The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**Spoletta**

60% wounds means that if an attack would do an average of 1 wound to a simplefex it would cause an average of 0.6 wounds on a crushfex, which is to say that it takes 66% more shots of that type to go down.

Now for the math you requested:

Compared to a T6 2+ a T7 3+:

S3 - Any AP - Suffers no wounds
S4 - AP 4 or higher - Suffer 100% more wounds
S4 - AP 3 - Suffer 600% more wounds
S4 - AP 2 - Suffer the same number of wounds
S5 - AP 4 or higher - Suffers same number of wounds
S5 - AP 3 - Suffers 300% wounds
S5 - AP 2 - Suffers 50% wounds
S6 - AP 4 or higher - Suffers 132% wounds
S6 - AP 3 - Suffers 396% wounds
S6 - AP 2 - Suffers 66% wounds
S7 - AP 4 or higher - Suffers 150% wounds
S7 - AP 3 - Suffers 450% wounds
S7 - AP 2 - Suffers 75% wounds
S8 - AP 4 or higher - Suffers 160% wounds
S8 - AP 3 - Suffers 480% wounds
S8 - AP 2 - Suffers 80% wounds
S9-10 - AP 4 or higher - Suffer 200% wounds
S9-10 - AP 3 - Suffer 600% wounds
S9-10 - AP 2 - Suffer same number of wounds

Naturally it loses badly on AP 3 and gains grounds against AP 2. On the other AP values it's always equal or worse. The biggest benefit is immunity to S3.

**DarkStarSabre**

tetrisphreak wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
I already have one painted and used it before the update because the model is awesome. So no one can complain about me using it now!

I will be picking up a second as well as a couple stone crushers and a Dimmy!

What are peoples thoughts on the stonecrusher now?

Well if you go by the past 2 pages of the thread the stonecrusher is absolute garbage because it doesn't move 18" a turn and auto win games.

Personally I like its abilities, ap2 s10 hammer of wrath is great. I will miss it's 2+ save however. But it got cheaper. All in all a good side grade.

Points cost for performance - as you said, it got cheaper. It getting cheaper will lean better in its favour.

It got cheaper and got AP 2 HoW hits. So a nice barrage of AP 2 at I10 is always a positive thing really.

**SHUPPET**

Anyone got a link to the new stats for FW models? I feel a bit out of the loop here

**jy2**

tetrisphreak wrote:
@jy2 - please get some pics of the dimey conversion. I'd like to see if they managed one that looks better than the FW version

Sure thing!

Eldercaveman wrote:

Come on guys, if you do well at a major G.T like that how else are we suppose to carry on fooling the world that our book is terrible! Stop stealing all the fun for everyone!

Just kidding, I want a 1,2,3 from the bugs!

What opponents have you had so far?

While I didn't play against Eldar or Tau yet, I actually did have some pretty tough matchups.

Round 1, I played against Drop Pod marines with Marneus Calgar, 50 tacticals and 20 sternguards, all in drop pods. My deployment zone had only a small, small patch of terrain and he went 1st!

Round 2 I went up against SabrX's AV13 Sisters. That was 9 AV13 tanks (repressors and exorcists) and an Imperial Knight!

Finally, on round 3, I went up against White Scars with large AM blob squad in the Relic....where he went 1st!

In any case, you can expect full batreps in a few days.

**SHUPPET**

I expect you absolutely dominated that first match up lol.

Second one sounds hard, definitely interested to see how you pulled that one off.

Bring on the battlereports and photos!

**Eldercaveman**

Looking at Torrent of fire there isn't any really high placing Eldar players at the moment. Id love to see InControl take the whole thing, obviously I'd like to see you take the whole hung Jy but at the moment it seems more likely to be InControls.

**xttz**

SHUPPET wrote:Anyone got a link to the new stats for FW models? I feel a bit out of the loop here

http://i.imgur.com/T6qgdzD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OExyDqv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLFksli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

coredump wrote:
running the numbers, the SC fex isn't much different than a regular fex with AG and CCLaws. Fleet ends up making a pretty significant contribution to damage output.

When I first heard of the rules, I thought the flail upgrade gave you both weapons (wrecker claw and flail) and you could choose which one you use. But apparently that is not the case.

Also, it seems like the SCfex does not have two pairs of weapons, and thus does not get that extra attack.

The HoW attacks from the Stonecrusher are way more effective than a regular Fex. AP2 will ignore any armour save and have a chance to nuke vehicles outright, and they come with Armourbane / Monster Hunter to boot. Unless there are some invuln saves in play, Stonecrusher HoW attacks are virtually always going to cause damage. I keep forgetting to email FW and ask if you can take them as 'Carnifex Broods' in formations like Wrecker Node etc. D3+1 HoW attacks would even more be amazing.

