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Does anyone think that regeneration is worth it on a flyrant? With its mobility, it could be useful.

 AdeptSister wrote:
Does anyone think that regeneration is worth it on a flyrant? With its mobility, it could be useful.

Personally I only throw Regen on walkrants with guard...so you can choose when you take the wounds and how many...or on tyrannos who can take the pain. It's also not bad on a single fex in a brood if you know how to rotate the brood through the game or play a LoS game via Prime.

Exocrines are debateable depending on what else is in the list, and Trygons that start on the board have merit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Generally if you're taking one wound with a flyrant you're taking more...and then its often too late to regenerate in my experience.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 jifel wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

Most Psykers won't be alone, however, except perhaps Nid psykers and Daemons. Unfortunately, Daemons (and Fearless Nids) are immune to pinning.

Those Grey Knights though...

SitW + The Horror is pretty hilarious on Seer Councils too. Especially on Jetbike-mounted ones. How fast do you move? Not anymore!

Bikes can't be pinned. Try again.

And good Seer Councils are Fearless thanks to the Shard of Anaris.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 jifel wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

Most Psykers won't be alone, however, except perhaps Nid psykers and Daemons. Unfortunately, Daemons (and Fearless Nids) are immune to pinning.

Those Grey Knights though...

SitW + The Horror is pretty hilarious on Seer Councils too. Especially on Jetbike-mounted ones. How fast do you move? Not anymore!

Bikes can't be pinned. Try again.

And good Seer Councils are Fearless thanks to the Shard of Anaris.

90% of a good seer council is LD5 anyways against a decent bug player.

I never get the argument that GW price models to sell new kits. I can understand them changing the prices on things in an army in order to make shure it is not the same old mach ups (and new kits would be included in this). However if there intension was to sell pyrovores would it not at some point be worth playing with?

If the Tervigon is less popular now they'll still probably sell a lot of the kit if the Tfex becomes more popular due to point reduction.

So far my biggest problem is that I struggle to make a competitive list that doesn't involve fortifications. Makes me feel a little put off. However they give big boosts to many of Nid's weaknesses.

So many Nid batteries and redoubts are being built while I type this it is a little scary.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
If the Tervigon is less popular now they'll still probably sell a lot of the kit if the Tfex becomes more popular due to point reduction.

dont forget the price reduction and point reduction of regular fexs! haha

 ductvader wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 jifel wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

Most Psykers won't be alone, however, except perhaps Nid psykers and Daemons. Unfortunately, Daemons (and Fearless Nids) are immune to pinning.

Those Grey Knights though...

SitW + The Horror is pretty hilarious on Seer Councils too. Especially on Jetbike-mounted ones. How fast do you move? Not anymore!

Bikes can't be pinned. Try again.

And good Seer Councils are Fearless thanks to the Shard of Anaris.

90% of a good seer council is LD5 anyways against a decent bug player.

Wait, warlocks are Ld6? That's worse than basic FWs.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 jifel wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

Most Psykers won't be alone, however, except perhaps Nid psykers and Daemons. Unfortunately, Daemons (and Fearless Nids) are immune to pinning.

Those Grey Knights though...

SitW + The Horror is pretty hilarious on Seer Councils too. Especially on Jetbike-mounted ones. How fast do you move? Not anymore!

Bikes can't be pinned. Try again.

And good Seer Councils are Fearless thanks to the Shard of Anaris.

90% of a good seer council is LD5 anyways against a decent bug player.

Wait, warlocks are Ld6? That's worse than basic FWs.

Ld8. The -3 SitW puts it to Ld5. Spiritseers are Ld9 and Farseers 10.

 The Shadow wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 jifel wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

Most Psykers won't be alone, however, except perhaps Nid psykers and Daemons. Unfortunately, Daemons (and Fearless Nids) are immune to pinning.

Those Grey Knights though...

SitW + The Horror is pretty hilarious on Seer Councils too. Especially on Jetbike-mounted ones. How fast do you move? Not anymore!

Bikes can't be pinned. Try again.

And good Seer Councils are Fearless thanks to the Shard of Anaris.

90% of a good seer council is LD5 anyways against a decent bug player.

Wait, warlocks are Ld6? That's worse than basic FWs.

Ld8. The -3 SitW puts it to Ld5. Spiritseers are Ld9 and Farseers 10.

Oh, thought sitw was just -1, silly me.

Ebay will do a brisk business in EXTRA Tervigons soon. hehehehe. People only really need ONE.

