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2014/08/17 20:06:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I lose 4 T6 Wounds with 12 twin linked S6 shots, but gain a big screen, 3 scoring non running away units and 30 wounds with an initial Malanthrope bonus.
I hate hate HATE moving 30 models like that, but its a bunch of tarpitters while the 4 tyrants are flying around.
Has anyone been running the Bioblast Node formation? I've been experimenting a lot with Skyblight, Living Artillery, and the Deathleaper formation and I'm thinking of switching up to Bioblast next.
Any tips on list building to support it?
2014/08/17 23:55:10
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I've run bioblast in a few friendly games and I find it hit or miss depending on what sort of targets I have. Against people with multiple soft targets, or massed infantry, its a godsend, those chances to split fire your dakkafexes and take out 2 transports are great, and the rerolls to wound help ensure you clear the target you're aiming at. Against people with the mobility to stay clear or heavier armor you need to focus.... not so great.
I've been thinking of running a list similar to this, as regardless of effectiveness, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for nidzilla...
1850, low on OS troops, low body count, but I'm not concerned, should be a fun list against my meta (very little massed firepower, worst I have is a couple raider spam Deldar, but I've found that tyranno's have turned into pretty solid raider killers with the new template on open topped transport rule)
2014/08/17 23:58:24
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Has anyone used the Dimachareon? How well did it work? I'm debating buying IA 4 and am hearing good things about the Malanthrope but not so much about the Dimachareon.
YMDC = nightmare
2014/08/18 00:00:51
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Frozocrone wrote: Has anyone used the Dimachareon? How well did it work? I'm debating buying IA 4 and am hearing good things about the Malanthrope but not so much about the Dimachareon.
Another question: regarding the stone crusher fex, the wrecker claw version only has 2 attacks base. Would switching to the wrecker claw/ flail version boost it up to 3 base attacks since it would have 2 different weapons now?
2014/08/18 02:29:04
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Best use of the Stonecrusher is going to be against lists with high-AV Fortifications / Lords of War (especially Planetstrike and Apoc), or when you know you'll be fighting several tough MCs (like Wraithlords/knights).
Generally they're going to rely on rules like Master of Ambush or All Out Attack (in Apoc) to reach their target alive.
2014/08/18 08:16:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I play Tyranids since they exist and almost always play 15+ warriors, 40+ gaunts and varied the rest every battle.
Never used the no-brainers on tournament (big bugs in 3rd/4th dition, then the winged hyve tyrant, tyrant devourers, tervigon lists, malantai) and always was the best scoring tyranig player in very tournament, even against those lists.
The only problem with the Tyranid codex is, just like in the previous codex, that Genestealers are not worth it where they once were the name of the codex.
The rest of the codex is fine, quite balanced and the gaunt firepower is even better than ever if you field 50% devourer gaunt units with 50% cheap ones in the front.
No, the monster lists are not what they used to be, but they used to be broken, now they are fixed.
2014/08/18 17:29:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Frozocrone wrote: Has anyone used the Dimachareon? How well did it work? I'm debating buying IA 4 and am hearing good things about the Malanthrope but not so much about the Dimachareon.
I ran the following list on saturday against Eldar.
Spoiler:
Nidzilla Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E. Grubs)
Tervigon (E. Grubs)
He tends to run Wraith Themed lists, but his list looked something like this:
Spoiler:
Gunline Eldar Farseer
Farseer
5 Wraith Guard in a Waveserpent (Scatter Lasers, Surican Catapult, Holo Fields, Crystal Targetting Matrix, Vectored Engines)
10 Guardians with 3 Eldar Missile Launchers
10 Guardians with 3 Eldar Missile Launchers
6 Jetbikes
6 Jetbikes
6 Jetbikes
10 Swooping Hawks
10 Warp Spiders
10 Warp Spiders
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
It was vanguard deployment. I got master of Ambush, and thought long and hard about if I should infiltrate the Dimas or the Carnifexes. I ended up going with the Carnifexes as they give me a much, much more powerful alpha strike, and I had 1st turn.
