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 felixcat wrote:
Not a fan of your Tyrant ... honestly a Flyrant is one of the better AA units we have. I like the 2x TL devourer. And I use the same on my Carnis.

I will say, there is next to nil on flyers and FMCs in my meta, and I do have the tl quad icarus too.

Then you are good yo go ...

I have had massive success with my redoubt so far. Oddly enough I still run it with dbl flyrants. Mostly to allow me to keep control of the not so friendly skies.

I have not tried it with the battle cannon yet. I tend to need both Icarus cannons because of all of the flyers in my meta.

 Roci wrote:
I have had massive success with my redoubt so far. Oddly enough I still run it with dbl flyrants. Mostly to allow me to keep control of the not so friendly skies.

I have not tried it with the battle cannon yet. I tend to need both Icarus cannons because of all of the flyers in my meta.

Running one lascannon means the magos spirit becomes necessary.

Deshkar wrote:
6th Ed Tyranid Record at LVO:
WWW: 1
WWD: 1
WWL: 4

Be awesome if the generals would post up Battle Reports, even if they only had time to post up thier third round matchup (which at that point should be a guarenteed tough fight) it would make for a great read.

SHA games are hit and miss here. If I can use the rules, I take Magos as an auto include.

Triple flyers, flying circus and wraithwing are common for me to face so being able to put down two flyers in any turn is great. I did want to try the battle cannon because I'm starting to see more crons.. so more av13... and played two LR the other day...

 tetrisphreak wrote:


I would go with 2 Crone/1 Harpy. The vector strikes and tentaclids of the crone are great, and the drool cannon ignores cover - awesome. However, the huge base (5" oval, if not 6") means that to successfully vector strike a 1" infantry model you must begin movement within approx. 15" of the target unit to clear it. That's hard to do when the enemy is bogged down with lots of infantry models - this is where the Harpy comes in. Paired with a mawloc or biovores, the large blasts can really clear areas for the crones to swoop into and do their damage as well. Also, it is cheaper (though I recommend giving the harpy cluster spines for +15, as it adds another useful large blast to it's fusillade).

Thats true enough. But I can easily trade an HVC for a ST on one or both Tyrants if I'm up against infantry. I think it boils down to in a TAC situation the Crones are effective against anything, why a Harpy is stuck against Infantry only.

That's not true...crones suck against masses 3+ saves.

ruminator wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Durable, good for cleaning out troops, double templates don't care about cover saves, encourages your opponent to split their fire.

Opponent absolutely has to keep this away from his troops. Double flamer and then assault will destroy troop units and on Nids most durable platform. It will take a lot of shots to die and will be the focus if you march it forward straight at them - there is no distraction with wanting to shoot either in first turn; he will be running. 2+ armour and a cover save will make taking it's 6 wounds off very difficult and has potential for being a regen platform due to number of wounds. It's alll about target overload - if you have a pair of flyrants, a TFex, a tervigon and possibly a Mawloc/Crone or a Carnifex brood there is no way your opponenet can stop everything hitting their lines. If you can get say 5 out of 6 of your MCs into their deplyoment zone still alive (even if on 1 or 2 wounds) then game is generally then yours to lose ...

Hmmm, Always seemed not so useful to me but perhaps I've misjudged them. My usual 40K night is tomorrow and I don't think anyone will mind if I proxy them before I buy... what are the usual options people take on the Tyrannofex?

 Abandon wrote:

ruminator wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Durable, good for cleaning out troops, double templates don't care about cover saves, encourages your opponent to split their fire.

Opponent absolutely has to keep this away from his troops. Double flamer and then assault will destroy troop units and on Nids most durable platform. It will take a lot of shots to die and will be the focus if you march it forward straight at them - there is no distraction with wanting to shoot either in first turn; he will be running. 2+ armour and a cover save will make taking it's 6 wounds off very difficult and has potential for being a regen platform due to number of wounds. It's alll about target overload - if you have a pair of flyrants, a TFex, a tervigon and possibly a Mawloc/Crone or a Carnifex brood there is no way your opponenet can stop everything hitting their lines. If you can get say 5 out of 6 of your MCs into their deplyoment zone still alive (even if on 1 or 2 wounds) then game is generally then yours to lose ...

Hmmm, Always seemed not so useful to me but perhaps I've misjudged them. My usual 40K night is tomorrow and I don't think anyone will mind if I proxy them before I buy... what are the usual options people take on the Tyrannofex?

Stock acid spray + dessicator larvae or Shreddershard beetles...regeneration is up to you...that's all.

I like adrenal, regen and flesh outer. Bull rush it up the middle, get onslaught on it if you can.

