

Daemons of tzeentch get plus 3 to psy tests

**CthuluIsSpy**

A GumyBear wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
[

my Slaanesh Daemon Princes own flyrants. Their lack of invul, lower initiative, etc always loses... Not to mention it's even worse for them now give we actually STILL have access to biomancy. A lot of crack has been smoked prior to writing this. Not to mention shadows doesn't effect tzeentch daemons as they always have a static +3 to their leadership.

While I dont disagree that DPs will eat Flyrants, what is giving your Daemons the +3 ??

Daemons of tzeentch get plus 3 to psy tests

But only to psychic tests. They will still suffer -3 to their instability tests.

**wallygator**

i hate reading this as a good friend of mine plays nids. And it makes me worried about the future ork codex.. i want my greenskins to run-assault all over the battlefield again like they did in 5th, not run and get shot to grotpieces..

**Antario**

I had expected a lot more from the first close combat centric codex in 6th. There is no delivery mechanism for close combat troops/short range shooty units except target saturation, cover and some risky deep strike options. The drop pod removal without any compensation is hard to understand. The Hive fleets could have been used to promote different builds through different synapse buffs much like SM chapter tactics. The return of the mutable genus and mutations from third edition was another thing I was hoping for.

Instead we end up with an uninspired copy paste from 5th edition with four/two new units of which only the Exocrine seem to offer new ability the army lacked, some random point changes and a new physic table. All of which could have been made by an intern in a single afternoon.

I'm tempted to return the codex to the store, as I won't buy any of the new units and I can pretty much use my 5th edition codex with a few errata pages instead.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Might be a bit controversial, but I'm actually quite happy with how underwhelming the new book is.

After Tau and Eldar books which are absolutely absurd and game breaking in terms of power (good bye, every faction that relied on cover to survive!), it's nice to have one that's potentially bearable to play against, and doesn't melt half your army within 2 shooting phases.

**Fragile**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Might be a bit controversial, but I'm actually quite happy with how underwhelming the new book is.

After Tau and Eldar books which are absolutely absurd and game breaking in terms of power (good bye, every faction that relied on cover to survive!), it's nice to have one that's potentially bearable to play against, and doesn't melt half your army within 2 shooting phases.

And yet, Tau and Eldar are balanced very well against each other.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Fragile wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Might be a bit controversial, but I'm actually quite happy with how underwhelming the new book is.

After Tau and Eldar books which are absolutely absurd and game breaking in terms of power (good bye, every faction that relied on cover to survive!), it's nice to have one that's potentially bearable to play against, and doesn't melt half your army within 2 shooting phases.

And yet, Tau and Eldar are balanced very well against each other.

Yes. Pity that not every army is Tau and Eldar.

**Souleater**

It is odd. Given the aroma of 2nd Edition I get playing 6th I was suspecting that nids would get a boost to their CC abilites, along with things like disruption tables.

Nids take lots of shooting damage but are powerful in assault such that if we can get broods into combat we have a good chance of winning or crippling. I'm talking about Stealers, Warriors, Raveners, MCs, etc. I'm not saying three hormies should be taking down a GK Paladin squad.

That broods might attack each other due to failed IB tests seems unwarranted compared to the pros and cons of ATsKNF/chapter tactics.

The nerfs piled onto the Tervigon are unwarranted. Three Troops MCs for a pittance in 'gaunt' tax was a bit much but capping it at 0-1 and upping the unlocking brood to 30 would have set things straight. it was also one of the only models in the fifth ed codex that had actual, functioning synergy. Which has been completely removed and replaced with the new improved Field of Death.

The biggest thing at the moment is the HTH capabilites of the Nids. I get the sense that GW really didn't want them overshadowing other armies.

For example, we now have to play by the same rules as everybody else with regard to stacking weapons. I believe this was a great rule, easy to understand and gave Nids a little more punch in CC. However, GW clearly didn't think this wasn't fair. So Nids are forced to play by the rules.

Except we aren't allowed to play by the rules - we have to have two sets of CC weapons to gain a bonus attack rather than just the one pair everybody else needs. Given the number of attacks thrown out by some Ork, Marine and Daemon units I just don't understand this.

Then add on that we can't take allies. Our transport options were deleted wholesale. We can't use the BRB psychic disciplines.

It also seems a tad arbitrary that Carnifexes and Haruspexes are WS3. At WS5 these guys would be viable as assault units against infantry as well as vehicles.

Lastly, there is an odd mix about things they fixed (Spore Mines not giving the enemy anything for dying, for example) but the Pyrovore remains doggedly pointless. The Deathspitter remains a slightly buffed Devourer rather than the excellent weapon it was until Cruddace completely changed it.

The Crone is an odd duck... I just dont' see why I would take it over the Harpy - which can drop bombs, engage targets at much safer ranges with better weapons, assist in assault.

