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2014/11/30 22:15:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Rippers have the unique privilege of pulling off a complete "worst to first" comeback in the Tyranid troops department. Historically, they have paid as much per wound as a Termagant while filling a troop slot, without even being able to score. Now, however, 7th edition has made them the best scoring unit for Tyranids in our codex, by allowing them to score and also giving them the Objective Secured rule.
Rippers are most commonly run as a unit of three models, with the Deepstrike special rule purchased. This gives us 9 t3 wounds that score and can reach all over the battlefield thanks to the Deep Strike rule, at 5 points per wound. However, what makes Rippers much better than Gants is that they naturally come with the fearless rule, and move through difficult terrain at full speed thanks to the swarm rule. While Rippers take instinctive behavior tests just like gants, the failure result is much less severe, as the unit takes 3 strength 3 hits in the worst scenario, instead of falling back. Fun fact, it is actually impossible for Rippers to completely kill themselves, as some people fear, because, once the unit is down to a single model they no longer inflict wounds. By removing the need for Synapse units to babysit his troops, a Tyranid player can spend more points on heavy hitters than support units, and allows them to move their units more freely.
Rippers also have the innate advantage of their model, which is one of the shortest in the game. For a unit whose job is purely to take objectives, they want to stay out of sight, and actually can't be seen behind an Aegis Defense line or under most windows on Ruins. This makes the rippers easy to move around the battlefield thanks to their Deepstrike, and easy to hide thanks to low threat and low profile.
Rippers have several options that they can purchase, but I think that all of them are wasted points that distract from the true purpose of the unit.
Spinefists: For 4 points, 4 twinlinked shots at strength 3 aren't bad, but at BS 2 won't generate many hits and are too low strength to deal much damage. Plus, you never want these guys to be in line of sight of an enemy unit that is almost certain to out-shoot them.
Toxin Sacks: Again, 4 points per model gives poison attacks, but again I feel these are wasted. They are only truly helpful against high toughness units, but MCs will almost always cause Instant Death to the Rippers, and at initiative 2 they will rarely even swing before dying.
Adrenal Glands: 6 points per model gives fleet and furious charge, but these really shouldn't be charging anyone. Again, they will lose most combats they find, and although they could glance out vehicles, the points required are too steep.
Alternative roles: Although I would prefer to keep them out of sight and out of combat, your enemy will almost always mess with your plans and try to remove your troops. Rippers can hold their own in assault against weak units like combat squads, thanks to 4 attacks base and 3 wounds each. On the charge they can handle some light threats, but again this should be a last attempt of desperation, not a plan, as they are low Initiative and WS, and only have a 6+ save, making them fragile at best.
Worth mentioning again is that Swarms have Move Through cover and always move 6" in terrain, meaning they should always be in terrain, all the time, to give them a better save. Keep them cheap and small, and they can grab Objectives for you late and hide on them while your main force ties up the enemy.
Grade: A- (Deep Strike), B (vanilla), C+ (Spinefists)
Great review. Thanks jifel!
One thing to note is this. If you take the Forgeworld models, they are even harder to hide than standard termagants/hormagants.
Very true. For that reason, I would recommend using the standard Ripper swarms that come in the box with Termagants. Cheaper and easier to hide!
2014/11/30 22:31:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It would be quite nice but that isn't a legal allied detachment. You have to have Fateweaver or a LoC to unlock Tzeentch DPs in the Heavy slot. You could just run a Daemons CAD and the new 'Nids formation if that's going to be allowed as a second source.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/11/30 23:44:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It would be quite nice but that isn't a legal allied detachment. You have to have Fateweaver or a LoC to unlock Tzeentch DPs in the Heavy slot. You could just run a Daemons CAD and the new 'Nids formation if that's going to be allowed as a second source.
Looks like Leviathan and allies So a little rearranging of the demons should do it
2014/12/01 04:12:55
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It would be quite nice but that isn't a legal allied detachment. You have to have Fateweaver or a LoC to unlock Tzeentch DPs in the Heavy slot. You could just run a Daemons CAD and the new 'Nids formation if that's going to be allowed as a second source.
NamelessBard wrote: Didn't they FAQ out the bit that an allied detachment couldn't do 4 Hearlds in one slot? Just move the Prince to HQ.
Well, my revised list is Daemons primary, with a Tyranid detachment, so it shouldn't be a prob.
