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2015/03/25 00:21:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jy2 wrote: I have a 1500 ITC tournament coming up. As I am torn between taking Tyranids or Necrons there, I've decided that perhaps, I can bring both. This is what I am thinking of taking:
Destroyer Lord - Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifters, Warscythe
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
1x Heavy Destroyer
1500
Looks very intersesting. Will this be enough to push Decurians off of objectives?
Well, I've got more ground firepower than in my regular Tyranid list, and a good portion of it is AP3 firepower. Whether or not that is enough to push Decurians off of objectives, I can't say for sure. But IMO, it's definitely a more shooty list than pure Tyranids, especially at only 1500.
jy2 wrote: I have a 1500 ITC tournament coming up. As I am torn between taking Tyranids or Necrons there, I've decided that perhaps, I can bring both. This is what I am thinking of taking:
Destroyer Lord - Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifters, Warscythe
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
1x Heavy Destroyer
1500
I would be worried about objectives. I also don't understand all the spores
It should have a better ground presence than my other list with lictors and rippers. The destroyers are arguably much more resilient and they will be an offensive focus as well as opposed to a unit that just hides from the enemy. Also, my Destroyer Lord is actually a viable ground threat against the enemy.
Spores are for if I need to reserve my flyrants from super-shooty armies with 1st turn. Deploy and hide spores. They can also be used to "push back" certain armies like White Scars and massed scouts.
Or I can just swap out all those spores for Fighter Ace on a flyrant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
shadowfinder wrote: So with some up dating and playing with points. I think I have come up with my list to play this year in the ITC. I played a tournament with this already without the ADL and with Mawlocs.
I decided to drop them for something that will be more reliable, I hope. Biovores I think are going to be needed vs. the new Necrons. I do gain more kill point in kill points games but I think the trade off is being able to target 3 units if needed. Also if the miss they make more spores that can then attack or block paths.
Spoiler:
+++ New Roster (1850pts) +++
++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) (70pts) ++
Hive Tyrant (240pts) [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (45pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (120pts) +
Biovore Brood (40pts) [Biovore]
Biovore Brood (40pts) [Biovore]
Biovore Brood (40pts) [Biovore]
Any thoughts or concerns please feel free to point out. I am trying to make as close to possible a TAC list.
I like it. However, here is 1 change I would make. Drop 1 biovore and 1 unit of spore mines, bump up both spore mine units to 4 instead and add 1 more unit of ObSec rippers. Why?
1. 1 less Heavy Support.
2. Better flexibility with deepstriking rippers.
3. Better at the objective game with the rippers. In your backfield, most likely you will have only 1 objective. You've already got the malanthrope and 2 biovore units to grab those objectives. What you need more of are forward-objective grabbers, hence the rippers. IMO, that is worth the trade-off for 1 last blast.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/25 22:54:22
I too am interested in the size of your gargoyle swarm in the skytyrant formation. I really want to run it, but haven't been able to figure out a really optimal amount of gargoyles.
2015/03/26 19:10:51
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
graywater wrote: I too am interested in the size of your gargoyle swarm in the skytyrant formation. I really want to run it, but haven't been able to figure out a really optimal amount of gargoyles.
20 however I'd suggest 25-30.
Flyrant has OA, LWBS, Talons, Electro and Toxin.
2+ jink + 2+ LOS saves are amazingly good and if there is enough target saturation on the board then it can be quite easy to force the opponent to try and deal with everything else.
Wilson wrote: 2+ jink + 2+ LOS saves are amazingly good and if there is enough target saturation on the board then it can be quite easy to force the opponent to try and deal with everything else.
Do you have a rule of thumb on when to take the Jink vs when to LOS. The last game I took out skytyrant, I Jinked the 1st 4 wounds on my 2+, and failed 2 of them, and then felt insecure the rest of the game, eventually losing my Flyrant to a Destroyer Lord.
I tried a few games running an Aegis with a Malanthrope on a Quad gun as a way to give the Gargoyles a 2+ cover save against my opponent's alpha strike.
2015/03/26 21:27:21
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
graywater wrote: I too am interested in the size of your gargoyle swarm in the skytyrant formation. I really want to run it, but haven't been able to figure out a really optimal amount of gargoyles.
