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CHeap cheap cheap, my Tyranid are all about cheap. Hormagaunts with toxins? Nope! Vanilla! Fleet on my Carnifexi? Nope! STomp around like Godzilla, even if it means you fail a charge now and then.

Less points per model = more bodies, and more bodies = both more attacks and more wound absorbtion, which is critical for Troops selections.

Currently, my Warrior mix is as follows:

One with Rending Claws and a Barbed Strangler.
Two with Rending Claws and Devourerers
Three with Deathspitters and scything talons

The six of them come to 220 points, but sport 18 wounds, at Toughness 4 and Sv 4+ (And a cover save of 3+ thanks to the Venomthrope nearby)

I'm toying with the idea of removing one Rending set for a set of Boneswords, taking the role of "veteran sergeant" for the group, but I've not experimented with it yet.

From there, positioning varies by foe. Fighting Marines? Let the Deathspitters go up front so that the Rending CLaws last longer for when you get to melee. Fighting squishies with armor 5+ or worse? Put the rending claws in front and blast away with the Deathspitters.

These "tactical builds" aren't as focused as some of the crazy melee combat teams I've seen, but I don't run Warriors at 50+ points each, either.

Let the Elites and Heavies do the heavy lifting of breaking the other guy's army, your Troops are there to absorb the damage and take objectives. Anything that they kill is just a bonus.

 xttz wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I've found that the weakest link in most of the formations are surprise surprise; the Warriors due to their inherent squishiness against mid-power and high-power weapons.

With how pricey they are and how easily they go splat it's a bit hard to get them to pull their own weight before a riptide instagibs them or they get splattered by Karandras.

I'm usually inclined to keep them cheap but this makes gibbing them easier. I've settled on giving them toxin sacs, deathspitters, and rending claws for a reasonably TAC load-out. Sometimes I throw on adrenal glands too if I feel the need to hit at S5 at the start of combat.

I'd love to hear (from others too) how this kind of Warrior loadout typically performs. My gut reaction is that this is the perfect example of a sunk-cost fallacy. The extra points you're sinking into the unit doesn't really make it anymore resilent - anything likely to charge it is going to have at least I4 and land some hits, plus have far better wounds/armour for absorbing return damage. Even with these upgrades, Warriors won't be throwing out enough attacks to block anything more than a casual assault.

In my mind that's 30-45pts sunk that could have been better spent on a Venomthrope to protect them from fire, on Regeneration to keep your Hive Tyrant alive, or simply just on another Warrior to absorb damage / inflict more attacks.

As for fixing Warriors, I think changing their default loadouts and upgrade costs would go a long way. Leave them at 30pts, but include the Deathspitter as the default weapon. Allow it to be swapped with ScyTals, Rending Claws, or twin-linked Devourers for free.

They may as well not show up at all in small games due to price, and in large games they still eat up a chunk of my army points that makes me uneasy.

They excel at nothing save for spitting out S5 shots in bulk and perhaps opening up SoBs and MEQ/TEQs thanks to rerolling wounds+rending, in non-homebrew heavy games they still usually get splatted by the first riptide that gets markerlights on them or by Manticores or whatever big damn pieplate is thrown at them, and when pitted against Wraiths they repeatedly can't get quite close enough before the Wraiths jump in, coil everything down, and then make confetti (if they have a D-lord with them it gets even uglier), but they generally made for decent bully units.

The potential synergy with primes is neutered by you only being allowed one Prime per HQ slot and the Prime's unreasonably high cost.

Agree that the warriors are fairly useless. I could see a large warrior army being fairly hard to kill (once your FMC's take out the Str 8) but it's allot more fun playing with other units.

My warriors sit there and provide backfield synapse on an objective whilst missing with a VC every turn lol... They are pretty good backfield objective holders. I think I need to give them rending claws and lash whips though to take on backfield threats.

Primes are much better off attached to other broods (like carnifex, or gaunt) id imagine?

I like to use Warriors in my lists, typically I use Nidzilla type lists though so there's other, more pertinent, threats to my opponents. No one shoots at Warriors with a 3+ cover save when there's 7 MCs bearing down on them.