On my first turn the Carnifexes killed 5 of the 6 artillery pieces, and one critical Guardian which took his warlord (manning the quad gun) out of coherence, and allowed my Flyrant to kill him. He rolled really poorly on his turn 2, and I only lost a few gargoyles, and the game went down hill for him from there. He conceded on turn 4.
The Dimas were clear under performers. They contributed nearly nothing. One spent the entire game running, because my shooting completely wiped out one flank. The other one failed a 6" charge (with fleet), and then made a charge and killed 5 jetbikes. Meanwhile, the Tervigon also failed a short charge and Kill 5 Jetbikes, and spawned 17 Gaunts.
No matter how low my expectations for the Dima's are, they still fail to meet them. Perhaps if I had infiltrated them instead, it would have been a different story. I'm still going to run them against a wraith themed list eventually, and I'll give JY2's flying circus with Dima's a shot as well, but my answer to your question, is yes, I've proxied them in 3 games so far. They failed to affect the outcome of any of the games in which they participated, and failed to make back 1/2 of their points in each game. They are not a useful unit; lacking speed and shooting, and reliability, and because my Meta is dominated by gunlines, I will not be purchasing the model.
2014/08/18 21:43:28
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I play Tyranids since they exist and almost always play 15+ warriors, 40+ gaunts and varied the rest every battle.
Never used the no-brainers on tournament (big bugs in 3rd/4th dition, then the winged hyve tyrant, tyrant devourers, tervigon lists, malantai) and always was the best scoring tyranig player in very tournament, even against those lists.
The only problem with the Tyranid codex is, just like in the previous codex, that Genestealers are not worth it where they once were the name of the codex.
The rest of the codex is fine, quite balanced and the gaunt firepower is even better than ever if you field 50% devourer gaunt units with 50% cheap ones in the front.
No, the monster lists are not what they used to be, but they used to be broken, now they are fixed.
This is what I love about the Tyranids, we all have our own experiences and opinions on what works, if a build/list you have come up with works for you then keep using it. Personally I find myself forever writing down army lists with all sorts of combinations, and I'm always tinkering with my army
I find this thread really useful as we are sharing experience across a lot of metas with a lot of different results, apart from a couple of broods (looking at you pyrovores) we have stories and proof from all over the place of our army doing its thing.... eating!
We are the hive fleet, which is to say we evolve and alter our approach based on our experience and what is in front of us... exactly how it should be
Long may this thread continue
Hive Fleet Ngaro 4800 points
Cult of the Red Saviour 1700 points
Zerg Infested Terrans 2300 points
xttz wrote: Best use of the Stonecrusher is going to be against lists with high-AV Fortifications / Lords of War (especially Planetstrike and Apoc), or when you know you'll be fighting several tough MCs (like Wraithlords/knights).
.
Compare it to a codex fex with CClaws and AG.
2014/08/19 06:58:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
xttz wrote: Best use of the Stonecrusher is going to be against lists with high-AV Fortifications / Lords of War (especially Planetstrike and Apoc), or when you know you'll be fighting several tough MCs (like Wraithlords/knights).
.
Compare it to a codex fex with CClaws and AG.
That.
The Stonecrusher has a nice niche but the problem he has is ironically the same problem the Dima has - there just is no way to get him to the enemy lines reliably. He's also in a fairly contested slot (Dakkafexes, Mawlocs, Exocrines, T-fexes, Biovores). That, and as coredump points out his anti-armour role can be filled by a Crushing Claw fex with AG that will have more attacks (5 on the charge vs. 3). The Stonecrusher is a bit more durable against shooting and his HoW is potent but both options still have the same problem - they're footslogging melee Tyranids in a meta of transports and firepower.
I'd argue his 'strength' isn't even in the fact he has armourbane and Wrecker but more the fact he has AP2 HoW hits. And there's the problem. You're relying on getting the charge and on rolling lucky on random dice rolls. At least the C-claw fex's number of attacks are reliable.
