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2014/01/16 23:58:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
badula wrote: please i'm a noob tell me i this manouver is possible or breaks some rules:
i call massive deep strike...
at turn 2 1 lictors deepstrikes first
then you place a trygon prime armed with miasma cannon and you shoot with the 2 weapons (maybe on big ones to soften up)
then comes a mawloc with TFTD
then another one (maybe this is not needed due to the 6 inches)
then full unit of warriors or devilgants comes from the hole of the trigon (i thought of warriors due to the difficulty of placing 30 gants in a 6" radius)!
so that's it
the big question is can i use the pheromone trail rule right after i've deepstriked a non scattering lictor?
i've thought of this strategy watching some tau fights with them all clustered at the border if this works it could deal a MASSIVE damage.... let me know
Lictors' trail only works if they were on the table at the beginning of the turn (so didn't come from reserves).
You also have to roll for reserves for all these, which could mean the trygon doesn't come in but your units you wanted in the tunnel do and have to walk on the boar from your table edge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/16 23:59:14
2014/01/17 00:23:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
The problem is, you don't choose when your deepstriking units arrive (you roll) so it is very hard to predict and likely won't come in staggered how you want it.
2014/01/17 00:43:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
roxor08 wrote: This might interest some folks, I was discussing with RiTides in his list thread regarding dakkafexen and how to increase their durability.
I just thought another super cheesey way to give your Fexs cover:
2 x 2 units of Carnifex w/ TL devouerers (1 with Regen)
Position them like so: V=Venomthrope (hopefully in a bastion or at the least behind an ADL), C1=Carnifex brood 1, C2=Carnifex brood 2, Cr=Carnifex with regen, X=empty space
With this positioning keeping at least 1 model in the Carnifex units within 6" of the Venomthrope, you can claim a 3+ coversave for the unit. You'll catch the unsuspecting (lazy) opponent who chooses not to focus fire by surprise. Additionally, if your opponent remembers to focus fire, you still can get the 5+ coversave AND the following turns rotate the fexes around to regen back those wounds like so:
If you include a bastion and embark the Venomthrope, you've got a unit that can really control the board.
Fexes will/should have (if done properly) a 3+/3+Cv/5+ FnP/4+ regen. That's a tough but to crack!!
Doesn't each model in the brood have to maintain unit coherency at 2"? I don't see how that's possible.
Yes, my diagram is assuming you are following all of the coherency rules. I never indicated that the "X's" were equal to an inch....They are just a place holder to help give relativity to the positioning between the models.
Still the principles should apply.
Focus fire completely ruins this strategy, just focus on the guy out front until he is dead then switch units as the other unit now has no screen.
As to the Doom and wishful thinking, unless he comes with his one form of deep strike he will still suck even if he doesn't change at all which I doubt. Has anyone ever had consistent success using the doom footslogging?
As to the comments by Eldercaveman about chapterhouse, your facts are off and I suggest reading through the lawsuit thread rather then muddy the waters here. It doesn't work the way your suggesting. I do think they wanted to cut back on rules without models, but I am thinking it has more to do with production costs and model development as to whether it was dropped. I read that GW is reaching it's ceiling on making these kits due to cost, that's why you see so many dual kits these days, and less per release.
Except focus fire will just reduce your claim to a Cover save to a 5+ instead of a 3+ Because shrouded is still in effect. With feel no pain and regen, that front carnifex is still pretty resilient.
That's all well and good, it also assumes they aren't shooting you with an ignores cover weapon too...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/17 00:55:19
2014/01/17 00:45:00
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
After some testing at home I have some ideas to share:
3 Harpys are cheaper than 3 Dakkafexes, 3 Maulocs are also cheaper than 3 Dakkafexes, spawn the same kind of force is always the way to go.... vehicles, infantery, flyers... MCs !!!
Basically 10 MC, 5 of them FMC, 60 gaunts, 4 Synapse nodes and nothing that really need it You reserve the 3 Maulocs and sometimes 1 of the Tervigons. Comm Array make the magic for you.
That makes 53 wounds of MCs witch we all know is pretty hard to down specially when they are pressing you hard.
"Maximun Threat Overload" I like the name, this is my view as an old hardass with grey hair in my balls of the most competitive list we can do atm.
Criticism please.
2014/01/17 01:19:05
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
HandsNFeetFace wrote: apologies if this was already stated, but I am a bit curious about something.
Let's say I am using Deathleaper as my Warlord and I roll Synaptic Lynchpin?!
I wish his IB was Hunt, at least that way the "does not effect models in units of 1" wouldn't affect it. Even more than that, rolling a 6 doesn't even benefit him as he already has stealth.
2014/01/17 06:21:32
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
I just feel like 120 genestealers would be a nightmare to face! (and move lol)
Another fun idea:
Use 180 hormagaunts, with flyrants for synapse and some venomthropes for cover. Hide the 'thropes behind a bastion (with a zoan for their synapse), and conga line your gaunts back to the bastion so they get shrouded. The squads of gaunts themselves would interlock to give each other a 3+ cover save, or you could have a sacrificial one in front. They won't have enough markelights to wipe you all out in the 2 turns it will take to get there. And if your opponent doesn't have stuff that ignores cover, it's gonna suck. Fill any extra points with fexes, alternatively you could substitute primes attached to your fex squads for the flyrants.