It's more a list style thing - Warriors don't just fit into all lists.

We only have 3 Troops choices that don't need Synapse, and one of them takes 30 Termagants to field as Troops, so Warriors definitely have a place. Not because they're good, but because we need Scoring units and everything else in the Troops section is also mediocre.

My Warriors never die! Because I only every take 3. From the Living Artillery formation. And they Hide. Behind LoS Blocking Terrain. With a Venomthrope and my 3 Biovores.

They're terrible and the only reason I take those 3 other then the fact that I'm forced to is for the scatter Re-Rolls and Synapse (Saves me getting a Zoan) and to sit on an objective I put back there.

i poo-poo at warriors. a lot. because they're awful.

however, if you've made a list that has enough threats and pressure, the last thing the enemy should be doing is shooting at your MSU warriors. the flyrants/crones/tfexes/etc should be doing work while the 'warriors' are drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes somewhere safely out of sight. give the enemy something they *have* to deal with, and while its eating their face your warriors won't be getting shot up quite so much.

That's so true - the only reason warriors are "good" (loose use of the term) is because falling out of synapse is so terribly bad with this book. I miss the days of warrior broods stomping across the table with EW, flinging s5 pie plates at 24" then getting into combat and actually winning. Now all they excel at is hiding and babysitting, with the occasional barbed strangler helping out once in awhile. Such a waste for an iconic model in the range.

Okay....

So, here goes. 1800 point tournament. Sadly I lack Harpies, Exocrines and Mawlocs so the one MUST HAVE formation is a no go.

The rules? No Fortifications, no Lords of War, Allies allowed, formations allowed.

Decided on the following

*****

Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 x Twin Devourers
Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 x Twin Devourers

Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

15 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
3 Warriors - Barbed Strangler

Crone
Crone

Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers
Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers

Tyrant Node Formation

Hive Tyrant - Twin Devourers, Heavy Venom Cannon
3 Tyrant Guard
Venomthrope

*****

1800 points on the dot. I like this list - plenty of psychic powers (7 rolls), a decent synapse bubble, a backfield synapse scoring unit (Warriors), 3 termagant units to contest and plenty of MCs to be aggressive with and plenty of firepower.

My concerns? The troops are squishy. I know anyone with an ounce of sense will focus them down quickly. However, in respect to that 2 Flyrants and 2 Crones can be aggressive fast and I plan on marching the foot Tyrant forward with the Carnifexes and being aggressive with them as well. Hopefully they'll distract from the gants!

Opinions?

Also, if anyone else wants to come up with other ideas for 1800 points - my limitations are above. Trying to settle with something quick as my next few weeks will be painting the army up.

Formations I like the look of and can field...

Endless Swarm - Because troops are important. 7 troops outside of Force Org is wonderful.
Bioblast Node - Because I love MCs and rerolling wounds is wonderful on dakkafexes.
Synaptic Swarm - Because 18" Synapse bubbles.

I had little planning interest in the others - Lictors serve no real purpose in the army, Genestealers are hideously vulnerable to overwatch, combat Fexes are...meh.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Okay....

So, here goes. 1800 point tournament. Sadly I lack Harpies, Exocrines and Mawlocs so the one MUST HAVE formation is a no go.

The rules? No Fortifications, no Lords of War, Allies allowed, formations allowed.

Decided on the following

*****

Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 x Twin Devourers
Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 x Twin Devourers

Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

15 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
3 Warriors - Barbed Strangler

Crone
Crone

Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers
Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers

Tyrant Node Formation

Hive Tyrant - Twin Devourers, Heavy Venom Cannon
3 Tyrant Guard
Venomthrope

*****

1800 points on the dot. I like this list - plenty of psychic powers (7 rolls), a decent synapse bubble, a backfield synapse scoring unit (Warriors), 3 termagant units to contest and plenty of MCs to be aggressive with and plenty of firepower.

