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Hi!

So for the first time in a while I dusted off the ol' bugs for a fisticuff with some astartes. I thought this would be the place to comment on my tactics, newfound or otherwise and also to ask advice...

I had great luck with upgraded hormogaunts against hammernators, drown the unit in wounds and saves and kept it from fighting anything bigger. My tervigons provided me a significantly higher output of gaunts than I was expecting, enough to hold an objective with three units of about 12-18 of them of them. I didn't blow out any uterus until turn 3.

My Zoops took out a raider's weapons and immobilized one, making it a really big roadblock.

I had a lot of luck with cover saves generated by my venom thropes and I am really looking forward to the new venom creatures.

Issues I saw - my carnifexes kitted for CC underperformed in most cases, CC and ST appeared effective v. vehicles and fortifications, but they were easily punched out by AP3 weaponry. I tried to bubble wrap with termagants, but this was not particularly effective for me this game.

My flying tyrant got grounded and destroyed in a single shooting phase... seriously.

A few questions now.

How exactly does SITW work with regard to astartes? I was told that having "stubborn" prevents leadership reduction, similarly, I was told ATSKNF prevents my SITW from affecting their units. Of the same vein, how exactly do powers like horror and scream work if astartes and GK psykers cannot be reduced in leadership against the power?

I am happy with my dakkafexes, the CC fexes seem to be less effective. How do I make these guys earn their points back better?

I have not yet picked up any of the newly added monsters (crone, exocrine, hentai monster,) what do you guys suggest with regard to these creatures? Is it worth it or shall I just wait for the newer big ones coming out this upcoming release?

Thanks and I look forward to your responses.

 Wilson wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Dimachaeron:5(6) +D3 when outnumbered.

Dima is actually 6(7) +D3 attacks. Don't forget, he gets +1A for having 2 close-combat weapons.

I wasn't counting the charging turn.

In that case....

 Wilson wrote:

Tyrant:4(5)

....should be Tyrant:3(4)

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Dimachaeron:5(6) +D3 when outnumbered.

Dima is actually 6(7) +D3 attacks. Don't forget, he gets +1A for having 2 close-combat weapons.

I wasn't counting the charging turn.

In that case....

 Wilson wrote:

Tyrant:4(5)

....should be Tyrant:3(4)

hive tyrants have 4 attacks basic.
4(5 ) +1 for 2 sets of arms. just like Swarmlord.

resipsa wrote:
I have not yet picked up any of the newly added monsters (crone, exocrine, hentai monster)

I caught that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, yes...we're looking at the meleerant

resipsa wrote:
Hi!

So for the first time in a while I dusted off the ol' bugs for a fisticuff with some astartes. I thought this would be the place to comment on my tactics, newfound or otherwise and also to ask advice...

I had great luck with upgraded hormogaunts against hammernators, drown the unit in wounds and saves and kept it from fighting anything bigger. My tervigons provided me a significantly higher output of gaunts than I was expecting, enough to hold an objective with three units of about 12-18 of them of them. I didn't blow out any uterus until turn 3.

My Zoops took out a raider's weapons and immobilized one, making it a really big roadblock.

I had a lot of luck with cover saves generated by my venom thropes and I am really looking forward to the new venom creatures.

Issues I saw - my carnifexes kitted for CC underperformed in most cases, CC and ST appeared effective v. vehicles and fortifications, but they were easily punched out by AP3 weaponry. I tried to bubble wrap with termagants, but this was not particularly effective for me this game.

My flying tyrant got grounded and destroyed in a single shooting phase... seriously.

A few questions now.

How exactly does SITW work with regard to astartes? I was told that having "stubborn" prevents leadership reduction, similarly, I was told ATSKNF prevents my SITW from affecting their units. Of the same vein, how exactly do powers like horror and scream work if astartes and GK psykers cannot be reduced in leadership against the power?

I am happy with my dakkafexes, the CC fexes seem to be less effective. How do I make these guys earn their points back better?

I have not yet picked up any of the newly added monsters (crone, exocrine, hentai monster,) what do you guys suggest with regard to these creatures? Is it worth it or shall I just wait for the newer big ones coming out this upcoming release?

Thanks and I look forward to your responses.

Welcome back to the Hive Mind.

Shooting > assault. Always give your MC's TL-devourers if you can (especially on the flyrants). They will almost always out-perform their CC brethen.