At just under 2" coherency, that many guants will take up 6.6 square feet of the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/17 06:23:00
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2014/01/17 06:34:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
I just feel like 120 genestealers would be a nightmare to face! (and move lol)
Another fun idea:
Use 180 hormagaunts, with flyrants for synapse and some venomthropes for cover. Hide the 'thropes behind a bastion (with a zoan for their synapse), and conga line your gaunts back to the bastion so they get shrouded. The squads of gaunts themselves would interlock to give each other a 3+ cover save, or you could have a sacrificial one in front. They won't have enough markelights to wipe you all out in the 2 turns it will take to get there. And if your opponent doesn't have stuff that ignores cover, it's gonna suck. Fill any extra points with fexes, alternatively you could substitute primes attached to your fex squads for the flyrants.
At just under 2" coherency, that many guants will take up 6.6 square feet of the table.
And imagine the domino effect, when one of them falls over...
And how quick do you propose playing a game with 180 Gaunts, ensuring they are 2" apart all the time, and inter mingling the units to ensure cover saves, and not forgetting which models are in which unit?
Sandokann wrote: After some testing at home I have some ideas to share:
3 Harpys are cheaper than 3 Dakkafexes, 3 Maulocs are also cheaper than 3 Dakkafexes, spawn the same kind of force is always the way to go.... vehicles, infantery, flyers... MCs !!!
Basically 10 MC, 5 of them FMC, 60 gaunts, 4 Synapse nodes and nothing that really need it You reserve the 3 Maulocs and sometimes 1 of the Tervigons. Comm Array make the magic for you.
That makes 53 wounds of MCs witch we all know is pretty hard to down specially when they are pressing you hard.
"Maximun Threat Overload" I like the name, this is my view as an old hardass with grey hair in my balls of the most competitive list we can do atm.
Criticism please.
Very nice list. I really like it. Very Maximum Threat Overload indeed!
I just feel like 120 genestealers would be a nightmare to face! (and move lol)
Another fun idea:
Use 180 hormagaunts, with flyrants for synapse and some venomthropes for cover. Hide the 'thropes behind a bastion (with a zoan for their synapse), and conga line your gaunts back to the bastion so they get shrouded. The squads of gaunts themselves would interlock to give each other a 3+ cover save, or you could have a sacrificial one in front. They won't have enough markelights to wipe you all out in the 2 turns it will take to get there. And if your opponent doesn't have stuff that ignores cover, it's gonna suck. Fill any extra points with fexes, alternatively you could substitute primes attached to your fex squads for the flyrants.
At just under 2" coherency, that many guants will take up 6.6 square feet of the table.
Interesting idea, but a pure horde army just isn't viable. Take out the flyrant and whatever synapse in the army and the gribblies go crazy. Moreover, they can't hurt any tanks at all. Take out synapse and you can just tank shock all game.
Duke_Mantis wrote: In heavy support im torn between double exocrine + triple carnifex or double exocrine + rupture tyrannofex...
p.s- bought two exocrines so im using them dammit :p
Personally, I'm hesitant to run more than one exocrine. Volume of shots is IMO what will win games for tyranids, but give it a try and let us know how they do.
I'd recommend that you magnetize it if possible so that you can run either the exocrine or the haruspex.
And how quick do you propose playing a game with 180 Gaunts, ensuring they are 2" apart all the time, and inter mingling the units to ensure cover saves, and not forgetting which models are in which unit?
I am thinking of starting a small Tyranid force but am a little unsure how to arm things.
My concept for the force is lots of big guys dropping lots of pie plates!
Sticking to 1000 points to get me started I was thinking of :
Tyrant strangle cannon lash whip and bonesword. 200
2 guards. 100
2 units of 3 Warriors barbed strangler and deathspitters and rend claws. 250
2 x carnifexes stranglethorn cannon and devourers. 300
Not quite sure where else to go with this as the core. Maybe a venom? The Tyrant and guard seems a huge point sink at this level, could I run a prime at 1000 point level?
Are fexes with strangle and devourers a bad idea? Seems like they would work well together to me but no on else is mentioning them?
Feel free to tell me if this is a horrible starting point as I don't want to waste my time with this idea if it will not work!
Tremble
2014/01/17 13:36:33
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Tremble wrote: I am thinking of starting a small Tyranid force but am a little unsure how to arm things.
My concept for the force is lots of big guys dropping lots of pie plates!
Sticking to 1000 points to get me started I was thinking of :
Tyrant strangle cannon lash whip and bonesword. 200
2 guards. 100
2 units of 3 Warriors barbed strangler and deathspitters and rend claws. 250
2 x carnifexes stranglethorn cannon and devourers. 300
Not quite sure where else to go with this as the core. Maybe a venom? The Tyrant and guard seems a huge point sink at this level, could I run a prime at 1000 point level?
