Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I wouldn't say that it's totally uncompetitive, but it certainly doesn't look fun to play. About the only viable troops choice is going to be termagant hordes, which should be about as effective as guardsmen or shoota boys for similar points. However, footslogging infantry hordes are an absolute nightmare to buy, build, paint, transport and move across the table.

I'm utterly baffled why warriors continue to be so rubbish. Everyone knows that they are bad, everyone is clear on why they are bad, it would be an easy fix to make them good again, but for some reason GW gave them the same old rules... don't expect sales of that new kit they got to be high.

Can Nids man guns now? or is that still a no?

I'm still praying an FAQ goes "oh crap, we didnt mean to take away main rulebook powers since the book says they have them" but i'm sure that's wishful thinking. Right up there with them giving me parasite of mortrex, doom, and ymgarl stealers back :(

I only want my drop pods back. That is really the only thing that upsets me. I had a 6 Pod list that wrecked everything it played.

That and the Hive guard BS nerf. I was hoping losing the doom out of the codex I would want to put in some Hive guard. Not w/ BS 3 and the Zoans and Venoms being so much better.

So we can man guns now right?

.

Did not see this mentioned anywhere, not sure on parasite, but doom and the pod were most likely removed from the book due to the chapterhouse ruling.

This codex makes no sense, the design decisions make no sense.. not even in a we must nerf what was good before to sell new models.
I mean it makes no sense to me at all.

They nerfed Rippers and pyrovore's ffs..... really? who in their right mind thought those needed nerfing.. what was the decision and reasoning behind that?

I'm starting to think that GW just hates tyranids and those who play them. The more i look at this book the more i get angry. For every cool thing (Red Terror
Return) there are 5 things that just suck.

Rakear wrote:
Did not see this mentioned anywhere, not sure on parasite, but doom and the pod were most likely removed from the book due to the chapterhouse ruling.

This codex makes no sense, the design decisions make no sense.. not even in a we must nerf what was good before to sell new models.
I mean it makes no sense to me at all.

They nerfed Rippers and pyrovore's ffs..... really? who in their right mind thought those needed nerfing.. what was the decision and reasoning behind that?

 Lobukia wrote:
http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/01/11/jy2-on-the-strengths-of-the-new-nids/

And anyone who thinks jy2 isn't a realist just isn't making a credible argument.

He does point out that the winners of the Codex are mainly in the heavy support section, I suppose that's a change from the elite section in 5th edition.

Bloodynecronight wrote:
people keep waiting for someone to pull a diamond out of this. Its not there sure nids can be annoying but again without acces to +toughness and 1 creature with a 2+ armor save, not to mention not a single wound increase,

Where do you plan on finding it? In all the melee additions? Cool tail brah ill shoot you before you use it

tell that to the mawloc behind you.

In all honesty, the only saving grace of the new codex is trygon prime+ 2 mawlocs.
and, as ive said on multiple other threads : THEY KILLED MY PARASITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and ymgarl genestealers. Seriously does anybody have some fluff explaining the ymgarl factor? Because it kinda feels like a slap in the face.

 StarTrotter wrote:
and ymgarl genestealers. Seriously does anybody have some fluff explaining the ymgarl factor? Because it kinda feels like a slap in the face.

My guess? Someone realized the idea of there being something Tyranids -won't- eat was a bit silly (seriously, eating is there thing and the idea that there would be these Genestealers -trying- to be eaten and failing is a bit silly regardless how they dressed it) but kept the idea and made it an artefact.

Not saying it wouldn't have made a cool upgrade for the Genestealers themselves (its what I was expecting when I first read the description) but I can see what they were trying to do too.

Wow, it appears the answer to my question is quite obvious. GW messed this one up big time. I don't know anyone who is happy about this. Maybe people should just boycott the new codex. Continue to use 5th edition rules if it's that bad.

 StarTrotter wrote:
and ymgarl genestealers. Seriously does anybody have some fluff explaining the ymgarl factor? Because it kinda feels like a slap in the face.