Now only a CSM player.
2014/08/19 08:33:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Frozocrone wrote: Has anyone used the Dimachareon? How well did it work? I'm debating buying IA 4 and am hearing good things about the Malanthrope but not so much about the Dimachareon.
I ran the following list on saturday against Eldar.
Spoiler:
Nidzilla Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E. Grubs)
Tervigon (E. Grubs)
He tends to run Wraith Themed lists, but his list looked something like this:
Spoiler:
Gunline Eldar Farseer
Farseer
5 Wraith Guard in a Waveserpent (Scatter Lasers, Surican Catapult, Holo Fields, Crystal Targetting Matrix, Vectored Engines)
10 Guardians with 3 Eldar Missile Launchers
10 Guardians with 3 Eldar Missile Launchers
6 Jetbikes
6 Jetbikes
6 Jetbikes
10 Swooping Hawks
10 Warp Spiders
10 Warp Spiders
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
It was vanguard deployment. I got master of Ambush, and thought long and hard about if I should infiltrate the Dimas or the Carnifexes. I ended up going with the Carnifexes as they give me a much, much more powerful alpha strike, and I had 1st turn.
On my first turn the Carnifexes killed 5 of the 6 artillery pieces, and one critical Guardian which took his warlord (manning the quad gun) out of coherence, and allowed my Flyrant to kill him. He rolled really poorly on his turn 2, and I only lost a few gargoyles, and the game went down hill for him from there. He conceded on turn 4.
The Dimas were clear under performers. They contributed nearly nothing. One spent the entire game running, because my shooting completely wiped out one flank. The other one failed a 6" charge (with fleet), and then made a charge and killed 5 jetbikes. Meanwhile, the Tervigon also failed a short charge and Kill 5 Jetbikes, and spawned 17 Gaunts.
No matter how low my expectations for the Dima's are, they still fail to meet them. Perhaps if I had infiltrated them instead, it would have been a different story. I'm still going to run them against a wraith themed list eventually, and I'll give JY2's flying circus with Dima's a shot as well, but my answer to your question, is yes, I've proxied them in 3 games so far. They failed to affect the outcome of any of the games in which they participated, and failed to make back 1/2 of their points in each game. They are not a useful unit; lacking speed and shooting, and reliability, and because my Meta is dominated by gunlines, I will not be purchasing the model.
Did the Dimas underperform, or did you just over-perform with your Fexes? Kinda seems like they took out the vast majority and left scraps for everyone else.
Which is basically the problem, any other good unit like Dakkafexes and Flyrants can still perform just as well with only scraps left on the board, Dima's are highly reliant on your opponent needing to flood the middle of the board with units, or just positioning issues in general that other better cheaper more durable harder hitting units do not have.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/08/19 12:39:22
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Frozocrone wrote: Has anyone used the Dimachareon? How well did it work? I'm debating buying IA 4 and am hearing good things about the Malanthrope but not so much about the Dimachareon.
I ran the following list on saturday against Eldar.
[spoiler]Nidzilla Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E. Grubs)
Tervigon (E. Grubs)
He tends to run Wraith Themed lists, but his list looked something like this:
Spoiler:
Gunline Eldar Farseer
Farseer
5 Wraith Guard in a Waveserpent (Scatter Lasers, Surican Catapult, Holo Fields, Crystal Targetting Matrix, Vectored Engines)
10 Guardians with 3 Eldar Missile Launchers
10 Guardians with 3 Eldar Missile Launchers
6 Jetbikes
6 Jetbikes
6 Jetbikes
10 Swooping Hawks
10 Warp Spiders
10 Warp Spiders
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
It was vanguard deployment. I got master of Ambush, and thought long and hard about if I should infiltrate the Dimas or the Carnifexes. I ended up going with the Carnifexes as they give me a much, much more powerful alpha strike, and I had 1st turn.
