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 Iechine wrote:

Crones just went way out of style...to me they were the silver lining of our codex, and now not so much. : /

They are better at just circling around vector striking people though, d3 S8 AP2 autohits will do a serious number on any elite unit.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Crones just went way out of style...to me they were the silver lining of our codex, and now not so much. : /

They are better at just circling around vector striking people though, d3 S8 AP2 autohits will do a serious number on any elite unit.

Vector strikes are just one hit now at AP2.

To be fair they are also much harder to ground which for me was there biggest weakness. Someone would easily ground it and just tear through those wounds.

bodazoka wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Crones just went way out of style...to me they were the silver lining of our codex, and now not so much. : /

They are better at just circling around vector striking people though, d3 S8 AP2 autohits will do a serious number on any elite unit.

Vector strikes are just one hit now at AP2.

To be fair they are also much harder to ground which for me was there biggest weakness. Someone would easily ground it and just tear through those wounds.

They are tougher to kill by far. Now, I wonderifI it will be worth it to buy extra guns for them, as they'll live long enough to run out of missiles, and vector strike is situational.

 jifel wrote:

bodazoka wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Crones just went way out of style...to me they were the silver lining of our codex, and now not so much. : /

They are better at just circling around vector striking people though, d3 S8 AP2 autohits will do a serious number on any elite unit.

Vector strikes are just one hit now at AP2.

To be fair they are also much harder to ground which for me was there biggest weakness. Someone would easily ground it and just tear through those wounds.

They are tougher to kill by far. Now, I wonderifI it will be worth it to buy extra guns for them, as they'll live long enough to run out of missiles, and vector strike is situational.

Flamers kill passengers of open topped vehicles in case you missed it (d6 hits at str and ap of weapon). Crones still have tons of early to mid game use! Then landing to score a distant objective at the end of game. Win.

Seriously you can flame an OT transport?

bodazoka wrote:
Seriously you can flame an OT transport?

Only with templates(including the hellstorm template). If you aim a template weapon over a fire point on a building, or in any part of an open-topped transport the occupants take d6 hits at the strength and ap of the weapon.

 ductvader wrote:
If Tyrant Guard don't count...consider a walkrant. But a prime is good and deathleaper is good...but not as a warlord.

So going off that, here's my thoughts for a list for this:

HQ:
Hive Tyrant (HVC, Bone Swords) 200
Tyrant Guard x2 100

Troops:
Warrior Brood (4 Warriors, one with a Barbed Strangler) 130
Termagaunt Brood (15 gaunts, 10 Fleshborers, 5 Devs) 80

Elite:
Venomthrope Brood 45
Zoanthrope Brood x2 100

Fast Attack:
Hive Crone 155

Heavy Support:
Tyrannofex (Electroshock Grubs, Fleshborer Hive) 190

Total: 1000 Points

Basically, here's the quick rules for this thing:

HQ cannot exceed 200 points, attachments units (Tyrant Guard) do not count towards that total.
No other unit can exceed 300 points.
You are only allowed 1 flyer/list and you cannot have duplicates of the same monsterous creature unless it is within its own unit (ie. Carnifexes).

Basically, I'm going to march up the field, using the Crone to harass early game combined with HVC and BS on the Warriors. Thoughts? Changes I could make?

Edit: Decided to drop the Toxin Sacs from the fex and a Warrior squad. Added a gaunt squad and 1 Warrior to the remaining Warrior squad.

So...depending on the tourney scene, I'm wanting to try this in 7th:

1850pts
Flyrant w/Devs
Flyrant w/Devs
Venomthrope
Warrior Brood (5, 3 w/Scy and Rending, 2 w/LWBS, all Adrenal)
16 Gaunts (or something)
Hierophant w/Incubation Chamber

Obviously the venomthrope and warriors are all embarked...since its an assault vehicle thats an angry warrior brood that can pop out and do quite a bit of damage to most targets, let alone having the Hierophant ready to assault and have eternal 3+ cover.

An alternative is working a Tervigon in there without another flyrant, but the spawned troops just dont have that glimmer that they used to (Especially squishy termagant ones).

Before 7th I never would have considered using a Hierophant in a serious manner, but now that vehicles could give a feth about tyranid MC's (especially the slow ones) then perhaps its something to look in to. What will the predicted land raider spam's really have
to argue against it?

bodazoka wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Crones just went way out of style...to me they were the silver lining of our codex, and now not so much. : /

They are better at just circling around vector striking people though, d3 S8 AP2 autohits will do a serious number on any elite unit.

Vector strikes are just one hit now at AP2.

To be fair they are also much harder to ground which for me was there biggest weakness. Someone would easily ground it and just tear through those wounds.

