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I usually like three to be two broods, one of two, and one solo...

I'm not sure about Dakka Flyrants anymore... Maybe I'm just too aggressive.

Every game this weekend at a tournament they were the first things to die - and they were about the same range as the onslaughted triple Dakkafex broods. They're just really easy to kill, even with requiring snap shots.

I dunno...

My Flyrants have consistently been the MVPs of my games. I would've lost my last game to CSM without them taking out the Heldrakes.

What viable alternatives do people think we have outside of Flyrants?

Eldercaveman wrote:
What viable alternatives do people think we have outside of Flyrants?

Crones bastions redoubt and the fortress of redemption...though You can handle av 11 fliers with dakkafexes.

Personally...my preferred enemy exocrine also adds his shots when necessary.

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm not sure about Dakka Flyrants anymore... Maybe I'm just too aggressive.

Every game this weekend at a tournament they were the first things to die - and they were about the same range as the onslaughted triple Dakkafex broods. They're just really easy to kill, even with requiring snap shots.

I dunno...

Your probably running them far too aggressively. They should hang with the mix of units in the first round, ideally behind a cover wall. They are fast enough to make up the difference in Turn 2.

About the Zoanthropes, I've tried them out a number of ways and found three units of one to be optimal back-up synapse and support.

I have run 3 units of 3 and they generally take quite a beating before they go down. Their 24/18 inch range and no means of closing the distance to the enemy means their no so hot offensively against many builds but that depends on your meta and general strategy. I don't take broods of three any more because volume of fire has increased as has the popularity of melee in my area, both of witch they are susceptible to. Added to their lack of mobility and they end up doing very little for me offensively.

Now I just run 2 or 3 minimum size broods, mostly there to catch units falling back due to loss of synapse and have more chances at Catalyst and Onslaught. It's also a cheap way of increasing my number of units that can be held in reserve which I always like to have options for even if I don't use them all the time.

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
What viable alternatives do people think we have outside of Flyrants?

Crones bastions redoubt and the fortress of redemption...though You can handle av 11 fliers with dakkafexes.

Personally...my preferred enemy exocrine also adds his shots when necessary.

Sorry I meant viable HQ's.

I'm seriously looking at running a CC Prime and a Dakka Flyrant with Hive Commander. Outflank the Prime in a blob of 30 Termagants. And give the Flyrant a couple of Crones for support,

I don't think we have viable HQs outside of Flyrants, everything else is overpriced and/or doesn't have Synapse.

I like to run a prime with his two Venomthrope buddies - both are necessary in my lists, and he really shines in that role of bodyguard. The Venomthropes survive longer, and the Prime usually gets catapulted into some unsuspecting Marines come turn 3...

How are you loading out your Primes?

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm not sure about Dakka Flyrants anymore... Maybe I'm just too aggressive.

Every game this weekend at a tournament they were the first things to die - and they were about the same range as the onslaughted triple Dakkafex broods. They're just really easy to kill, even with requiring snap shots.

I dunno...

Yep you are too aggressive, timing is everything, you want to be hitting their lines with more than your Flyrants in the same turn. Make target Priority a problem.
So basically aim for a turn 2 in your face with Flyrants, Crones, Mawlocs, Outflanking...

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I don't think we have viable HQs outside of Flyrants, everything else is overpriced and/or doesn't have Synapse.

Dakka Tyrant with regen and hive commander with 2 guards
Flyrant

You're spending a lot of points and drastically reducing your mobility for a minor increase in durability.

Try using 3 Venonthorpes in 3 diferent elite slots, try to be always in cover and in range of them for a 3+ or 2+ cover save. Try using 2 vengance weapon batteries to be sure you get those cover saves in both first and second turn. As you will use no zoanthorpes get 2 Tervigons, 1 with miasma cannon and the other with ESG thorax and use them extremly agresive runing up the whole termagants mass and witch they produce to give target saturation to enemy......
Using 2 Tervigons you will NEVER have sipnapse or scoring troop problems. Be sure to assault something in turn 4 with your mamis.
Use a single Mawloc for back lines disturvance as they are not really reliable but you still need to use 1 of them to avoid oponent turtling in a single cover place. Use 2 Biovores in 2 diferent unnits for the same utility. use 3 Hive Crones, they are jack of all trades...... first 2 turns keep them in venonthorpe range and use their misiles conservative...... after turn 2 go with them agressive.
The 3 Venonthorpes are the key of your army in the first 2 turns agains everything but Tau or Taudar, use them wisely and position them good.
Learn to play new tyranids.... forget 5th edition. we need 2-3 turns of shooting before going into melee....... we need to soften those meat balls before eating them alive.
Then again, Venonthorpes are the key, your whole army should run 2+/3+ cover saves during the first 4 turns.........
Vengance Weapon batteries are a godsent.... that F8ap3 blast really help our army and the cover save and LOS place they give is essential in low cover battlefields.