Are fexes with strangle and devourers a bad idea? Seems like they would work well together to me but no on else is mentioning them?
Feel free to tell me if this is a horrible starting point as I don't want to waste my time with this idea if it will not work!
Tremble
1st thing I'd do is stop mixing assault and gun upgrades. If you want assault and shooting with Tyranids, it's best to do it with different units...think of bugs like Aspect Warriors in that respect.
I think the devourer is a little costly for some pie plate MCs...now since keeping the Scytals or LW/BS isn't too worth it, I might consider the super cheap deathspitters. Deathspitters give you about 1/2 the damage of a devourer for about 1/3 the cost, while S5 is very different than S6, when you're not running 2 devourers, the value of being S6 quickly depreciates.
I keep playing Warriors over and over...and they are supposed to be a shooty unit...I'd lose your combat upgrades, adrenals can still be used here for Turn 1/2 runs, but that depends on the rest of the list.
Personally, I am just running 3 Warriors with a Strangler...costs as much as 2 Zoeys, provides synapse, is fairly hearty if kept at 36" range, and is scoring.
For a blast theme list, you should also consider exocrines, mawlocs, and harpies...and biovores...definitely biovores.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/17 13:44:45
And how quick do you propose playing a game with 180 Gaunts, ensuring they are 2" apart all the time, and inter mingling the units to ensure cover saves, and not forgetting which models are in which unit?
Same way I do with spawned Termagant units.
Magnets in their bases for storage, throw a painted 1" steel washer underneath them. Magnet holds the washer there, washer makes model more stable, can see colored lip around the base. Just need a few different colors of washers (which is like $5 for 100 and a few minutes with red/green/blue/white/yellow/purple paint)
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2014/01/17 13:44:27
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams
I dunno, I think paying 8pts a head for really fragile guys that still need a synapse babysitter is a bit much. I'm warming up to the idea of units with 20 Fleshborers and 10 Devilgaunts. 80pts cheaper and while the firepower is reduced casualties from non-barrage are much more bearable points wise.
I don't think I'd want to outflank though, with Synapse being what it is I think as much as possible the army needs to be kept together in a single hammer blow. If Genestealers were better I'd maybe use them for outflanking but not gaunts. Warriors might work assuming your opponent is packing the level of S8 firepower to smash them to pieces after they arrive.
Sandokann wrote: After some testing at home I have some ideas to share:
3 Harpys are cheaper than 3 Dakkafexes, 3 Maulocs are also cheaper than 3 Dakkafexes, spawn the same kind of force is always the way to go.... vehicles, infantery, flyers... MCs !!!
Basically 10 MC, 5 of them FMC, 60 gaunts, 4 Synapse nodes and nothing that really need it You reserve the 3 Maulocs and sometimes 1 of the Tervigons. Comm Array make the magic for you.
That makes 53 wounds of MCs witch we all know is pretty hard to down specially when they are pressing you hard.
"Maximun Threat Overload" I like the name, this is my view as an old hardass with grey hair in my balls of the most competitive list we can do atm.
Criticism please.
Looks like a fun list to play against
I say this as a infantry heavy marine player, I think the two armies would shoot the bejesus out of each other before the inevitable mega melee, and it would be one hell of a good time for both
10-15K (way too many to point up)
4K
2014/01/17 14:14:13
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Dunklezahn wrote: I'm warming up to the idea of units with 20 Fleshborers and 10 Devilgaunts.
Good catch...but I'd swap that and outflank them...10Fleshborers, and 20 Devourers should kill reliably kill 11-12 Fire Warriors when they come in...which is a pretty good loadout without being overkill and wasting points.
Good catch...but I'd swap that and outflank them...10Fleshborers, and 20 Devourers should kill reliably kill 11-12 Fire Warriors when they come in...which is a pretty good loadout without being overkill and wasting points.
I can see that working, if you are outflanking you are gonna take less fire on the way so you can afford more killers and less meat shield.
My guys will be scuttling round the Tyrant so are gonna catch more grief on the way into range.
An assault Prime is an expensive way to keep them in line, are you planning on running a Flyrant? He could always swoop over and cover them if need be and then you haven't spent more points on the unit.
Good catch...but I'd swap that and outflank them...10Fleshborers, and 20 Devourers should kill reliably kill 11-12 Fire Warriors when they come in...which is a pretty good loadout without being overkill and wasting points.
I can see that working, if you are outflanking you are gonna take less fire on the way so you can afford more killers and less meat shield.
My guys will be scuttling round the Tyrant so are gonna catch more grief on the way into range.
An assault Prime is an expensive way to keep them in line, are you planning on running a Flyrant? He could always swoop over and cover them if need be and then you haven't spent more points on the unit.
But an assault prime also forces counterassault units to back off, and has 30 ablative wounds on his way in to wrecking some face.
My Prime is (LW/BS, Scytals, Toxin Sacs) though I am considering losing the Toxin and taking the Miasma Cannon to keep in tone with the Termagants.
2500pt
2000pt
3000pt 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
10-15K (way too many to point up)