For a vehicle that vector strikes, not a FMC. (AFAIK)

Is Land Raider spam really going to become and then stay "a thing" though?

Sure, it's a big model and will be able to score. It's hard to kill, and can push models off of objectives at the end of the game.

On the other hand, it's a big model, it's expensive and aside from the tactical uses above, it's not particularly lethal in a direct sense (most of them anyway).

I would compare them to our Tervigons back in 5th; big scoring bricks with some tactical benefits. The difference is that the Tervigons had massive tactical use (Synapse, 1-3 Biomancy rolls, Termagant spawning/buffing, filling a gap in anti-vehicle roles) in addition to their scoring status. I just don't see the Land Raider being as effective as the Tervigon was, and the Tervigon wasn't even that effective.

I would imagine a month or two of Land Raider lists, then people will start to think "maybe I'll take one Land Raider out and put in something else... then two...".

So we got boned super hard in our ability to take out mech. The nerfing was so complete that I would assume that some of our wargear is going to have to be updated to make tyranids function against super-scoring Land Raiders, Drop Pods and Rhinos.

Right now I'm eying an Eldar Ally to provide my anti-tank. However, since this is a thread about being positive. Here are some wargear suggestions that might make Tyranids playable in 7th.

These suggestions could all fix the problem. I'm not calling for all of them, just 1
1) Warp Lance range upped to 48", and AP set back to AP:1. This would make it useful in most games, and prevent the vehicles from running from the super slow Zoenthropes.
2) Exocrine Has either Lance, Haywire, or Armorbane.
3) TL-Devourers with BL worms gets lance.
4) Trygon Shooting becomes haywire (makes sense from the fluff)
5) Crone gets D6 vector strike hits against vehicles.
6) Crushing Claws reduced to 5 points, and can be swapped in for STs on any TMC, and Bio-plasma (on Carnifexes) upped to 24" range.
7) All tails get Armorbane or Haywire. <- Look I just made tails useful.
8) HVC becomes S9 Assault 3, AP:2.
9) Rupture Cannon becomes S10 Assault 8, AP:2
10) Synapse grants Armorbane in close combat. <- Makes no, sense, but neither does Invincible Land Raiders.
11) Impaler Cannon become Melta, and get AP:1 or a longer range or something.
12) Scything Talons become AP:1 when wield by a TMC.
13) Carnifexes become beasts.
14) Mawloc's Terror from the Deep become Ordinance, AP:1, and is resolved against back armor.
15) Deathspitters become S8, AP:1, Assault 1, Melta <- look I just made Deathspitters worth it, and now Tyranids have Melta just like most other codexes.

tag8833 wrote:
So we got boned super hard in our ability to take out mech. The nerfing was so complete that I would assume that some of our wargear is going to have to be updated to make tyranids function against super-scoring Land Raiders, Drop Pods and Rhinos.

Right now I'm eying an Eldar Ally to provide my anti-tank. However, since this is a thread about being positive. Here are some wargear suggestions that might make Tyranids playable in 7th.

These suggestions could all fix the problem. I'm not calling for all of them, just 1
1) Warp Lance range upped to 48", and AP set back to AP:1. This would make it useful in most games, and prevent the vehicles from running from the super slow Zoenthropes.
2) Exocrine Has either Lance, Haywire, or Armorbane.
3) TL-Devourers with BL worms gets lance.
4) Trygon Shooting becomes haywire (makes sense from the fluff)
5) Crone gets D6 vector strike hits against vehicles.
6) Crushing Claws reduced to 5 points, and can be swapped in for STs on any TMC, and Bio-plasma (on Carnifexes) upped to 24" range.
7) All tails get Armorbane or Haywire. <- Look I just made tails useful.
8) HVC becomes S9 Assault 3, AP:2.
9) Rupture Cannon becomes S10 Assault 8, AP:2
10) Synapse grants Armorbane in close combat. <- Makes no, sense, but neither does Invincible Land Raiders.
11) Impaler Cannon become Melta, and get AP:1 or a longer range or something.
12) Scything Talons become AP:1 when wield by a TMC.
13) Carnifexes become beasts.
14) Mawloc's Terror from the Deep become Ordinance, AP:1, and is resolved against back armor.
15) Deathspitters become S8, AP:1, Assault 1, Melta <- look I just made Deathspitters worth it, and now Tyranids have Melta just like most other codexes.

Jesus tap dancing Christ that's overpowered.

" I'm not calling for all of them, just 1 "

 Iechine wrote:
" I'm not calling for all of them, just 1 "

The only one that I can get behind is the HVC change, and even then I'd be more comfortable with AP3 and a two shot no blast mode.

