Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

At 1000 points, can genestealers be viable? I have a team tourney coming next month, partners armies are treated as allies of convenience, and my partner is running BA. I was thinking of running my nids along side him and really have always loved genestealers ( they are the reason i got nids). I have tried to think of some combos between the two but with the holiday season my mind has already been wracked and just defaults to"run as many MC as possible". Anyone have experience running teams with nids? Do's and Don'ts?

 Solosam47 wrote:
At 1000 points, can genestealers be viable? I have a team tourney coming next month, partners armies are treated as allies of convenience, and my partner is running BA. I was thinking of running my nids along side him and really have always loved genestealers ( they are the reason i got nids). I have tried to think of some combos between the two but with the holiday season my mind has already been wracked and just defaults to"run as many MC as possible". Anyone have experience running teams with nids? Do's and Don'ts?

If you must run them, just keep them MSU and no upgrades. They can still do damage vs most normal obsec troops. Stick to cover. GTG without reservation.

 jy2 wrote:

 jifel wrote:

X078 wrote:
Actually as the Surges don't have Blacksun Filters and low initiative so blinding venom on Gargoyles could be quite effective.

In my next game I'll actually be packing some Gargoyles (as part of a Skytyrant swarm) and I believe I'll be able to take out the Stormsurge with it, but once I get Gargoyles in close combat it won't be much of a problem as it'll be tarpitted for a long time anyways, unless of course my opponent simply blows away all of my gargoyles with Tau firepower.

A good Tau army will excel in taking out deathstars or especially against mini-deathstars like the Skytyrant formation, especially if he is running the Hunter Contingent of a unit of Stormsurges. That's 8D6 S5 shots that will be ignoring cover thanks to Markerlights, or 16D6 shots if he is running a unit of 2. IMO gargoyles or other large Tyranid swarms will be next to useless against them unless you are running multiples of these hordes (a la the Endless Swarm formation).

I certainly wouldn't tailor a Skytyrant to play against Tau (Tau is the only army that's beaten my SKyTyrant so far actually), but Im bringing a TAC list to this fight, so we'll see how it goes. With any luck, having extra Tyrants in the air, plus a lot more warp charge, will be able to distract/tie down my opponents Stormsurge (which is part of a CAD, not a Hunter Contingent) until I can hit it. So far Tau have proven to be a huge pain in the rear for my SkyTyrant list, so I'm looking to practice against them. I have full confidence that I could win this game with 4-5 Flyrants, but I'm trying to test my SkyTyrant this month while I prepare lists for the ATC.

EDIT: @Solosam47, I would say go for it in regards to Stealers, but make sure to coordinate with your teammate so that they get cover. Stealers are good in assault but prone to being shot up easily, so perhaps ask your teammate to run a Pod/fast army that can present opponents with lots of threats so that your Stealers dont take too much flak coming in. Theyre not optimal, but keep them mimimal points and lots of small units and they're good enough to bring to a doubles tournament, as those are usually friendlier environments.

 Solosam47 wrote:
At 1000 points, can genestealers be viable? I have a team tourney coming next month, partners armies are treated as allies of convenience, and my partner is running BA. I was thinking of running my nids along side him and really have always loved genestealers ( they are the reason i got nids). I have tried to think of some combos between the two but with the holiday season my mind has already been wracked and just defaults to"run as many MC as possible". Anyone have experience running teams with nids? Do's and Don'ts?

Run the Leviathan rising formations, or the Deathstorm's Children (which would be amusing to see fighting next to BA )

Thanks for the advice folks! Yeah I think im going to just run them in that hunter formation where they get PE. I can use up to two sources so that alongside a CAD with rippers to fill troop tax then try to see what MCs i can fit. Will be testing it out shortly

Now since the previous question's been answered, here's another one.

How have nids done in your Kill Team games? The few games of KT I've played have gone all right.

So, how 'bout them Meiotic Spores?

I've been trying to front load my army as much as possible lately, ie, trying to get everyone in range as soon as humanly possible with Infiltration and the like and I was reading the rules on Meiotic Spores. Plus, with Tyranids, it starts looking more and more like a FHT + Mawloc + mines army more and more.

Their ability to DS before first turn and their ability to spam Ignores Cover large blasts looks pretty good, especially going after specialized units, like Marker Drones. Creating Spore Mines if they're shot to pieces is nice, too.