I have not done extensive testing yet Jancoren. But I am not really impressed with a lot of units. I see Flyrant, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes and Exocrines as the best of the lot right now. I tested Crones and in two games they killed very little. I do not omagine haroeies will do much better. They are just to fragile. Now I guess a single Terv and 30 Termagants are not bad troops. But so far nothing has inspired me to create an out-of the-box list.

Don't forget Biovores, Biovores are awesome.

 felixcat wrote:
I have not done extensive testing yet Jancoren. But I am not really impressed with a lot of units. I see Flyrant, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes and Exocrines as the best of the lot right now. I tested Crones and in two games they killed very little. I do not omagine haroeies will do much better. They are just to fragile. Now I guess a single Terv and 30 Termagants are not bad troops. But so far nothing has inspired me to create an out-of the-box list.

Well to be honest I am not even sure i recognize yet what is in the box through this miasma of negativity. Lol. I hear very little i nthe way of true tactica at all. Just this back and forth you see here.

As for Hive Crones, they are there for anti-air, that's all. Seems to me that you'll never want three and always want to reserve them.

I like the Exocrines. Yes indeedy. So many armies would HATE seeing three of those later in the game after being whittled a bit. they could be your closers. Range is a bit short so it might be a dangerous play to puit them out there right away but any enemy unit foolish enough to cross that line? Mm mm mm. Lots of units who dont want any o that.

I'm going to talk to my Tyranid buddies in depth to see what is working for them so far in games, and how they are deploying. I think there is definitely some importance to that in all armies. I mean hell, I am finally learning to use a Night Lords list (you know, the Codex everyone said was...well they said the same things about it as the Tyranids!). I learned through games that I could definitely beat Mechdar (repeatedly) with an assault army more easily by essentially deploying the opposite way I normally do. That was quite an interesting revalation. I mean I lost an entire 340 point squad of Raptors to start the game when he seized the initiative. Blew the entire unit clean off the board. Just gone. Killed a Rhino as well. Final score was 14-3. =) Go Chaos.

So if I can do that, Tyranids can win. Just gotta figure it out. It's early yet.

Tyranids can definitely win, they're not particularly strong but a good list can contend with other mid-tier codices, especially ones that will have trouble taking down lots of monstrous creatures.

I like the Exocrines. Yes indeedy. So many armies would HATE seeing three of those later in the game after being whittled a bit. they could be your closers. Range is a bit short so it might be a dangerous play to puit them out there right away but any enemy unit foolish enough to cross that line? Mm mm mm. Lots of units who dont want any o that.

Lol, well, at 510 points, I'm sure that would be a nasty clean up force. I'm pretty almost anything at 510 points would be considered a nasty endgame force.

They gotta survive to the endgame, though, and preferably your opponent will have less than 500 points. At 5 wounds armor 3, that isn't easy. Also, you are going to need some synapse, and most likely some troops. So yeah, if you make it to the endgame with say, 800 points, you are doing great!

Frontloading damage is a way better strategy that holding back. Exocrine are ok, but not awesome, at doing that. especially if they want to avoid being killed in the interim. Exocrine are much more like early gambit troops, hopefully you can kill enough of the enemy with them before they die.

Mysticdog wrote:

I like the Exocrines. Yes indeedy. So many armies would HATE seeing three of those later in the game after being whittled a bit. they could be your closers. Range is a bit short so it might be a dangerous play to puit them out there right away but any enemy unit foolish enough to cross that line? Mm mm mm. Lots of units who dont want any o that.

Lol, well, at 510 points, I'm sure that would be a nasty clean up force. I'm pretty almost anything at 510 points would be considered a nasty endgame force.

They gotta survive to the endgame, though, and preferably your opponent will have less than 500 points. At 5 wounds armor 3, that isn't easy. Also, you are going to need some synapse, and most likely some troops. So yeah, if you make it to the endgame with say, 800 points, you are doing great!

Frontloading damage is a way better strategy that holding back. Exocrine are ok, but not awesome, at doing that. especially if they want to avoid being killed in the interim. Exocrine are much more like early gambit troops, hopefully you can kill enough of the enemy with them before they die.

I second this...with him in my recent games, you need other forward pushing massed T4 wounds or MCs in order to protect the exocrine. I personally use fleeting carnifexes to pull fire off him and allow him to do his business.

I don't personally see any list needing 3. The exocrine is a fantastic creature for everything he does...if he is not a priority target.

Tyrannos, Harpies, Crones, Raveners, Shrikes, Tervigons, Carnifexes, Trygons are all great units for relieving pressure on him.