The bio-electric haywire makes sense but I'd be very, very hesistant to put it into use even if GW seems to be unable to agree on what electricity does.

Honestly i still hope for a clarification that says that transports are never super scoring. Would make WS spam and LR spam so broken that it would make no sense thinking about other competitive lists.

Too bad cause for everything else this edition is quite nice.

Xyptc wrote:
Is Land Raider spam really going to become and then stay "a thing" though?

Nearly 1/2 of all lists I see have 1 Land Raider in the already in 6th. 1/8 lists is a double Land Raider list. I even saw a 3 Land Raider list the other day, but I didn't play it. I've also seen a 3 Monolith list, though that seemed to be somewhat of a joke. The Land Raider is one of the favorite models in my Meta.

Now in 7th, with giant buffs to Land Raiders, I don't think I'll be seeing less of them.

Another note about losing Smash. I've used Smash to successfully take down high Toughness MC's like Iron Armed Great Unclean Ones, or Wraith Knights, or Iron Armed Mephiston. Without Smash, and with the buff to Iron Arm, I'm going to have to include a unit of Poison HGaunts in my TAC list. I like HGaunts, and tend to run a few in my list, but I almost never upgrade them, because the upgrades are too expensive. I guess I will have to bite the bullet, and drop some Devilgaunts from my list.

Lastly, one list that I run that is going to be mostly unaffected by the Version change is my version of Ductvader's Turn Two Tsunami. It was already unable to deal with Land Raiders, but it still got the job done just fine against Land Raider lists, and should still do ok popping Rhinos. I have been wildly successful with that list, and perhaps it will become my standard list.

Xyptc wrote:
Is Land Raider spam really going to become and then stay "a thing" though?

Uncontestable scoring AV 14 all around vehicles? Yeah, probably gonna be a thing.

 Kain wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
" I'm not calling for all of them, just 1 "

The only one that I can get behind is the HVC change, and even then I'd be more comfortable with AP3 and a two shot no blast mode.

So, on a Tyrant, we hit with 1.3. On a Harpy we hit with 1.5. On a Carnifex we hit with 1. If we are shooting at an Annihilation Barge front, with a Tyrant we do .6 HP, with a Harpy we do .75 HP, with a Carnifex we do .5 HP. We have a 0% chance of exploding it. So a Carnifex only needs to shoot at an Annihilation barge for 6 turns to kill it. It is worse against a Lemun Russ or Land Raider.

I agree, I think it should almost be possible to kill 1 vehicle with our best anti-tank weapon per game. We wouldn't want to get crazy, and let the bugs kill a 2nd vehicle in a game.

^ No, that would take all the fun out of it.

We do have a /tg/brew Tyranid fandex under construction on 1d4chan and you're welcome to check it out, post your thoughts, and see what ideas you can put in.

So I still don't really understand why rippers are so good. The meta is still S6/7-spam. That is instant death for those little buggers. And they aren't exactly cheap either. 1 little bugger costs more than 3 termagants. Am I missing something here?

On the other hand, Necron scarab-farm have become more viable due to their spiders being able to pump out up to 9 scarabs each turn. That's a 135-pt unit and 27 Wounds free each turn!


Since, everyone is showing their Lords of War collection, let me share mine as well.

tag8833 wrote:
So we got boned super hard in our ability to take out mech. The nerfing was so complete that I would assume that some of our wargear is going to have to be updated to make tyranids function against super-scoring Land Raiders, Drop Pods and Rhinos.

Right now I'm eying an Eldar Ally to provide my anti-tank. However, since this is a thread about being positive. Here are some wargear suggestions that might make Tyranids playable in 7th.

These suggestions could all fix the problem. I'm not calling for all of them, just 1
1) Warp Lance range upped to 48", and AP set back to AP:1. This would make it useful in most games, and prevent the vehicles from running from the super slow Zoenthropes.
2) Exocrine Has either Lance, Haywire, or Armorbane.
3) TL-Devourers with BL worms gets lance.
4) Trygon Shooting becomes haywire (makes sense from the fluff)
5) Crone gets D6 vector strike hits against vehicles.
6) Crushing Claws reduced to 5 points, and can be swapped in for STs on any TMC, and Bio-plasma (on Carnifexes) upped to 24" range.
7) All tails get Armorbane or Haywire. <- Look I just made tails useful.
8) HVC becomes S9 Assault 3, AP:2.
9) Rupture Cannon becomes S10 Assault 8, AP:2
10) Synapse grants Armorbane in close combat. <- Makes no, sense, but neither does Invincible Land Raiders.
11) Impaler Cannon become Melta, and get AP:1 or a longer range or something.
12) Scything Talons become AP:1 when wield by a TMC.
13) Carnifexes become beasts.
14) Mawloc's Terror from the Deep become Ordinance, AP:1, and is resolved against back armor.
15) Deathspitters become S8, AP:1, Assault 1, Melta <- look I just made Deathspitters worth it, and now Tyranids have Melta just like most other codexes.

