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 fartherthanfar wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Why is the Venomthrope mentioned as some sort of a super saving buff giver of the nid codex .the edition drips in anti cover stuff and it is realy not that hard to kill it .

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

btw Im only expecting the venomthropes to survive till turn 2 or 3 not more, and as long as they can do that I'll be really happy with them, (make sure to leave them out of range and sight as much as possible and most armies wont be able to avoid your army being shrouded)

It completely fits behind a carnifex or three. It doesn't have to die right off the bat. Sitting it out in the open will see it off in short order.

The Necron 5e book is less competitive than the 3e book?

Wat?

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

But those are bad armies , it is hard to impossible to find someone playing those . IG ignore cover is not short range , all the stronghold and escalation D templates have more then enough range . Tau ally or tau formation to support IG also means the ignore cover stuff is there too and it is long range . Sure If someone tries to kill tyranids with melta and flamer vets in chimeras , then yeah venomothrops are the bomb . Only the chimer rush army stoped being good when chaos started playing multi drake builds.

And as being someone who gets pwned by chaos a lot , Two helldrakes will clear venomothropes without problem . Even a single one can just swoop it without cover and then finish it off with a backward flame thanks to the 360 torrent turret .

Makumba wrote:

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

But those are bad armies , it is hard to impossible to find someone playing those . IG ignore cover is not short range , all the stronghold and escalation D templates have more then enough range . Tau ally or tau formation to support IG also means the ignore cover stuff is there too and it is long range . Sure If someone tries to kill tyranids with melta and flamer vets in chimeras , then yeah venomothrops are the bomb . Only the chimer rush army stoped being good when chaos started playing multi drake builds.

And as being someone who gets pwned by chaos a lot , Two helldrakes will clear venomothropes without problem . Even a single one can just swoop it without cover and then finish it off with a backward flame thanks to the 360 torrent turret .

They do nothing when your in close combat, which is where you should be as Tyranids by the time both of them are flying around doing cool moves. Also if your reserving almost 400 points, especially in 1500 points, then you should be at a distinct disadvantage those first two turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:
The Necron 5e book is less competitive than the 3e book?

Wat?

The 3ed book as just as annoying, moreso, than the 5ed book when it came out (having played both extensively upon release). It also wasn;t unplayable up to the point of the release of the newer book.

The book, at the very least, is pretty. I'm still reading through the fluff section and won't probably have time to read the unit rules until this weekend.

I gamed yesterday and apparently got the piss stomped out of me, but that went largely unnoticed as I was so enraptured by the codex's pretty pictures and fluff that I forgot I was even playing. In my fluff induced intoxication I wandered away from the table.

When the game was over he asked at what point I'd left, based on the performance of my army he honestly couldn't tell.

Did you try using tactics and imagination? Because those will let you win anything, no matter the odds.

Buying the codex already makes me a winner on the inside and that fuzzy warm feeling fully insulates me from the bitter sting of reality.

 Kain wrote:
The Necron 5e book is less competitive than the 3e book?

Wat?

Their comparative power levels for the editions they were used in shows the 3rd ed cron book much more powerful for its editions than the 5th ed cron book especially considering that the basic cron warrior rendered vehicles useless e.x. the stray glance from a gauss flayer just blew up your land raider have fun with that.

You can't build an army you like and take it to a casual game and not worry, that's my problem with the book at this point. I'm a casual gamer, and I like to build the armies I like, but I also like to win occasionally.

With other armies, I've built what I wanted, and been able to rely on tactics and army strengths to carry me through. When I put together lists of what I'd like to run with this book I just come out sad. There are TONS of options in the book and so few of them actually serve a purpose outside of combat... and even in combat not much of a purpose. I like walking Tyrants, I like Tyrant Guard, like the Tyranid Prime, like the warriors, like Hormagants, like Crushing claw carnifexes, like Ravenors... to be honest I don't like much of anything with wings. There are so many options where you're just like, "Wow, what a great model... oh well, I suppose I'd like to spend another $80 on models I can't use unless I just want to remove them."

I didn't play the book before, but I could see the 5th Edition uses. In my mind the spore was so cool and a very fluffy concept, it's demise was complete gak, I envisioned this book giving me that powerful carnifex in a pod that didn't have to weather 2 rounds of firepower before he got into the face of the enemy.

Very sad state of affairs, I love the idea of Tyranids, and had always wanted to start an army of them.. but 5th Edition release was poor and now the 6th Edition release is... yeah.

What game are you guys playing where you can't use anything except flyrants and troop tervigons? Taking models off the board wholesale, every turn? Is everyone playing against Taudar competition lists on planet bowling ball every single time you go out?