My concerns? The troops are squishy. I know anyone with an ounce of sense will focus them down quickly. However, in respect to that 2 Flyrants and 2 Crones can be aggressive fast and I plan on marching the foot Tyrant forward with the Carnifexes and being aggressive with them as well. Hopefully they'll distract from the gants!

Opinions?

Also, if anyone else wants to come up with other ideas for 1800 points - my limitations are above. Trying to settle with something quick as my next few weeks will be painting the army up.

Formations I like the look of and can field...

Endless Swarm - Because troops are important. 7 troops outside of Force Org is wonderful.
Bioblast Node - Because I love MCs and rerolling wounds is wonderful on dakkafexes.
Synaptic Swarm - Because 18" Synapse bubbles.

I had little planning interest in the others - Lictors serve no real purpose in the army, Genestealers are hideously vulnerable to overwatch, combat Fexes are...meh.

Take a look at my Endless Tunnel Assault list(s) You might have to mod it a might, but it should have some usable ideas...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Okay....

So, here goes. 1800 point tournament. Sadly I lack Harpies, Exocrines and Mawlocs so the one MUST HAVE formation is a no go.

Spoiler:

The rules? No Fortifications, no Lords of War, Allies allowed, formations allowed.

Decided on the following

*****

Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 x Twin Devourers
Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 x Twin Devourers

Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

15 Termagants
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
3 Warriors - Barbed Strangler

Crone
Crone

Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers
Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers

Spoiler:

Tyrant Node Formation

Hive Tyrant - Twin Devourers, Heavy Venom Cannon
3 Tyrant Guard
Venomthrope

*****

1800 points on the dot. I like this list - plenty of psychic powers (7 rolls), a decent synapse bubble, a backfield synapse scoring unit (Warriors), 3 termagant units to contest and plenty of MCs to be aggressive with and plenty of firepower.

My concerns? The troops are squishy. I know anyone with an ounce of sense will focus them down quickly. However, in respect to that 2 Flyrants and 2 Crones can be aggressive fast and I plan on marching the foot Tyrant forward with the Carnifexes and being aggressive with them as well. Hopefully they'll distract from the gants!

Opinions?

Also, if anyone else wants to come up with other ideas for 1800 points - my limitations are above. Trying to settle with something quick as my next few weeks will be painting the army up.

Formations I like the look of and can field...

Endless Swarm - Because troops are important. 7 troops outside of Force Org is wonderful.
Bioblast Node - Because I love MCs and rerolling wounds is wonderful on dakkafexes.
Synaptic Swarm - Because 18" Synapse bubbles.

I had little planning interest in the others - Lictors serve no real purpose in the army, Genestealers are hideously vulnerable to overwatch, combat Fexes are...meh.

As long as you have room in the FOC, you might want to split that into 3 CFex squads, or drop 1 fex for a squad of Biovores. Or, you could drop one Dakkafex for a bubble wrap / tarpit of Gargoyles (and put each fex in a squad of one)

The Kill point increase is offset by the likelihood of additional scoring units in Scouring or Big Guns.

He only has 2 fexes there...

rigeld2 wrote:
He only has 2 fexes there...

Yep. There is only 2 Carnifexes total in that list.

3 Tyrants
2 Carnifexes
2 Crones.

They're both already individual broods as well.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
He only has 2 fexes there...

Yep. There is only 2 Carnifexes total in that list.

3 Tyrants
2 Carnifexes
2 Crones.

They're both already individual broods as well.

My bad. I read 2 TL Devourers as 2 Fexes. In that case, dropping one would be a significant drop in firepower. Probably not worth it. List looks good as is.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/587969.page

Modifying this list to be 50 less points would be easy enough. Season to taste? I'd personally drop the zoey to fit in at 1800.

Hey Guys,

On Saturday i attended a small Tournament at our local game shop. Top Prize was an Imperial Knight, with a store credit for second and third place. It was only a 1000 point list and i really dont have the most optimized units, but here is my list:

Flyrant 2 x Twin Linked Devs
Venomthrope
30 Termagaunts (15 with Devs)
Tervagon with Crushing Claws
10 Genestealers
3 Warriors (2 Deathspitters, Barbed Strangler)
2 Biovores

Game 1:
Big Guns Never Tire, Dawn of War Deployment, 5 Objectives.

