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Harpy vs. Gargoyles.
Both fill a similar role, Anti-infantry / fast / draw fire away from other units.
It feels like Harpy with a HVC. TL + High strength = a good match.
However, for the same cost I can run 23 and 1/3 Gargoyles.
or to expand it to full fast attack slots.
Harpy + HVC
Harpy + HVC
Harpy + HVC
vs
20 Gargoyles
30 Gargoyles
20 Gargoyles

The harpy can damage armor a bit better, but the Gargoyles are a better tarpit.

I guess my question is: doesn't it seem like 70 Gargoyles are a lot more threatening than 3 Harpies? Is there an argument for a mix of both? What are the odds that each kill its points worth?

Ive not seen people advocating Harpies much anyways.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitsplitta wrote:
"Tervigon squads"?? A 30-strong squad of Tervi's would be an impressive sight.

I meant Termagaunt.

We've tried harpy/crone and two crones... much prefer the latter but too early to say for definite. Crone easily made back the points both times, not sure the harpy did much.

We're running 19 Gargoyles at the mo - they always die but I reckon they're even more crucial at the moment, to draw fire from the flyrants. The lack of pods has forced us into more flyers. Maybe that was the evil GW plan.

This is exactly what I meant when I said we were being shoehorned into certain constructs. I think we need to go outside the box.

I'm feeling having a small squad of infantry (Warriors, gants or gaunts) to make use of the Tervigons outflank could be good.

Alternatively, how would outflanking a 30-strong squad. Large footprint, easier to capture synapse.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
We've tried harpy/crone and two crones... much prefer the latter but too early to say for definite. Crone easily made back the points both times, not sure the harpy did much.

We're running 19 Gargoyles at the mo - they always die but I reckon they're even more crucial at the moment, to draw fire from the flyrants. The lack of pods has forced us into more flyers. Maybe that was the evil GW plan.

What kind of lists are you facing that Crones are being effective against? Flyers? Mech?

give an advice i've found that if buy a venom and biovore i could assemble a 1500 force like this

1x dakkaflyrant with hive commander old adversary regen
OOE

1 veno
1 zoa

30xterma
tervigon cluster spines and miasma cannon

1x hive crone

1x biovore
1x dakkafex with regen
1x exocrine

if you have some suggestions please i'd like to use what i have first so choose from the following leftovers:
40xhorma
1 box of new warriors
10 x gargoyles
1box of new hive guards
1xlictor


do you think it could be viable? I mean VIABLE so it could give some nice matches not superextraultramegapro, othewise i know you would suggest 2xflyrants!^^

mind also i have to paint ALL OF THEM so boyz over toyz is not as good as it sounds to me!^^

i was thinking of letting the tervigon flank....

 Iechine wrote:
So...about that Trygon and Reaper... Any thoughts?

I used a Trygon Prime + Reaper in a tourny last week and then again in a casual game two days ago. It's great if you can get into melee with a tough unit as it's likely to kill a Wraith Knight before it even gets a chance to strike with I7 + ID on 6's + rerolls to wound + 7 attacks on the charge and no armor saves. For me that's worth it because those and Melee Daemon armies are fairly common for me to see in my games. Getting it into CC is the problem as a wise opponent will usually avoid it like the plague and try to gun it down from a distance. Even that serves a purpose though with proper threat saturation.

Is it worth it's points? Depends on what force you face BTH. The 3 Vendetta IG army at a 1250 limit will not care about it. With or without the Reaper the Trygon dies just the same to shooting, their troops die all the same in CC and it won't help you bring down any zooming flyers.

It will help you bust tanks, kill assault marines, Daemons, etc. so it depends on your meta, your style of play and your other unit selections.

All in all I'd say it ups his CC effectiveness by 0-50% depending on whats across the table from you. The question is do you really need to increase you Trygon Primes melee ability? Like I said, It's worth it for me but I can't answer that for you and that's a bit to many points to shrug off as 'extra'.

Why not swap the Harpies for Crones, save some points, and convert at least one squad of stealers to Lictors, so you can use Pheremone trail to DS your Mawlocs without scatter?

So I'm playing a UM drop pod list with added Tyrannic Vets in a couple of weeks and I'm wondering what sort of list is going to be best to avoid getting alpha striked off the table, bubble wrapping the big stuff to absorb the alpha, heavy with the flyers to be more out maneuverable, or going for a heavy reserve army and playing him at his own game?

 Abandon wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
So...about that Trygon and Reaper... Any thoughts?