20 however I'd suggest 25-30.
Flyrant has OA, LWBS, Talons, Electro and Toxin.
2+ jink + 2+ LOS saves are amazingly good and if there is enough target saturation on the board then it can be quite easy to force the opponent to try and deal with everything else.
For the record, I think the Malanthrope is the best sniper in our army. I swear, he has done more work with the heavy bolters in my bastion than my flyrants have in a couple games.
That's some terrible luck Tag. Maybe worth giving the flyrant regen in that case since he probably will be able to make effective use of it, and that way you can feel better about taking a wound. That's kind of my rule for the Destroyer Lord I've been running with my Necrons. I give him the phylactery and say "take saves until I can make use of this upgrade" haha. Of course he has a re-rollable 2+ and a 4++ FNP, so I don't have to worry about statistical oddities as much
2015/03/26 21:41:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
luke1705 wrote: For the record, I think the Malanthrope is the best sniper in our army. I swear, he has done more work with the heavy bolters in my bastion than my flyrants have in a couple games.
That's some terrible luck Tag. Maybe worth giving the flyrant regen in that case since he probably will be able to make effective use of it, and that way you can feel better about taking a wound. That's kind of my rule for the Destroyer Lord I've been running with my Necrons. I give him the phylactery and say "take saves until I can make use of this upgrade" haha. Of course he has a re-rollable 2+ and a 4++ FNP, so I don't have to worry about statistical oddities as much
There are pleanty of games where I've saved 20+ 2+'s. Its more of an issue of the Tyrant only having 4 wounds.
I would like to put regen on a Skytyrant, tyrant. I really would. I would if he could take crushing claws. But the problem is, for a unit that can be tarpit by basically any dreadnought in the game, and killed dead by a single imperial knight, stacking more points on top of it just seems like a bad idea.
2015/03/26 21:49:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
True, he is already rather expensive. But you really don't see a ton of Dreadnoughts on the table nowadays, and I mean that's what Barbie is for
It may not be optimal - I'm just saying that he has quite a good chance to earn those wounds back since he can't be directly allocated to outside of a challenge.
2015/03/26 22:12:18
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: 2+ jink + 2+ LOS saves are amazingly good and if there is enough target saturation on the board then it can be quite easy to force the opponent to try and deal with everything else.
Do you have a rule of thumb on when to take the Jink vs when to LOS. The last game I took out skytyrant, I Jinked the 1st 4 wounds on my 2+, and failed 2 of them, and then felt insecure the rest of the game, eventually losing my Flyrant to a Destroyer Lord.
I tried a few games running an Aegis with a Malanthrope on a Quad gun as a way to give the Gargoyles a 2+ cover save against my opponent's alpha strike.
always LOS if the tyrant is the next target and always jink - there is no downside in my eyes.
luke1705 wrote: For the record, I think the Malanthrope is the best sniper in our army. I swear, he has done more work with the heavy bolters in my bastion than my flyrants have in a couple games.
That's some terrible luck Tag. Maybe worth giving the flyrant regen in that case since he probably will be able to make effective use of it, and that way you can feel better about taking a wound. That's kind of my rule for the Destroyer Lord I've been running with my Necrons. I give him the phylactery and say "take saves until I can make use of this upgrade" haha. Of course he has a re-rollable 2+ and a 4++ FNP, so I don't have to worry about statistical oddities as much
There are pleanty of games where I've saved 20+ 2+'s. Its more of an issue of the Tyrant only having 4 wounds.
I would like to put regen on a Skytyrant, tyrant. I really would. I would if he could take crushing claws. But the problem is, for a unit that can be tarpit by basically any dreadnought in the game, and killed dead by a single imperial knight, stacking more points on top of it just seems like a bad idea.
A knight should have lost a fair few HP before getting into CC and would take another d3 HP from electroshock grubs via overwatch. Smash will be take a hp off a turn as well with the 1/6 to cause additional hp. Same applies to a dreadnought.
As for Regen it's an unnecessary quirk. no wounds should be touching the flyrant until all the other bodies are done.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/26 22:17:18
2015/03/26 22:35:43
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: always LOS if the tyrant is the next target and always jink - there is no downside in my eyes.