OpponentL Tau: (Going from memory)
Commander Farsight (with a ton of gun drons)
Riptide
4 Pathfinders
3 Squads of 3 Crisis suits

I thought he was going to have this one in the bag. This was the game i was most worried about, and was hoping i did not draw the Tau player. But it was a good hard fought game. Venomthorpe gave up First Blood for him. Very fun game, the Tervigon never corked and ended up putting out way over 40 gaunts. In the end, there were so many small targets the Tau player was not sure what to kill. The Refs called the at turn 5, I lost by 1 point, if they had let us go on, i feel i could have contested both of the objectives he held, if not outright taken them from him.

Final Score Tau 8, Nids 7

Second Game:
Crusade, Hammer and Anvil, 4 Objectives

Opponent: Ultramarines (Very new player, hope he had a great time and keeps playing)
M Calgar
Tact Squad (Missle Launcher, Flamer)
Tact Squad (Flamer, Grav Pistol)
Dreadnaught
Storm Tallon (Twin Linked Lascannon)
Thunderfire cannon

This game was an odd one, the center of the table was filled by a massive LOS blocking hill, between it and Hammer and Anvil it took until turn 3 to get First blood (Hive Tyrrant took out Dreadnaught). Turn 4 I took out his flyer, and my genestealers ate one squad holding one of his objectives. Game ended on turn 5. This was my first time fighting a Thunderfire cannon, that thing was just eating through my small bugs.

Final Score: Marines: 3, Nids: 8

Third Game:
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil

Opponent: Chaos Space Marines
Typhus
20 Plague Zombies
18 Plague Zombies
Oblitorators
Defiler
Helldrake

I have fought this list a few times before, and each time its a hard go for my bugs. He put his object in a far corner guarded by the Defiler and a squad of zombies, his oblitorators were up in ruins. This was another game that took a long time for things to get going turn 3 I finally got first blood after both my Hive Tyrant and genestealers locked up the zombies on the objective. He killed my tyrant next turn when the defiler charged in. I was trying to move as many troops as i could onto his objective as my genestealers held the defiler up. But between his oblitoratrs, turkey he kept killing them off just shy of claiming it. Good game, ended at turn 5

Final Points: Chaos 1, Nids; 4

In the end i had a great time, this was my first time in a tournament setting. Hoping the next one is a bit bigger. After all the other games were over, and painting points were added in, I won by 1 point. Second place was the Tau i faced first game, and third was a Dark Eldar player.

I was surprised how well i did with a very non optimized list. The MVP this game was the Tervagon, she was a beast.

heracyangel wrote:
Hey Guys,

On Saturday i attended a small Tournament at our local game shop. Top Prize was an Imperial Knight, with a store credit for second and third place. It was only a 1000 point list and i really dont have the most optimized units, but here is my list:

Flyrant 2 x Twin Linked Devs
Venomthrope
30 Termagaunts (15 with Devs)
Tervagon with Crushing Claws
10 Genestealers
3 Warriors (2 Deathspitters, Barbed Strangler)
2 Biovores

Game 1:
Big Guns Never Tire, Dawn of War Deployment, 5 Objectives.

OpponentL Tau: (Going from memory)
Commander Farsight (with a ton of gun drons)
Riptide
4 Pathfinders
3 Squads of 3 Crisis suits

I thought he was going to have this one in the bag. This was the game i was most worried about, and was hoping i did not draw the Tau player. But it was a good hard fought game. Venomthorpe gave up First Blood for him. Very fun game, the Tervigon never corked and ended up putting out way over 40 gaunts. In the end, there were so many small targets the Tau player was not sure what to kill. The Refs called the at turn 5, I lost by 1 point, if they had let us go on, i feel i could have contested both of the objectives he held, if not outright taken them from him.

