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 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 jifel wrote:
@sinful hero

Good catch, you're correct. Damn, that's really disappointing. Might have to agree then, the Sporocyst won't be worth the points if it's only as durable as a normal SPod.

Basically a Sporocyst is a Tyrannocyte that replaces movement and deep striking another unit with a situational synapse range buff, and reliable spore spawning(3 regular mines or a Mucolid once per game). On the plus side it doesn't crap out like the Tervigon- it makes a set number every turn.

On the negative side, those spores do absolutely nothing unlike scoring shooting sensibly moving assaulting Termagants. And even the Tervigon is a terrible, terrible unit and should never be played. This thing is 4x worse.

They can occasionally shoot if something comes into range and line of sight. Same as a Tyrannocyte of course, but you can spawn mines to help wall off corridors/waste opponent shooting with no additional investment(buying a unit to deepstrike for example).

 jifel wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
You know, with the option of these drop pods, has anyone taken a look back at Genestealers? Depending on what else drops in on the same turn, you could have enough target priority issues to allow these guys to make it into combat.

They can outflank for free. If that doesn't work, why would adding a 75 point drop pod?

Before, an opponent could stay away from board edges and know they were safe for multiple turns. Now, genestealers can literally appear anywhere. But, the make-or-break in my mind is that you can now use Pods to deepstrike some Mal/Venom support and give them shrouded, which completely changes their toughness if they Pod into terrain.

Again, it's not something I'll be using anytime soon, but I would love to watch someone else try and run it to see if the threat overload works.

Stealers were buffed massssively by Spores. Not because you put them in it (you don't, they have infiltrate for a reason). You put the three Dakkafexes in them and suddenly you've solved the critical aspects of Genestealers, being lack of synergistic AT, and no assault grenades. 300 pts for 15x Large Pinning Blast shots a turn (5 hits, but remember even the ones that miss have to go somewhere, and we are on your opponents side of the board here as well), as well as providing mobility to your Carnifexes... The synergy between this and stealers is amazing and allows you to take like 60 Genestealers in the one army at 1850, givin us an even bigger buff to thing Stealers need the most, and that is more numbers. You may be better off with some living Arty for more pinning, or some screening Gargs mixed in there however.

Stealers could be pretty damn dope now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 jifel wrote:
@sinful hero

Good catch, you're correct. Damn, that's really disappointing. Might have to agree then, the Sporocyst won't be worth the points if it's only as durable as a normal SPod.

Basically a Sporocyst is a Tyrannocyte that replaces movement and deep striking another unit with a situational synapse range buff, and reliable spore spawning(3 regular mines or a Mucolid once per game). On the plus side it doesn't crap out like the Tervigon- it makes a set number every turn.

On the negative side, those spores do absolutely nothing unlike scoring shooting sensibly moving assaulting Termagants. And even the Tervigon is a terrible, terrible unit and should never be played. This thing is 4x worse.

They can occasionally shoot if something comes into range and line of sight. Same as a Tyrannocyte of course, but you can spawn mines to help wall off corridors/waste opponent shooting with no additional investment(buying a unit to deepstrike for example).

So as you said, shoots as well as a Tyrannocyte except trades off the immeasurably useful ability to deepstrike any unit in the codex anywhere on the map, for the ability to spawn completely useless defensive mines to defend itself, who won't even be capable of doing this against shooting? Yeah, it's useless.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it useless, but it's usually outshined by other models for what it does. If I have an extra 100pts in a list, I might consider five infiltrating large pinning blasts that makes mini-mines if I didn't want anything else to start in reserves.

Rules question - can a Tyranid Prime hop out of a spore and join a unit of Shrikes right next to him? Can they join him? This sort of gak need comes up in my games, what's the ruling here

 SHUPPET wrote:
Rules question - can a Tyranid Prime hop out of a spore and join a unit of Shrikes right next to him? Can they join him? This sort of gak need comes up in my games, what's the ruling here

Yes. As long as he ends his move within 2" of the unit, as an IC he is eligbile to join that unit. End of the movement phase, i should say for clarity.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Rules question - can a Tyranid Prime hop out of a spore and join a unit of Shrikes right next to him? Can they join him? This sort of gak need comes up in my games, what's the ruling here

Yes, of course, as long as you can move into the required range to join the unit.

The Shrikes can't join the Prime - units don't join ICs.
The Prime joining the Shrikes is iffier - I'm on too many cold meds to process that info right now, but I'm leaning towards no on the turn he arrives.

Currently liking these options for the Tyrannocyte although needs play testing.
I need some more time to think on tis, perhaps there's something golden that I've missed.