20-30 Gargs won't last too far into the game, and you need those to chain combats together, and eat CC wounds for your flyrant. I was working under the theory that I would tank any group of wounds less than 6 until I took a wound on the flyrant, but maybe you are right. Its a gigantically high target priority, and lots of armies can kill 20-30 gargoyles in one round of shooting.
2015/03/26 22:46:40
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: always LOS if the tyrant is the next target and always jink - there is no downside in my eyes.
20-30 Gargs won't last too far into the game, and you need those to chain combats together, and eat CC wounds for your flyrant. I was working under the theory that I would tank any group of wounds less than 6 until I took a wound on the flyrant, but maybe you are right. Its a gigantically high target priority, and lots of armies can kill 20-30 gargoyles in one round of shooting.
with 2+ jink and pottentially fnp ( i run 2 more flyrants so the odds are there to get catalyst on one of them) its a pretty tough unit to remove! Sure there is stuff out there that ignores cover - sms and serpants for one thing but these can be worked around.make Those targets priority number 1 or try reservong the entire swarm.
2015/03/26 23:43:13
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm having some Grey Knight / Sisters of Battle woes.
Grey Knights in general are tough to deal with, I feel like they're a very hard counter to our MCs with 2+5++ and FNP as well as force weapons that ignore our armor and ID us. I realize volume of fire is most likely my best bet against them (termagants) but that's where the sisters come in. No scatter deep striking sisters with dual hand flamers melts gant squads. I also get caught up with a Crusader + DCA + Priest death star. They get to use acts of faith (auto pass thanks to relic on cannonness HQ in squad) to reroll armor saves / invuln saves, or a slew of other stuff. This death star is usually in a Land Raider or Stormraven these days.
Any suggestions? I really don't want to go down the path of min troops in the form of spores or rippers and jamming as many Flyrants in as possible....
2015/03/27 12:21:45
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: always LOS if the tyrant is the next target and always jink - there is no downside in my eyes.
20-30 Gargs won't last too far into the game, and you need those to chain combats together, and eat CC wounds for your flyrant. I was working under the theory that I would tank any group of wounds less than 6 until I took a wound on the flyrant, but maybe you are right. Its a gigantically high target priority, and lots of armies can kill 20-30 gargoyles in one round of shooting.
with 2+ jink and pottentially fnp ( i run 2 more flyrants so the odds are there to get catalyst on one of them) its a pretty tough unit to remove!
You jink your Gargoyles? lol. No wonder you think it's a good formation...
Unfortunately, you can't do it.
2015/03/27 13:42:47
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: always LOS if the tyrant is the next target and always jink - there is no downside in my eyes.
20-30 Gargs won't last too far into the game, and you need those to chain combats together, and eat CC wounds for your flyrant. I was working under the theory that I would tank any group of wounds less than 6 until I took a wound on the flyrant, but maybe you are right. Its a gigantically high target priority, and lots of armies can kill 20-30 gargoyles in one round of shooting.
with 2+ jink and pottentially fnp ( i run 2 more flyrants so the odds are there to get catalyst on one of them) its a pretty tough unit to remove!
You jink your Gargoyles? lol. No wonder you think it's a good formation...
Unfortunately, you can't do it.
Yeah... I feel like a bit of a dill weed now. Shouldnt listen to people telling you the rules and instead i should really just read my rulebook...
2015/03/27 14:35:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I've tried it in three games, can't say I'm happy with how it perfoms. Feels more like a prison for a Flyrant, than something that give me options. Prone to be charged by an IK, Gargoyles are gone if focused and even when all Gargoyles are gone, the Skyrant can't fly faster than 12".
2015/03/27 15:18:54
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
shadowfinder wrote: So with some up dating and playing with points. I think I have come up with my list to play this year in the ITC. I played a tournament with this already without the ADL and with Mawlocs. I decided to drop them for something that will be more reliable, I hope. Biovores I think are going to be needed vs. the new Necrons. I do gain more kill point in kill points games but I think the trade off is being able to target 3 units if needed. Also if the miss they make more spores that can then attack or block paths.
