Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When you have little control over targeting, I'd be worried to use the blast options on the Tyrannocyte. Plus it's pretty irritating and un-fun to be firing 5 of them in a row.

The most powerful options to drop will be the ones with solid firepower on arrival, and a strong secondary purpose for later turns:

Devilguants - 60 S4 shots plus objective secured
Dakkafex - 12 S6 twin-linked shots plus strong melee / anti-armour capability
Zoanthropes - Warp blast and psychic shenanigans plus durable synapse
Tyrannofex - Multiple templates for digging out entrenched units on our most durable unit
Toxicrene - Ignores Cover ID-capable poison attack and decent melee ability with AP2
Hive Guard - three Haywire attacks on a durable unit that's no slouch in melee either

tag8833 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Size comparison. SO. MANY. PIECES. Beautiful model though

Thanks so much for that pic. It made me consider a conversion:

I am actually doing sum thing like this. No pineapple but I used pumpkins with dried leafs. Still have to add the deathspitters on the right hight.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Iechine wrote:It happens, man. Jy2 posted a batrep where he positioned his army out of place to draw the drop pod army out of position for scoring, and since then I've dominated every single drop pod alpha strike army I've faced. This community really is helpful.

Yeah that would have been my plan but annoyingly it was kill points.

Kill points are in our favor vs Drop pods. It encourages them to alpha strike, and if we are properly bubble wrapped, that will hurt, but be survivable. (They should be able to kill at most 1 flyrant, or Crone, or Malanthrope, or Carnifex) At that point we can neutralize the majority of their fire power, and deny them kill points for the rest of the game. Drop pods are the reason we need 30-40 Gargoyles / Gants in our lists for bubble wrapping, and then tarpitting.

Because Drop pods rarely ignore cover, we can withstand their alpha strike better than other armies.

The most common mistake I see tyranid players making is trying to reserve stuff against drop pods. You want everything on the table (except maybe Rippers or Mawlocs).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:
1: I really like the 20 guants crawling out of the pod. with a 6 inch deployment and a run move you can claim 3 objectives at once if their close. 5 spore pods and 40 guants right in front of the enemy can really block the enemies movement and protect the zoans, flying hives and dakkafexes from getting assaulted. their great for assaulting units on a objective and staying their for the rest of the game.

A single unit can only ever claim one objective. But you can have options.

I prefer mixed gants coming out of the Tyrannocyte because 10 Devourers can kill a vehicle with back armor 10.

Noctem wrote:Just bought a Tyrannocite, is there a generally accepted best loadout for guns for them? =O

Frozocrone wrote:What are the best weaons/passengers for Tyrannocytes? I'm thinking Deathspitters just to keep costs down but Blassts acn mitigate bad BS somewhat.

I'm contemplating buying a Dimachaeron or two to go in them (already have two Dakkafexen built, just need the arms for FW).

Depends on what you put in them I think-
Termagants probably wouldn't want those large blasts of the stranglers scattering back on them.
A CC monster would probably appreciate the pinning of the stranglers for infantry, or the str 6 of the Cannons for vehicles.
I like the idea to keep them cheap and not worry about wasting time resolving five scatter rolls. What's IN the pod is more important than the pod itself to me.

shogun wrote:
1: I really like the 20 guants crawling out of the pod. with a 6 inch deployment and a run move you can claim 3 objectives at once if their close. 5 spore pods and 40 guants right in front of the enemy can really block the enemies movement and protect the zoans, flying hives and dakkafexes from getting assaulted. their great for assaulting units on a objective and staying their for the rest of the game.

A single unit can only ever claim one objective. But you can have options.

I prefer mixed gants coming out of the Tyrannocyte because 10 Devourers can kill a vehicle with back armor 10.

Regarding Psychic Scream -

The power says that the Tyranid player rolls 2d6+2 and subtracts the target's leadership to see how many wounds it causes. This is not a characteristic test. In the rulebook, it does state that units taking characteristic tests (including leadership, morale, pinning, etc) always use the highest value of the stat being tested. However since this power is NOT a characteristic test, I think it looks at the majority leadership rather than the single highest value.

