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 Gunzhard wrote:


So 2000-points against a spammy (3 riptide) Tau list isn't standard or even close to balanced? ...well according to this thread the Tau should have a MAJOR advantage and win on turn 1 - certainly not close to balanced I guess.

Most people don't like 2k games because double Foc shenanigans and 1850 is the current competitive meta in tournaments.

Imagine a list with 4 flyrants and 5 Mawlocs .

 Gunzhard wrote:

So 2000-points against a spammy (3 riptide) Tau list isn't standard or even close to balanced? ...well according to this thread the Tau should have a MAJOR advantage and win on turn 1 - certainly not close to balanced I guess.

I have my reservations about that Tau list. One source of markers in the army, with a buff commander attached to it none the less.
So his entire plan for the three Riptides was to fire the cover ignoring pieplates at the exact same target each turn.
I would have expected at least one to be a HBC, but still.

Why do people COMPLETELY write off a 2000 point double force org game?

Do you all really only ever play 1850 and/or practice for the tournament's that don't allow DFO?

Nid's are the first time I have ever heard anyone complain so much about a battle report using DFO.


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 Tyran wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:


So 2000-points against a spammy (3 riptide) Tau list isn't standard or even close to balanced? ...well according to this thread the Tau should have a MAJOR advantage and win on turn 1 - certainly not close to balanced I guess.

Most people don't like 2k games because double Foc shenanigans and 1850 is the current competitive meta in tournaments.

Imagine a list with 4 flyrants and 5 Mawlocs .

Was there a poll I missed? lol

He wrote that list out from memory...

Regardless, it's silly to put too much stock in one game for sure - but it is funny that every 'Nid versus Tau' report so far has not gone at all how the naysayers claimed it would here.

Even writing from memory, and assuming it was a drone commander, I don't know where those extra 90 points go.
Assuming the Broadsides and firewarriors had team leaders, there is still 60 points unaccounted for.

There isn't anything that he could put on the Hammerhead that would help if he was just going to castle it.

 Gunzhard wrote:
well according to this thread the Tau should have a MAJOR advantage and win on turn 1

Cite please.

bodazoka wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:


So 2000-points against a spammy (3 riptide) Tau list isn't standard or even close to balanced? ...well according to this thread the Tau should have a MAJOR advantage and win on turn 1 - certainly not close to balanced I guess.

Most people don't like 2k games because double Foc shenanigans and 1850 is the current competitive meta in tournaments.

Imagine a list with 4 flyrants and 5 Mawlocs .

Was there a poll I missed? lol

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/573580.page

The first 2 or 3 pages are people complaining about double FOC. Maybe not as exact as a poll, but still a lot of people don't like double FOC.

bodazoka wrote:
Why do people COMPLETELY write off a 2000 point double force org game?

Because most people rarely play 2000 points, and when they do it's usually in a casual setting.

Most games around where I play tend be 1500, so a 2000 point game, while interesting to read, doesn't really represent what the codex can do, at least not for me.

bodazoka wrote:
Why do people COMPLETELY write off a 2000 point double force org game?

Most people don't like 2k games because double Foc shenanigans and 1850 is the current competitive meta in tournaments.

Imagine a list with 4 flyrants and 5 Mawlocs .

Was there a poll I missed? lol

Yup. All our regional events are 1850 or 1999+1 (aka 2000pt SFO).

And I wonder why 1999+1 events still allow allies.

I wonder why they don't just say 1999.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I wonder why they don't just say 1999.

So people can field lists at 2k, 1999+1 basically means SFO aka non-DFG

So tournament's allow TauDar, Farsight bomb, Screamer Star, Jet Seer Council, and 2++ but not double force org...

What double force org shenanigans could be that bad compared to the above?

1999 + 1 Is a left over from 6th dropping before a large tournament which didn't have time to adjust...

bodazoka wrote:
So tournament's allow TauDar, Farsight bomb, Screamer Star, Jet Seer Council, and 2++ but not double force org...

Yup. Welcome to the world where people are totally fine with everything you just mentioned, but the mere mention of Forge World brings forth cries of "Cheese!" and "WAAC". In the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, there is only imbalance.

 Gunzhard wrote:

Makumba wrote:

The Flyrant also rolled the psyker power that decreased D3 WS and D3 BS, which GREATLY helped control the Riptide... He was nearly useless the entire game.

The as in one Riptide , a tau army with 1 riptide . Cool . What build was he using and how did you avoid your tyrant being hurt ?

Exactly - your opponent must have been a newb or not using a 'good' list cuz the "veterans" in this thread have assured us that Tau will snipe all of your synapse dead on turn 1.

Here is a 2k nid versus tau (spammy 3 riptide) batrep that could've easily gone either way, but again the Tau player must've been a newb cuz the synapse didn't all die immediately. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/01/40k-batrep-tyranids-vs-tau-2k-double-foc.html

double FoC and he isn't using ally or at least coteaz and has 1 unit of marker lights which are drones . Interesting army . I have never seen marker drones used . Do they have some sort of combat squad rules , so they can split or some join other units ?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
So tournament's allow TauDar, Farsight bomb, Screamer Star, Jet Seer Council, and 2++ but not double force org...