On my first turn the Carnifexes killed 5 of the 6 artillery pieces, and one critical Guardian which took his warlord (manning the quad gun) out of coherence, and allowed my Flyrant to kill him. He rolled really poorly on his turn 2, and I only lost a few gargoyles, and the game went down hill for him from there. He conceded on turn 4.
The Dimas were clear under performers. They contributed nearly nothing. One spent the entire game running, because my shooting completely wiped out one flank. The other one failed a 6" charge (with fleet), and then made a charge and killed 5 jetbikes. Meanwhile, the Tervigon also failed a short charge and Kill 5 Jetbikes, and spawned 17 Gaunts.
No matter how low my expectations for the Dima's are, they still fail to meet them. Perhaps if I had infiltrated them instead, it would have been a different story. I'm still going to run them against a wraith themed list eventually, and I'll give JY2's flying circus with Dima's a shot as well, but my answer to your question, is yes, I've proxied them in 3 games so far. They failed to affect the outcome of any of the games in which they participated, and failed to make back 1/2 of their points in each game. They are not a useful unit; lacking speed and shooting, and reliability, and because my Meta is dominated by gunlines, I will not be purchasing the model.
[/spoiler]Did the Dimas underperform, or did you just over-perform with your Fexes? Kinda seems like they took out the vast majority and left scraps for everyone else.
You make a fair point. My Carnifexes Killed a ton of stuff. My Exocrine essentially made his points back, and got unlucky dying to warp spider overwatch. My Tervigon Made his points between killing 5 jet bikes and spawning 17 gants who did some stuff. My Flyrant was unkillable. Turn 1 he lost 3 hit points, he lasted for 3 turns on 1 hit point despite being shot at twice by a quad gun, and twice by a wave serpent, and once by 5 Wraith Guard. But he was trying that whole time to kill the wave serpent and failed. His main contribution was killing the warlord, and a psychic scream that hit wraith guard and Swooping Hawks, and my opponent rolled Box Cars twice which was epic.
Based on the lists and deployment, the Dima was bound to under perform. The only thing I thought they might contribute is smash the warp spiders. Unfortunately, 1 group of warp spiders never came in, and the other one knew to fear the Dima, so they came in on a flank and used their bonus moves to get far out of charge range from anything but the exocrine which they tried to kill.
This was a bad matchup for the Dima, but the reason he is not a useful unit is that there are many, many bad matchups for him. He is probably situationally useful (Orks?, Drop Pod Marines?). The only time he is going to shine is when you have an opponent that wants to close with you.
There is a demon player that runs 2 Great unclean ones, and 9 beasts of Nurgle. I'll run a Dima list against him eventually.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/19 15:41:34
2014/08/19 14:44:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
This was a bad matchup for the Dima, but the reason he is not a useful unit is that there are many, many bad matchups for him. He is probably situationally useful (Orks?, Drop Pod Marines?). The only time he is going to shine is when you have an opponent that wants to close with you.
Which should be a 100% of Maelstrom games, no?
2014/08/19 14:46:02
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
This was a bad matchup for the Dima, but the reason he is not a useful unit is that there are many, many bad matchups for him. He is probably situationally useful (Orks?, Drop Pod Marines?). The only time he is going to shine is when you have an opponent that wants to close with you.
Which should be a 100% of Maelstrom games, no?
My game against eldar was 100% Maelstrom. That is the only reason the Dimas killed anything at all. Jet Bikes were flying around claiming objectives.
2014/08/19 16:08:02
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Inspired by a thread about Tyranid codex wishlists on another forum, I came up with an idea for fixing some of our space bug woes in a simpler way that may get more traction with our local clubs and stores. Rather than a fully homebrew codex, what about custom formations that focus on specific units we have issues with? They can be used independently and are easy to discuss before a game as they require a pretty small amount of new rules.