I used a Trygon Prime + Reaper in a tourny last week and then again in a casual game two days ago. It's great if you can get into melee with a tough unit as it's likely to kill a Wraith Knight before it even gets a chance to strike with I7 + ID on 6's + rerolls to wound + 7 attacks on the charge and no armor saves. For me that's worth it because those and Melee Daemon armies are fairly common for me to see in my games. Getting it into CC is the problem as a wise opponent will usually avoid it like the plague and try to gun it down from a distance. Even that serves a purpose though with proper threat saturation.

Is it worth it's points? Depends on what force you face BTH. The 3 Vendetta IG army at a 1250 limit will not care about it. With or without the Reaper the Trygon dies just the same to shooting, their troops die all the same in CC and it won't help you bring down any zooming flyers.

It will help you bust tanks, kill assault marines, Daemons, etc. so it depends on your meta, your style of play and your other unit selections.

All in all I'd say it ups his CC effectiveness by 0-50% depending on whats across the table from you. The question is do you really need to increase you Trygon Primes melee ability? Like I said, It's worth it for me but I can't answer that for you and that's a bit to many points to shrug off as 'extra'.

I think Toxin Sacs is about all you need for most of your troubles here.

I realise that the Heavy slot is rammed with nice choices but I'm surprised to see less use of the Tfex.
175 points for T6 6W 2+ save is just a steal.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
I realise that the Heavy slot is rammed with nice choices but I'm surprised to see less use of the Tfex.
175 points for T6 6W 2+ save is just a steal.

It's a great buy...personally I think the meta is just playing with synergy and fun new ways to run things.

The tyranno just does what he always did, but for about 30% cheaper.

I have a homemade tyranno that will be having an identity crisis...one game a tyranno...the next an exocrine...

I am also torn about what I want in my list:

Tyranofex, mawlock and exocrine are all exelently prised.

Mawlock is a good threat and very good at contesting objectives. Good vs power armour and terminators and cheap.

T-fex is very hard to put down, can take a torent flamer and another flamer.

The Exocrine can pop transports and it can kill space marines all day. I find that choise hard.

Carnifexes, biovores and trygons does not help.

When it comes to Heavy Support there are five good options and only 3 slots, so the Tyrannofex has a lot of competition.

The Tfex is great for making opponents target priority more difficult. The 2+ Sv means that the need to shoot their Lascannons (or similar) at him but MLs and Autocannons (or similar) are only good vs your 3+ Sv MCs. This has forced some opponents to split fire rather than focus all their heavy guns on 1 MC.

I dont think there are any auto includes for nids as so many choices influence each other (mainly due to synapse).


I would say that some disruption units are essential, if you deploy all your bugs in your DZ and hope to rush across the board you wont make it, with any list. Against a gun line it becomes a dice rolling contest, and against mobile shooting armies (nids biggest problem and the current meta favourites) you need pop up in the back field and make it harder for them to run away. Mawlocks are good at this.


Question: Am i right in thinking that 2 Hive tyrants can join one Guard unit? If you do use a walking Tyrant with guard a Flyrant would then be able to "hide" amongst then when needed. Im thinking a Swarmlord +3 Guard + Flyrant deathstar with mawlocs/ lictors. The disruption units come in turn 2 on a 2+ and the Flyrant can launch out to join them but is safe in the Guard unit before then.

Hive tyrants are given permission to Join tyrant guard units, but no such permission to leave. Since they are not IC's, your flyrant would be tied to that group until the tyrant guard were killed.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Hive tyrants are given permission to Join tyrant guard units, but no such permission to leave. Since they are not IC's, your flyrant would be tied to that group until the tyrant guard were killed.

Not always a bad thing if you need to land for the duration of the game...it does happen.

It's not a plan you want to bank on...but hey, taking swarmy and a flyrant is very plausible.

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Hive tyrants are given permission to Join tyrant guard units, but no such permission to leave. Since they are not IC's, your flyrant would be tied to that group until the tyrant guard were killed.

Not always a bad thing if you need to land for the duration of the game...it does happen.

It's not a plan you want to bank on...but hey, taking swarmy and a flyrant is very plausible.

I'm actually Ok with the idea. You can make a pretty tough deathstar with auto-pass look out sir to spread wounds around, with regen on the generic tyrant. Once the guard are finally down by turn 2 or 3, he springs forward with his wings and takes care of any stray flyers or AV10-11 tanks, while swarmlord owns the midfield in CC and buffs the rest of the army with his cunning tactics (preferred enemy/furious charge, etc). It could definitely work, but I just wanted to point out that if the enemy doesn't kill the 2-3 guards, they can't bust up into separate units (which means the enemy might not shoot at your synapse tank....hahaha, yeah right).

Even if all the Tyrant Guard die the Hive Tyrant and Swarmlord would still be joined to each other.

Also it wouldn't work anyway, only a single Tyrant/Swarmlord may join a unit of Tyrant Guard according the the Shieldwall special rule.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Hive tyrants are given permission to Join tyrant guard units, but no such permission to leave. Since they are not IC's, your flyrant would be tied to that group until the tyrant guard were killed.