Warriors still mope around with T4 - which oddly makes them more likely to die in the kind of casual games they are likely to appear in!

In an edition where shooting armies have received buffs to shooting I was hoping that Nids - who let us remember take casualites by the fistful to shooting - would get a little boost. I get the impression that GW has oversold itself on the value of quantity over quality.

**chaos0xomega**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
A GumyBear wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Django_Unchained wrote:
[

my Slaanesh Daemon Princes own flyrants. Their lack of invul, lower initiative, etc always loses... Not to mention it's even worse for them now give we actually STILL have access to biomancy. A lot of crack has been smoked prior to writing this. Not to mention shadows doesn't effect tzeentch daemons as they always have a static +3 to their leadership.

While I dont disagree that DPs will eat Flyrants, what is giving your Daemons the +3 ??

Daemons of tzeentch get plus 3 to psy tests

But only to psychic tests. They will still suffer -3 to their instability tests.

And they're technically still at -3 to their psychic tests, trying to make your psychic tests at ld 7 ain't fun, trust me.

The Crone is an odd duck... I just dont' see why I would take it over the Harpy - which can drop bombs, engage targets at much safer ranges with better weapons, assist in assault.

You take the Crone for its anti-vehicle and anti-flyer capabilities, something that the Harpy cant (in my opinion) do quite as well.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Souleater wrote:

The Crone is an odd duck... I just dont' see why I would take it over the Harpy - which can drop bombs, engage targets at much safer ranges with better weapons, assist in assault.

Well, the Crone does come with S8 vector strike and 4 haywire missiles, so it's slightly better against flyers.

I for one was hoping to see the living ammunition and that variable weapon strength for the bio-weapons return. I thought those were some pretty cool rules back in fourth.
But nope, same as everyone else :/

For a faction that's meant to be an alien threat from another galaxy, they seem to be just like everyone else. Still, at least they didn't mess up the meta as much as marker lights and Serpents did. They just didn't change it :/

**tomball0706**

I managed to get a refund when I returned my codex at GW, the book didn't even last a day with me and I'm actually pretty upset about it, I'm being playing Nids now for the last 3 generations and I've loved them, sure the last 'dex had it's problems but we had builds that were strong so it wasn't that bad, but this dex? I'll just get on my hands and knees for GW and beg for a FAQ asap, will that make you happy!

I think when playing Tau, spore barrage and Biovores could go an extremly long way, which I'm actually quite interested in trying out

Oh the best/worst bit, when returning the 'dex, the poor guy at GW said I wasn't the first returning it today and that he too is upset with how much of a rush job it seems which made me feel guilty, I asure you he wasn't going for the sympathy card with puppy eyes either, and ended up buying the carnifex box cause I didn't in the morning and wish I did when I left, curse you GW!

**Souleater**

The Harpy seems like a toolbox on wings. The Crone doesn't offer as much, IMO.

Are the Harpy's Smash attacks going to be that less effective than the Crone's Vector Strikes?

I agree on the Haywire Missiles - as long as I can survive long enough to fire them all

**Ravenous D**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Souleater wrote:

The Crone is an odd duck... I just dont' see why I would take it over the Harpy - which can drop bombs, engage targets at much safer ranges with better weapons, assist in assault.

Well, the Crone does come with S8 vector strike and 4 haywire missiles, so it's slightly better against flyers.

Which it can only fire 2 weapons a turn and only moves 24" guaranteeing a turn of shooting at it. Or losing half its wounds to anyone with a quad gun simply by showing up. A storm talon with skyhammer missiles has a good chance of one shotting it. Good thing there isn't a formation that lets you take 6.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Ravenous D wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Souleater wrote:

The Crone is an odd duck... I just dont' see why I would take it over the Harpy - which can drop bombs, engage targets at much safer ranges with better weapons, assist in assault.

Well, the Crone does come with S8 vector strike and 4 haywire missiles, so it's slightly better against flyers.

Which it can only fire 2 weapons a turn and only moves 24" guaranteeing a turn of shooting at it. Or losing half its wounds to anyone with a quad gun simply by showing up. A storm talon with skyhammer missiles has a good chance of one shotting it. Good thing there isn't a formation that lets you take 6.

Yeah...they should have really made everything be taken in squads. Like, 1-3 Haruspex in a squad, 1-3 Exocrine, ect.
If IG can do it with tanks, nids can do it with MC. I mean, they already did it for carnies, why not them?

**soomemafia**

Likan Wolfsheim wrote:
I picked up the new book for my brother today and we looked through the book and even did some toying around with the lists. It's still too early to give a final verdict, but my tentative judgement is this: The book has horrid internal balance, but is going to have a couple solid builds. All in all I think it might suffer from the Codex: Helldrake problem of having a ton of crap, but a few spammable gems. Again, this is all first-look speculation, but I think that the Tyranids might be able to stand up to Eldar with some effort. Tau, however, I think will likely have an easy time dealing with the bugs. Grav Gun biker spam will also be nasty against 'nids.