Final Score Tau 8, Nids 7

Second Game:
Crusade, Hammer and Anvil, 4 Objectives

Opponent: Ultramarines (Very new player, hope he had a great time and keeps playing)
M Calgar
Tact Squad (Missle Launcher, Flamer)
Tact Squad (Flamer, Grav Pistol)
Dreadnaught
Storm Tallon (Twin Linked Lascannon)
Thunderfire cannon

This game was an odd one, the center of the table was filled by a massive LOS blocking hill, between it and Hammer and Anvil it took until turn 3 to get First blood (Hive Tyrrant took out Dreadnaught). Turn 4 I took out his flyer, and my genestealers ate one squad holding one of his objectives. Game ended on turn 5. This was my first time fighting a Thunderfire cannon, that thing was just eating through my small bugs.

Final Score: Marines: 3, Nids: 8

Third Game:
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil

Opponent: Chaos Space Marines
Typhus
20 Plague Zombies
18 Plague Zombies
Oblitorators
Defiler
Helldrake

I have fought this list a few times before, and each time its a hard go for my bugs. He put his object in a far corner guarded by the Defiler and a squad of zombies, his oblitorators were up in ruins. This was another game that took a long time for things to get going turn 3 I finally got first blood after both my Hive Tyrant and genestealers locked up the zombies on the objective. He killed my tyrant next turn when the defiler charged in. I was trying to move as many troops as i could onto his objective as my genestealers held the defiler up. But between his oblitoratrs, turkey he kept killing them off just shy of claiming it. Good game, ended at turn 5

Final Points: Chaos 1, Nids; 4

In the end i had a great time, this was my first time in a tournament setting. Hoping the next one is a bit bigger. After all the other games were over, and painting points were added in, I won by 1 point. Second place was the Tau i faced first game, and third was a Dark Eldar player.

I was surprised how well i did with a very non optimized list. The MVP this game was the Tervagon, she was a beast.

Thanx for the info! Yep, in small point games the Big Bugs really shine

Havent been playing lately/havent wanted to, so not much new thought wise.

Doing a local tournament at the end of the month that doesnt allow dataslates or allies. Looks like I'm taking

1850pts

Two Flyrants w/devourers, ES Grubs and HC
Two Lictors
Warrior brood w/Scy and Rending claws, 1 LW/BS
Warrior brood w/Scy and Rending claws, 1 LW/BS
Warrior brood w/devourers, 1 VC
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc

Headhunter warrior broods both outflank, hopefully one Lictor secures a critical Mawloc money shot. Continuing my no need for synapse ideas.

 Iechine wrote:
Havent been playing lately/havent wanted to, so not much new thought wise.

Doing a local tournament at the end of the month that doesnt allow dataslates or allies. Looks like I'm taking

1850pts

Two Flyrants w/devourers, ES Grubs and HC
Two Lictors
Warrior brood w/Scy and Rending claws, 1 LW/BS
Warrior brood w/Scy and Rending claws, 1 LW/BS
Warrior brood w/devourers, 1 VC
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc

Headhunter warrior broods both outflank, hopefully one Lictor secures a critical Mawloc money shot. Continuing my no need for synapse ideas.

Swap a crone for a harpy with a STC. Add in cluster spines and for about the same points you have an answer to hordes/light troops. The crones are awesome but they need to constantly be close to the enemy to do damage. Harpies can fly around the tape and harass key units, and their -5 initiative modifiers can help swing a key assault in your favor if necessary

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Havent been playing lately/havent wanted to, so not much new thought wise.

Doing a local tournament at the end of the month that doesnt allow dataslates or allies. Looks like I'm taking

1850pts

Two Flyrants w/devourers, ES Grubs and HC
Two Lictors
Warrior brood w/Scy and Rending claws, 1 LW/BS
Warrior brood w/Scy and Rending claws, 1 LW/BS
Warrior brood w/devourers, 1 VC
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc

Headhunter warrior broods both outflank, hopefully one Lictor secures a critical Mawloc money shot. Continuing my no need for synapse ideas.

Swap a crone for a harpy

No. No no no. Never swap a Crone, and certainly not against a Harpy. Crones have unparallelled utility and kill about as much infantry as Harpies, between vector and Drool Cannon. They are actually better at killing infantry than HVC Harpies.
The list is fine, have fun!