I'm serious. I don't have these problems that you all are having, maybe I have a really great gaming group or something, but really?

 fartherthanfar wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Why is the Venomthrope mentioned as some sort of a super saving buff giver of the nid codex .the edition drips in anti cover stuff and it is realy not that hard to kill it .

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

btw Im only expecting the venomthropes to survive till turn 2 or 3 not more, and as long as they can do that I'll be really happy with them, (make sure to leave them out of range and sight as much as possible and most armies wont be able to avoid your army being shrouded)

Chaos has 36" S8 AP3 ignoring cover blasts, or S5 AP4 on the move, and getting close means you get blasted by the salvo's.

At my local bunker whenever I go in literally 40% of the people playing are using Tau and another 25-30% are using Eldar. Between those two factions it's 65%-70% of the players, no joking or exaggeration that's the current playing field at the Chicago bunker.

Now that nids armies are being built that percentage may change a bit, but even if they take over a decent chunk of the players it's still going to be a lot of Tau and Eldar to get through. I likely won't be able to see long term effects of the Tyranid relase as the bunker is closing for good next week, but given that they have such as hard match up against the majority of the current local meta I don't see them getting in a very good foothold beyond people trying out the rules for a change of pace.

According to staff the new nids sold well, but most everyone was underwhelmed with the new codex and is not thinking there's much hope for them based on the TauDar presence locally.


We have a very experienced set of players there due to the Adeptus Windy City crew (who run's Adepticon) they hold a fair amount of events here and the average players are pretty skilled, their overall reception of the new mechanics was not very good especially given the local enviroment.

 A GumyBear wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Necron 5e book is less competitive than the 3e book?

Wat?

Their comparative power levels for the editions they were used in shows the 3rd ed cron book much more powerful for its editions than the 5th ed cron book especially considering that the basic cron warrior rendered vehicles useless e.x. the stray glance from a gauss flayer just blew up your land raider have fun with that.

IIRC You needed a 6s to glance and a 6s to blew up, so an average of 36 shoots. In 6th edition you need 6s to glance and 4 glances destroy a Land Raider so 24 shoots .

You had a -2 modifier to glances on the chart. So you had to imobilize and destroy each weapon with a glance before it wrecked the vehicle.

That was in 5th edition, in 4 edition a 6 on a glance would wreck a vehicle, but I don't remember if it was different in 3rd.

 paulson games wrote:
At my local bunker whenever I go in literally 40% of the people playing are using Tau and another 25-30% are using Eldar. Between those two factions it's 65%-70% of the players, no joking or exaggeration that's the current playing field at the Chicago bunker.

Now that nids armies are being built that percentage may change a bit, but even if they take over a decent chunk of the players it's still going to be a lot of Tau and Eldar to get through. I likely won't be able to see long term effects of the Tyranid relase as the bunker is closing for good next week, but given that they have such as hard match up against the majority of the current local meta I don't see them getting in a very good foothold beyond people trying out the rules for a change of pace.

According to staff the new nids sold well, but most everyone was underwhelmed with the new codex and is not thinking there's much hope for them based on the TauDar presence locally.


We have a very experienced set of players there due to the Adeptus Windy City crew (who run's Adepticon) they hold a fair amount of events here and the average players are pretty skilled, their overall reception of the new mechanics was not very good especially given the local enviroment.

Well, then it all makes sense. I didn't realize how many new Eldar and Tau players there were in some areas now.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

Oh my a thread called "opinions on the new codex?"

I'm going to go inside and check it out, and there had best not be any opinions in there!

But Shup, the prices went down!!!

I mean, sure, the upgrade costs went up as well so it's either a case of breaking even or getting more expensive for the same thing... but reduced prices! OMG! So wow. Very Tyranid. Much Cruddace.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But Shup, the prices went down!!!

I mean, sure, the upgrade costs went up as well so it's either a case of breaking even or getting more expensive for the same thing... but reduced prices! OMG! So wow. Very Tyranid. Much Cruddace.

I can't fathom why they got him to do a faction most people agreed was better left to anyone but him? Kelly is an admitted Tyranid fanboy. He seems better suited for the job. Or hell, drag Thorpe out of the library and get his lazy ass back in the game.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Why is the Venomthrope mentioned as some sort of a super saving buff giver of the nid codex .the edition drips in anti cover stuff and it is realy not that hard to kill it .

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

btw Im only expecting the venomthropes to survive till turn 2 or 3 not more, and as long as they can do that I'll be really happy with them, (make sure to leave them out of range and sight as much as possible and most armies wont be able to avoid your army being shrouded)

Chaos has 36" S8 AP3 ignoring cover blasts, or S5 AP4 on the move, and getting close means you get blasted by the salvo's.