With that in mind I created a blank formation template based on the post-codex dataslates, and put together a PDF of 10 new formations. These are intended to help use poor or sub-par units, and fill in noticeable gaps in the army list (such as a lack of ground-based Skyfire and effective anti-armour). Included in these formations are:
The Swarmlord
Walkrants
Combat Warriors
Mycetic spores
Hive Guard
There's still some work in progress material, specifically the flavour text and artwork could do with some attention. But this should be the start of a more practical way to actually use your wishlist ideas - assuming the folks at your FLGS are as chill as mine
The document is available to download here - feedback is appreciated.
2014/08/19 16:28:14
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Anyone have the full range of Tyranid models? It would be fun if we could see a group pic, with all on them from smallest to largest/tallest in a line. That would be really helpfull for those of us that don't have access to all models cause we're still building our army.
-Hive Fleet Wyvern, yay for nids! (around 1000 points)
2014/08/19 16:43:57
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Addaran wrote: Anyone have the full range of Tyranid models? It would be fun if we could see a group pic, with all on them from smallest to largest/tallest in a line. That would be really helpfull for those of us that don't have access to all models cause we're still building our army.
That depends...has anyone here had the misfortune of buying a pyrovore?
Addaran wrote: Anyone have the full range of Tyranid models? It would be fun if we could see a group pic, with all on them from smallest to largest/tallest in a line. That would be really helpfull for those of us that don't have access to all models cause we're still building our army.
That depends...has anyone here had the misfortune of buying a pyrovore?
I have one - it's decent quality finecast too! Came in a huge joblot of stuff from ebay. I painted it up, and after 3 years have yet to use it in a single game.
2014/08/19 16:54:06
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Addaran wrote: Anyone have the full range of Tyranid models? It would be fun if we could see a group pic, with all on them from smallest to largest/tallest in a line. That would be really helpfull for those of us that don't have access to all models cause we're still building our army.
That depends...has anyone here had the misfortune of buying a pyrovore?
I have one - it's decent quality finecast too! Came in a huge joblot of stuff from ebay. I painted it up, and after 3 years have yet to use it in a single game.
Isn't there a dataslate that uses them? Sorry... ...Ok, I'm better no...
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/08/19 16:58:27
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Addaran wrote: Anyone have the full range of Tyranid models? It would be fun if we could see a group pic, with all on them from smallest to largest/tallest in a line. That would be really helpfull for those of us that don't have access to all models cause we're still building our army.
That depends...has anyone here had the misfortune of buying a pyrovore?
I'm selling a collection for a retiring player right now that included 2 metal Pyrovores. The first one sold for $35. The current one has a $10 bid on it. He was using it as a "Counts as" Biovore, and they look really similar.
2014/08/19 18:02:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
SHUPPET wrote: I think missing the scatter and placing a 6/6/6 3+ In your opponents side of the field is never going to be wasted points. I think if you are taking it just for a reburrowing TftD you are obviously better with a Mawloc. Take the TftD for what it is, 50/50 chance of a Repeating S6 covering ignoring blast, or double that with 2, and 8x S6 Ap2 attacks on the charge for 280 pts, and 12 freaking T6 wounds that will either have to be dealt with (every shot pointed at a Mawloc is extremely efficient for you) or ignored giving them free reign to tarpit better and more efficiently than a Garg squad as well as doing a lot more damage, to a much broader range of targets.
A mawloc can tarpit better than a Gargoyle squad? I'm scouting models for expanding my small 800pt army to 1850 and I'd much prefer MCs over having to build and paint 20 gargoyles. But I don't mind going the garg route. My other 2 heavy slots are already filled with dakkafexes.
Can mawlocs tarpit better than a squad of gargoyles? how so? (I'm new to 40k 7e and Nids in general so I'm not bashing. I'm really curious)
Also what are good data slate to use? I keep hearing about Sky Blight but people keep saying its also not as good anymore. What are the top data slates now?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/19 18:40:29
Easy Stable Flying base tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/356483.page
Check out my Tyrannofex Conversion tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334523.page
Check out my Librarian holding fire tutorial here on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314801.page
Sorry... 