I'll run three with regen, Thorax Swarms and AG glands for testing purposes. Thanks for the input

 Abandon wrote:
I'll run three with regen, Thorax Swarms and AG glands for testing purposes. Thanks for the input

Don't forget the second template...it's much more necessary than even regen.

Ok, so this is a recap of Tyranids at the LVO GT just this past weekend. I don't really know the lists, but I will tell you what I do know.


First off, new Tyranids went W23-L17-D2 to finish .575. That's very respectable. Eldar/Dark Eldar was the winningest army with .808 Win-Loss ratio.


Old Tyranids went W6-L4 (2 players only) to finish .600.


Top Tyranid player was Cooper Waddell (aka LaJollaGrad). He ended up 24th Overall with a 4-1 record, with his only loss going against Tau. BTW, Cooper is perhaps one of the best Tyranid players here on the West Coast. He is the only Tyranid player to have won a 2-day GT in recent memory (in 5th Edition).


2nd best Tyranid player was Team Zero Comp member Geoff Robinson (aka InControl of StarCraft fame), who ended up 31st. Geoff is actually fairly new to Warhammer and is the only top player to use the old Tyranids. He also went 4-1 with his only loss being against Goatboy's Daemons. He didn't play against Tau or Eldar.


Probably the Tyranid player who did the best was Allan Hernandez (aka Blackmoor), who finished 39th with 3-1-1. He had arguably the toughest matchups, with a draw against a vicious serpent-spam Mechdar list with 2 wraithknights and a win against Eldar+Tau in round #4. He finally lost to Seer Council Deldar played by the eventual winner of the the whole tournament, Alex Fennell.


Jay Woodcock, a member of DaBoyz, took 49th Overall with a 3-2 record. Jay is another top-notch Tyranid player who once made it to the Top 8 at Adepticon. He actually beat Tau, but lost to Necrons and Cooper's Tyranids.


Not far behind Jay was Pete Setchell from the Dice Abides. He ended up 52nd overall also with a 3-2 record. His 2 losses came at the hands of Eldar and, ironically, Cooper's Tyranids as well (yes, Cooper's bugs beat 2 other Tyranid armies).


Finally we have Vince Wiebert (aka Bigpig), finishing also with a 3-2 record and 59th overall. His 2 losses came against Eldar and Chaos Daemons.


Now some pictures of some nice bugs:


Jay Woodcock's beautiful Tyranids.


Chuck's bugs. He actually ran 1 Tyranid Prime for his HQ and no flyrants.

I hate to say it, but the best Nid player played 5 matches, beat another Nid player two times and then went 2W-1L vs non-Nid lists and in those 3 games never fought the armies with the highest win percentages (Eldar/DE).

Not saying he isn't a great player, but it sounds like he had an optimal draw. Even then one of the best Nid players bearly cracked the top 25.

Not filling me with warm fuzzies.

Cool beans. are there any lists of what the different players played?

 Gloomfang wrote:
I hate to say it, but the best Nid player played 5 matches, beat another Nid player two times and then went 2W-1L vs non-Nid lists and in those 3 games never fought the armies with the highest win percentages (Eldar/DE).

Not saying he isn't a great player, but it sounds like he had an optimal draw. Even then one of the best Nid players bearly cracked the top 25.

Not filling me with warm fuzzies.

So what were you expecting? Were you seriously expecting Tyranids to usurp Tau and Eldar as the top army? Let's be realistic here. Tyranids performed admirably for a so-called "underpowered" codex. Of the 11 Tyranid players in the tournament, 7 finished above average. The new Tyranids on the whole finished above average (.575), beating out armies like Dark Eldar (.523), IG (.558), Daemons (.538), Space Marines (.503, the most-represented army in the tournament) and all of the Marine army variants. In terms of pure armies, only Tau, Eldar and Necrons finished higher. And Tyranids are still new. It' only been out for about 1 month before the tournament. Most people aren't even running optimized tyranids yet.

Honestly, I am impressed with the early progress of bugs. They will only get better once Tyranid players start to learn more about them. They are by no means a top-tier army. However, I fully believe that they can give even the top-tier armies a good fight. Blackmoor just gave us a glimpse of that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
Cool beans. are there any lists of what the different players played?

You can kind of judge from some of my photos what some of the players there were running. Mainly double-flyrants and 1-2 hive crones as a basis.


Blackmoor's list went something like this:


2x Flyrants, 1x Hive Commander

Tervigon
30x Gants, some devourers
Another large unit of gants with some devourers
10x Gants (hide in bastion)

2x Hive Crones

2x Mawlocs

Bastion w/Comms Relay

What points are they playing?

I'm not sure quite what to make of the LVO results but there are some very pretty armies up there. It also looks like the Exocrine is getting a good outing.