While this isn't a YMDC thread, this does pertain to tyranids in particular. So, those here who know the ins and outs of why this may or may not be true, please chime in with explanations and/or page references if i'm wrong on this.

Thanks

I tried out an OS Tervigon in a Tyrannocyte in two games over the weekend (30 Outflanking Termagants bringing him in as a Troops choice). I thought I would mix things up a little and go with Shreddershards rather than Egrubs in her Thorax.

The first game was against a speedy Eldar list and the second a Marine gunline. Both were unaltered maelstrom missions (I forget which now). In both games the Tervigon came in on turn 2 (lucky) and had an impressive impact.

Spawned Termagants accounted for three Maelstrom points in each game over the remaining turns (the Tervigon never actually got to score anything itself), and the Shreddershards managed to push a squad of SM off of an objective (love the Shred/Rend combo). Aside from a couple of blasts from the Thorax the Tervigon didn't actually kill much over the two games, but the chaos it causes when it lands is definitely something I could learn to make room for. Surprise Synapse is really handy (freeing up Tyrants to be elsewhere). I can imagine that a lucky roll of Psychic Scream on it could be great too, but that's not something you can count on.

Overall, Deep Striking a Tervigon gets us over one of the key weaknesses of the unit in my opinion; short range. It's too expensive to sit in your backfield on an objective, so if you want to use it you need to ram it down your opponent's throat and what better way than a spore? It's everything Outflanking one was, only better.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Riptides can reliably get a 3++ on a faster, cheaper, better shooting platform with a 2+ save.

A 3++ on it is far from game breaking.

If you have to compare it to "arguably" the most broken thing in the game then your not using the right standards, and a 33% chance of not only failing to get the 3++, but to take a wound too, is not what I would call reliable, especially since you lose out on other nifty things if you do choose to get the 3++. Plus other stuff I could nitpick about but no need to.


Like I said, I like his maleceptor proposition, I just feel he was going too far with the free buffs.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Regarding Psychic Scream -

The power says that the Tyranid player rolls 2d6+2 and subtracts the target's leadership to see how many wounds it causes. This is not a characteristic test. In the rulebook, it does state that units taking characteristic tests (including leadership, morale, pinning, etc) always use the highest value of the stat being tested. However since this power is NOT a characteristic test, I think it looks at the majority leadership rather than the single highest value.

While this isn't a YMDC thread, this does pertain to tyranids in particular. So, those here who know the ins and outs of why this may or may not be true, please chime in with explanations and/or page references if i'm wrong on this.

Thanks

Even if you're correct and you can use the majority rather than the highest, it's moot. For one, it's a nova power. You're not targeting anything. Also, even once you get down to a psyker and one other dude, where there is no technical majority, you again use the highest value (like with majority unit toughness, etc)

Target or no, the tyranid player still does the rolling. My key example of where this becomes useful is for instance a unit of marker drones (ld7) led by a commander (ld10). Using majority as well as good flyrant placement, psy scream is a great way to kill that tau commander.

Edit - I understand it's good form to play ambiguous rules to the least advantage until FAQ'd, I was just going through the psychic powers and noticed the different wording between psy scream and the horror (both powers are similar in that they use a 2 modifier and leadership, but they are performed in different ways. It's obvious that the horror uses highest ld - it's a pinning test. Why isn't psy scream worded as a leadership test unless it's meant to work in a functionally different way?)

Sorry for the off topic.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Target or no, the tyranid player still does the rolling. My key example of where this becomes useful is for instance a unit of marker drones (ld7) led by a commander (ld10). Using majority as well as good flyrant placement, psy scream is a great way to kill that tau commander.

Edit - I understand it's good form to play ambiguous rules to the least advantage until FAQ'd, I was just going through the psychic powers and noticed the different wording between psy scream and the horror (both powers are similar in that they use a 2 modifier and leadership, but they are performed in different ways. It's obvious that the horror uses highest ld - it's a pinning test. Why isn't psy scream worded as a leadership test unless it's meant to work in a functionally different way?)