Here are a few quick thoughts on the new stuff (I'm not going to cover everything here, just a few things):

HQ
-Dakka Flyrants got a points reduction, clocking in at 230pts total for the critter and two brainleech devourers. They also got BS4 which will do wonders for all that shooting. However they (and all other psykers) lose access to the BRB powers, which is no fun. The other HQs don't seem like much special, though I haven't read Deathleaper's stuff, admittedly. Tervigons got nerfed hard...it was to be expected.

Troops
Termagants and Hormagaunts got dropped by a point. Scything Talons got hit with the nerfbat so I don't think Hormagants are worth it, but the point reduction helps when filling out your troops with Termagants. Warriors are still lacklustre, and Rippers...we don't talk about Rippers.

Elites
This used to be one of the best spots, but now it's rather...meh. Hive Guard were dropped to BS3 and got a 5pt/model increase...because why not? Venomthropes have an interesting effect, but since it's applied to models, rather than units, you have to bunch your stuff around the 'thropes...which might not always be good. Zoanthropes got 10pts cheaper and seem just as good (other than being restricted to Tyranid powers only) as they used to be--might be good for some extra synapse. The Haruspex has an underwhelming statline for a purely CC monster (WS3/A3? Really?) and it's not worth the points...which is a pity 'cause I think it's a cute lil' guy.

Fast Attack
Pretty much everything here seemed mediocre...but then I took a good look at the Hive Crone. The flying beastie gets 4 Haywire missiles, a S6/AP4 template, and S8 Vector Strike for a few points more than a bare LRBT. These guys could do a lot of damage to flyers/vehicles and, once they run out of big targets, can melt infantry if there's nothing better to do. Unfortunately they have a T5, W5 profile with a 4+ armour save...so they will go down fast. Still, I think multiple Crones in an army led by two Flyrants can create for a nasty situation in the skies. I *think* these guys are going to become auto-includes, but I also think that there's a good chance I'll be proven wrong.

Heavy Support
Trygons/Primes got a slight points decrease and I think the Primes are a decent choice for a reasonably durable synapse in a codex where the synapse creatures seem underwhelming, though a few zoanthropes might do a better job. I heard bad things about the Exocrine in the rumour discussions but I think this beastie is actually really solid. 6 S7/AP2 attacks or a single S7/AP2 Large Blast is impressive and when the critter stands still he's BS4--the 6-attack mode in particular strikes me as something which could seriously ruin somebody's day. Unfortunately the range of the thing is only 24", and the weapon gets much less effective if he's BS3 from moving around.

And then there's the Carnifex. The beautiful Carnifex. They got a 40 point reduction. Now a 'fex loaded out with 2 brainleech devourers is only 150pts--I think that's fairly reasonable for 12 twin-linked S6 shots. And you can take them in broods if you really love dakka (though diminishing returns is likely sure to kick in...). I think these guys have the potential to be devastating and help for saturating the board with targets.

Just my general, first thoughts. We'll see how things go in practice.

Well, seems great that there are people who can find something good to say about this new codex.
Three most important things I see here:
- Exocrine looks pretty good. Never underestimate large blasts. Or S7. S7 is nice.
- Carnifexes seem pretty good to me. Not great, but good.
- Crone. S6AP4 Template. AP4. Ringing any bells? 4+ armor guys that need cover save, anyone?

Sorry if I missed something important, haven't played with 'Nids

**Harriticus**

GW codices these days are produced first and foremost to charge a lot, the current books along with those silly picture books called "supplements" are made without even a modicum of real effort. It's not a surprise the codex ended up being like this. They needed to rush it into sale to keep up the blitzkrieg of book releases as a new way to scam out money since finecast failed so badly.

**fartherthanfar**

A few points about the new shadow in the warp guys.
It only affects psykers,
so previous post about how usefull against deamons (for psychic scream) is forgeting to mention this.
it does on the other hand affect psychers on all leadership test (not just psychic test) which is awesome for psychic scream, the horror, fear tests, panic test and all sorts of other shenanigans. Overall its much better than before (especially when you see our new psychic powers.)
And even tzeetch deamon are annoyed by it since they lose their +3 on their psychic test and lose 3 on every other test they might be forced to take (psychic scream!!!!!!!!)

**CthuluIsSpy**

fartherthanfar wrote:
A few points about the new shadow in the warp guys.
It only affects psykers,
so previous post about how usefull against deamons (for psychic scream) is forgeting to mention this.
it does on the other hand affect psychers on all leadership test (not just psychic test) which is awesome for psychic scream, the horror, fear tests, panic test and all sorts of other shenanigans. Overall its much better than before (especially when you see our new psychic powers.)
And even tzeetch deamon are annoyed by it since they lose their +3 on their psychic test and lose 3 on every other test they might be forced to take (psychic scream!!!!!!!!)