Add to the Pyrovore template the following rule:

Melting point: Vehicles models hit by this weapon have the AV reduced on all side by 2 for a turn.

Add to the Acid Blood rule the following:

"In addition, models with this rule count all their meele weapons as having the Armourbane rule"

Add the following rule to Stranglewebs:

Entangle: Roll a dice for every vehicle model hit by this weapon. On a 5+ the vehicle is immobilized for a turn.


These would be enough. We struggle against vehicles by design, we don't want to become efficient at hunting them. Just mixing up a bit of anti vehicle in our seldom considered choices would be enough.

 jy2 wrote:
So I still don't really understand why rippers are so good. The meta is still S6/7-spam. That is instant death for those little buggers.

They're not really good, they're just less terrible.

Being able to super-score at least gives them a reason to be in the Troops slot. With the changes to area terrain and cover saves, it's also really easy to keep such small models 25% obscured.

Also with super-scoring Land Raiders now possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see that S6/7 meta shift fairly quickly.

Troop raiders can only be done by BA and deathwing DA unless I am missing someone?

(no, not inquisition! they are NOT troops, they are elites, and if they are main the score. unless FAQs change anything, their raiders will not be securing.)

Black Templars can use LRCs as Troops too.

 jy2 wrote:
So I still don't really understand why rippers are so good. The meta is still S6/7-spam. That is instant death for those little buggers. And they aren't exactly cheap either. 1 little bugger costs more than 3 termagants. Am I missing something here?

Rippers are very low maintenance scoring units. For basically gant pricing, you get 1 less wound, but gain stealth and fearless. Combine with shrouding from a venom and they'll be hard to shoot down. I think the most crucial part is their size. If stronghold assault is mainstream now, you can add a single defense piece to your Bastion, and that will block LoS completely. Also, their IB really isn't that deadly.

I can't see any point in deploying non-ruins terrain anymore. It will just slow down my Nids and mess up deployment and be an annoying reminder of when we had actual staying power.

 jifel wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
So I still don't really understand why rippers are so good. The meta is still S6/7-spam. That is instant death for those little buggers. And they aren't exactly cheap either. 1 little bugger costs more than 3 termagants. Am I missing something here?

Rippers are very low maintenance scoring units. For basically gant pricing, you get 1 less wound, but gain stealth and fearless. Combine with shrouding from a venom and they'll be hard to shoot down. I think the most crucial part is their size. If stronghold assault is mainstream now, you can add a single defense piece to your Bastion, and that will block LoS completely. Also, their IB really isn't that deadly.

Ld5 with feed is the issue. Though a lone ripper swarm could feasibly hide on an objective.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
So I still don't really understand why rippers are so good. The meta is still S6/7-spam. That is instant death for those little buggers. And they aren't exactly cheap either. 1 little bugger costs more than 3 termagants. Am I missing something here?

Rippers are very low maintenance scoring units. For basically gant pricing, you get 1 less wound, but gain stealth and fearless. Combine with shrouding from a venom and they'll be hard to shoot down. I think the most crucial part is their size. If stronghold assault is mainstream now, you can add a single defense piece to your Bastion, and that will block LoS completely. Also, their IB really isn't that deadly.

Ld5 with feed is the issue. Though a lone ripper swarm could feasibly hide on an objective.

Rippers with feed are much better than horms with feed...only 9 s3 attacks instead of 30 s3 attacks.

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
So I still don't really understand why rippers are so good. The meta is still S6/7-spam. That is instant death for those little buggers. And they aren't exactly cheap either. 1 little bugger costs more than 3 termagants. Am I missing something here?

Rippers are very low maintenance scoring units. For basically gant pricing, you get 1 less wound, but gain stealth and fearless. Combine with shrouding from a venom and they'll be hard to shoot down. I think the most crucial part is their size. If stronghold assault is mainstream now, you can add a single defense piece to your Bastion, and that will block LoS completely. Also, their IB really isn't that deadly.

Ld5 with feed is the issue. Though a lone ripper swarm could feasibly hide on an objective.

Rippers with feed are much better than horms with feed...only 9 s3 attacks instead of 30 s3 attacks.

Assuming they don't eat themselves or break when they start losing assault.

Which is quite a dangerous assumption to make.