Spoiler:
+++ New Roster (1850pts) +++
++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) (70pts) ++
Hive Tyrant (240pts) [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (45pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (120pts) +
Biovore Brood (40pts) [Biovore]
Biovore Brood (40pts) [Biovore]
Biovore Brood (40pts) [Biovore]
Any thoughts or concerns please feel free to point out. I am trying to make as close to possible a TAC list.
JY2 Response:: I like it. However, here is 1 change I would make. Drop 1 biovore and 1 unit of spore mines, bump up both spore mine units to 4 instead and add 1 more unit of ObSec rippers. Why?
1. 1 less Heavy Support.
2. Better flexibility with deepstriking rippers.
3. Better at the objective game with the rippers. In your backfield, most likely you will have only 1 objective. You've already got the malanthrope and 2 biovore units to grab those objectives. What you need more of are forward-objective grabbers, hence the rippers. IMO, that is worth the trade-off for 1 last blast.""""""""
Thanks for the Ideas. Having more Scoring is a good thing. I think I will wait to see how the new rules are going to be to make sure of my list. It is a easy adjustment though. I don't even need to make them deep striking as I need one to hold my back field behind the ADL.
How would this list stack up VS other Tyranid list like your 5 Tyrant list, seans Lit Shame or iNcontrols Barbed List do you think?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 18:23:35
2015/03/27 19:28:05
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Which list would you take and what changes would you make if any? Really struggling. List 3 sounds fun but I know one of my opponent's plays Raptors (and obviously Lias) which really hampers reserve rolls
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/28 02:25:46
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Which list would you take and what changes would you make if any? Really struggling. List 3 sounds fun but I know one of my opponent's plays Raptors (and obviously Lias) which really hampers reserve rolls
All three are winnable lists, so it comes down to personal "style", I have good luck with Mawloc(s) so I would take the triple Mawlocs, and have a blast. If I was recommending a list, I would suggest the LAN as the best "TAAC" list.
But Iwould take the "Tremors" list.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2015/03/28 12:53:32
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: Skytyrant is awesome. Took it again for the second time vs 3 wraithknights, 2 serpants , summonseer + bikes and a knight lancer.
tyrant took out 2 wraith knights and the lancer with smash all by itself!
So dope! Highley recommended formation
The jink error nonwithstanding, what sort of list are you fitting the Skytyrant into? The trouble I'm having listbuilding is that a lot of our stuff is either flying, deepstriking or sitting back shooting - meaning the skytyrant swarm is basically going to be the only thing my opponent shoots at, at least until reserves arrive.
2015/03/28 17:03:14
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Which list would you take and what changes would you make if any? Really struggling. List 3 sounds fun but I know one of my opponent's plays Raptors (and obviously Lias) which really hampers reserve rolls
All three are winnable lists, so it comes down to personal "style", I have good luck with Mawloc(s) so I would take the triple Mawlocs, and have a blast. If I was recommending a list, I would suggest the LAN as the best "TAAC" list.
But Iwould take the "Tremors" list.
You can make all my Mawloc rolls I played with the Mawloc list today, dropping a Mawloc for a Tyrant Guard and a few more Spore Mins and Mucolids as I didn't have the third Mawloc ready - played Tau w/ added Knight.
First turn was sorted but was Seized by Tau, on Hammer and Anvil deployment no less! Causes three wounds on my Warlord, my turn comes, perils and grounds the other Flyrant, which is promptly charged by the Knight on T2, effectively both were dead on T2 while I still had the majority of my army in reserves. Haywire helped a bit and I got a lucky Warp Lance through to get it down to 1 HP but was still tabled T5. Mawlocs did a bit of damage, but one scattered onto impassable terrain and just died instantly. The other killed two Broadsides? But really I think I need more points to make Lictor shame work.
I'll be testing the Living Artillery list on Tuesday to see how it fares
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/28 23:26:46
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I wasn't aware that the top lists had been posted. This is mostly because I've been assembling some plague drones (so many pieces! It's like the Tyrranocyte all over again!)
Will this be enough to push Decurians off of objectives? 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
I played with the Mawloc list today, dropping a Mawloc for a Tyrant Guard and a few more Spore Mins and Mucolids as I didn't have the third Mawloc ready - played Tau w/ added Knight.