Manager: Delete Ymgarl Genestealers.
Designer: And what with the evolved abilities? Tyranids never go back in evolution.
Manager: Just make it a general ability. Worked with Old One Eye's regeneration.
Designer: Okay (sulks).

I don't know a great deal about synapse. But, from what I'm gathering it seems like you'd spend a lot of the game worrying about your own army killing itself somehow. Yeah, that sounds like fun....

I held off judgement of the rumours until I actually had my grubby mitts on the codex. Now I have it, I must say I too am seriously disappointed

I'm not one to jump on 'the sky is falling' bandwagon usually, but I have to say this codex is really very ill conceived. As most people have already said, it's very similar to the old (poorly balanced) codex, with a few changes that mostly amount to a slight (and frankly, baffling) nerf.

My main reaction to my first couple of readings was boredom. I've never had this before when I read a new codex, even ones that I think are under powered, poorly balanced, or over-the-top. New rules always interest me and get me excited. Not this time.

I was really expecting this new release to address the serious internal balance issues the previous codex had. I have to say, I hear a lot of people complain that Eldar and Tau are over powered books. I don't feel that at all. In fact I feel that they're rather well written, with an emphasis on internal balance.

This issue of internal balance really is key to me. External balance (how well an army can hold up against other armies) is important, for sure. But I'm not a competitive player. I don't mind playing with a codex that is widely considered not as powerful as some of the others. What I care about is being able to have fun, and feeling as though I have options to play with. The Tau codex for instance (which incidentally scored highly for external balance too) is great at this. Pick a force organisation slot that isn't troops. In that slot you have a choice of options to fullfil anti-transport, anti-tank, anti-air, ant-horde, anti-MEQ, etc etc. This is great, It gives the player a great deal of freedom in how he builds his army.

This was one of the serious short-comings of the previous Tyranid codex and it has barely been addressed at all. Tyranids still have an abundance of high rate of fire mid strength ani-infantry weapons with poor AP values that cap out at str6. What Tyranid players really needed were more viable options to create a healthy variety of builds, and this codex certainly doesn't provide that.

I want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting that Tyranids should have been given great anti-tank or anti-flyer abilities. Factions are (theoretically) characterised by weaknesses in this game, and armies like Orks and Nids have always had issues dealing with armour. I simply hopes that the options we did have were agbout to be more numerous and spread out over the FO chart. Some of the recent releases really got my hopes up in this regard.

Here's an example of a couple of small changes that would have greatly altered internal balance that I was foolish enough to hope for:

Heavy Venom Cannon loses blast template, becomes Str 9 Assult 2 AP 4. I wouldve been happy for it to keep it's penalty on the vehicle damage table. I would have even been happy for it to keep the old restriction of only being able to score glancing hits.

This would have given Hive Tyrants, Harpies, and Carnifexes a decent long range options for dealing with transports and make walking tyrants and fire support Carnis viable.

A biomorph that can only be taken by a few models in the codex that gives a model skyfire. Perhaps on option on warriors, Hive Guard, and Hive Tyrants. Make Venom Cannons Assault 2 str 6 and then a unit of warriors could be useful for spamming str5/6 shots into flyers.

That's just a start and an example of how some simple changes could really have helped Nids have more flexibility in list builds.

This was a rambling rant, I'm well aware, and I apologise for that. I really wasn't expecting, despite every one else protesting, to be this disappointed with the new codex.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I may be a complete idiot, but can someone explain to me why anyone would think it would be a good idea to charge more points to swap a Hive Guards Impaler Cannon with a Shock Cannon? That gun really really confuses me. I honestly don't know what the designer was thinking in this instance

I'm so, so sorry Tyranid players. Truly, I am.

This book was unwarranted. It's like what CSM players got only even worse.

It really feels like they just took the last book, cut whatever didn't specifically have a model, arbitrarily changed some random points values on existing stuff without much regard to appropriateness of the change, and added a couple new things randomly. All largely without any reference to how the 6E rules actually play.