Hormagants aren't really that cost effective, especially now since they can't get Prefered Enemy easily (from Old Adversary or Swarmie) and now that their Poisoned attacks do not get the re-rolls to wound against marines or other T4 guys. Better to just go for gargoyles if you can.

Zoans aren't really reliable shooters. Unless you take a lot of zoans (the new zoans coming out), look at the shooting as a bonus. They are used nowadays more for cheap Synapse and contributing warp charge to your warp dice pool. Don't expect the type of performance that you got with your zoey on a regular basis.

Venomthropes, while good, are outclassed by the newer Forgeworld unit, the Malanthrope. If your group don't mind using Forgeworld units, check out the malanthrope.

SITW has been nerfed greatly. It affects LD only of psychic units/models but most psychic powers aren't cast based off of LD (only Perils is based off of LD). Thus, SITW won't do much unless an enemy psyker perils while in range of your SITW unit.

That is correct. Stubborn will negate SITW, though ATSKNF does not. ATSKNF just lets the unit auto-regroup and perform normal actions on the same turn. Horror will affect ATSKNF normally, though it won't reduce the LD of Stubborn units. Scream ignores either as it doesn't alter the LD of the target at all.

With dakkafexes, advance, shoot and threaten when in assault range. That's all you need to do. They may or may not make their points back. However, they will benefit the army because they cannot be ignored and will draw a lot of enemy fire, thus giving the rest of your army time to either get close or to kill more stuff.

Of all the "big" monsters, the ones that you should consider the most are the dakkafex and the mawloc. Those are by far the 2 best big monsters. Hive crones are ok and worth considering if you play in a meta with lots of flyers or if you want to run a Tyranid flyer list. The new Forgeworld Dimachaeron is also worth a look at because he is the nastiest Tyranid CC beast that we've got. Finally, what will be really, REALLY popular will be the new Tyrannocytes, or Tyranid drop pods, that will be coming out soon.


Hope that helps.

resipsa wrote:
My flying tyrant got grounded and destroyed in a single shooting phase... seriously.

Note that Grounding tests are done at the end of the shooting phase in 7th edition if the FMC suffered one or more unsaved wounds. No more grounding test for each time a unit hit it.

How exactly does SITW work with regard to astartes? I was told that having "stubborn" prevents leadership reduction, similarly, I was told ATSKNF prevents my SITW from affecting their units. Of the same vein, how exactly do powers like horror and scream work if astartes and GK psykers cannot be reduced in leadership against the power?

Stubborn only works for Morale and Pinning checks, so it has no effect on powers like Horror and Scream. Similarly, ATSKNF also does absolutely nothing to prevent the reduced leadership of Astartes Psykers, it only works against Fear test, Sweeping Advances and regrouping.

Edit: Apologies - The Horror forces a Pinning test, so Stubborn does work against that.

 Wilson wrote:

hive tyrants have 4 attacks basic.
4(5 ) +1 for 2 sets of arms. just like Swarmlord.

Can someone please confirm (don't have my codex with me)? I am 99% sure that they are now base 3, +1 for 2 cc weapons. But if you swap out those weapons for devourers, they go back down to 3 attacks.

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

hive tyrants have 4 attacks basic.
4(5 ) +1 for 2 sets of arms. just like Swarmlord.

Can someone please confirm (don't have my codex with me)? I am 99% sure that they are now base 3, +1 for 2 cc weapons. But if you swap out those weapons for devourers, they go back down to 3 attacks.

They have 4 base (+1 for 2 CC, if they have it).

Terror from the Deep wrote:
A comparison of Swarmy, Dimachaeron and a Meleerant with Wings will be interesting to see how they all fare in CC

Here we are.
I did Swarmlord, Dimacharon, Toxicrine, and Tyranid Prime.

I am assuming the Tyranid Prime has BS+LW, TS, AG. I am using the Dimacharon's Sickle Claws in all cases, and assume he has +1 S on the charge.

The 1st number is damage on the charge, and the 2nd is damage in subsequent turns.

