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 Tyran wrote:
Ok, first try at making a list with this.

HQ
1 Hive Tyrant
1 Wings
2 Devourers
1 E-Grubs

1 Hive Tyrant
1 Wings
2 Devourers
1 E-Grubs

Elites
1 Malanthrope

Troops
3 Ripper Swarms
3 Deepstrike

3 Ripper Swarms
3 Deepstrike

Fast Attack
1 Dimachaeron

1 Dimachaeron

Heavy Support
4 Tyrannocite
4 Barbed Strangler

1 Carnifex
2 Devourers

1 Carnifex
2 Devourers

Fortification
1 Bastion
1 Comms-Relay

Tyrannocytes don't use a slot of the FOC, so you might could use the Heavy Support for something else.

Verviedi wrote:

How do I deal with LRs?

Electroshock, carnifex charge, exocrine smash. Honestly? Ignore them and kill the contents. Each LR is 25% of his ENTIRE army. Ignoring it makes it a 1000pt vs 750 pt game. Go for objective points and even use rippers to steal or contest his LR's objective, if it even has one. That'll steam his carrots.

 Iechine wrote:
That requires an opponent who lets you drop a pod with the cargo and then wait his 12" moving WK in assault range.

It isn't as bad as you imply. You get to drop the pod 1" away. It may scatter, sure, but most of the time, you can make that scatter back with your disembark. So the WK moves 12" and you are now 13" away. On your turn move 6", and now you are 7" away and have a 7" charge to make.

However, rather than expensive devil-Gants, might I suggest cheaper Hormagants. With AG on the prime, you now have a unit with fleet to make the charge. You can then run on the turn you arrive to surround the wraith Knight on 3 sides making it more difficult for him to get away. Still a pricey investment that is inferior to a dakka flyrant, but the gap between the two has closed considerably.

Here is my proposal.

Tyranid Prime (Flesh Hooks, BS+LW, TS, AG, STs)

17 Hormagants

Tyrannocite (VC)

total of 360 points. Going to wreck most things in assault. If the Prime were 75 Points like he should be, this would be decently viable. I would generally find this much more useful than a Dima in a pod, but that has more to do with my meta, I suspect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Verviedi wrote:
How do I deal with LRs?

Generally ignore it. Only charge / shoot at if if you don't have a better target.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Yeah so other than those other little details it seems pretty legit, I have massive problems dealing with Wraithknights and I'm already going to be getting a Dima in a pod and I think I'll run a second pod with that unit in it. Even in a TAC list it will have its uses when coming up against other armies.

The solution to a Wraith Knight isn't a Dima in a pod (300 points, easily killable by eldar). It is 20 Gargoyles (120 points), 20 hormagants(100) or 20 hormagants with poison(160) I've taken Dima's against eldar about a 8-10 times now, and the only charges I've ever gotten off on Wraith Knights have been through cover while grievously wounded, and the wraith knight has made short work of the Dima. I ran a Trygon Prime against Eldar on Sunday. They killed it in a single round of shooting on the turn it arrived even with 4+ cover. Basically a Dima is only an answer to a Wraith Knight if the person playing the Wraith Knight doesn't know what he is doing. He will soak up bullets, but 275 for a bullet magnet might be a tad steep.

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a anecdote of a Dimacharon actually killing a Wraith Knight in a real game?

Eldercaveman wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Here is a tactic I'd like to discuss.

Is there possibly any merit in putting 19 DevilGaunts with a LW+BS Prime in a pod to go Wraithknight hunting?

Pod drops down you unload 60 str 4 shots into a unit near the Wraithknight or problem unit, next turn you assualt the Wraithknight. Thats a big tar pit for it to get through, it can single out your Prime and it will eventually roll a 6 to wound it.

Warriors and Warrior Primes are Very Bulky, so you'd have to drop the devilgaunts to 17 in order to make capacity.

Also I'd give the prime 2 CC weapons rather than his stock devourer - the extra attack with his bonesword is far more valuable in-game than 3 s4 ap- shots, especially when you're already getting 51 from the termagants, and an additional 15 s5 shots from the pod. Otherwise i say go for it. The Wraithknight is not a character, so he can't challenge out the Prime and will waste his attacks stomping little bugs. Then all the T. Prime has to do is roll fairly decent to instant-kill the wraithknight.

Yeah so other than those other little details it seems pretty legit, I have massive problems dealing with Wraithknights and I'm already going to be getting a Dima in a pod and I think I'll run a second pod with that unit in it. Even in a TAC list it will have its uses when coming up against other armies.

