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I started Warhammer last year with the old codex and played tournaments as a clueless newbie, learned the game and fought spam quite often.

Then I got dealt a somewhat subpar codex and I've kept on loving the bugs regardless and continued to face Tau and Eldar, even suffering repeated defeats in my own home vs my wife.

Now we get a new slate fielding a few more FMC's that are STILL T5W5 4+ and scoring gargs and people cry foul? I feel no remorse.

The tourneys I've been to and plan to attend all have formations banned. My local game group as well so none of this will ever hit my table.

Unless the add a supplement I'll be stuck with what is in the dex.

 Roci wrote:
The tourneys I've been to and plan to attend all have formations banned. My local game group as well so none of this will ever hit my table.

Unless the add a supplement I'll be stuck with what is in the dex.

I've had this discussion with many people, and in my opinion, it's a very simple answer... Make formations take up you allied slot. This prevents silly cheese and balances the field for Nids.

Yeah.. I'd be fine with that but everyone seems to think it has to match the allies foc requirements or you can't bring it.

Not sure why..

Each tournament will have its own ruling with regards to dataslates and formations. Make sure to check with them beforehand.

As for casual play, I am in the camp that you should always ask your opponent if you are doing/bringing something "out of the ordinary" even if it is legal 40K just out of courtesy. If he disagrees, then either you change your list or you two don't play. Personally, I always bring at least 2 variations of these types of lists - a normal one and one with the formation I want to test out. Honestly, a lot of the dataslates/formations do give armies an unfair advantage. Whereas it my even the playing field against Tau/Eldar/Necron or other top armies, it can be OP against other regular mid-tier armies.

 jy2 wrote:
Each tournament will have its own ruling with regards to dataslates and formations. Make sure to check with them beforehand.

As for casual play, I am in the camp that you should always ask your opponent if you are doing/bringing something "out of the ordinary" even if it is legal 40K just out of courtesy. If he disagrees, then either you change your list or you two don't play. Personally, I always bring at least 2 variations of these types of lists - a normal one and one with the formation I want to test out. Honestly, a lot of the dataslates/formations do give armies an unfair advantage. Whereas it my even the playing field against Tau/Eldar/Necron or other top armies, it can be OP against other regular mid-tier armies.

My counter argument is, jetseer and screamer star or wave serpent spam etc are all OP against other mid tier armies yet they are accepted? I feel like the player base is biased against letting tyranids share the power. I'm crossing fingers that 7th rumors this year are true and they lump these data slates in the core rules to prevent these arguments in the first place.

It really depends on your meta. If where you play (or rather, who you play against) is competitive, then I don't really see any problems with dataslates and formations. Most likely, the meta will most likely not only accept, but probably be running them as well.

But in my area, I will blow out most of my opponents if I run some of these formations and/or the newest GW "toys". My opponents already have enough problems with any of my armies, even with my "normal" tyranids. I can't even really run my tournament builds unless someone wants to test their tournament armies against it. That is why, personally, I always ask my opponents for permission to run some of these newer GW publications.

Fair enough answer jy2.

It's easy enough to forget that not everyone runs super efficient lists when I watch a lot of tournament bat reps.

I have to say that it upsets me off a bit when if I cannot take Be'Lakor when everyone else is fine with beaststars, screamerstars, seer councils, four riptides, etc. etc. I can only imagine what the hoopla will be when people show up with the three Imperial Knight armies. Anything can beaten - as long as we are not playing escalation. There is a guy at the LGS who fields nine hornets and five walkers at 1750. He puts out so much dakka it is ridiculous. But we have all learned to deal with it.

My experience has been that balanced lists will outperform many of the 'star' lists. Torrent of Fire just had a tournament with some of the best players around and the winner was an Iron Hands list using Tigerius as an ally ( for the cents) and the Inquisition dataslate (Coteaz/Inq and some acolytes).