1. Tyrant Guard - Perhaps some crushing claws and Toxin Sacs. Flyrant with Obiterax glides down to join them. Unit next turn charges a Wraith Knight or another suitable target.
Or just useful for additional wounds for your Flyrant when he gets low. Decent Melee threat also that can Auto LOS.

2. Venomthrope - Enjoy a 2+ jink before your Toxin Sacs/Obliterax Flyrants charges a Wraith Knight or other suitable target.

3. T'Fex - with Haywire, 2 flamers on a hard to kill MC.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Rules question - can a Tyranid Prime hop out of a spore and join a unit of Shrikes right next to him? Can they join him? This sort of gak need comes up in my games, what's the ruling here

Yes. As long as he ends his move within 2" of the unit, as an IC he is eligbile to join that unit. End of the movement phase, i should say for clarity.

This is ridiculously viable then in a list with triple DS Dakkafex (aka where Flyrants are less mandatory), you can just chuck the prime in another spore with like 17 Devilgants or 3 Pyrovores or a Venom something, put the pod on top of the Shrikes and shoot 27 BS5 S5 shots and get prepared for a big WS5 charge the next turn with Warriors. Could really hit hard.

Why not pod in close with warriors since they cost the same or less as shrikes with a better save?

 SHUPPET wrote:

 jifel wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
You know, with the option of these drop pods, has anyone taken a look back at Genestealers? Depending on what else drops in on the same turn, you could have enough target priority issues to allow these guys to make it into combat.

They can outflank for free. If that doesn't work, why would adding a 75 point drop pod?

Before, an opponent could stay away from board edges and know they were safe for multiple turns. Now, genestealers can literally appear anywhere. But, the make-or-break in my mind is that you can now use Pods to deepstrike some Mal/Venom support and give them shrouded, which completely changes their toughness if they Pod into terrain.

Again, it's not something I'll be using anytime soon, but I would love to watch someone else try and run it to see if the threat overload works.

Stealers were buffed massssively by Spores. Not because you put them in it (you don't, they have infiltrate for a reason). You put the three Dakkafexes in them and suddenly you've solved the critical aspects of Genestealers, being lack of synergistic AT, and no assault grenades. 300 pts for 15x Large Pinning Blast shots a turn (5 hits, but remember even the ones that miss have to go somewhere, and we are on your opponents side of the board here as well), as well as providing mobility to your Carnifexes... The synergy between this and stealers is amazing and allows you to take like 60 Genestealers in the one army at 1850, givin us an even bigger buff to thing Stealers need the most, and that is more numbers. You may be better off with some living Arty for more pinning, or some screening Gargs mixed in there however.

Stealers could be pretty damn dope now.

You forget 80% of what you want Genestealers charging can't be pinned and another 15% only fails pinning tests 8% of the time. So it is a 5% solution to one of the problems of Genestealers, and one that we already had a solution for in various other ways.

I don't think the sporocyst is completely useless. I see it as an objective denial unit. You infiltrate it onto an objective in terrain then it self screens using spores while claiming a cover save. It then just hangs out shooting things all game while the spores harass the opponent forcing them to move away from the spores or waste shots killing the spores.

One question I have is can the sporocyst still spawn spores if it is in close combat? If so then your opponent has to shoot the cyst which takes time or assault it and get blasted by spores each turn.

You have to place them 1" from an enemy model during the shooting phase, but you can do it.

don't think the sporocyst is completely useless. I see it as an objective denial unit. You infiltrate it onto an objective in terrain then it self screens using spores while claiming a cover save. It then just hangs out shooting things all game while the spores harass the opponent forcing them to move away from the spores or waste shots killing the spores.

Exactly what I've been saying. It is both an objective denial and an area denial unit. Hardly useless - saying it is 4xworse than any unit in the codex is hyperbole. If you don't like it then don't use it but it will fit in some lists nicely ...

Five pinning templates for 100pts isn't too shabby. Tyrannocyte does the same, but you don't always want to put more units into reserves. It can find a home, but I do think it's quite niche.

What I love is choosing in the deployment, that gives it some flexibility.

Five pinning templates for 100pts isn't too shabby.

Well I see no reason to take the deathspitters unless you want to save points - they kill 1.67 meqs on average - not very good.

But why would you take a barbed strangler - pinning is situational. It is not as godd against meq/teq/transports as the venom cannons.

Venom cannons allow no armor save unless you are 3+ or better and wounds common infantry on 2+. Heck, it wounds Daemon princes on a 3+. Granted it is a smaller blast but you have five.

Mostly to pile more wounds. I would imagine it might depend on your army comp- Dimachaerons would appreciate pinned units(if not spudding in themselves). The larger template would be less worried about scatter as well.