Sorry for the off topic.

People have been playing the always-use-the-highest-LD-in-the-unit way forever. RAW or not, it'll be hard to persuade them otherwise. You may even be accused of Rules Lawyering for trying to get them to use majority LD. IMO, it is not worth it to try to argue for this ambivalent intepretation, whether it is actually RAW or not. You're just inviting arguments into the game.

Yea I get that. It kinda stinks to think I've found a real gem and not get to use it because of ambiguity.

Thanks for the input, all. I'll drop this for now. But if we ever get a FAQ to this in my favor I'll make sure to point out i saw it first. Haha.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Regarding Psychic Scream -

The power says that the Tyranid player rolls 2d6+2 and subtracts the target's leadership to see how many wounds it causes. This is not a characteristic test. In the rulebook, it does state that units taking characteristic tests (including leadership, morale, pinning, etc) always use the highest value of the stat being tested. However since this power is NOT a characteristic test, I think it looks at the majority leadership rather than the single highest value.

While this isn't a YMDC thread, this does pertain to tyranids in particular. So, those here who know the ins and outs of why this may or may not be true, please chime in with explanations and/or page references if i'm wrong on this.

Thanks

#1 There is precidence for using a model rather than a unit's leadership to make the test. See the rulebook page 13:
"Leadership Tests:
At Certain times, a model or unit might be called upon to take a Leadership test...
To take a leadership test, use the following procedure:
-Roll 2D6 and compare the result to the model's leadership
....
-If a unit has to take a Leadership test and it includes models with different Leadership values, always use the highest Leadership from among them."

#2 Psychic Scream (Tyranid Psychic Power) is a nova and targets units:
Page 27: "A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic power's maximum range."
Thus it hits the unit.

#3 Psychic Shriek (telepethy Primaris) is a witchfire.
Page 27: "Witchfire powers are shooting attacks"
Thus it hits the unit, unless the model manifesting it has precision shot.

#4 Psychic Overload (Maleceptor Psychic power) is a Focused Witchfire
Page 27: "Focus Witchfire: ... If the total number of Warp Charge points harnessed exceeds the Warp Charge cost required to manifest the psychic power, the power is resolved against the model you chose. If the cost to manifest the power is met, but not exceeded, resolve the power against the closest model in the target unit instead."
Thus it hits the model.

What is this, YMDC?! I'm still waiting on more opinions about Tyrannocyte weapons, and if your choice should change based on the unit intended to disembark from it.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What is this, YMDC?! I'm still waiting on more opinions about Tyrannocyte weapons, and if your choice should change based on the unit intended to disembark from it.

For all the lists I have wrote with them in I haven't found the points to upgrade the weapons, so I'll likely just keel them stock. 75 points is fairly expensive anyway, once they drop their cargo anything else they achieve I'll consider a bonus.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What is this, YMDC?! I'm still waiting on more opinions about Tyrannocyte weapons, and if your choice should change based on the unit intended to disembark from it.

For all the lists I have wrote with them in I haven't found the points to upgrade the weapons, so I'll likely just keel them stock. 75 points is fairly expensive anyway, once they drop their cargo anything else they achieve I'll consider a bonus.

I feel the same. The Deathspitters are a hell of a lot faster to resolve as well, and no worries about bad scatter hurting the cargo.

 jy2 wrote:
People have been playing the always-use-the-highest-LD-in-the-unit way forever. RAW or not, it'll be hard to persuade them otherwise. You may even be accused of Rules Lawyering for trying to get them to use majority LD. IMO, it is not worth it to try to argue for this ambivalent intepretation, whether it is actually RAW or not. You're just inviting arguments into the game.

Unsurprisingly I disagree strongly with the sentiment. There was a guy at my club that played the Serpent shield as a 360 degree weapon. He had done so forever through multiple editions against 40-50 different opponents. His incorrect rules interpretation does not get grandfathered in, nor does he get cut slack, if after having the correct rule explained to him, he reverts to "the way I've played it forever"

Getting the rules right, and consistent alleviates long term conflict not creates it.