Sandokann wrote:

Learn to play new tyranids.... forget 5th edition. we need 2-3 turns of shooting before going into melee....... we need to soften those meat balls before eating them alive.

There is another way. We have enough fast units to get a whole army capable to assault in turn 2! Ductvader already posted such a list.

The mentioned units are:

- Flyrants

- Hormagaunts (1d6+3 run move with fleet)
- Genestealer

- Lictors

- Shrikes
- Gargoyles
- Reveners
- Rippers with Wings
- Harpy
- Crone

Venomthropes wont be a good choice in that sort of list, cause they are to slow to buff other units. In a Dakka-List they are must-haves, i agree on that.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
What viable alternatives do people think we have outside of Flyrants?

Crones bastions redoubt and the fortress of redemption...though You can handle av 11 fliers with dakkafexes.

Personally...my preferred enemy exocrine also adds his shots when necessary.

Sorry I meant viable HQ's.

I'm seriously looking at running a CC Prime and a Dakka Flyrant with Hive Commander. Outflank the Prime in a blob of 30 Termagants. And give the Flyrant a couple of Crones for support,

I do this a lot of the time.

Prime with (Boneswords, Adrenal, Toxin, Scytals)

On the charge he's much more likely to kill a Tyrant of equal points.

The Prime is great because he's a great utility piece...if you're running one...give him a few options for a posse...Hive Guard (T6 and I recommend Regen), Termagants, Warriors, Fexes, Genestealers and Lictors are all great options.

Hormagaunts are good if you have multiple squads...so you don't lose bounding leap but you maintain some coherency between units so you can slingshot him into assault.

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
What viable alternatives do people think we have outside of Flyrants?

Crones bastions redoubt and the fortress of redemption...though You can handle av 11 fliers with dakkafexes.

Personally...my preferred enemy exocrine also adds his shots when necessary.

Sorry I meant viable HQ's.

I'm seriously looking at running a CC Prime and a Dakka Flyrant with Hive Commander. Outflank the Prime in a blob of 30 Termagants. And give the Flyrant a couple of Crones for support,

I do this a lot of the time.

Prime with (Boneswords, Adrenal, Toxin, Scytals)

On the charge he's much more likely to kill a Tyrant of equal points.

The Prime is great because he's a great utility piece...if you're running one...give him a few options for a posse...Hive Guard (T6 and I recommend Regen), Termagants, Warriors, Fexes, Genestealers and Lictors are all great options.

Hormagaunts are good if you have multiple squads...so you don't lose bounding leap but you maintain some coherency between units so you can slingshot him into assault.

I'm thinking Boneswords and Miasma Cannon. Outflanking with the .termagant blob. That's some nasty firepower on your flank, with a scary charge if you don't deal with it.

Oh I forgot!

Flesh Hooks are vital.

And as you've already guessed I see, the Lash Whip just isn't worthwhile on this guy...anything to cut down on points.

 ductvader wrote:
Oh I forgot!

Flesh Hooks are vital.


And as you've already guessed I see, the Lash Whip just isn't worthwhile on this guy...anything to cut down on points.

In stand death at Init 8 would still be nice though.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Instant death at Init 8 would still be nice though.

Indeed, but in a world of armies that suck at combat and overly expensive Primes...A Lash Whip is a hard sell for me when you have I5...and aren't AP2.

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Instant death at Init 8 would still be nice though.

Indeed, but in a world of armies that suck at combat and overly expensive Primes...A Lash Whip is a hard sell for me when you have I5...and aren't AP2.

I face a lot of Demon Princes, so for me it could be worth the extra points.

Here's something I did last night that I think will help our FMC's out a bit. Please call me out if you feel this is MFA.

Most players will mount the cross pieces of their flight stands, so that the nose of the plane/flyer is parallel with the longer axis of the oval base. If you measure the base in inches, it's something like 4.5"x5.5". I've taken my flight stems for my FMC's (harpy, crone) and rotated it 90 degrees, so that the nose of the flyer is facing the shorter part of the oval. It's not much, but with a 24" only move, the extra inch to inch and a half of free space will help pull off some moves and vector strikes that would be impossible or very narrow if the flight stem was rotated the other way.

Since there's no instruction of how exactly to glue the flight stand to the oval base, is this MFA? TFG? Or just a savvy tyranid player taking every (much needed) advantage he can grab?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Here's something I did last night that I think will help our FMC's out a bit. Please call me out if you feel this is MFA.

Most players will mount the cross pieces of their flight stands, so that the nose of the plane/flyer is parallel with the longer axis of the oval base. If you measure the base in inches, it's something like 4.5"x5.5". I've taken my flight stems for my FMC's (harpy, crone) and rotated it 90 degrees, so that the nose of the flyer is facing the shorter part of the oval. It's not much, but with a 24" only move, the extra inch to inch and a half of free space will help pull off some moves and vector strikes that would be impossible or very narrow if the flight stem was rotated the other way.