It also hoses GK, since all of their infantry have the brotherhood of psykers special rule, iirc.

**fartherthanfar**

true it does help against force weapons a lot

Automatically Appended Next Post:
here are my thought about the new book, ITS STILL GOOD!!!!
I would dare to say its better than before, and thats all I was hoping for. I wouldnt have minded becoming the top dog like eldars and tau did but im fine where we stand.

if i break it down it goes like this:

we lost

Mycetic spores ( hate this one the most )

doom of malantai (with no spores im not surprised but it still really sucks)

Biomancy (really big blow but the new powers are very decent overall so I can deal with this (especially since we cast better than before))

Tervigon got hit with a nerf hammer (really hopping for a FAQ on this to help him a little bit cuz I have a hard time imagining a list with a tervigon now and i have 2 well painted Tervigon models)

Flyrants hive commander doesnt give +1 to reserve roll is 5pts less tho (losing mycetic spore makes this less annoying but still kinda sucks

Lance Warp blast is now ap2 (acceptable loss cuz now the swarmlord can cast it, doesnt quite break even but we got other stuff to make up )

hive guards cost 5 pts more and lost Bs going down to 3.
their gun is more stable in its affect (fully ignores cover and can still shoot out of line of sight if out of synapse)

tyranid prime was never an option for me so I dont care for the point increase

on the other hand we GAINED:

regular Flyrant is 30 pts cheaper (30!!!!!) got Bs4 and can now cast 2 spells per turn (lost biomancy but still a clear buff on our best unit from last edition)

Swarmlord got Bs4 and warpblast access and psycker lvl3, lost a few tricks but not the important one (lost biomancy which is the big blow and cost 5 pts more, not great but tyrant guard are 10 pts less each so a swarmlord with 2 guards is 15pts less than before (i call that one breaking about even)

deathleaper is now cheaper and I would say a bit better in its ability, he's HQ which is slightly annoying but I can see some use for that

Venomthropes are freaking Awesome!!!!! will be a "must have". So much better than before it not even funny (such a win!!!!!)

lictors got an extra attack, fear, infiltrator, assault grenades and cost 15pts less (sooooo win!!! I always loved lictors and now I can actually use them without feeling like i am shooting myself in the foot to use them)

crones are good and harpys cost 10pts less and get +1w and +1 att (awesome, now we got ourselves a real airforce)

exocrines are great

trygons gost 10pts less

mawlocs are way better (only 140pts and better terror from the deep (ignores cover!!)

more than this but I got no more time to write

overall our guys are ALOT cheaper, got a good shooter MC and great easy access to amazing cover saves, and a great airforce with lots of other stuff, we lost alot, but I think its still better than before.

**H.B.M.C.**

tomball0706 wrote:
Oh the best/worst bit, when returning the 'dex, the poor guy at GW said I wasn't the first returning it today and that he too is upset with how much of a rush job it seems which made me feel guilty

Yikes. That's not good.

A GumyBear wrote:
I would return my dex had I bought one since it sold out at my GW at my FLGS, however I just checked back in yesterday at my FLGS... only to find that almost all the books were back in stock (there was I think 1 book missing) when I asked if they already restocked that fast he reponded quickly with "no they all got returned and I'm not suprised"...

Double yikes.

I'm really hoping this acts as a wakeup call to GW.

soomemafia wrote:
- Exocrine looks pretty good. Never underestimate large blasts. Or S7. S7 is nice.

Say it with me now: Twenty-four inches!

soomemafia wrote:
- Carnifexes seem pretty good to me. Not great, but good.

If one of the good things you can say about a Codex ends with the words "Not great, but good", then we are indeed fishing for good things to say. And you forgot that Carnifex broods out of synapse can punch each other to death.

soomemafia wrote:
- Crone. S6AP4 Template. AP4. Ringing any bells? 4+ armor guys that need cover save, anyone?

Doesn't have torrent. It's not a Helldrake. It's not even close to a Helldrake.

**soomemafia**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

soomemafia wrote:
- Crone. S6AP4 Template. AP4. Ringing any bells? 4+ armor guys that need cover save, anyone?

Doesn't have torrent. It's not a Helldrake. It's not even close to a Helldrake.

Just a second.
Mmmmmm..... Nope. I just re-read my post and never claimed such.
If your definition of a bad unit is that it's not as good as Heldrake, then no wonder you got disappointed.

**CthuluIsSpy**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

soomemafia wrote:
- Exocrine looks pretty good. Never underestimate large blasts. Or S7. S7 is nice.

Say it with me now: Twenty-four inches!

As a necron player, 24" is fine