Here's a link to the leader board
http://challonge.com/tofinv
and the army lists
http://www.torrentoffire.com/3549/torrent-of-fire-invitational-and-summit

Take a good look at the list of players. There were a lot of surprising lists doing well.

Railhead Rumble finished today.
I brought 6 dakkafexes, Exocrine, Tervigon, gants, dual Flyrants.

Game 1 - special Relic mission against mech IG. He failed 3/4 of his dangerous terrain tests for his Chimeras turn 1. That's how the rest of the game went. 20-0.

Game 2 - Kill Points vs CSM Slannesh. I overestimated his list and just choked. Coulda, shoulda own but didn't. I took the secondary though. 8-16.

Game 3 - Kill Points vs Wraithwing. Complete domination - 32 wounds out of 36 shots on a wraith squad? Seems good. 20-0

Game 4 - Kill Points vs SM. T1 I flew forward to Warp Lance his Land Raider. He denies. Complete opposite of last game. 5 wounds out of 36 shots? Seems bad. 8-16

Game 5 - Crusade vs Nurgle. He seizes on me and flies 2 princes forward. Each Carnifex squad picks a Prince and removes it. 20-0.

MVPs were the Fexes hands down. Most useless was the Exocrine.

 felixcat wrote:


My experience has been that balanced lists will outperform many of the 'star' lists. Torrent of Fire just had a tournament with some of the best players around and the winner was an Iron Hands list using Tigerius as an ally ( for the cents) and the Inquisition dataslate (Coteaz/Inq and some acolytes).

That winning list is actually a deathstar as well, and it's actually particular good at killing psyker deathstars. a 30 IG man blob version of it was used in my area to win a small local tournament a few weeks ago.
Tigurius. Bike CM w Shield. Inquisitor with book. Cotaez and either 30man blob or another bike cm. Incredibly efficient with dealing with assault units, especially psyker ones.

MVPs were the Fexes hands down. Most useless was the Exocrine.

I completely agree. The Exocrine chokes every time, while the dakkafex' always seem to do the dirty work. I stopped bringing the exo in most my lists and just run with 2dakka 1tyranno + biovore, or another tyranno, or another set of fex, or empty. I was skeptical of iNcontrol's list when I saw he brought two Exos to ToF, but who knows, mayhaps he's had better luck with them than we have.

citadel wrote:

MVPs were the Fexes hands down. Most useless was the Exocrine.

I completely agree. The Exocrine chokes every time, while the dakkafex' always seem to do the dirty work. I stopped bringing the exo in most my lists and just run with 2dakka 1tyranno + biovore, or another tyranno, or another set of fex, or empty. I was skeptical of iNcontrol's list when I saw he brought two in list he brought to ToF, but who knows, mayhaps he's had better luck with them than we have.

His record was L-W-L-F-F so not great

 Iechine wrote:

Flyrant w/Devourers, LW/BS, Toxin

Pardon me if this is a silly question - how is this worked out in the list? Is this 2x TL Devourers with Brainleeches and Lashwhip/Bonesword? It can't be, right?

It's only 1x TL-Devourers and LS/BS.

Indeed.

That Tyrant is back to using HVC though.

Got out of work today due to weather and finished my two Lictors and my wife's Wraithknight...now depending on our baby's refusal to take a nap or not this afternoon we will start a new batrep.

rigeld2 wrote:
Railhead Rumble finished today.
I brought 6 dakkafexes, Exocrine, Tervigon, gants, dual Flyrants.

Game 1 - special Relic mission against mech IG. He failed 3/4 of his dangerous terrain tests for his Chimeras turn 1. That's how the rest of the game went. 20-0.

Game 2 - Kill Points vs CSM Slannesh. I overestimated his list and just choked. Coulda, shoulda own but didn't. I took the secondary though. 8-16.