Ill fight chaos any day of the week with this new codex, Chaos really doesnt have much good anti air aside from the helturkey and since I dont play in a hyper competitive environment, my people have agreed on a limit of 2 heldrake and a few of the other OP models (riptides, wraithknights) per army so im looking forward to outclassing my chaos opponent in the airforce department.

noise marines are expensive, sure you could kill my venomthropes,IF, you can see them behind all my MC, which might be hard, especially for heavy weapon that cant move.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

LO-freaking-L. Yes, I do think I know better than the Codex writers what makes for a good Codex, since they've shown some pretty naff judgement before. And this is coming from someone who has written, play-tested, balanced and maintained 3 Fandexes. Feel free to keep posting here though, your rants make me laugh.

 kronk wrote:
The book, at the very least, is pretty. I'm still reading through the fluff section and won't probably have time to read the unit rules until this weekend.

This is a fair point. The double-spread artwork straight after the introduction is among the best I've seen in a GW publication. I want it as a poster on my wall.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

Blink. Blink.

Well that happened.

I think someone is passionate. I agree on some level. This forum is pretty filledwith naysayers just because of the sheer OPPORTUNITY afforded by the number of people on this forum. I wonder if GW would listen more if voices of reason like this guy were on it more often.

And that was irony in case ya missed it.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
... and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game...

Well... yeah. I don't like to toot my own horn like this, but as someone with around ten published 40K RPG rulebooks to his name I'd say that myself and a few others I've worked with on those books could do a bang up job with 40K.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself.

I love it when people say this and actually think it is a legitimate argument. How about I go around saying "If you don't like the government than either shut up or run for office yourself".

I sure would sound like an idiot wouldn't I.

Edit: text removed --yakface

Can you actually shoot at a Venemthrope in a bastion? If not then that is likely why JY2 takes them and eliminates the need to worry about it being shot at? still worried then you can always take 2?

Also.. whilst some armies can remove cover that bastion will likely give EVERYTHING in your army shrouded if you deploy correctly. A couple of unit's don't benefit from cover and have to use there own saves, well those are the ones that you give FNP too (2 x flyrant's, Zoanthrope or 2, maybe a Tervigon there is a very good chance to roll it).

And isn't a 3+ 5++ statistically better than a 2+ ?

*My local meta is competitive but not over the top ie.. nothing but broadsides and/or 2++ re rolls*

bodazoka wrote:
Can you actually shoot at a Venemthrope in a bastion? If not then that is likely why JY2 takes them and eliminates the need to worry about it being shot at? still worried then you can always take 2?

Also.. whilst some armies can remove cover that bastion will likely give EVERYTHING in your army shrouded if you deploy correctly. A couple of unit's don't benefit from cover and have to use there own saves, well those are the ones that you give FNP too (2 x flyrant's, Zoanthrope or 2, maybe a Tervigon there is a very good chance to roll it).

And isn't a 3+ 5++ statistically better than a 2+ ?

*My local meta is competitive but not over the top ie.. nothing but broadsides and/or 2++ re rolls*

You cannot fire at the venomthrope if he is inside the bastion, and it extends its range by quite a bit. And technically the bastion itself has 5+ cover save, making it very difficult to kill. Not to mention anything on the battlements has a 2+ cover save like say a zoanthrope with Dominion working as a synaptic anchor.

 fartherthanfar wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Why is the Venomthrope mentioned as some sort of a super saving buff giver of the nid codex .the edition drips in anti cover stuff and it is realy not that hard to kill it .

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

btw Im only expecting the venomthropes to survive till turn 2 or 3 not more, and as long as they can do that I'll be really happy with them, (make sure to leave them out of range and sight as much as possible and most armies wont be able to avoid your army being shrouded)

Chaos has 36" S8 AP3 ignoring cover blasts, or S5 AP4 on the move, and getting close means you get blasted by the salvo's.

Ill fight chaos any day of the week with this new codex, Chaos really doesnt have much good anti air aside from the helturkey and since I dont play in a hyper competitive environment, my people have agreed on a limit of 2 heldrake and a few of the other OP models (riptides, wraithknights) per army so im looking forward to outclassing my chaos opponent in the airforce department.

noise marines are expensive, sure you could kill my venomthropes,IF, you can see them behind all my MC, which might be hard, especially for heavy weapon that cant move.

"I'll fight Chaos any day of the week under house rules that remove the things that other are most concerned about!"

Sorry, but I hope you can see why that sounds a little silly.