I gave a list very similar to this a hard look before leviathan dropped (minus the third Flyrant and using Be'lakor) but I just can't do Daemons primary. With all that is in me I despise the warp storm table. Not even because it's good or bad - it's totally random - but I hate the extra rolls.
I've also had games where both my warlord hive tyrant AND my opponent's warlord HQ were removed from play via the warp storm. After games like that, you look at your opponent and he looks at you and you know who won. It wasn't either of you - it was the warp storm
2014/12/01 07:18:26
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
NamelessBard wrote: Didn't they FAQ out the bit that an allied detachment couldn't do 4 Hearlds in one slot? Just move the Prince to HQ.
Well, my revised list is Daemons primary, with a Tyranid detachment, so it shouldn't be a prob.
I gave a list very similar to this a hard look before leviathan dropped (minus the third Flyrant and using Be'lakor) but I just can't do Daemons primary. With all that is in me I despise the warp storm table. Not even because it's good or bad - it's totally random - but I hate the extra rolls.
I've also had games where both my warlord hive tyrant AND my opponent's warlord HQ were removed from play via the warp storm. After games like that, you look at your opponent and he looks at you and you know who won. It wasn't either of you - it was the warp storm
Honestly, as a Daemon player, I am quite used to the randomness already. It's a stark contrast to my more dependable Tyranids and Necrons, which actually makes it a breath of fresh air. With bugs and crons, I know exactly what to expect. With Daemons, I need to plan more for contingencies in case something different happens from what I expected. It actually makes it a more exciting, though oftentimes nerve-wracking as well, playing experience.
Though if I wanted to run Daemons as allies, then I'll probably drop the screamerstar and go Lord of Change, 2x11 pink horrors and Tzeentch DP and now I don't have to worry about the Warp Storm.
In more Tyranid-related news, coming up tomorrow, reviews on Hive Guards and the Hive Crones. And later down the line, I will finish up on the Tyranid Lords of War - the Harridan and the Hierophant Bio-titan.
The following are still available for review if anyone wants to volunteer:
Our weekly casual league is tonight, here's the list i'm going with for a laugh:
CAD
HQ - OOE (In a Tyrannocyte)
TP - Mucolid x1
TP - Mucolid x1
EL - Malanthrope x1
EL - Malanthrope x1
HV - Dakkafex x2
HV- Carnifex w ScyTals & AG x3
HV- Carnifex w CClaws & AG x2
Total - 1500 points
8 carnifexes and 2 malanthropes. Just because i have the models and i figured, why not. haha.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/12/01 15:03:44
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
L0rdF1end wrote: Wow JY, that's a mean list. Not sure you need the Fighter Ace's to be honest, 5 Flyrants alone will wreck face.
As you are taking so many Lictors can you not squeeze in a Mawloc or 2?
Fighter Ace is more for testing purposes. Just trying them out. Not sure how many are optimal for now. They're probably not necessary, but still, I want to see how they can help out the army at all.
If I drop the fighter aces and a lictor, then I can fit in 1 mawloc. To fit in 2, I might have to drop the bastion and more lictors. In any case, it won't really matter. This won't be my actual Tyranid army. For my actual army, I will most likely max out on 4 flyrants only. The 5-flyrant list is more for testing purposes.
tetrisphreak wrote: Our weekly casual league is tonight, here's the list i'm going with for a laugh:
CAD
HQ - OOE (In a Tyrannocyte)
TP - Mucolid x1
TP - Mucolid x1
EL - Malanthrope x1
EL - Malanthrope x1
HV - Dakkafex x2
HV- Carnifex w ScyTals & AG x3
HV- Carnifex w CClaws & AG x2
Total - 1500 points
8 carnifexes and 2 malanthropes. Just because i have the models and i figured, why not. haha.
Looks like a lot of fun. Either your opponent will be able to deal with it or they won't.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sinful Hero wrote: So how has Dima and other melee monsters in Tyrannocytes been working? Has anyone had a chance to get some testing in?
I used him in a spore once, but in all fairness, my game wasn't an accurate gauge of his capabilities. That was because he went up against a Greater Unclean One with Warp Speed (Init 7) and the balesword (Instant-death).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 15:30:41
My opponent, Grant Theft Auto (aka GTA), will be running something like this:
Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle
Spiritseer
3x Wave Serpents - Holofields, Ghostwalk, Scatters
3x5 Dire Avengers inside
Wraithknight
Lynx
Skyshield
Court of Archon in Venom - Splinters
Warriors in Venom - Splinters
Venom - Splinters
I don't know if his list is finalized yet, but mine is. I'll let you guys know how I do.