Game 3 - Kill Points vs Wraithwing. Complete domination - 32 wounds out of 36 shots on a wraith squad? Seems good. 20-0

Game 4 - Kill Points vs SM. T1 I flew forward to Warp Lance his Land Raider. He denies. Complete opposite of last game. 5 wounds out of 36 shots? Seems bad. 8-16

Game 5 - Crusade vs Nurgle. He seizes on me and flies 2 princes forward. Each Carnifex squad picks a Prince and removes it. 20-0.

MVPs were the Fexes hands down. Most useless was the Exocrine.

Congrats! 3 massacres is pretty impressive. Overall, it seems like none of the matchups were too bad and all were definitely within reach of a victory for you.

I really like the dakkafexes as well. Not much in the codex will beat a TMC with 2x/TL-D's in terms of pure efficiency. So far, they have been a mainstay of my Tyranid army for now, with the rest of my Heavies being filled out with either biovores or mawlocs (or 1 of each). I'm really not impressed with the exocrine either. His firepower might appear scary to a select few armies, but his output in terms of efficiency and kill ratio just cannot compare.

 jy2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Railhead Rumble finished today.
I brought 6 dakkafexes, Exocrine, Tervigon, gants, dual Flyrants.

Game 1 - special Relic mission against mech IG. He failed 3/4 of his dangerous terrain tests for his Chimeras turn 1. That's how the rest of the game went. 20-0.

Game 2 - Kill Points vs CSM Slannesh. I overestimated his list and just choked. Coulda, shoulda own but didn't. I took the secondary though. 8-16.

Game 3 - Kill Points vs Wraithwing. Complete domination - 32 wounds out of 36 shots on a wraith squad? Seems good. 20-0

Game 4 - Kill Points vs SM. T1 I flew forward to Warp Lance his Land Raider. He denies. Complete opposite of last game. 5 wounds out of 36 shots? Seems bad. 8-16

Game 5 - Crusade vs Nurgle. He seizes on me and flies 2 princes forward. Each Carnifex squad picks a Prince and removes it. 20-0.

MVPs were the Fexes hands down. Most useless was the Exocrine.

Congrats! 3 massacres is pretty impressive. Overall, it seems like none of the matchups were too bad and all were definitely within reach of a victory for you.

I really like the dakkafexes as well. Not much in the codex will beat a TMC with 2x/TL-D's in terms of pure efficiency. So far, they have been a mainstay of my Tyranid army for now, with the rest of my Heavies being filled out with either biovores or mawlocs (or 1 of each). I'm really not impressed with the exocrine either. His firepower might appear scary to a select few armies, but his output in terms of efficiency and kill ratio just cannot compare.

Which is why I am a big fan of the new Living Artillery Node, I can have my Biovores, extra synapse and that nice Ap2 cushion without taking up slots for my Fexes and Mawlocs.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Which is why I am a big fan of the new Living Artillery Node, I can have my Biovores, extra synapse and that nice Ap2 cushion without taking up slots for my Fexes and Mawlocs.

The Live Artillery Node is something that I will definitely try out myself. It's good and not too overpowering (at least for my meta).

However, the problem here is not really the FOC slots, but rather, the limited number of points in your army to build a list like this. As long as you are willing to give up on the flyers - the hive crones and harpies - then I suppose this type of list is doable at 1750. And when I say doable, I mean to still be able to make a TAC Tyranid list.

 jy2 wrote:
Congrats! 3 massacres is pretty impressive. Overall, it seems like none of the matchups were too bad and all were definitely within reach of a victory for you.

Thanks. Yeah, the CSM fight was against the eventual Best Overall (BP, sports, paint) so he was a good general that just capitalized me fumbling over myself and giving away first turn with my Flyrants starting on the board.
I also shoulda won that CM game, but the dice denied. :-/

I really like the dakkafexes as well. Not much in the codex will beat a TMC with 2x/TL-D's in terms of pure efficiency. So far, they have been a mainstay of my Tyranid army for now, with the rest of my Heavies being filled out with either biovores or mawlocs (or 1 of each). I'm really not impressed with the exocrine either. His firepower might appear scary to a select few armies, but his output in terms of efficiency and kill ratio just cannot compare.