Trygon Prime with Reaper is a boss !!

Mysticdog wrote:

Frontloading damage is a way better strategy that holding back. Exocrine are ok, but not awesome, at doing that. especially if they want to avoid being killed in the interim. Exocrine are much more like early gambit troops, hopefully you can kill enough of the enemy with them before they die.

Almost every army i build is played for the endgame. So front loading damage is rarely the way I win. Which is why ideas like this appeal to me. The movement phase is entirely underrated as a way to win.

@ Jancoran

What do you mean by "Building an army for the end game" and what Tyranid unit's so you think would match that description?

You certainly need a few tricks up your sleeve. Units coming in from reserve are not 'front loaded' So a Mawloc would fit the description. Outflankers would fit the description. You need some of these units. The key to any good army is various modes of deployment. As an example ... I would always run my Tyrants with Hive Commander. I can then choose what to outflank. Take a list like this ...

Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers 230
Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers; Hive Commander 250

1x Venomthrope 45
1x Venomthrope 45

Tervigon - Miasma Cannon 220
30 Termagants - 11 Devourers 165
5 Tyranid Warriors - Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands, Barbed Strangler 205

Exocrine 170
Exocrine 170

You have a lot of options here in actually as how you wish to deploy and how aggressive you want to be. You have plenty of wounds on the table if you just want to outflank the termagants for instance. You have both cc and shooting in the list. You have tricks you cam play with reserve and you don't need to be overly aggressive ( against some lists it just is not a good policy).

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Trygon Prime with Reaper is a boss !!

How so? I considered using him, but I decided to swap him and an exocrine for a harpy and biovores.

bodazoka wrote:
@ Jancoran

What do you mean by "Building an army for the end game" and what Tyranid unit's so you think would match that description?

This is a harder question to answer on a forum. Felixcat kind of knows how I build them but its more of a tactical view to list building instead of a building block view that is typical.

In a building block view, you itemize units by their "kills per point" and various damage output scenarios. Building block lists are Stelek type lists where you see "triple anything that has awesome damage potential". There will be a nod in there to defensive measures like anti-air, and such, but for the most part its an MSU style of deploying the most powerful units possible and then outputting damage early and often.

And that all sounds very good. In fact, it's totally legit.

The Endgame is a little more subtle way to play. you tend to use movement as a weapon and timing as a trap. Infiltrators, Outflankers, Deep strikers and Scouting units will all figure prominently in this type of warfare and the idea is to isolate and kill the enemy strategically rather than trying to kill a MUCH as you can. You identify WHERE and WHEN you can strike to win the game and then cut the enemy off from affecting the outcome. So you win with movement and timing, attacks the enemy cannot stop and attacks that they wont choose to stop.

I can't explain it a LOT better than that. But in that kind of a fight, you are very easily witholding 1/2 your troops from normal deployment, and choosing wisely the units you want the enemy to come for, preferably things they really really NEED to come for.

So in the case of Tyranids, as Felixcat said, I'd prefer a Hive Commander also to maximize my deployment options. I might prefer mawlocs and even some GeneStealers. The Hive Crone as i have mentioned makes sense. Perhaps a Tervigon who can protect her clutch until needed at a strategically important moment. Another unit that works well is the Biovores. Their ability to inflict damage safely makes the enemy very keen on shutting them up, lures the enemy into far flung pockets to silence them and then those pockets are much weaker on their own and can be taken down more easily, even by lesser units.

I dont want to make it sound mystical. it's not. But I have shown it to be more than effective as a tactic and Tyranids do have the ability to build an army like that.

That is a super interesting way to look at a list, thank you for giving me that insight. I fall into the damage output category without even realizing it! you just naturally tend to move towards the unit's that provide the most Dakka!

I will certainly have a look at that and see if I can utilize some of what you are talking about.

The more I list build using the new book I am coming to a similar style to what I was using at the end of fifth edition. Reserves are becoming my first thought and tricking my opponent into thinking I'm putting pressure in one area when really by turn three everything will be in his face and coming out of nowhere. Even when you had to take extra wounds from fearless it was worth tying units up in combat with fearless models for eternities. So far I have locked down Riptides, Farsights, Ridiculous level of power Black Legion DP, and all kinds of troops on objectives just with my gaunts. Largely my MCs have become the garbage men, incapable of taking any serious threat head on but more than happy to soak fire and take opportunity situations as they squeak through my wall of bodies. Another reason why more and more they are being armed with guns.