Unsaved Wounds vs 10 Tactical Marines
3.33 2.78 Swarmlord
5.00 4.44 Dimacharon
3.89 2.96 Tyranid prime
3.40 2.92 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs Wraith Knight (factoring in ID)
4.67 3.89 Swarmlord
6.22 4.67 Dimacharon
5.33 4.44 Tyranid prime
5.83 5.00 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs Dread Knight (factoring in ID)
5.33 4.44 Swarmlord
6.74 5.33 Dimacharon
0.67 0.65 Tyranid prime
3.11 3.00 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 20 Ork Boyz and a Pain Boy (FNP 5+)
3.33 2.78 Swarmlord
4.33 3.85 Dimacharon
3.02 2.30 Tyranid prime
2.50 2.14 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 4 Terminators
2.22 1.85 Swarmlord
3.33 2.96 Dimacharon
0.65 0.49 Tyranid prime
2.27 1.94 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 3 TH+SS TWC (factoring in ID)
1.78 1.48 Swarmlord
2.67 2.07 Dimacharon
1.48 1.20 Tyranid prime
1.17 1.00 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 3 Nurgle Bikes
2.00 1.67 Swarmlord
4.00 2.67 Dimacharon
2.00 1.67 Tyranid prime
2.92 2.50 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs a Riptide (factoring in ID)
6.67 5.56 Swarmlord
8.30 6.67 Dimacharon
0.78 0.65 Tyranid prime
4.67 4.00 Toxicrine

So basically the Dimacharon does the most damage, followed by Swarmlord. The Tyranid Prime vastly underperformed my expectations, but that's why we run these numbers. The Swarmlord's higher WS and Invul, and ability to challenge things out gives him a higher survivability, but he doesn't put out the level of damage of the Dimacharon. I always forget that the Dimacharon has Rampage. I so rarely get off a charge on a group of anything that he would need D3 extra attacks against.

ETA. doh! I initially ran the Dimacharon with a D6 bonus to attacks for Rampage. I have corrected it.

Thanks very much for all of that

Did you include HOW as well? That would skew the numbers even more against the prime

5.83 5.00 Toxicrine vs a Wraithknight? Isnt he hitting on 4+'s to begin with?

Hey guys,

I have a few questions for the returning player. Firstly, I don't have the money/don't feel like shelling out the money for Forgeworld models. So a Malanthrope and Dimecheron are off-limits for me (for now). With this said, what is a good, competitive Tyranid list if I don't feel like using the (newly) popular Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? Are Tervigons outdated now? Should I bother with Tyrannocytes if I'm not using the Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? I was thinking of using something utilizing Dakkafexes, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, 2x Flyrant (or 1x Flyrant and 1x Swarmlord + pod), Gargoyles, Gaunts, Biovores, Exocrines, and Warriors (Living Artillery Formation).

Now, I also own a Hive Crone and a Tervigon/Tyrannofex, but I assume both are outdated with 7th Edition. I haven't heard much talk about the Tervigon since 7th, and the same goes for the Hive Crone outside of Skyblight Swarm (which I would happily run, if not for me having to buy two more Hive Crone/Harpy boxes, and paint both of them....). Are these units that I've listed above good enough for a semi-competitive list? I just don't want to get tabled against other semi-competitive lists. I don't really plan on facing a lot of Wave Serpent spam, TauDar, or playing FLGS tournaments anytime soon. But I will be playing against min-maxed Chaos Space Marines/Daemons lists, Space Marine/Space Wolves lists, Space Marine/Blood Angels/Dark Angels lists, and some Necrons.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 Iechine wrote:
5.83 5.00 Toxicrine vs a Wraithknight? Isnt he hitting on 4+'s to begin with?

yeah and he only has 6 attacks so thats only 2.5 wounds...

Thanks! Is toxic miasma taken into account with the Toxicrene? It is doing pretty decently for its cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iechine wrote:
5.83 5.00 Toxicrine vs a Wraithknight? Isnt he hitting on 4+'s to begin with?

He is including instant death.

 Redemption wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

hive tyrants have 4 attacks basic.
4(5 ) +1 for 2 sets of arms. just like Swarmlord.

Can someone please confirm (don't have my codex with me)? I am 99% sure that they are now base 3, +1 for 2 cc weapons. But if you swap out those weapons for devourers, they go back down to 3 attacks.

They have 4 base (+1 for 2 CC, if they have it).

Ok, thanks.

My bad then.

 jy2 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

hive tyrants have 4 attacks basic.
4(5 ) +1 for 2 sets of arms. just like Swarmlord.

Can someone please confirm (don't have my codex with me)? I am 99% sure that they are now base 3, +1 for 2 cc weapons. But if you swap out those weapons for devourers, they go back down to 3 attacks.