I'm done bringing up the off-topic PsyScream because i do agree this forum is for tactics and not rules - i apologize for derailing the thread. Tag8833 has excellent rules quotes pertaining to the power with the exception that he left out that the power itself is NOT a leadership test. The tyranid player rolls 2d6+2, not the enemy who is being affected. Key difference. It needs a FAQ before the general public would interpret the rule in the manner that I do, therefore i'm agreeing to not bring it up as such until then - i just wanted to put it out there for discussion and something to maybe think about.



All that being said - moving forward on tactics. Tonight is my clubs weekly league casual 40K night and i'm bringing this for a 1250 list:

HQ - Deathleaper
TP - Mucolid
TP - Mucolid
FA - Dimachaeron
FA - 4x Spore mines
EL - 2x Zoanthropes, 1x Neurothrope
HVY - Tyrannocyte
HVY - Tryannocyte
Formation: Manufactorum Genestealers
5x5 genestealer broods
3x Broodlords with scything talons

I haven't run genestealers in a long time so i wanted to give them a go. This list will most likely win big or lose big so we will see. I'll let everyone know how it does.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What is this, YMDC?! I'm still waiting on more opinions about Tyrannocyte weapons, and if your choice should change based on the unit intended to disembark from it.

I don't think we can say with authority yet. I also think it depends highly on the unit being transported. If you are bringing in a Dakkafex to pop back armor on things, Venom Cannons would seem to be the way to go. If you are bringing in devil gants, you probably want deathspitters, because friendly fire is too dangerous. If you are bringing in a Dimacharon, Venom Cannons would probably be best to give you a chance to pop transports before the Dimacharon gets there.

@tetrisphreak
It looks like it'll be a load of fun, but why the lonely spore mines? Would it be better used for upgrades elsewhere?

Anyone got some decent ideas about making some Mucolid Spores?
Any specific spare bits that could be used as a shell/foundation for it?
Would making your own out of whatever (as long as it was a fair representation) be ok to use at tournaments?

I just don't want to shell out £44 x6 lol.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@tetrisphreak
It looks like it'll be a load of fun, but why the lonely spore mines? Would be better for upgrades elsewhere?

I had 23 points and manufactorum genestealers can't add any genestealers. Dimachaeron and deathelaper don't have access to biomorphs. Not enough for an extra zoey or even upgraded guns on a t-cyte. So i figured, hell just drop some spore mines in and make the enemy waste a turn shooting them after they arrive. If they survive they can soak overwatch for dima or deathleaper.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Anyone got some decent ideas about making some Mucolid Spores?
Any specific spare bits that could be used as a shell/foundation for it?
Would making your own out of whatever (as long as it was a fair representation) be ok to use at tournaments?

I just don't want to shell out £44 x6 lol.

You could use the Meiotic Spores from Forgeworld.
If you're buying the Tyrannocytes anyway, Greenstuff tentacles on the bottom.
Alternatively, with plenty of clay/Greenstuff you could take any spare Carnifex carapaces lying around and make a decent stand in- church it up a bit with MC adrenal glands/toxin sacs/extended carapace bits.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Anyone got some decent ideas about making some Mucolid Spores?
Any specific spare bits that could be used as a shell/foundation for it?
Would making your own out of whatever (as long as it was a fair representation) be ok to use at tournaments?

I just don't want to shell out £44 x6 lol.

What Sinful hero said. All you really need to do is make some Greenstuff tentacles. Heck I wonder how well someone would do if they made a add on bit that made a Mucoloid with the leftover bits from the Tyrannocyte?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@tetrisphreak
It looks like it'll be a load of fun, but why the lonely spore mines? Would be better for upgrades elsewhere?

I had 23 points and manufactorum genestealers can't add any genestealers. Dimachaeron and deathelaper don't have access to biomorphs. Not enough for an extra zoey or even upgraded guns on a t-cyte. So i figured, hell just drop some spore mines in and make the enemy waste a turn shooting them after they arrive. If they survive they can soak overwatch for dima or deathleaper.