Fair enough - I personally like both units but whatever works best for you is just fine too.

Hey, on an unrelated (but quite humorous) note - it appears the guard codex is getting the EXACT same treatment as tyranids. Largely unchanged rules, dropped points in some places but raised in others (vendetta), and some models are supposedly no longer in it. I'm giggling reading the comments because I went through this back in January.

The good thing is we have learned to make and play good lists, I'm sure guard players will still be able to as well.

I heard Pask is going to make the Punisher Heavy 20 Rending, and can receive an Ignores Cover order...

How is that getting the Tyranid treatment? Paskquisher + 2 Executioners in a squadron with Ignores Cover...

rigeld2 wrote:
I heard Pask is going to make the Punisher Heavy 20 Rending, and can receive an Ignores Cover order...

How is that getting the Tyranid treatment? Paskquisher + 2 Executioners in a squadron with Ignores Cover...

Because our flying hive tyrants got 30 pts cheaper and gained bs4? A handful of buffs for each codex still follows the trend. Just look at some of the comments on natfka's site and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Unless Astra Militarum get an army-wide special rule that actively screws them over they'll still be better off than Tyranids.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Unless Astra Militarum get an army-wide special rule that actively screws them over they'll still be better off than Tyranids.

All Astra Militarum infantry units must include a Commissar. Whenever an infantry unit is required to take a morale test, the Commissar immediately executes D3 models. If the test is failed, he executes a further D6 models and the test is re-rolled.

 xttz wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Unless Astra Militarum get an army-wide special rule that actively screws them over they'll still be better off than Tyranids.

All Astra Militarum infantry units must include a Commissar. Whenever an infantry unit is required to take a morale test, the Commissar immediately executes D3 models. If the test is failed, he executes a further D6 models and the test is re-rolled.

Is this true or did you make that up?

Zimko wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Unless Astra Militarum get an army-wide special rule that actively screws them over they'll still be better off than Tyranids.

All Astra Militarum infantry units must include a Commissar. Whenever an infantry unit is required to take a morale test, the Commissar immediately executes D3 models. If the test is failed, he executes a further D6 models and the test is re-rolled.

Is this true or did you make that up?

It says a lot about modern GW when something that nuts is believable.

 xttz wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Unless Astra Militarum get an army-wide special rule that actively screws them over they'll still be better off than Tyranids.

All Astra Militarum infantry units must include a Commissar. Whenever an infantry unit is required to take a morale test, the Commissar immediately executes D3 models. If the test is failed, he executes a further D6 models and the test is re-rolled.

After the Adepticon Team Tournament I have to say a few things about Tyranids.

Stranglethorn Cannons are insane...literally insane against a wide variety of different armies...two of our team members were Tau and my fexes were outshining Broadsides and Riptides in most games.

Fexes are my favorite and best answer to Wave Serpents / Eldar suck at killing Tyranids...they're really really bad at it.

We have the best codex psychic table in the game (Only Divination beats it)

I made full use of every single power I rolled.

Lone Venomthropes were the champions of the entire event. 2+ cover fearless termagants are amazing.

My teammate and I never failed a grounding test in 5 games (10 total) That was just awesome.

Minimum Synapse is 3 sources per 1000 pts...and I cannot be convinced otherwise.

And Adepticon is awesome, people are awesome, tyranids are awesome.

My opponents:
White Scars Bikers
10 Iron Hands Centurions
Salamanders/Imperial Fists
Taudar
Crone Spam Tyranids

 ductvader wrote:
After the Adepticon Team Tournament I have to say a few things about Tyranids.

How many STC + TL Devourer carnifexes were in your 1000 point list? In how many squads?

What HQ were you running?

Did you get one of the bonus FOC slots? Heavy Support?

Were you running any fast attack?

 ductvader wrote:
Minimum Synapse is 3 sources per 1000 pts...and I cannot be convinced otherwise.

A good rule, does that mean you ran warriors as troops?