Is it a dick move to take this list in a 750 point game?

HQ-
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs

Troops-
Rippers with Deep Strike and Spinefists
Rippers with Deep Strike and Spinefists

Heavy Support-
Carnifex with TL BL Devs

 Sinful Hero wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
On the debate regarding Tyrannocytes, Mucolids, and Sporocysts --

Going by pictures at this point, it appears as if the Mucolid forms the center of a Tyrranocyte. This would mean that the ONLY way to get mucolids is to build the sporocysts instead of the tyrannocytes, which are by far the better MC in the kit.

Several ways to mitigate this-
You can always magnetize them(this doesn't solve the problem if you want to run Tyrannocytes AND Mucolids though).
Greenstuff a bottom on the Tyrannocyte. Heck you could model it like a Sporocyst(flat on the ground) with tentacles coming out the sides, or use spare Scything talons for "legs".
Mold tentacles for the Mucolid top.
Do nothing and just build the Sporocyst. Tell your opponents it's a Tyrannocyte.

I plan to buy Mucolids from recasters who will sell it to me at a reasonable price without having to buy a $70 kit for a 15 point model.

You could also buy the Forgeworld Meiotic Spores.

They're a little under half the size.

 Zande4 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
On the debate regarding Tyrannocytes, Mucolids, and Sporocysts --

Going by pictures at this point, it appears as if the Mucolid forms the center of a Tyrranocyte. This would mean that the ONLY way to get mucolids is to build the sporocysts instead of the tyrannocytes, which are by far the better MC in the kit.

Several ways to mitigate this-
You can always magnetize them(this doesn't solve the problem if you want to run Tyrannocytes AND Mucolids though).
Greenstuff a bottom on the Tyrannocyte. Heck you could model it like a Sporocyst(flat on the ground) with tentacles coming out the sides, or use spare Scything talons for "legs".
Mold tentacles for the Mucolid top.
Do nothing and just build the Sporocyst. Tell your opponents it's a Tyrannocyte.

I plan to buy Mucolids from recasters who will sell it to me at a reasonable price without having to buy a $70 kit for a 15 point model.

You could also buy the Forgeworld Meiotic Spores.

They're a little under half the size.

Put them on flight stands?

5 Venom Cannons, hitting 1.5 models apiece (best case scenario) so 7.5 hits, 6.3 wounds, about 2 models dead

5 Stranglers, hitting 2.5 models apiece (best case scenario) so 12.5 hits, 6.25 wounds, about 2 models dead and a pinning check.

It depends on if you need more light AT (Venom Cannons) or more pinning weapons (Stranglers). Since most Tyranid lists don't need help against light armor, but do need help assaulting into terrain - pinning weapons win.

Did we resolve the 5 weapons versus ability to fire 2 situation?

I missed that...

They fire all five at the closest unit from the base. They can't fire overwatch or in any other way. I personally got confused by the white dwarf side note, but just using the actual instinctive fire rule it's fairly clear.

Verviedi wrote:
Is it a dick move to take this list in a 750 point game?

HQ-
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs

Troops-
Rippers with Deep Strike and Spinefists
Rippers with Deep Strike and Spinefists

Heavy Support-
Carnifex with TL BL Devs

Once I took that list, sans the Carnifex and added the Dimachaeron at 750. I've also gone unbound, trading a ripper squad for a Venomthrope. If you do the Dime, you don't have the points for the EGrubs but who cares? You won't likely be going against a Land Raider and anything else the Flyrants can light the rear armor up


I'm actually with Shuppet here and interested to see what this does for Genestealers. I have a number of lists to try and that one isn't number one, mostly because I still need to pick up a few models to run it, but imagine:

2 Flyrants

Malanthrope
Bastion w/Comms Relay

10 Genestealers
10 Genestealers
10 Genestealers

25 Gargoyles
6 Raveners w/Rending Claws
Dimachaeron w/Tyrranocyte
Dimachaeron w/Tyrranocyte

Annnd I just realized that I don't have 4 FA slots.....HOWEVER, this is what Mucolids do for us guys. Oh you want to self ally? Well I can already do that in this list with 2 HQ and 3 troops. But say I only had 2 troops or needed 2 more. You're always going to bring 2 Flyrants, or at the very least 2 HQs (probably) so for 15 points we get an allied slot. For 30 (and 2 strength 8 ap 3 blasts mind you) we get a second CAD (if allowed). That is pretty powerful

Anyhow this list is probably not super good but everything sans the Dimachaerons will be in assault (or have failed their random charge length) by turn 2 in all likelihood. And on the opponent's turn 2 (if he went first) he'll have to not shoot at the Dimachaerons, otherwise he'll just be tied up in combat in the bottom of 2 and top of 3 anyways. Not a lot of players have the discipline to do that against 2 Dimachaerons. I hope you guys are sensing a theme with my lists by now haha

 ductvader wrote:
Did we resolve the 5 weapons versus ability to fire 2 situation?