Also to the comment about a Wraithknight moving away, it's not as easy to get away from that unit as it will just deep strike as close as possible, disembark 6" and then the wraith only has one turn to move 12" away before the unit moves 6" and charges 2d6.

It's also worth noting that if you're meta allows self-ally, then the Prime + Gaunts fills you HQ + 1 troop requirement. So, no need to give up a flyrant if you don't want to (or just go double CAD with 1 Mucolid if you must have a 3rd flyrant). And I agree on the extra melee weapon instead of devourer. You should be giving the Prime Flesh Hooks, anyway, so you are only really giving up 2 S4 shots to have an extra melee attack, which is well worth it in my book.

Finding myself wondering if the Tyrannocyte can move on the turn it DS in?

SBG wrote:
Finding myself wondering if the Tyrannocyte can move on the turn it DS in?

I would say no. Since Deep Strike says that units who arrive in that manner cannot move any further that turn I believe that would definitely apply here. Basically it's the old mycetic spore that has more guns, and gets to float around in subsequent turns which is great because it won't block up your assault lanes like the old ones sometimes did. Hiding behind it for the cover save won't jam up your Old One Eye or Dimachaeron.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Ok, first try at making a list with this.

HQ
1 Hive Tyrant
1 Wings
2 Devourers
1 E-Grubs

1 Hive Tyrant
1 Wings
2 Devourers
1 E-Grubs

Elites
1 Malanthrope

Troops
3 Ripper Swarms
3 Deepstrike

3 Ripper Swarms
3 Deepstrike

Fast Attack
1 Dimachaeron

1 Dimachaeron

Heavy Support
4 Tyrannocite
4 Barbed Strangler

1 Carnifex
2 Devourers

1 Carnifex
2 Devourers

Fortification
1 Bastion
1 Comms-Relay

Tyrannocytes don't use a slot of the FOC, so you might could use the Heavy Support for something else.

I placed them in the Heavy Support because they are Heavy Support, even if they don't take slots.

If you can't use FW, what melee TMC would be best to pod in?

 AdeptSister wrote:
If you can't use FW, what melee TMC would be best to pod in?

Maybe a Haruspex for the 5th wound and wound regeneration abilities. Stone Crusher...

Also considering a broodlord again...being able to choose a pod or not is huge.

EDIT: Too used to using Stone Crushers...forgot he's FW

 ductvader wrote:

 AdeptSister wrote:
If you can't use FW, what melee TMC would be best to pod in?

Maybe a Haruspex for the 5th wound and wound regeneration abilities. Stone Crusher...

Also considering a broodlord again...being able to choose a pod or not is huge.

EDIT: Too used to using Stone Crushers...forgot he's FW

Talking of Stone crushers, they got a lot better with this release as well!

 ductvader wrote:

 AdeptSister wrote:
If you can't use FW, what melee TMC would be best to pod in?

Maybe a Haruspex for the 5th wound and wound regeneration abilities. Stone Crusher...

Also considering a broodlord again...being able to choose a pod or not is huge.

EDIT: Too used to using Stone Crushers...forgot he's FW

Honestly I think the Dakkafex is good enough in melee, plus his normal badassery, to use in a Pod. I know I'm hardly the only person saying that though. Or, if going CC, the swarmlord is a tempting thing. Stonecrusher fex are great in this role, even meleefex wouldn't be terrible. The Haruspex becomes not-terrible, but I'd still recommend a Toxicrene over him if you can get him in terrain.

Personally I'll be dropping Tyrannofex and Dakkafex in there, for a good combination of firepower where I want it and toughness with good CC ability afterwards.

 jifel wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 AdeptSister wrote:
If you can't use FW, what melee TMC would be best to pod in?

Maybe a Haruspex for the 5th wound and wound regeneration abilities. Stone Crusher...

Also considering a broodlord again...being able to choose a pod or not is huge.

EDIT: Too used to using Stone Crushers...forgot he's FW

Honestly I think the Dakkafex is good enough in melee, plus his normal badassery, to use in a Pod. I know I'm hardly the only person saying that though. Or, if going CC, the swarmlord is a tempting thing. Stonecrusher fex are great in this role, even meleefex wouldn't be terrible. The Haruspex becomes not-terrible, but I'd still recommend a Toxicrene over him if you can get him in terrain.