Just noticed something today; Hive Guard, a unit described as a "gun-beast", has a better weapon skill than ballistic skill. This baffles me.

Help me out please!
When unit of Biovores fires it's multiple barrage, does each large blast that misses the target spawns d3 mines? or only first one, or in some other way?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Just noticed something today; Hive Guard, a unit described as a "gun-beast", has a better weapon skill than ballistic skill. This baffles me.

Their BS went down and they went up in price.

But it's ok - some things are now a bit cheaper, so the whole Codex is 100% perfect and fine and we didn't have a significant proportion of our units nerfed or stillborn. No. Some prices went down. That's all that matters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Just noticed something today; Hive Guard, a unit described as a "gun-beast", has a better weapon skill than ballistic skill. This baffles me.

Their BS went down and they went up in price.

But it's ok - some things are now a bit cheaper, so the whole Codex is 100% perfect and fine and we didn't have a significant proportion of our units nerfed or stillborn. No. Some prices went down. That's all that matters.

At the very least, CSM aren't alone on the whining about major fluff and codex issues anymore.

DA would be included if they had enough of a playerbase to complain about.

Along with Sisters, who have always been downtrodden.

Yeah, sarcasm is all we are left with

Seems there are basically two kinds of posters:
1.) "I haven't read it, but come on, it can't be that bad!"
2.) "I have read it, it IS that bad."

JohnnyElfSlayer wrote:

This issue of internal balance really is key to me. External balance (how well an army can hold up against other armies) is important, for sure. But I'm not a competitive player. I don't mind playing with a codex that is widely considered not as powerful as some of the others. What I care about is being able to have fun, and feeling as though I have options to play with. The Tau codex for instance (which incidentally scored highly for external balance too) is great at this. Pick a force organisation slot that isn't troops. In that slot you have a choice of options to fullfil anti-transport, anti-tank, anti-air, ant-horde, anti-MEQ, etc etc. This is great, It gives the player a great deal of freedom in how he builds his army.

Umm, no - Tau has absolutely terrible internal balance. It's no coincidence that nearly all Tau armies look the same: contrast this to many archetypes Guard or Marines can put out.

I do wonder what effect the ruling in the Chapterhouse lawsuit and the many suppliers of alternate models for Tyranids had on this release.

For example, if GW can't be sure of their own copyright on Mycetic Spores, might it not be a good idea to not include them and avoid a potential lawsuit? I know the Mycetic Spore was one of the models that other suppliers made that GW didn't.

But making an abysmal Codex is a drastic measure to kill the Tyranid market

But removing items that have dubious copyright makes sense.

Though they could have just replaced it with a unit upgrade granting Deep Strike.

 Melissia wrote:
Eh, people always complain about the Tyranid codex sucking. It's almost as much a Tyranid pastime as complaining about not getting updates/new models is for Sisters players.

Oh yes, it's Tyranid pastime, I see it now, explains everything. It's funny how the most obvious thing is sometimes the last you would think of.

Or, maybe, the last book gave many people enough reasons to complain. And still, I did not complain ever, I liked it - but I don't like the new one. It is bland, boring and gives an impression of being castrated for the sake of future releases.

Fun fact, I defended 6th edition CSM book, claiming that this might be a start of balanced books trend (hahaha poor fool), was a fan (!) of Cruddace codex but can't find the heart to defend this one.

 Melissia wrote:
I am face-palming at the people who say things like "the only good reviews are written by people who are stupid/ignorant/don't know the codex" though.

I, for example, do not dismiss other people opinions, surely not as much as casual gaming brigade dissmises any criticism of GWs work throwing around WAAC powergamers or whiners (like you for example) bs at anyone disliking the codex. I can imagine the new codex fitting someones playstyle, army or general idea of how nids should work. Still it removed important tactical options and gave nothing in return, why couldn't it provide some new options or at the very least, some new form of deep strike that does not require models or sth.