Building on my low-Synapse idea from a few pages back, I've written a first-draft to give an idea of how I would go about it. As mentioned, the whole point is that Scoring is irrelevant until the late game and so by taking independent Troops, you gain reliability, Without troop-dependence, you don't really need much Synapse at all and so can afford all-out killiness.


Hive Tyrant- 2 Brainleech Devourers, Wings
Hive Tyrant- 2 Brainleech Devourers, Wings
Tyrant Guard- Adrenal Glands*

Genestealers- 5
Genestealers- 5
Genestealers- 5^
Genestealers- 5^

Venomthrope

Hive Crone
Hive Crone

Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyrannofex- Acid Spray, Electroshock Grubs

Imperial Bastion

1750/1750pts

*- I had some points left over at the end and figured this was an appropriate use. Very much a non-necessary addition.
^- If you are happy with the use of dataslates, there is no reason these could not be upgraded to Manufactorum.


Venomthrope takes the Bastion and confers delicious Shrouded to everyone. I'll be honest in saying that I have no idea if he is still susceptible to Instinctive Behaviour but even if he is, it's probably worthwhile. All else fails you can upgrade some 'Stealers to Warriors and rely on the Bastion blocking LoS.

Genestealers do not Infiltrate, they do not even deploy. Reserve, Outflank if appropriate, their one-and-only job is to survive until Turn 5 and claim an objective.

As mentioned it is a first draft and so there has to be some possible improvements. The Tyrant Guard is totally expendable and could happily be flushed away to provide an upgrade to Warrior-squads, or some Regenerate.

Does seem that good players can wring a competitive game out of the Codex, but there is already a worrying mono build look to the lists and, pretty much as with the last codex, when we Nid players get a result in a game we've earned it the hard way.

Lists appear to be dual flyrant, tervigon, 30 gants, crone/harpy/mawloc and then a sprinkle of individual preference. So for a 1,750 list you're looking at 1,200 pts of indentical lists, which is what we feared when we saw the codex. Shame really.

 jy2 wrote:


Blackmoor's list went something like this:


2x Flyrants, 1x Hive Commander

Tervigon
30x Gants, some devourers
Another large unit of gants with some devourers
10x Gants (hide in bastion)

2x Hive Crones

2x Mawlocs

Bastion w/Comms Relay

My list was:

Hive Tyrant
Wings
Hive Commander
TL Devourer

Hive Tyrant
Wings
Hive Commander
TL Devourer

Tervagon

30 Termagants w/15 Devourers (Outflanking)

25 Termagants w/12 Devourers (Outflanking)

10 Termagants

Hive Crone

Hive Crone

Mawloc

Mawloc

Bastion
Comms Relay

The army is meant to hide behind the bastion, and then fly off my FMC on the bottom of turn #1, and them on turn #2 I hit them hard with everything and overwhelm them, and then assault on turn #3

Game #1
I tied Mech Eldar. I had no answer for his 2 wraithknights that were killing 2 TMCs a turn, but I was able to knock out his wave serpents thanks to hive tyrants with onslaught getting rear shots, termagants shooting 45 devourer shots into rear armor, and hive crones vector striking. I tied because I screwed up turn #3 and my 2 crones vector struck a wraithknight when I should have vector striked his farseer for warlord.

Game #2
I tabled a mech blood angles army that had no answer for FMC,

Game #3
Beat a Grey Knight army. It was relic so this is the one game I started my gaunts on the table, and they punished my opponent when he tried to pick up the relic.

Game #4
I played Eldar/Tau. He killed all my synapse on the top of turn #2. I then hit him with all of my turn #2 reserves and crippled his shooting. He had too many targets to kill anything of mine at that point. On turn #3 he had 4 jetbike squads so my mawlocs assaulted 2 of the squads, my termagants shot another bike squad. and the last was killed with a crone vector strike. He then only had a unit of kroot left for troops and my other squad of termagants killed them with snap shots since they were having instinctive behavior issues (the kroot were down to only 5 models from an earlier drool cannon). With out any troops I just needed one of my termagaunst to make there IB checks, and one did. (I had a fearless Termagaunst squad in my bastion that I could have just walked out of if to hold an objective if one of the other gants didn't pass their IB check so I was still okay).

Game #5
I was on table #6 playing to get into the final round against seer council. On turn #3 he did not get fortune off because ot SiTW and I got a paroxism on him for a -3 WS. So with a 2+/4+ non-rerollable save I shot 2 Hive Tyrants, 10 Gaunsts, Drool Cannon, and the mawlocs blast templates at him and only killed 2 models (should have killed 4), Then I assaulted with the Tyrants, the Tervigon and a Crone and he made a ton of 4+ Invulnerable saves and I only killed 3 more of the seer council and at that point he hit-and-ran out of combat and all of my flyers were on the ground and he shot the crap out of them for my one loss to the player who won the whole tournament. :(

I was Blackmoor's round 3 opponent. His devourer gaunts were the star players for sure. I couldn't handle that many dice coming my way at all. I even tried to tell Blackmoor it didn't count if he couldn't roll all the shots in one throw or hold all the dice in his hand without dropping them, but even that didn't help me!