Personally I'll be dropping Tyrannofex and Dakkafex in there, for a good combination of firepower where I want it and toughness with good CC ability afterwards.

If you can't take a Dimacharon, and want a Melee MC, the answer is the Toxicrine. He is unimpressive stacked next to the Dimacharon or any of our shooty MC's, but as an assaulter, he has a boatload of attacks, high initiative, and comes with shrouded.

 jifel wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 AdeptSister wrote:
If you can't use FW, what melee TMC would be best to pod in?

Maybe a Haruspex for the 5th wound and wound regeneration abilities. Stone Crusher...

Also considering a broodlord again...being able to choose a pod or not is huge.

EDIT: Too used to using Stone Crushers...forgot he's FW

Honestly I think the Dakkafex is good enough in melee, plus his normal badassery, to use in a Pod. I know I'm hardly the only person saying that though. Or, if going CC, the swarmlord is a tempting thing. Stonecrusher fex are great in this role, even meleefex wouldn't be terrible. The Haruspex becomes not-terrible, but I'd still recommend a Toxicrene over him if you can get him in terrain.

Personally I'll be dropping Tyrannofex and Dakkafex in there, for a good combination of firepower where I want it and toughness with good CC ability afterwards.

I also like the idea of DS Tyranofex. Shoot even a boring old school Screamer Killer could work, you can Plasma on arrival, then HOW next turn.

Just built my Dimachaeron that came in the mail yesterday and...yea what a hideous model.

Even in FW allowed games, Im not sure I see myself taking him. I wish Trygon was made closer on par to his badassery in CC.

 Iechine wrote:
Just built my Dimachaeron that came in the mail yesterday and...yea what a hideous model.

Even in FW allowed games, Im not sure I see myself taking him. I wish Trygon was made closer on par to his badassery in CC.

Hideous as in you hate it? O.o I would much rather use a Dima over a Trygon aesthetic-wise haha

And it all depends if you're talking competitive games or purely fun. I play both types of games so I can use most if not all of my models at some point.

The new Nid spore pods could make things interesting.
Although, i run a pure 2e army, so i dont get to use the new goodies.

Noctem wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Just built my Dimachaeron that came in the mail yesterday and...yea what a hideous model.

Even in FW allowed games, Im not sure I see myself taking him. I wish Trygon was made closer on par to his badassery in CC.

Hideous as in you hate it? O.o I would much rather use a Dima over a Trygon aesthetic-wise haha

And it all depends if you're talking competitive games or purely fun. I play both types of games so I can use most if not all of my models at some point.

Appearance wise it looks like an amateur kitbash of 'make-your-own-tyranid". Trygon looks awesome and always has, but this edition he (as we all know) is absolutely awful.

Do prefer the Trygon to the Dimachaeron if I'm honest (ofc, aesthetically speaking).

What would make the Trygon viable? Or at least, not outclassed by the Dimachaeron?

Personally I think the Bio-electric attack could be Haywire and with it being able to DS by itself, you could save points on Tyrannocytes elsewhere..

I mentioned that a few pages back. I think haywire would bring the Trygon right up front.

*Pines for the Trygon of last edition*

As someone who has never seen the rules for the Dimachaeron, im guessing its pretty solid?

 Jackal wrote:
As someone who has never seen the rules for the Dimachaeron, im guessing its pretty solid?

Well it's a extremely vicious CC bug, it's only real problem was speed (but it's just been given a huge boost )

 Jackal wrote:
As someone who has never seen the rules for the Dimachaeron, im guessing its pretty solid?

Imagine instant death....pretty much all the time every time. Lots of nasty and usually gets a 4+ FNP once it wins a combat. As the gentleman before me pointed out, he used to just be a slow 6" move MC....but now he's a slow 6" move MC who can jump out right in front of their face! Reliably!

Iechine I'm sort of surprised you don't like the sculpt - I didn't think it looked good until I saw it in person and it's really grown on me, but I like lictors so I was pretty ready to love it I think. To each his own though. Art is art is subjective. I mean, some people even like the Maleceptor sculpt. Go figure (I think the Toxicrene is dope, but again it's basically a lictor genus)

 Jackal wrote:
As someone who has never seen the rules for the Dimachaeron, im guessing its pretty solid?

Its a S8 6W version of swarmlord with instant death on 4+ instead of all of the time, and it only costs 200 points and comes with fleet.

ETA: I know it isn't S8, but it has furious charge, and +1 S on its weapon so it gets there pretty easily.