Yup. Welcome to the world where people are totally fine with everything you just mentioned, but the mere mention of Forge World brings forth cries of "Cheese!" and "WAAC". In the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, there is only imbalance.

Indeed, I dont get eh double standards, totally oblivious double standards as well. Why not limit allies if you are limiting force orgs?

Because there isn't a points value under which you can't use allies while there is one for double force org?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Because there isn't a points value under which you can't use allies while there is one for double force org?

This, and it's not like dual foc helps. Both sides get it. It only helps spam those same OP units.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Why do people COMPLETELY write off a 2000 point double force org game?

Because most people rarely play 2000 points, and when they do it's usually in a casual setting.

Most games around where I play tend be 1500, so a 2000 point game, while interesting to read, doesn't really represent what the codex can do, at least not for me.

Probably my most hated new rule.

JPong wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Because there isn't a points value under which you can't use allies while there is one for double force org?

This, and it's not like dual foc helps. Both sides get it. It only helps spam those same OP units.

Prettttttty much, it kills list flavour in my experience.

It also kills rock, paper, scissors which I am very glad for.

Eldar and Tau already can spam without the need of double FOC.
Double FOC helps more tier 2 and 3 armies than tier 1 that can already spam a lot.

I would rather play against weaker tier 2-3 armies and live with the fact that I won't beat taudar with or without dual foc , then play dual foc grav marines or dual foc chaos .

Am I the only one that wouldve wanted the Swarmlord to get +1 on steal the initiative roll?

Feel to me like that would represent well his ability to out-think his opponent.

right now i find him a little sub-par

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Am I the only one that wouldve wanted the Swarmlord to get +1 on steal the initiative roll?

Feel to me like that would represent well his ability to out-think his opponent.

right now i find him a little sub-par

Yeah he's basically slightly worse than in 5th ed, and in 5th ed he was considered grossly overpriced... still, he seems like he'd be half-decent, if only for buffing and being a synaptic lynchpin. Way too damn expensive though, I'd rather have 2 Primes for his cost.

Can we kill this thread already?

its boiled down to:

"the nids are good, they can win games"

vs.

"I never said they can't win games, I said we didn't like the codex for other the other listed reasons".

We are done here folks, yes, the problems with the dex are subjective - but that does not mean they are no valid.

Really. The codex is not bad, its just not ....good.

And given the recent books...that is bad.

/thread.

No it's not that the nid dex is bad or good it's that when you boil it all down there's nothing that really stands out. It lacks a wow factor unit.....which probably means it's balanced.


That being said I play games with DFO, allies, stronghold assault, FW and escalations all legal and I haven't seen many problems. Really all I do is keep bad counts as crap out of it. Hard to get steamrolled by a phantom titan if I tell the guy who made one out of toilet papers rolls to frak off and get a real one or at least convert one worthy of the name.

Minor gripe for most I guess but big for me is that they replaced the great picture of Hive Tyrant strangling some ork with the atrocious new one.

Also is anyone else thinking the artwork looks worse in color, at least the way GW did it?

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Minor gripe for most I guess but big for me is that they replaced the great picture of Hive Tyrant strangling some ork with the atrocious new one.

Also is anyone else thinking the artwork looks worse in color, at least the way GW did it?

I personally love the "new" Harpy art that is a really bad photoshop of the old picture with color!

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Even writing from memory, and assuming it was a drone commander, I don't know where those extra 90 points go.
Assuming the Broadsides and firewarriors had team leaders, there is still 60 points unaccounted for.

There isn't anything that he could put on the Hammerhead that would help if he was just going to castle it.

I just looked up the game. Buffmander (with no pure tide chip) with marker drones. Railgun broadsides with velocity trackers and drones (109pts each!), 105pts wasted on stim injectors, playing under points and gigantic LOS blocking terrain in non standard points. Beating up on Noobs doesn't count as evidence. Not to mention the illegal play of outflanking with the alpha warrior. The kroot moving up, knowing there is 13 stealers, and target the tyrannofex? Are you dumb? They aren't even sniper kroot. The riptides not moving away from the stealers is just mind boggling.

The fact all these terrible choices happened and the Tau still won. So what battle report are these Nid players reading?

bodazoka wrote:
So tournament's allow TauDar, Farsight bomb, Screamer Star, Jet Seer Council, and 2++ but not double force org...

What double force org shenanigans could be that bad compared to the above?

1999 + 1 Is a left over from 6th dropping before a large tournament which didn't have time to adjust...

Ovesastar and 3 to 6 skyrays would be where I start. Nids wouldn't have a hope of winning short of making the table look like castle fething grey skull.

 Ravenous D wrote:


Ovesastar and 3 to 6 skyrays would be where I start. Nids wouldn't have a hope of winning short of making the table look like castle fething grey skull.

Tau already can get an Ovesastar and 4 Skyrays in a single FOC, double FOC doesn't change anything.