Wrecker claws are the obvious answer to heavy fortifications (like the new AV15 stuff) and slow-moving objective-sitters like Land Raiders and Monoliths. They're pretty niche, but if you're having trouble with AV14/15 in your local meta this is the answer. The Bio-flail will ruin the day of most MCs and elite infantry without solid invuln saves - were I up against one, I'd be keeping my Terminators and Wraithknights well away. The Stonecrusher also becomes very difficult to tarpit here.

The Stonecrusher Fex is by no means an auto-include, but it does give new options to deal with certain situations we may have struggled with before.

**Eldercaveman**

xttz wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:Anyone got a link to the new stats for FW models? I feel a bit out of the loop here

http://i.imgur.com/T6qgdzD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OExyDqv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLFksli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

coredump wrote:
running the numbers, the SC fex isn't much different than a regular fex with AG and CCLaws. Fleet ends up making a pretty significant contribution to damage output.

When I first heard of the rules, I thought the flail upgrade gave you both weapons (wrecker claw and flail) and you could choose which one you use. But apparently that is not the case.

Also, it seems like the SCfex does not have two pairs of weapons, and thus does not get that extra attack.

The HoW attacks from the Stonecrusher are way more effective than a regular Fex. AP2 will ignore any armour save and have a chance to nuke vehicles outright, and they come with Armourbane / Monster Hunter to boot. Unless there are some invuln saves in play, Stonecrusher HoW attacks are virtually always going to cause damage. I keep forgetting to email FW and ask if you can take them as 'Carnifex Broods' in formations like Wrecker Node etc. D3+1 HoW attacks would even more be amazing.

Wrecker claws are the obvious answer to heavy fortifications (like the new AV15 stuff) and slow-moving objective-sitters like Land Raiders and Monoliths. They're pretty niche, but if you're having trouble with AV14/15 in your local meta this is the answer. The Bio-flail will ruin the day of most MCs and elite infantry without solid invuln saves - were I up against one, I'd be keeping my Terminators and Wraithknights well away. The Stonecrusher also becomes very difficult to tarpit here.

The Stonecrusher Fex is by no means an auto-include, but it does give new options to deal with certain situations we may have struggled with before.

A few of them charging a Knight will put some serious hurt on that with HoW as well.

A wrecker Brood of Stonecrushers sound amazing! Definitely worth a question!

**SHUPPET**

I don't think InControl can keep rolling sixes and I think now that the other guy just below can keep getting his points back off the Dimmy now that he's near the top of my ladder

Be nice to see one of them pull through to first though. I'm hoping Jy ladders the highest since he's part of our little tactics discussion. If the Dimmy or two both finish extremely highly I'll be forced to take another look at it - but I'm thinking now that player skill may have evened itself out a little, they might start seeing diminishing returns. Can only wait and see. I'd rather InControl doesn't win as I don't really like the guy for basically being the charlatan of Starcraft, and not much different in 40k, but unfortunately I think he's got the best chance since his gimmick doesn't lean on having bad opponents.

Good luck to him and all three of them anyway, won't be sad to see any Tyranids at top regardless how it plays out. Definitely interesting. Wish badly that I could be there ;(

**Traceoftoxin**

Maelstrom missions force you to leave your deployment zone to score points every turn, meanin you can't hide from the Dima.

**Eldercaveman**

I think we forget how significant a boost the Marlstrom missions are for our army.

We have to be mobile. So that doesn't make a difference to us, some lists and armies cannot afford to move because of the effects it takes on their firepower. This benefits us massively.

**Tarnag**

xttz wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:Anyone got a link to the new stats for FW models? I feel a bit out of the loop here

http://i.imgur.com/T6qgdzD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OExyDqv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLFksli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

coredump wrote:
running the numbers, the SC fex isn't much different than a regular fex with AG and CCLaws. Fleet ends up making a pretty significant contribution to damage output.

When I first heard of the rules, I thought the flail upgrade gave you both weapons (wrecker claw and flail) and you could choose which one you use. But apparently that is not the case.

Also, it seems like the SCfex does not have two pairs of weapons, and thus does not get that extra attack.

The HoW attacks from the Stonecrusher are way more effective than a regular Fex. AP2 will ignore any armour save and have a chance to nuke vehicles outright, and they come with Armourbane / Monster Hunter to boot. Unless there are some invuln saves in play, Stonecrusher HoW attacks are virtually always going to cause damage. I keep forgetting to email FW and ask if you can take them as 'Carnifex Broods' in formations like Wrecker Node etc. D3+1 HoW attacks would even more be amazing.