The big spore mine is practically useless, moving and charging at half speed means it will never get anywhere and even if it does, centering the large blast marker on top of your own model means that you only hit 2 model from the "explosion" , 3 at best, because people spread their uints. Assuming overwatch does nt wipe your spore before they get there, the dmg dealt will never be crippling to your oponent. Also, the ability to charge flyers is a really cruel one, because you will never catch something that moves 18"+ with a 3"move and 2d6/2 charge.

I think the sporocyst is a bad unit, spawning spore mines is useless (as discussed earlier) and midfield synapse can be accomplished with more efficient unit choices, flyrants anyone? Using that unit as an objectives holder is also, not reliable, because it will get shot down very easily, or grenaded from melee. The gun options on it are very situational 18" s5 gets outranged, 36" s4 large blast is not too shabby in certain situations but it is too expensive and will not make its points back. s6 ap4 small blast is just terrible, so going with venom upgrade would be inefficient pointswise.

You are only left with the drop pod version , which is the exact same thing from what I just mentionned but you get to deep strike a unit of your choosing. Basically, You get mobility for your fat potatoes but at a 75 pts tax. Which is by far the best option but when you compare to SM drop pods, it is extremely overcosted for what you get. (No Obj sec, no alpha strike, more than double the points, units coming out of there will be out of synapse which limits the use of the drop to within 12" of your flyrants and and the biggest problem is that the unit will come late during the game, meaning you either have to pay an extra tax for reserve control upgrades or waste precious turns of shooting in reserves.)
Space marines dont have fat potatoes but they can pop vehicles by dropping really cheap multimelta shots, something tyranids will never be able to do for that amount of points.

TLDR: tyranocyte is usefull but tyranids armies will still get outclassed by other armies due to inneficient unit points.
the other 2 options are situational , borderline bad, definately not any must haves with this release so far.

Is there any reason that a Hive Tyrant (or Swarmlord) and a unit of Tyrant Guard can't Deep Strike in separate pods and join together on the other end?

I still think the Sporecyst is a hidden gem. It's a infiltrating LoS blocker that spawns free models. You can park it on an objective drop up to 5 pie plates. It's not amazing, but I can see some of the utility it can bring. And it's definitely fluffy!

I plan on proxying this up to test the new models ...

2x Flyrant - Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs 480

2 Malanthrope 170
Zoanthrope 50

3x 3 Rippers - Deepstrike 135
3 Mucolid Spore Clusters 45

Harpy - TL-Heavy Venom Cannon 140
Hive Crone 155
Dimachaeron 200 in
Tyrannocyte, 5 Barbed Stranglers 100

2x Mawloc 280

Bastion - Comms Relay 95

I have no idea how the big Dima will fare but I want to try him out. The mucolids with sklyblast look fun but probably not competitive - we will see.

In games I have played I have found the top three units now for Nids are:

1. Flyrant
2. Malanthropes
3. Mawlocs

Thought spore mines(and this the mucolid) use the large blast?

And the Sporocyst does not have synapse, just any synapse creature within 6" gets it synapse range boosted by 6".

Instinctive behavior doesn't apply on the turn a unit arrives from reserves.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Thought spore mines(and this the mucolid) use the large blast?

And the Sporocyst does not have synapse, just any synapse creature within 6" gets it synapse range boosted by 6".

Instinctive behavior doesn't apply on the turn a unit arrives from reserves.

You re right about the large blast but even then, a spread out unit will only ever get hit 2 or 3 times, and that is assuming your mines dont die to overwatch (which is very likely with the toughness they have). Lets be honest here, spore mines are absolutely useless.

IB is not a major factor but its something to keep in mind and it does kick in at the begining of the turn after you deep strike.

 cyberjonesy wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Thought spore mines(and this the mucolid) use the large blast?

And the Sporocyst does not have synapse, just any synapse creature within 6" gets it synapse range boosted by 6".

Instinctive behavior doesn't apply on the turn a unit arrives from reserves.

You re right about the large blast but even then, a spread out unit will only ever get hit 2 or 3 times, and that is assuming your mines dont die to overwatch (which is very likely with the toughness they have). Lets be honest here, spore mines are absolutely useless.

IB is not a major factor but its something to keep in mind and it does kick in at the begining of the turn after you deep strike.

Don't have my book on me, but I could have sworn it had a clause about not having to test after arriving from reserves. May just be wishful thinking.