They have 4 base (+1 for 2 CC, if they have it).

Ok, thanks.

My bad then.

I can see how often you CC with a Tyrant...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Journeyman351 wrote:
Hey guys,

I have a few questions for the returning player. Firstly, I don't have the money/don't feel like shelling out the money for Forgeworld models. So a Malanthrope and Dimecheron are off-limits for me (for now). With this said, what is a good, competitive Tyranid list if I don't feel like using the (newly) popular Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? Are Tervigons outdated now? Should I bother with Tyrannocytes if I'm not using the Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? I was thinking of using something utilizing Dakkafexes, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, 2x Flyrant (or 1x Flyrant and 1x Swarmlord + pod), Gargoyles, Gaunts, Biovores, Exocrines, and Warriors (Living Artillery Formation).

Now, I also own a Hive Crone and a Tervigon/Tyrannofex, but I assume both are outdated with 7th Edition. I haven't heard much talk about the Tervigon since 7th, and the same goes for the Hive Crone outside of Skyblight Swarm (which I would happily run, if not for me having to buy two more Hive Crone/Harpy boxes, and paint both of them....). Are these units that I've listed above good enough for a semi-competitive list? I just don't want to get tabled against other semi-competitive lists. I don't really plan on facing a lot of Wave Serpent spam, TauDar, or playing FLGS tournaments anytime soon. But I will be playing against min-maxed Chaos Space Marines/Daemons lists, Space Marine/Space Wolves lists, Space Marine/Blood Angels/Dark Angels lists, and some Necrons.

Any advice would be appreciated.

You can build a perfectly good list with that group of figs. Tervigon is a little over priced, so it's not as popular these days. But it can still work just fine. CC Carnifexen do kinda under perform But Podding them in might help with that.

I've posted a list or two a long while ago (in lists) that you may be able to search out... I think the last one was "Out of the Darkness"..... I still use Hormagaunts all the time, but I've never advocated adding in Glands (or maybe not for a very long time anyway. )

 Wilson wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
5.83 5.00 Toxicrine vs a Wraithknight? Isnt he hitting on 4+'s to begin with?

yeah and he only has 6 attacks so thats only 2.5 wounds...

But on 6's he does 6 wounds. That is why I made a point of highlighting that ID was included.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Terror from the Deep wrote:
Did you include HOW as well? That would skew the numbers even more against the prime

No HOW included. Definitely something the Prime can't do. On the other hand. Prime vs Dimacharon and Prime wins 50% of the time. If the prime has 6-7 gants with him, he wins every time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AdeptSister wrote:
Thanks! Is toxic miasma taken into account with the Toxicrene? It is doing pretty decently for its cost.

No Toxic Miasma either. That one is so.... Random that it is hard to quantify and calculate. Plus it is 1 time use.

Journeyman351 wrote:
Hey guys,

I have a few questions for the returning player. Firstly, I don't have the money/don't feel like shelling out the money for Forgeworld models. So a Malanthrope and Dimecheron are off-limits for me (for now). With this said, what is a good, competitive Tyranid list if I don't feel like using the (newly) popular Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? Are Tervigons outdated now? Should I bother with Tyrannocytes if I'm not using the Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? I was thinking of using something utilizing Dakkafexes, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, 2x Flyrant (or 1x Flyrant and 1x Swarmlord + pod), Gargoyles, Gaunts, Biovores, Exocrines, and Warriors (Living Artillery Formation).

Now, I also own a Hive Crone and a Tervigon/Tyrannofex, but I assume both are outdated with 7th Edition. I haven't heard much talk about the Tervigon since 7th, and the same goes for the Hive Crone outside of Skyblight Swarm (which I would happily run, if not for me having to buy two more Hive Crone/Harpy boxes, and paint both of them....). Are these units that I've listed above good enough for a semi-competitive list? I just don't want to get tabled against other semi-competitive lists. I don't really plan on facing a lot of Wave Serpent spam, TauDar, or playing FLGS tournaments anytime soon. But I will be playing against min-maxed Chaos Space Marines/Daemons lists, Space Marine/Space Wolves lists, Space Marine/Blood Angels/Dark Angels lists, and some Necrons.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Here is a basic sketch for a fair to good list:

HQ: Winged Dakka'rant (TL: Brain Leeches) Thorax Hive (Electro-bugs) 240
HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Electro-bugs 240