Wrecker claws are the obvious answer to heavy fortifications (like the new AV15 stuff) and slow-moving objective-sitters like Land Raiders and Monoliths. They're pretty niche, but if you're having trouble with AV14/15 in your local meta this is the answer. The Bio-flail will ruin the day of most MCs and elite infantry without solid invuln saves - were I up against one, I'd be keeping my Terminators and Wraithknights well away. The Stonecrusher also becomes very difficult to tarpit here.

The Stonecrusher Fex is by no means an auto-include, but it does give new options to deal with certain situations we may have struggled with before.

I don't think I realized that you could choose to use the sweep attack or not. That makes the Flail a better option, although I do hope that it's clarified that it counts as a pair of weapons (the pair of claws uses the terminology pair so I'd think that it would count for the +1).

I doubt we'll be able to take these guys as a part of the normal Carnifex formations, just because they seem to be a separate entity altogether. D3+1 of the HoW hits would be amazing though!

**SHUPPET**

Stonecrushers look good. Malanthrope seems pretty meh, I'd rathera a Zoey + Venom, or just a venom and my 50 pts back to turn a squad of Gants into Warriors for Synapse. Or just 2 Venoms. What's so great about these guys again? Doesn't read like a 100 pt model but maybe I'm missing something.

**Tarnag**

SHUPPET wrote:
Stonecrushers look good. Malanthrope seems pretty meh, I'd rathera a Zoey + Venom, or just a venom and my 50 pts back to turn a squad of Gants into Warriors for Synapse. Or just 2 Venoms. What's so great about these guys again? Doesn't read like a 100 pt model but maybe I'm missing something.

I'm jazzed about them just because it won't be instagibbed by missile launchers or anything ignores cover, it's more durable and has regen. The Synapse and the other abilities are just icing on the cake for me. I usually take two Venomthropes but one Malanthrope is just slightly cheaper and seems to perform the role I want better (midfield Shrouded). For the backfield Venomthropes might be better, but if you play midfield and aggressive like 7th rewards I think the Malanthrope has the edge.

**tetrisphreak**

SHUPPET wrote:
Stonecrushers look good. Malanthrope seems pretty meh, I'd rathera a Zoey + Venom, or just a venom and my 50 pts back to turn a squad of Gants into Warriors for Synapse. Or just 2 Venoms. What's so great about these guys again? Doesn't read like a 100 pt model but maybe I'm missing something.

Malanthrope breakdown:

5 pts less than 2 venomthropes
Same # of wounds as 2 venomthropes
Synapse creature
+1 toughness as venomthropes
Spore cloud
3+ armor (can save vs SMS, impaler cannons etc)
Grants preferred enemy after winning melee (situational but still a bonus)
Slightly smaller footprint than 2 VTs (drawback for spore cloud, benefit vs blasts/templates)
Challenge shenanigans (again situational but still a bonus)
Regeneration (this one is huge!)
Move through cover and fleet - it can keep up with the foot horde.

So for 5 pts less you get the overall effect of 2 T5 venomthropes. Factor in the synapse a zoanthrope would provide and the regeneration and it's 85 points "more efficient". It's harder to hide from LOS since it's 2x taller than the thropes, but the benefits now far outweigh the drawbacks.

**xttz**

As well as providing Synapse, SitW and Shrouded wrapped up in a tougher-than-normal package, the Malanthope makes a great supporting unit for melee. With Fleet and MTC it can keep up with most of our combat units well enough, and makes a good candidate to absorb overwatch fire thanks to T5, decent saves and Regen.
Once in combat with a unit, it has two useful abilities. Firstly it has a 50% chance of neutralising a troublesome Character with a pseudo-challenge (useful if there's a powerfist/klaw lurking in the enemy unit that would be a threat to Warriors, Shrikes, etc). After that, 2+ poison attacks at S5 and toxic miasma have a decent chance of inflicting some pain. Should you win the combat, the Malanthrope then starts dishing out Preferred Enemy to nearby units, becoming even stronger. It's certainly a nicer way to get PE than spending ~300pts on a Swarmlord.

**fartherthanfar**

@ JY2 Im just curious if any of the top Nids players are fielding Tyranid Warriors in the GT?

**pinecone77**

jy2 wrote:

BAY AREA OPEN (BAO) GT TYRANID NEWSFLASH!!!

I apologize for not putting up my Dimachaeron report, but I've been busy with BAO GT. Anyways, here's a little update about the BAO. It is a 2-day 6-game GT and Day #1 is already done (3 games each day). It is about 128 players.

After Day #1, there are 3 Tyranid players in the Top 13!

At 13th is yours truly and his Hive Fleet Pandora, or should I say Sky Fleet Pandora. I am bringing Skyblight and so far, I am 2-0-1 (W-L-D).