I was predominantly infantry grey knights with mordrak + ghost knights and really his big bugs were pretty ineffectual as the devourer gaunts just did all the work.

The two big plays were mordrak (rolling scoring as his warlord trait) dropping on the relic first turn in an attempt for a quick getaway with the relic. I had been using mordrak to bring a warp rift librarian and try for first blood but I decided to try to be tricksy this game. Mordrak and crew were promptly shot off the board first turn by gaunts.

Next, I tried to move some GKTs up to get the relic. They took fire in blackmoor's turn, followe by overwatch fire in my turn and a failed charge, to then get shot again in Blackmoor's turn. Rinse and repeat and that's pretty much how the game went.

How did the mawlocks perform blackmore? It looks to be a very cheap source of T6 3+ save in the game, even if their attacks are unreliable.

 jy2 wrote:

So what were you expecting? Were you seriously expecting Tyranids to usurp Tau and Eldar as the top army? Let's be realistic here. Tyranids performed admirably for a so-called "underpowered" codex. Of the 11 Tyranid players in the tournament, 7 finished above average. The new Tyranids on the whole finished above average (.575), beating out armies like Dark Eldar (.523), IG (.558), Daemons (.538), Space Marines (.503, the most-represented army in the tournament) and all of the Marine army variants. In terms of pure armies, only Tau, Eldar and Necrons finished higher. And Tyranids are still new. It' only been out for about 1 month before the tournament. Most people aren't even running optimized tyranids yet.

Honestly, I am impressed with the early progress of bugs. They will only get better once Tyranid players start to learn more about them. They are by no means a top-tier army. However, I fully believe that they can give even the top-tier armies a good fight. Blackmoor just gave us a glimpse of that.

No I wasn't expecting much to be honest. I had some vague hope that I was missing something that better players than me had been able to find. The fact that many people (myself included) feel that Nids need a fortification of some sort just feels wrong for a "eat all the things" army. As long as they don’t pull the same FAQ stuff they pulled when 6th came out with Nids and fortifications. Lets face it the armies we did well against had older co:dices in most cases. When IG and Orks get their new Codices I’ll expect us to be ranked with the rest of the villain Codices (Demons and Chaos SM). Orks usually do pretty well with updates as they are a starter set army and there is enough ork love at GW that they should be OK.

I don't want an easy button. I want to go against a player of equal skill with an equal point army and not start at a disadvantage because of my army.

I have been looking around but unable to find it, does anyone know the player count at LVO?

Game #5 sounds like an epic fight that could (should?) have gone the other way and just didn't. Can you imagine how awesome it would have been to see a tyranid player make the top 8?

Good showing Blackmoor, despite the loss you had it sounds like you represented the hive mind quite well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JPong wrote:
I have been looking around but unable to find it, does anyone know the player count at LVO?

193

Some of the lists appear to have the flyers as harpys instead of crones. Did any lists actually run the harpy instead of the crone? I'm really curious how that model did in tournament, i'm thinking of switching my anti tank roll to that model. Heavy venom cannons for hunting, spore cysts for infantry. I kind of like the flexibility.

The harpy is a very good alround unit for the cost. A flying MC with a swis army sett of rules and weapons.

 Blackmoor wrote:
Game #4
I played Eldar/Tau. He killed all my synapse on the top of turn #2. I then hit him with all of my turn #2 reserves and crippled his shooting. He had too many targets to kill anything of mine at that point. On turn #3 he had 4 jetbike squads so my mawlocs assaulted 2 of the squads, my termagants shot another bike squad. and the last was killed with a crone vector strike. He then only had a unit of kroot left for troops and my other squad of termagants killed them with snap shots since they were having instinctive behavior issues (the kroot were down to only 5 models from an earlier drool cannon). With out any troops I just needed one of my termagaunst to make there IB checks, and one did. (I had a fearless Termagaunst squad in my bastion that I could have just walked out of if to hold an objective if one of the other gants didn't pass their IB check so I was still okay).

I'd like more information about this game. What in general did you opponent's list look like? Your turn 2 reserves were: 2 Mawlocs, 2 Crones?, and 27 devil gaunts plus 28 flesborers?. What were the able to take out on turn 2? How lucky were you in outflank / deepstrike rolls?

If you faced that list repeatedly would you generally do better or worse than you did in this one matchup?

Also, did you always bring your crones in from reserves?

Curious. Any idea how many of the Tyranid players were using old codex vs new? Ballpark? There were given the option to use one or the other, correct?