Elite: Zoey
Elite: Venothrope

Troops: Tervigon, Thorax Hive (Electro-bugs) 205
Troops: Termagants, x20,+10 Devilgaunts 160
Troops: Hormagaunts, x15 75
Troops: Hormagaunts, x15 75

Heavy: Twin Dakkafexen (TL: Brian Leeches) 300
Heavy: as above Dakkafexen Brood 300

Put Hive Commander on a Dakka'rant (Outflank the Tervigon) and that runs around 1710 or so... It should win more often than it loses.

pinecone77 wrote:

Journeyman351 wrote:
Hey guys,

I have a few questions for the returning player. Firstly, I don't have the money/don't feel like shelling out the money for Forgeworld models. So a Malanthrope and Dimecheron are off-limits for me (for now). With this said, what is a good, competitive Tyranid list if I don't feel like using the (newly) popular Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? Are Tervigons outdated now? Should I bother with Tyrannocytes if I'm not using the Mawloc + Lictor + Deathleaper build? I was thinking of using something utilizing Dakkafexes, Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, 2x Flyrant (or 1x Flyrant and 1x Swarmlord + pod), Gargoyles, Gaunts, Biovores, Exocrines, and Warriors (Living Artillery Formation).

Now, I also own a Hive Crone and a Tervigon/Tyrannofex, but I assume both are outdated with 7th Edition. I haven't heard much talk about the Tervigon since 7th, and the same goes for the Hive Crone outside of Skyblight Swarm (which I would happily run, if not for me having to buy two more Hive Crone/Harpy boxes, and paint both of them....). Are these units that I've listed above good enough for a semi-competitive list? I just don't want to get tabled against other semi-competitive lists. I don't really plan on facing a lot of Wave Serpent spam, TauDar, or playing FLGS tournaments anytime soon. But I will be playing against min-maxed Chaos Space Marines/Daemons lists, Space Marine/Space Wolves lists, Space Marine/Blood Angels/Dark Angels lists, and some Necrons.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Here is a basic sketch for a fair to good list:

HQ: Winged Dakka'rant (TL: Brain Leeches) Thorax Hive (Electro-bugs) 240
HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Electro-bugs 240

Elite: Zoey
Elite: Venothrope

Troops: Tervigon, Thorax Hive (Electro-bugs) 205
Troops: Termagants, x20,+10 Devilgaunts 160
Troops: Hormagaunts, x15 75
Troops: Hormagaunts, x15 75

Heavy: Twin Dakkafexen (TL: Brian Leeches) 300
Heavy: as above Dakkafexen Brood 300

Put Hive Commander on a Dakka'rant (Outflank the Tervigon) and that runs around 1710 or so... It should win more often than it loses.

That sounds about right. I could also sub one of the twin Dakkafex broods for Biovores if I'm hurting for points. I find they work pretty well. Either that, or take Living Artillery. The troops list seems pretty damn solid, and is basically what I used to run. Is the Tervigon still worth it, though? That's 200 points of extra things I can add.

tag8833 wrote:

Terror from the Deep wrote:
A comparison of Swarmy, Dimachaeron and a Meleerant with Wings will be interesting to see how they all fare in CC

Here we are.
I did Swarmlord, Dimacharon, Toxicrine, and Tyranid Prime.

I am assuming the Tyranid Prime has BS+LW, TS, AG. I am using the Dimacharon's Sickle Claws in all cases, and assume he has +1 S on the charge.

The 1st number is damage on the charge, and the 2nd is damage in subsequent turns.

Unsaved Wounds vs 10 Tactical Marines
3.33 2.78 Swarmlord
5.00 4.44 Dimacharon
3.89 2.96 Tyranid prime
3.40 2.92 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs Wraith Knight (factoring in ID)
4.67 3.89 Swarmlord
6.22 4.67 Dimacharon
5.33 4.44 Tyranid prime
5.83 5.00 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs Dread Knight (factoring in ID)
5.33 4.44 Swarmlord
6.74 5.33 Dimacharon
0.67 0.65 Tyranid prime
3.11 3.00 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 20 Ork Boyz and a Pain Boy (FNP 5+)
3.33 2.78 Swarmlord
4.33 3.85 Dimacharon
3.02 2.30 Tyranid prime
2.50 2.14 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 4 Terminators
2.22 1.85 Swarmlord
3.33 2.96 Dimacharon
0.65 0.49 Tyranid prime
2.27 1.94 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 3 TH+SS TWC (factoring in ID)
1.78 1.48 Swarmlord
2.67 2.07 Dimacharon
1.48 1.20 Tyranid prime
1.17 1.00 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs 3 Nurgle Bikes
2.00 1.67 Swarmlord
4.00 2.67 Dimacharon
2.00 1.67 Tyranid prime
2.92 2.50 Toxicrine