Not always a bad thing if you need to land for the duration of the game...it does happen.

It's not a plan you want to bank on...but hey, taking swarmy and a flyrant is very plausible.

I'm actually Ok with the idea. You can make a pretty tough deathstar with auto-pass look out sir to spread wounds around, with regen on the generic tyrant. Once the guard are finally down by turn 2 or 3, he springs forward with his wings and takes care of any stray flyers or AV10-11 tanks, while swarmlord owns the midfield in CC and buffs the rest of the army with his cunning tactics (preferred enemy/furious charge, etc). It could definitely work, but I just wanted to point out that if the enemy doesn't kill the 2-3 guards, they can't bust up into separate units (which means the enemy might not shoot at your synapse tank....hahaha, yeah right).

Here's a question...what if two tyrants are joined to guard and they die? I don't have my book on me, but is there anything that allows the tyrants to even separate from each other?

...and would the guard get rage if just one attached tyrant died?

I don't have my book with me...

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Hive tyrants are given permission to Join tyrant guard units, but no such permission to leave. Since they are not IC's, your flyrant would be tied to that group until the tyrant guard were killed.

Not always a bad thing if you need to land for the duration of the game...it does happen.

It's not a plan you want to bank on...but hey, taking swarmy and a flyrant is very plausible.

I'm actually Ok with the idea. You can make a pretty tough deathstar with auto-pass look out sir to spread wounds around, with regen on the generic tyrant. Once the guard are finally down by turn 2 or 3, he springs forward with his wings and takes care of any stray flyers or AV10-11 tanks, while swarmlord owns the midfield in CC and buffs the rest of the army with his cunning tactics (preferred enemy/furious charge, etc). It could definitely work, but I just wanted to point out that if the enemy doesn't kill the 2-3 guards, they can't bust up into separate units (which means the enemy might not shoot at your synapse tank....hahaha, yeah right).

Here's a question...what if two tyrants are joined to guard and they die? I don't have my book on me, but is there anything that allows the tyrants to even separate from each other?

...and would the guard get rage if just one attached tyrant died?

I don't have my book with me...

I just looked it up and PrinceRaven above is correct - shieldwall only allows 1 tyrant to join a unit of tyrant guard. So no swarmy/flyrant deathstars then.

The fact still stands that you could take a flyrant with regen, and a tyranid prime with regen, and hook them both to a tyrant guard squad if you really wanted a tough brick that metamorphs into a mobile flyrant halfway through the game.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The fact still stands that you could take a flyrant with regen, and a tyranid prime with regen, and hook them both to a tyrant guard squad if you really wanted a tough brick that metamorphs into a mobile flyrant halfway through the game.

*just relived the "holy sh*t" moment during Pacific Rim when the Kaiju unfurled his wings and took off*

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The fact still stands that you could take a flyrant with regen, and a tyranid prime with regen, and hook them both to a tyrant guard squad if you really wanted a tough brick that metamorphs into a mobile flyrant halfway through the game.

*just relived the "holy sh*t" moment during Pacific Rim when the Kaiju unfurled his wings and took off*

I love re-enacting pacific rim when i vs my tau riptides vs my nidzilla lists. Trygon vs Riptide is a great battle.

Speaking of P. Rim it would be great to have some tyranids painted in fosfirlike colours like they do in that movie. Of course they would be better on a more dark bakground, not a green or white table.

Has anyone had success with Regeneration? It seems like a good buy if you are spending 200+ points on a model.

The more points you use in a game the worse regeneration is. If you played a 1000 point game regeneration would be ace.

I like it on a Tyrannofex. 2+ save, 6W, T6 with Regen. It's a MC that the opponent has to deal with, but it takes a lot of power to do that.

 Niiai wrote:
The more points you use in a game the worse regeneration is. If you played a 1000 point game regeneration would be ace.

I think it depends. I am planning to test a Hive Tyrant with regeneration and 3 Guards. first 3 wounds go to the Tyrant so he has something to regenerate. All other wounds would be spread equally around the Guard until everyone has just 1 HP.

MasterOfGaunts wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
The more points you use in a game the worse regeneration is. If you played a 1000 point game regeneration would be ace.

I think it depends. I am planning to test a Hive Tyrant with regeneration and 3 Guards. first 3 wounds go to the Tyrant so he has something to regenerate. All other wounds would be spread equally around the Guard until everyone has just 1 HP.

That's probably the best use of Regen...in situations where you can play some wound allocation games.

I think I'm going to try some Raveners this weekend. No one's really been talking about them, but they look interesting in a list with plenty of MCs. Beast movement is just plain sexy.