Since there's no instruction of how exactly to glue the flight stand to the oval base, is this MFA? TFG? Or just a savvy tyranid player taking every (much needed) advantage he can grab?

Like mine?



There is no guidance on it, and if GW sees fit to put my "not always flying especially turn 1 when opponent gets to shoot first" Flying MC on a stupid high flier base then I cant see how people can cry foul.

As I made Tervigons before they had a model...mine are all converted Carnifexes that sit sideways on an oval as well.

Eldercaveman wrote:
How are you loading out your Primes?

Typically rending or boneswords and scytals, but now that there's maw claws available, I use those!

 L0rdF1end wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm not sure about Dakka Flyrants anymore... Maybe I'm just too aggressive.

Every game this weekend at a tournament they were the first things to die - and they were about the same range as the onslaughted triple Dakkafex broods. They're just really easy to kill, even with requiring snap shots.

I dunno...

Yep you are too aggressive, timing is everything, you want to be hitting their lines with more than your Flyrants in the same turn. Make target Priority a problem.
So basically aim for a turn 2 in your face with Flyrants, Crones, Mawlocs, Outflanking...

I think especially with this codex, your unit mix is key. For instance, Flyrants seem to work better in armies with multiple FMCs. In ground-based builds (like those featuring Dakkafexes), Primes start to make more sense. Etc. Rather than anything being "core" the way Tervigons were in the last book, it's as though the core and even the satellite units greatly depend on the style of army you want to run.

This doesn't seem like an especially bold revelation, but I think it might be useful to approach Tyranid listbuilding as "no core without context." This is why you see such varying opinions here on units like Tyrants, Exocrines, etc. My first playtest army used an Exocrine and I almost immediately realized I wasn't going to get much out of it because of the army around it.

 gorgon wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm not sure about Dakka Flyrants anymore... Maybe I'm just too aggressive.

Every game this weekend at a tournament they were the first things to die - and they were about the same range as the onslaughted triple Dakkafex broods. They're just really easy to kill, even with requiring snap shots.

I dunno...

Yep you are too aggressive, timing is everything, you want to be hitting their lines with more than your Flyrants in the same turn. Make target Priority a problem.
So basically aim for a turn 2 in your face with Flyrants, Crones, Mawlocs, Outflanking...

I think especially with this codex, your unit mix is key. For instance, Flyrants seem to work better in armies with multiple FMCs. In ground-based builds (like those featuring Dakkafexes), Primes start to make more sense. Etc. Rather than anything being "core" the way Tervigons were in the last book, it's as though the core and even the satellite units greatly depend on the style of army you want to run.

This doesn't seem like an especially bold revelation, but I think it might be useful to approach Tyranid listbuilding as "no core without context." This is why you see such varying opinions here on units like Tyrants, Exocrines, etc. My first playtest army used an Exocrine and I almost immediately realized I wasn't going to get much out of it because of the army around it.

I have seen much the same with my lists. I don't get much mileage out of the dual Flyrant on my horde list becuase it is just to fast for the rest of my list. The Exocrine on the other hand is a perfect for for what is a really a moving 18-24" killzone across the entire front of the deplyment zone.

I might try dropping Flyrants for Primes and picking up 2-3 Zoeys.

For reference, the rest of the list I used was Tervigon, gants, 6 Warriors (Spitters, Strangler), 4 Dakka fexes (I said triple above, meant double) and a TFex. I'm going to drop the TFex for an Exocrine and once I figure out how many points I have left figure out the rest from there.

I think that many players are ignoring the reaklity that the game has become RPS (rock-paper-scissors). At the LVO players were gunning for tau and Nids did beat them often. No one thought there would be a need to tailor for beast packs \or seer councils so look at the top eight. Nids can win but the question is what do you give up to win certain match ups and how will that effect others? I'm pretty sure I \can build a list to beat Tau. But then I might open myself up to a few bad results from DelEldar, White Scars, etc. I played a list on the weekend that handily beat a SM/Tau list (buffmander and rioptide inserted). I'm not sure it would beat a wave serpent list despite having some tools to thwart Eldar. So pick and choose your poison. For reference:
Reaper Tyrant
Deathleaper
2x2 Lictors
terv
30 Gants
5 Stealers
2x Crone
2x Mawloc
Exocrine
No bastion or comms .. no fancy tricks. Ran over my opponent. Flyrant troe the Tide a new one, btw. Mawlocs destroyed his dev cent squad with help from lictors. I lost a few MCs but meh. Even my Crones did damage - to the bike squad although the CM was a b$$%. I'm not fooled. A good Eldar list w/ DE will give me problems. A better bike list would have hurt. He had only one squad. Now his list might have hurt Eldar. But against mine it was just a bad match up.