Unsaved Wounds vs a Riptide (factoring in ID)
6.67 5.56 Swarmlord
8.30 6.67 Dimacharon
0.78 0.65 Tyranid prime
4.67 4.00 Toxicrine

So basically the Dimacharon does the most damage, followed by Swarmlord. The Tyranid Prime vastly underperformed my expectations, but that's why we run these numbers. The Swarmlord's higher WS and Invul, and ability to challenge things out gives him a higher survivability, but he doesn't put out the level of damage of the Dimacharon. I always forget that the Dimacharon has Rampage. I so rarely get off a charge on a group of anything that he would need D3 extra attacks against.

ETA. doh! I initially ran the Dimacharon with a D6 bonus to attacks for Rampage. I have corrected it.

Thank for this - GW tried to sell Toxicrene to me - numbers don't lie. For the Dima, did you also include the offchance that it fails a Ld outside of Synapse?

@Journeyman
It's really up to you. Some people still like them, some don't. If you feel you would get more mileage out of 320pts then switch it up. Writing lists is free.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@Journeyman
It's really up to you. Some people still like them, some don't. If you feel you would get more mileage out of 320pts then switch it up. Writing lists is free.

That is very true. The only thing I can do is playtest them. I'm just glad I have the models still. I just don't get a lot of time to play games considering I'm a student and have a job, and still have to paint my models, so I want to make my games count. But with that said, I don't think taking a Tervigon versus not taking a Tervigon will make or break my games.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Thank for this - GW tried to sell Toxicrene to me - numbers don't lie. For the Dima, did you also include the offchance that it fails a Ld outside of Synapse?

Nope. I did the number only for the damage output. Swarmlord is the toughest once he makes it into combat. Toxicrine is the weakest. Dimacharon is tough but could theoretically fail a leadership. If he fails synapse there isn't much to fear, he just charges the nearest thing. Tyranid Prime is the only one with grenades.

Another thing that didn't get represented in the number is Swarmlord's buffing power. He can give himself preferred enemy or monster hunter which ups his damage output considerably in most cases. I chose not to represent that because 1) I've never had a problem with Swarmlord not doing enough damage against something with a toughness value that isn't a Transcendent C'Tan.

 Wilson wrote:

Terror from the Deep wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Terror from the Deep wrote:
A comparison of Swarmy, Dimachaeron and a Meleerant with Wings will be interesting to see how they all fare in CC

Dimachaeron would come out top as it's hitting most things on 3+ like swarm lord and Tyrants but it's attacks outwheigh the others

Tyrant:4(5)

Swarmlord:4(5)

Dimachaeron:5(6) +D3 when outnumbered.

yeah.. I don't think we need an excel statistical sheet to show which one is better...

Dima has more wounds, is cheaper, is WS8, has more attacks and is S8 on the charge with sickle claws.

Good point, the HT has all the intangibles which can't be measured in CC I guess - fearless, 4+ jink, ML2 and is far more mobile with wings...

fearless is quite a big downside actually that is worth noting! it means you need something with synapse in range to prevent it being run down in the off chance it loses CC.

So on an unrelated note, how would this list far? completely ignoring new releases;

1850 Competitive attempt 2;

Primary Nids;

Flyrant, electro, devourers
Flyrant, electro, devourers

Malanthrope

Rippers
Rippers

Hive Crone
Hive Crone

Mawloc
Mawloc

Bastion

Demon Allies;

Greater Demon of Tzeentch
ML3
Exalted

Horrors x 10

Demon Prince
Mark of Tzeentch
armour
flight
Exalted reward
ML2


6 FMC with demon summoning support.
10 WC+D6 a turn

I may be mistaken, but this list could be pretty nasty, no?

Playing demons 13-14 WC for summoning is not enough if you want to do two summons a turn plus have charge for other powers. Drop the exalted rewards, I assume you want grim / glyph and you don't have enough to really justify both.

Get another horror it is 9 pts for a warp charge.