I'm probably going to drop the Exocrine for a Harpy.

rigeld2 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Congrats! 3 massacres is pretty impressive. Overall, it seems like none of the matchups were too bad and all were definitely within reach of a victory for you.

Thanks. Yeah, the CSM fight was against the eventual Best Overall (BP, sports, paint) so he was a good general that just capitalized me fumbling over myself and giving away first turn with my Flyrants starting on the board.
I also shoulda won that CM game, but the dice denied. :-/

I really like the dakkafexes as well. Not much in the codex will beat a TMC with 2x/TL-D's in terms of pure efficiency. So far, they have been a mainstay of my Tyranid army for now, with the rest of my Heavies being filled out with either biovores or mawlocs (or 1 of each). I'm really not impressed with the exocrine either. His firepower might appear scary to a select few armies, but his output in terms of efficiency and kill ratio just cannot compare.

I'm probably going to drop the Exocrine for a Harpy.

You mean this opponent?


Yeah, he's got his experiences up in the Battle Reports forum.

BTW, go for a Hive Crone instead if you've got the points.

For the Exocrine users, I' m curious if you're sticking with the 6-gun or if you're firing off the large blast? I'm going to think the latter, but...

Yeah, those are my unfinished fexes...
Color me embarrassed. I misremembered the date and thought I had 2 more weeks to get them painted and ready.

I used the Large Blast a couple times and glanced some Chimeras, but most of the time firing 6 shots and hitting 3 or 4 was as good or better.

edit: And I feel like the Crone is a trap. I'll playtest both for a while I'm sure, but it just feel less useful. The STR8 VS is good... but TL HVCs or Stranglethorns...

Wakshaani wrote:
For the Exocrine users, I' m curious if you're sticking with the 6-gun or if you're firing off the large blast? I'm going to think the latter, but...

I alternate, but you're tactics with an exocrine are definitely different when you're consistently laying the Swarmlord's buffs into him.

This is a list i'm going to try with the artillery dataslate:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wvxusj2lqkj5ue6/dataslate%20fun.html

 jy2 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

Which is why I am a big fan of the new Living Artillery Node, I can have my Biovores, extra synapse and that nice Ap2 cushion without taking up slots for my Fexes and Mawlocs.

The Live Artillery Node is something that I will definitely try out myself. It's good and not too overpowering (at least for my meta).

However, the problem here is not really the FOC slots, but rather, the limited number of points in your army to build a list like this. As long as you are willing to give up on the flyers - the hive crones and harpies - then I suppose this type of list is doable at 1750. And when I say doable, I mean to still be able to make a TAC Tyranid list.

Yeah it shouldn't be such an issue in my area as 90% of my games are at least 2k and probably 60% of those are 3k

Fighting a very uphill battle upstairs.

Its turn 1, I had to go second, and already her Wraithknight has ID'ed my crone for 1st blood and a scouring point. Lost a Gargoyle unit as well, but I regen'ed them (running Skyblight formation)

I can only wonder how many FMC's will die turn 2, our daughter decided one turn was enough fun for mom and dad today so the game is on hold.

 Iechine wrote:
Fighting a very uphill battle upstairs.

Its turn 1, I had to go second, and already her Wraithknight has ID'ed my crone for 1st blood and a scouring point. Lost a Gargoyle unit as well, but I regen'ed them (running Skyblight formation)

I can only wonder how many FMC's will die turn 2, our daughter decided one turn was enough fun for mom and dad today so the game is on hold.

Reserving your FMCs might have been the wiser choice if going 2nd vs a wraith knight

A huge part of that problem on our board is lack of truly LOS terrain. At the end of the day, Im glad the Crone took the shot rather than a tyrant (She had rolled 6's), but ugh.

Nothing you can do when that happens. Well better the crone than the flyrant.