What about a third Mucolid? Only 15pts. Not saying it's a better choice but it's an option for bonus antiair(however often that comes up).

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
People have been playing the always-use-the-highest-LD-in-the-unit way forever. RAW or not, it'll be hard to persuade them otherwise. You may even be accused of Rules Lawyering for trying to get them to use majority LD. IMO, it is not worth it to try to argue for this ambivalent intepretation, whether it is actually RAW or not. You're just inviting arguments into the game.

Unsurprisingly I disagree strongly with the sentiment. There was a guy at my club that played the Serpent shield as a 360 degree weapon. He had done so forever through multiple editions against 40-50 different opponents. His incorrect rules interpretation does not get grandfathered in, nor does he get cut slack, if after having the correct rule explained to him, he reverts to "the way I've played it forever"

Getting the rules right, and consistent alleviates long term conflict not creates it.

Just want to point out that your opponent is in the minority. Here in the West Coast, we mainly play the serpent shields as front arc, whereas in the East Coast tourneys (following the Nova formats), they play it as something like 220 degrees (around there). So there is not a consensus on how you play serpent shields. However, most people play that units always use the highest LD (unless a power targets a model instead of the unit). There is a consensus there.


There is just so much rules ambivalence nowadays due to the lack of FAQ's by GW that oftentimes, it's not really a matter of the right or wrong rules, but RAI intepretations and HWIPI (how would I play it). It's not so black and white anymore.

shogun wrote:

Ummmm....fruity.

Just wanna ask, are you from Hawaii?

tag8833 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What is this, YMDC?! I'm still waiting on more opinions about Tyrannocyte weapons, and if your choice should change based on the unit intended to disembark from it.

I don't think we can say with authority yet. I also think it depends highly on the unit being transported. If you are bringing in a Dakkafex to pop back armor on things, Venom Cannons would seem to be the way to go. If you are bringing in devil gants, you probably want deathspitters, because friendly fire is too dangerous. If you are bringing in a Dimacharon, Venom Cannons would probably be best to give you a chance to pop transports before the Dimacharon gets there.

That is a good answer. Adjust/equip your spores depending on what you plan to put in it.

Though oftentimes, I think that points become an issue. In such a case, running the spores naked is fine just as well.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

All that being said - moving forward on tactics. Tonight is my clubs weekly league casual 40K night and i'm bringing this for a 1250 list:

HQ - Deathleaper
TP - Mucolid
TP - Mucolid
FA - Dimachaeron
FA - 4x Spore mines
EL - 2x Zoanthropes, 1x Neurothrope
HVY - Tyrannocyte
HVY - Tryannocyte
Formation: Manufactorum Genestealers
5x5 genestealer broods
3x Broodlords with scything talons

I haven't run genestealers in a long time so i wanted to give them a go. This list will most likely win big or lose big so we will see. I'll let everyone know how it does.

Interesting list. Would like to hear how it went. Oftentimes, we Tyranid players just don't get enough data on how certain units/formations work. It's always good to hear/see people sharing their experiences on the forums.

Cheers chaps, I have two Tyrannocytes sitting at home still in boxes (too many projects on the go currently).

Have a bag of spare bits also so I'll see what I can come up with.
Quite like the idea of adding 6 to my Skyblight list.

 jy2 wrote:

shogun wrote:

Ummmm....fruity.

Just wanna ask, are you from Hawaii?

Dont judge my pineapples of death!! The will be devastating (and cheap)!!!!!!!

To the individual asking about Mucoloids...

I have two Tyrannocytes incoming, as well as a box of Zoens which I plan to build as Zoenthropes and a Neurothrope.

As a result, I would bet good money that the Venomthrope tentacles will make for E-Z-mode Mucoloid spores.

I think I'm just going to get these and use them as Mucolid spores:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/MIEOTIC-SPORE-SACKS.html