Get 1 - 2 zoans. I know a lot of people like screamers in this list but with 4 bug flyers 2 demon FMC the screamers will take a up a huge chunk of room. Honestly, I would drop a crone. You have more than enough anti-air with the bugs and one crone. You need more summoning/buffing power.

I have been wondering how Skyblight with demons would do.

All of this talk of Daemon/Bug allies has me more than a little titilated. . . Must go over my collection and make a list. I could see double CAD with this being particularly nasty, though I know a lot of competitive scenes don't do that. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And it is crystal clear to me now why many of those metas do not allow double cad. You could net yourself two Flyrants to add to a strong daemon list for the measly tax of two Mucolid spores. . . something about this is so wrong that I just have to try it.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
All of this talk of Daemon/Bug allies has me more than a little titilated. . . Must go over my collection and make a list. I could see double CAD with this being particularly nasty, though I know a lot of competitive scenes don't do that. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And it is crystal clear to me now why many of those metas do not allow double cad. You could net yourself two Flyrants to add to a strong daemon list for the measly tax of two Mucolid spores. . . something about this is so wrong that I just have to try it.

If summoning has got you excited, then check out my (now completed) battle report:


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons


I don't think most of the metas were thinking about the mucolids when they banned dual-CAD, but the idea is the same - to prevent the spamming of certain super-efficient units.

tag8833 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
5.83 5.00 Toxicrine vs a Wraithknight? Isnt he hitting on 4+'s to begin with?

yeah and he only has 6 attacks so thats only 2.5 wounds...

But on 6's he does 6 wounds. That is why I made a point of highlighting that ID was included.

Well, technically, he does as much wounds as the model has remaining. If he rolls that 6 for his fifth attack, he basically only did two wounds. Or if he rolls two sixes in 1 dice roll, the second one doesn't do anything. Counting every 6 as 6 wounds will inflate the number, as you can see.

 jy2 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
All of this talk of Daemon/Bug allies has me more than a little titilated. . . Must go over my collection and make a list. I could see double CAD with this being particularly nasty, though I know a lot of competitive scenes don't do that. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And it is crystal clear to me now why many of those metas do not allow double cad. You could net yourself two Flyrants to add to a strong daemon list for the measly tax of two Mucolid spores. . . something about this is so wrong that I just have to try it.

If summoning has got you excited, then check out my (now completed) battle report:


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons


I don't think most of the metas were thinking about the mucolids when they banned dual-CAD, but the idea is the same - to prevent the spamming of certain super-efficient units.

cough. Anni Barges. cough.

 jy2 wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
All of this talk of Daemon/Bug allies has me more than a little titilated. . . Must go over my collection and make a list. I could see double CAD with this being particularly nasty, though I know a lot of competitive scenes don't do that. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And it is crystal clear to me now why many of those metas do not allow double cad. You could net yourself two Flyrants to add to a strong daemon list for the measly tax of two Mucolid spores. . . something about this is so wrong that I just have to try it.

If summoning has got you excited, then check out my (now completed) battle report:


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons


I don't think most of the metas were thinking about the mucolids when they banned dual-CAD, but the idea is the same - to prevent the spamming of certain super-efficient units.

Yeah I meant in a more general sense. And yes I've already checked out your battle report Excellent as always. I would have liked to have seen another Nurgle DP in the daemons list instead of a second GUO, but to each his own. I know he wasn't going for a cutthroat list or anything, but I just have such a hard time passing up on an FMC if I can fit it.

pinecone77 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

hive tyrants have 4 attacks basic.
4(5 ) +1 for 2 sets of arms. just like Swarmlord.

Can someone please confirm (don't have my codex with me)? I am 99% sure that they are now base 3, +1 for 2 cc weapons. But if you swap out those weapons for devourers, they go back down to 3 attacks.

They have 4 base (+1 for 2 CC, if they have it).

Ok, thanks.

My bad then.

I can see how often you CC with a Tyrant...

Lol. I gave up with them in assault ever since 6th. Tried it one more time at the BAO in 7th, but that was a big mistake which I probably won't repeat again.





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 astro_nomicon wrote:

Yeah I meant in a more general sense. And yes I've already checked out your battle report Excellent as always. I would have liked to have seen another Nurgle DP in the daemons list instead of a second GUO, but to each his own. I know he wasn't going for a cutthroat list or anything, but I just have such a hard time passing up on an FMC if I can fit it.

Agreed. The FMC is much more flexible.