At 2nd place is a Tyranid player who so far is a perfect 3-0. Guess what he brought? A converted Dimarchaeron!

And at 1st is Team Zero Comp's very own....Jeff "InControl" Robinson! He is running a Barbed Hierodule and he has been crushing his opponents. Part of the reason was because his Hierodule was on fire ! He had 5-6 stomp attacks where he rolled 's on the Stomp table!

My goal isn't really to win the tournament. It is to try to win Best Tyranids. But I really have my work cut out for me, since they are now at 1st and 2nd place overall. Heck, if I can get Best Tyranid player, perhaps I can even potentially win it all! But I dare not dream that far....

More updates tomorrow.

News like this cheers me up to no end!

**Tyran**

I always find it funny that -I being both a Starcraft (Zerg) and Tyranid player- Jeff "InControl" Robinson is in everything!!!

**Spoletta**

SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think InControl can keep rolling sixes...

According to TOF indeed he didn't and just lost against the SM + IK of Steve Sisk.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Contrarily our resident dakkanid trampled over the IG.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Matthew Evans Dimacherion makes a mess of Necrons! Could we have been really wrong in judging the new guy??

**tetrisphreak**

I said from the start I liked dime's rules. I like seeng a player do well with one at the BAO

**coredump**

tetrisphreak wrote:
@jy2 - please get some pics of the dimey conversion. I'd like to see if they managed one that looks better than the FW version

Well, assuming there are not two different Dima-conversions at BAO...

Here is the painted and unpainted versions...

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/802266

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/802056

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xttz wrote:

The HoW attacks from the Stonecrusher are way more effective than a regular Fex. AP2 will ignore any armour save and have a chance to nuke vehicles outright, and they come with Armourbane / Monster Hunter to boot. Unless there are some invuln saves in play, Stonecrusher HoW attacks are virtually always going to cause damage.

But that is only on HoW attacks.

So lets review this. (assuming HoW rolls average of 2)
SC gets:
2 S10 AP2 Armorbane attacks
3 S10 AP2 attacks reroll armor pens

Fex with CCLaws and AG (same cost) gets:
2 S9 AP- attacks
5 S10 AP2 armorbane attacks.

Armorbane is better than rerolling Pens. Even if the CC fex skips its HoW attacks, it is *still* better than the SC fex.

Looking at subsequent rounds:

SCfex gets 2 S10 AP2 armorbane
CCfex gets 4 S10 AP2 armorbane

Now, the SCfex does get the -1S to shooting attacks, but the CC fex gets Fleet, so it can close the distance faster and less likely to fail the charge roll.

**Spoletta**

Correction, it seems that in the end that win counted as a draw, so we now got 2 nids at WWWD and one at WWWL. Go Nids!!

**Gray1378**

Glad to see the Dima kicking ass and taking names. I knew this thing would be a beast along with the crushing fex/malanthropes we finally have some very viable units.

**coredump**

Just confirmed, it *is* the same Dimathingy conversion.

(The legs are from a Bugs Life toy... don't tell GW...

)

**Spoletta**

Hmm there is something wrong in the TOF reports.

After the match Matthew is at WWWD, but his opponent is at WWWW. At the same time the match result is Matthew winner.

**coredump**

Spoletta wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
I don't think InControl can keep rolling sixes...

According to TOF indeed he didn't and just lost against the SM + IK of Steve Sisk.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Contrarily our resident dakkanid trampled over the IG.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Matthew Evans Dimacherion makes a mess of Necrons! Could we have been really wrong in judging the new guy??

Hey Spoletta, can you see these updates because of your 'hero' status at ToF, or can anyone see them if they sign up?

**Spoletta**

I'm definitely not an hero

Here, cross reference this one http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Bay-Area-Open-Championships/4/leaderboard

with this one http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Bay-Area-Open-Championships/results

and you'll know what's going on.

**DarkStarSabre**

Wait. A Barbed Hierodule doing well in the BAO after all the hate thrown at it earlier in this thread?

I knew I loved my Barbie for a reason.

**coredump**

Spoletta wrote:
I'm definitely not an hero

Here, cross reference this one http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Bay-Area-Open-Championships/4/leaderboard

with this one http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Bay-Area-Open-Championships/results

and you'll know what's going on.

Ah.... I needed to click on 'Tournament App' near the top of the page to get the good info... thanks.

(Oh, and pretty sure "hero" just means you pay the monthly fee.)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkStarSabre wrote:
Wait. A Barbed Hierodule doing well in the BAO after all the hate thrown at it earlier in this thread?

I knew I loved my Barbie for a reason.

You did read where he rolled almost unlimited 6's for Stomp... If I could only roll 6's, I would run the 'dule also.