I'm actually not sure if you can do more than one fighter ace. If you look at the rules, it says that in normal games of 40k it follows all of the rules presented for city fight, one of which is that you can only have one fighter ace. Maybe I'm mis-reading it though
2014/12/01 15:43:21
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Using Fighter Aces in Other Missions: If you wish, you can upgrade any model to a Fighter Ace in missions that do not have the Fighter Ace special rule. Using a Fighter Ace in such a mission follows exactly the same rules as for a mission that has the Fighter Ace special rule, except that the upgrade increases the points cost of the upgraded model by....
@Luke1705,
Can you quote me the rules where it says that only 1 Fighter Ace? Do all of the Death from the Skies missions only allow you to take 1 Fighter Ace? I'm only going off of the pics taken of the expansion here in this thread (p. 242-243).
Using Fighter Aces in Other Missions: If you wish, you can upgrade any model to a Fighter Ace in missions that do not have the Fighter Ace special rule. Using a Fighter Ace in such a mission follows exactly the same rules as for a mission that has the Fighter Ace special rule, except that the upgrade increases the points cost of the upgraded model by....
@Luke1705,
Can you quote me the rules where it says that only 1 Fighter Ace? Do all of the Death from the Skies missions only allow you to take 1 Fighter Ace? I'm only going off of the pics taken of the expansion here in this thread (p. 242-243).
Yeah, I opened the book and that's all there is to it. Just pay 35pts/model and roll on the table.
Using Fighter Aces in Other Missions: If you wish, you can upgrade any model to a Fighter Ace in missions that do not have the Fighter Ace special rule. Using a Fighter Ace in such a mission follows exactly the same rules as for a mission that has the Fighter Ace special rule, except that the upgrade increases the points cost of the upgraded model by....
@Luke1705,
Can you quote me the rules where it says that only 1 Fighter Ace? Do all of the Death from the Skies missions only allow you to take 1 Fighter Ace? I'm only going off of the pics taken of the expansion here in this thread (p. 242-243).
Look in the first paragraph. It says that you can only have one, then the following paragraph goes on to say that all of the rules from the first paragraph are still valid, except that it costs points to upgrade
Automatically Appended Next Post: I swear for the life of me I can't get the picture to orient correctly
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 16:07:55
2014/12/01 16:24:16
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
If you can find it, you might include the third paragraph in your post about campaigns. It mentions any model with over five kills is a fighter ace more or less, suggesting multiple aces. I've already left the house, and can't quote it for you.
Sinful Hero wrote: If you can find it, you might include the third paragraph in your post about campaigns. It mentions any model with over five kills is a fighter ace more or less, suggesting multiple aces. I've already left the house, and can't quote it for you.
Ok, I will include it over at that YMDC thread.
zerosignal wrote: Can you take that many fighter aces? I was under the impression you could only have one?
That's the point that we are debating currently. Follow the link above to join in the discussion.
Sinful Hero wrote: So how has Dima and other melee monsters in Tyrannocytes been working? Has anyone had a chance to get some testing in?
I've brought a Dima in a Tyrannocyte Twice, but one game turned out to be against bikers, so I deployed him on the table for a turn 2 charge. The other time he didn't come in until 4, but it was a blow out in my favor so he just killed 2 DE warriors, and scored an objective.
2014/12/01 18:27:42
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
The Hive Guard are the Tyranid anti-tank specialists. They are ideal against light to medium armor (AV10-12). Against heavier armor (AV13-14), you can give them the option to take Haywire weaponry. They used to be our most reliable AT option in the previous edition, but currently, they are respectable but not great. So why should you take Hive Guards in your army?
1. 2 S8 shots per hive guard with up to 6 shots per unit of 3. That is respectable firepower.
2. Hive guard do not need LOS to the target to shoot. If there is LOS-blocking terrain and in good field position, then you can fire them relatively safely with little fear for retaliation. This helps to increase their efficiency. The more they can fire, the more they are likely to make back their points in kills.
3. They are the only non-template weapon in the Tyranid arsenal that can ignore cover. This makes them ideal against annoying, jinking skimmers like wave serpents and the like. It also lets them kill off annoying units in cover as well.