I missed that...

I don' think there is a clear RAW answer to that problem, but I think everybody agrees RAI that all 5 can shoot.

It is a poorly written rule that was further complicated by White Dwarf explaining that range is from the gun barrel instead of the model as if it was a vehicle. There will be numerous YMDC threads about it until GW releases a meaningful FAQ or the Sun burns itself out, and our species is rendered extinct, whichever comes first.

The Sun.

 Iechine wrote:
I like to think of the Tyrannocite as an expensive biomorph that gives you deepstrike and 5 deathspitters...would I pay 75 pts for that upgrade? Yep.

Turn 2 typically has my 3 Tyrants in the air being dicks to everything on the ground mid field. So nows when I want to keep allowing that to happen, deepstriking MC(s) are a great distraction.

Still havent decided on what MC to send in though.

Assuming FW is not allowed and in a competitive setting:

Dakkafex Classic devourers mulch and can be useful against certain targets, and no one likes a charge from one. They are squishy. One fex alone without cover just cant take the front and center firepower many armies can throw out.
Tyrannofex Tough as nails and his acid spray would reach whatever you needed to after deep striking. He sucks at combat and has low damage output against a lot of common builds.
Exocrine One of the main reasons I never use this guy is his 24" range. Now that he can arrive and spit out AP2, he can be really helpful in removing a variety of targets your Flyrants have already softened up See Carnifex, plus he sucks at combat
Toxicrene The potential for instant death on a variety of targets is promising. He's also a wide model that can use the Tyrannocite for cover when he comes in, ensuring the 3+ cover save at least. He assault potential is promising, wounding anything on a 2+ with AP2 and potential for ID cant be overlooked. He's even squishier than most of our MC's. Some units he just has no business assaulting, and without his cover save his survival looks grim.
Haruspex It's a Haruspex.



A tourney list for consideration:

1850
Flyrant w/Devs and electro
Flyrant w/Devs and electro
Flyrant w/Devs and electro

Bastion w/coms
Venomthrope
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS

Exocrine w/Tyrannocite and Venom Cannons
Exocrine w/Tyrannocite and Venom Cannons
Mawloc
Mawloc

With points to spare...Its an obvious beta strike army. Perhaps lose a Mawloc for a large gargoyle brood for flexibility?

Looks pretty nice! Yeah, I'd be happier with some bubble wrap, so a Pod full O' Melta (tm) doesn't fry your veno in a box before your ready.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Verviedi wrote:
Please tell me why this list will fail horribly at killing GKs.

HQ-
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs (240)
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs (240)

Troops-
Rippers w/ DS (45)
Rippers w/ DS (45)

Elites-
Venomthrope (45)
Zoanthrope (50)

Heavy Support-
Exocrine (170)
Mawloc (140)
Exocrine (170)

It looks like a fine list, but not my "style" I'd want some Tar pit units to tie up all that Force weaponry, till my Big Bugs were good and ready.

The best use for the sporocyst is probably the ability to infiltrate a massive BLOS model.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
You know, with the option of these drop pods, has anyone taken a look back at Genestealers? Depending on what else drops in on the same turn, you could have enough target priority issues to allow these guys to make it into combat.

I've been giving some hard thought to a Brood with a Brood Lord as a possible Pod unit, it's Almost good enough to use as an Infiltrater...maybe as DS it will finally be "good enough". (I'm thinking x7, Broodlord)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Verviedi wrote:
Is it a dick move to take this list in a 750 point game?

HQ-
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs
Flyrant with TL BL Devs + eGrubs

Troops-
Rippers with Deep Strike and Spinefists
Rippers with Deep Strike and Spinefists

Heavy Support-
Carnifex with TL BL Devs

A little bit. Basicly taking FMCs is the "issue" at low point levels very few things can do much of anything. Depends on your local "meta" just how bad this is though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
5 Venom Cannons, hitting 1.5 models apiece (best case scenario) so 7.5 hits, 6.3 wounds, about 2 models dead

5 Stranglers, hitting 2.5 models apiece (best case scenario) so 12.5 hits, 6.25 wounds, about 2 models dead and a pinning check.

It depends on if you need more light AT (Venom Cannons) or more pinning weapons (Stranglers). Since most Tyranid lists don't need help against light armor, but do need help assaulting into terrain - pinning weapons win.

Word. Outside of LAN, I most always want Stranglers.