Now to get back my favourite "nids everywhere" playstyle I will have to go Trygon + 2 Mawlocks route( surely dumbed down and less flexible than throwing down Zoathropes, Gants, Fexes or Doom and still using Trygons or Mawlocks), which btw will surely end up with me being called powergamer by every crybaby against whom they'll turn out even slightly OP. Thanks GW.

I read through the store codex and I was left with a really weak impression. Most of the changes I don't see as a positive and the two new big bugs were lackluster. I was really hoping that shrikes would be anything other than garbage but that has been an empty hope I had prior to the 5th ed book as well.

With the changes to cover in the current edition it turns into an absolute shooting gallery against nids and flyers are sitting ducks as most lists can field significant AA. I'm not seeing a lot of ways to push for assault style play which seems to be where nids are focused. I also have a Templars army and it's a problem that they face as well but they at least have transport options transports which nids do not.

I've had a nids army as long as I've been playing 40k but they've sat on the shelf almost that entire duration as well, I was hoping that the codex would improve things but it doesn't look to be the case. Between a subpar codex and the local bunker closing it's completely soured my interest in picking up any of the new tyranids as the rules are soft and I'll have nowhere local to play. I guess it's a good thing as I'd initially planned on spending the better part of $700 on updating my army. I love the look of nids but I guess they'll just have to continue on being display models as opposed to gaming models.

Not rage quitting, just very disappointed.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Seems there are basically two kinds of posters:
1.) "I haven't read it, but come on, it can't be that bad!"
2.) "I have read it, it IS that bad."

Apart from peopel like jy2 who have played using the codex, noted its deficiencies and think it's not that bad. There will be more.

There are so many price adjustments, on the mawloc, fexes, wings, biovores, venomthropes, even little things like i2 meaning your tervigon might actually survive JOTW, that actually, No; you can't judge the codex by simply looking at the entries. One thing the new codex might stimulate is more diverse builds - huge swarms, flyer spam, MC spam - and it's hard for people to judge unless they try them out and evolve new tactics.

So yes, the codex is lazy, there are obviously serious nerfs, it's outrageous that our troop choice is so limited, and some people will indeed walk away, after being forced to abandon their regular strategy. Of course the codex isn't Eldar or Tau powerful, but I think we've still ot a chance of regularly kicking marine butt. I don't know how it will turn out. Many people will know better than me - but as for those who say they can tell the future, those are the people I personally take least notice of. I'd rather read battle reports from people like jy2 or NIB over on the 'hive.

The codex is fine. It stacks up well against all the other books except Eldar and Tau. Take those two out of the game and it's a fair book.

That being said the Tyranids do have answers for the Tau and Eldar. It's just the devil on the details in trying to get everything into one army list.

Poisoned Gants of all kinds destroy Wraithknights.

Flyrants own daemon princes and even most of the Greater Daemons. They fly up to them and put them in shadows reach, then hit them with psychic scream so they test on leadership 6 or hit them with a str 10 warp lance to instant kill them. You still have 12 str 6 shots to get into them all for a Flyrant who costs 70-120pts less than the Daemon it is attacking.

The horror power is good against Tau, especially Riptides who are leadership 9 and not fearless.

There are things in here that can work. More than I just mentioned.

Most of the complainers are in two camps, IMO.

1. Their 1850pt Bug collection for 5e isn't good enough anymore. Which is true. If you had 2-3k of bugs you are in better shape.

2. The current dynamic of list building is to go cheap on troops and maximum carnage in the other FO slots. That will not work with bugs and people are looking at the codex through that prism.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Seems there are basically two kinds of posters:
1.) "I haven't read it, but come on, it can't be that bad!"
2.) "I have read it, it IS that bad."

Let's add two more to that:

3.) "I've played using this army and it's not bad."
4.) "I haven't played this army and I've only taken a basic glance at its codex and it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks and I don't like it."

More categories is more inclusive after all, amirite?

More importantly, I'm now annoyed that there is yet another nasty flier I'm gonna have to deal with... mutter.