I'm starting to lean away from venomthropes only because ignore cover and barrage style weapons are part and partial to competitive opponents and they just get target prioritized and killed, normally for first blood. This actually opens up space for the return of hive guard or maybe a brood or two of lictors to go along with my mawlocs. I know the fortification and 'thrope combo is going to be suggested tirelessly as the be all end all for competitive lists but I have been taking a crack at some of my metas better generals and seeing good results with a combined arms approach that attacks from multiple vectors.

I played a 1000 point game against my friend's Space Marines army and thought I'd share some discoveries and thoughts on the units I used and special rules. The mission was Big Guns and Vanguard.

Instinctive Behavior influenced a grand total of one play in the game- moving my lone Biovore forward a bit to stay in Synapse range. It's really not that big a deal at all as far as I can see. The Warlord Table and psychic powers are very cool. I don't miss Biomancy one bit.

I ran two single Zoanthropes and they were great, one got The Horror (which didn't end up having much effect as I was Warp Blasting instead) but Onslaught was great when cast on my Carnifex Brood. Speaking of which...

I ran a two Carnifex brood, Stranglethorn Cannons, nothing else. They were awesome, doing a fair bit of damage in shooting and then eating two squads of Marines with the help of...

Hormagaunts! These guys were key to victory. They are FAST and need to be dealt with when they are supported by Synapse and therefore Fearless. Best hundred points I've spent in ages.

Heavy Venom Cannon is a very dangerous weapon, especially on a Tyrant. It's lost the nerf to tank-popping and that makes a HUGE difference.

The Biovore was ok, but the marine armor saves were just killer all game against the mines. It probably did a dozen or more wounds but I don't recall it killing more than one model.

I tried a deep striking Spore Mine Cluster and I'm undecided if it's good yet. It did force an unfavorable move or two from my opponent and I am tempted to say it's going to be a great sucker punch in certain match ups.

The game ended turn 5 with a concession. I had First Blood, and was very comfortably looking at Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker and at least two of three Objectives, plus one more from an Archaeotech device in my back field.

 McNinja wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Trygon Prime with Reaper is a boss !!

How so? I considered using him, but I decided to swap him and an exocrine for a harpy and biovores.

+3I, Shred & +1S coupled with AP2 since it's an MC. Plus any roll of a 6 to wound is Instant Death. Great combo.

 felixcat wrote:
I have not done extensive testing yet Jancoren. But I am not really impressed with a lot of units. I see Flyrant, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes and Exocrines as the best of the lot right now. I tested Crones and in two games they killed very little. I do not omagine haroeies will do much better. They are just to fragile. Now I guess a single Terv and 30 Termagants are not bad troops. But so far nothing has inspired me to create an out-of the-box list.

we are still exploring our options. But we are already seeing some really good new possibilities; last night our flyrants both had Warp Blast, and combined with the improved BS, gave a lot more damage output. We warp-blasted the warlord into oblivion, which was great fun. Starting to get over the loss of Biomancy.

We've had great results from two crones, OK results from the crone and harpy combination. They're not bargains, but they do keep the pressure on and open up a lot of opportunities. Overall, if your taste is for flying circus lists, maybe the codex has improved... perhaps the rumoured flyer dataslate would make judgements less equivocal, gargoyles as troops would suit us to the ground, obviously we hope for the same re shrikes. Plus we like dakkafexes, and the opportunity to run more , especially if they'er available as troops would be a big benefit.

Our mawloc won us the game, last night, too... scattered too far for TftD, but killed a couple of units in assault, bizarrely. I think the Mawloc is our new Doom of Malantai; same cost, same scare factor, not reliable but great for disruption

I'm trying to think of a concept of fast and close 'nid deployment to the opponent's side, so a list entirely of deep strikers, flyers, and infiltrators at 1850-

HQ-

1x Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms - 230 Points

1x Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms- 230 Points

Troops-

5x Genestealer- 70 Points

5x Genestealer- 70 Points

5x Genestealer- 70 Points

5x Genestealer- 70 Points

5x Genestealer- 70 Points

5x Genestealer- 70 Points

Elite-

Fast Attack-

30x Gargoyles, Toxin Sacs- 240 Points

Harpy- Heavy Venom Cannon, Cluster Spines- 155 Points

Harpy- Heavy Venom Cannon, Cluster Spines- 155 Points

Heavy Support-

Mawloc- 140 Points

Mawloc- 140 Points

Mawloc- 140 Points