4. They are durable. T6 with 2W makes for a decent platform that minimizes the damage against most small-arms fire. Keep them in ruins with a malan/venomthrope nearby and now they have a very resilient 2+ cover save. Better yet, hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain and now, they don't have to worry about most enemy firepower.
5. An improvement to the hive guard is that now, they can more reliably deal with heavy armor. Before, hive guards could not reliably deal with AV13-14 tanks. Now, they have the option to upgrade their guns to fire haywire shots. So as long as they can get close enough, then they can be a threat to these types of tanks.
They are more reliable than most Tyranid units for AT. However, what keeps them from being an all-star Tyranid unit like they once were in last edition?
1. A drop from BS4 previously to BS3 currently. In addition, their cost has gone up. Currently, you are paying more for a unit that shoots worse than before. That there is the very definition of a nerf.
2. A problem that they had before and still have today is their rather limited range. 24" just isn't good enough as most tanks can just stay out of their range and keep firing. So in order to target these tanks, the hive guard has to expose itself to enemy fire by moving towards the enemy.
3. The Shockcannon is not without its disadvantages. While it lets you deal with heavy armor, its notoriously short range (only 18") means that you have to expose your hive guards to the danger of assault (not to mention enemy shooting). It also does not ignore cover so enemy units have a chance to ignore its damage if there is cover nearby. It performs worse against light armor and lastly, it can do nothing against flyers.
4. Improved AT elsewhere. Electroshock grubs, exocrines, tyrannofexes, Tyranid Lord of Wars, dakkafexes, cheaper crushing claws, Warp Blast being available to any psychic Tyranid unit and an increase in the number of flyrants one can take in an army means that there are plenty of AT army-wide for Tyranids. Now there is much more competition for the Hive Guard in the AT department. More importantly, many of those AT options are less specialist units and better all-around TAC units than the hive guard. In other words, Tyranid AT has improved overall and now they are less reliant on a specialist unit like the hive guard than they used to be.
Grades: B (vanilla), B- (with Shockcannon)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/01 18:33:53
4 respectably nasty FMCs, 2 MCs deepstriking and 14 WC. Not much else though. I like the Nurgle DPs since they do what the flyrants don't handle so well, notably wreck other big MCs. I'm thinking the Nurgle Princes should feel suitably comfortable landing on turn 2 and assaulting on turn 3 as long as either the Dakkafex show up in the opponent's backfield.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/12/01 20:42:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
tetrisphreak wrote: Our weekly casual league is tonight, here's the list i'm going with for a laugh:
CAD
HQ - OOE (In a Tyrannocyte)
TP - Mucolid x1
TP - Mucolid x1
EL - Malanthrope x1
EL - Malanthrope x1
HV - Dakkafex x2
HV- Carnifex w ScyTals & AG x3
HV- Carnifex w CClaws & AG x2
Total - 1500 points
8 carnifexes and 2 malanthropes. Just because i have the models and i figured, why not. haha.
That is mean. OOE is going to be awreckingball in that list. Dakkafex hold midfeild covering the Mals, Crushers and and stock fex charge in head long, with OOE coming in round 3 as a finishing blow.
2014/12/01 20:57:56
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Side note: Current rumors are that the new Broodlord character will provide Stealth and Preferred enemy to his squad... What do you guys think that will do for Genestealers? I see it being potentially very very useful, I'm probably even going to play test a big 20 unit with the Spawn!
2014/12/01 21:05:02
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Tyranids as an allied detachment is pretty nice since you only have to spend 15 points on the troop slot.
The tournaments I go to are pretty much one CAD plus Ally/Formation.
I do quite like the idea of Fateweaver (now buffed to roll on maelific), summoning screamer star with air defence and drop pods coming from Tyranids in support.
Should work pretty nicely.
2014/12/01 21:16:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jifel wrote: Side note: Current rumors are that the new Broodlord character will provide Stealth and Preferred enemy to his squad... What do you guys think that will do for Genestealers? I see it being potentially very very useful, I'm probably even going to play test a big 20 unit with the Spawn!
Wouldn't be surprised if the only way to take the Spawn of Cryptus is through the Children of Cryptus unit - the 8 genestealers and the special broodlord included in the box set.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
(building)
(less)
In any case the modified list is still bangin! There is always room for Mawloc. 