Right now, I have three MSU units. Since they'll scatter the full distance when landing, and the blast will do so as well, I wanted to get as many into range as possible. I've been thinking of cutting out other units to either get more units in, or to beef up what units I do have. Running Leviathan and CAD means I can have six total units.

Running more MSU units means a better likely hood of getting any units on the board, but larger units means what I do get on the board is going to have a bigger impact.

Any thoughts? (I also have Mucolids for min troops and Sporefield as well. I would do more, but they're only good for Assault, and have trouble getting there.)

I have a 1500 point "classic hammer" tournament next week and wanted to get some comments on the list that i am considering. Rules are basically one CAD and only troops can score. Other variation I was considering was triple Mawloc and a Crone, but felt the consistency of the dakkafex would be better in smaller games.

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant

Tervigon/Egrubs/Crushing Claws
30x Termagants

Malanthrope

Dakkafex
Dakkafex
Mawloc

Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte

 997Turbo wrote:
I have a 1500 point "classic hammer" tournament next week and wanted to get some comments on the list that i am considering. Rules are basically one CAD and only troops can score. Other variation I was considering was triple Mawloc and a Crone, but felt the consistency of the dakkafex would be better in smaller games.

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant

Tervigon/Egrubs/Crushing Claws
30x Termagants

Malanthrope

Dakkafex
Dakkafex
Mawloc

Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte

Well...it's fairly shooty....and shooty nids are greater than, greater than, greater than melee (shooty's waaay better), so it looks good to me. And am I reading correctly that you have 30 termagants?

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 997Turbo wrote:
I have a 1500 point "classic hammer" tournament next week and wanted to get some comments on the list that i am considering. Rules are basically one CAD and only troops can score. Other variation I was considering was triple Mawloc and a Crone, but felt the consistency of the dakkafex would be better in smaller games.

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant

Tervigon/Egrubs/Crushing Claws
30x Termagants

Malanthrope

Dakkafex
Dakkafex
Mawloc

Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte

Well...it's fairly shooty....and shooty nids are greater than, greater than, greater than melee (shooty's waaay better), so it looks good to me. And am I reading correctly that you have 30 termagants?

Yes, that's right. 30 termagants will make the Tervigon an ObSec troop choice.

Overall, it's a solid Take-All-Comer's Tyranid list that should do pretty well if you know how to run it. It's not good enough to win a GT-type tournament, but IMO it has all the tools to win a small, RTT-type tournament.

Hey guys,

Quick question: Are Tyrannocytes a necessity at this point for at least a semi-competitive army? I see a fair amount of lists running them, and I know Tyranids are still very "meh" in the current meta, so do we need Tyrannocytes to compete? Not looking to play GT's or anything, I just don't want to run a list that allows me to get the floor mopped with me.

Also, are people still running small amounts of troops? I remember months ago the current flavor of the week was running the bare minimum amount of troops in the form of rippers. I see some lists are running Tervigons again? Are they back to being good again? I haven't really been keeping up and want to start playing again.

Journeyman351 wrote:
Hey guys,

Quick question: Are Tyrannocytes a necessity at this point for at least a semi-competitive army? I see a fair amount of lists running them, and I know Tyranids are still very "meh" in the current meta, so do we need Tyrannocytes to compete? Not looking to play GT's or anything, I just don't want to run a list that allows me to get the floor mopped with me.

Also, are people still running small amounts of troops? I remember months ago the current flavor of the week was running the bare minimum amount of troops in the form of rippers. I see some lists are running Tervigons again? Are they back to being good again? I haven't really been keeping up and want to start playing again.

Tyrannocyte aren't required to be good, but they are a good unit that Id reccomend using (preferably with one of the fex units inside) And as for troops, minimum is still very popular. Two rippers, 3 mucolids has served me very very well honestly. Tervigons aren't great but also aren't bad, certainly useable. I just wouldn't reccomend them competitively, but they'll hold their own in a local meta.

Journeyman351 wrote:
Hey guys,

Quick question: Are Tyrannocytes a necessity at this point for at least a semi-competitive army? I see a fair amount of lists running them, and I know Tyranids are still very "meh" in the current meta, so do we need Tyrannocytes to compete? Not looking to play GT's or anything, I just don't want to run a list that allows me to get the floor mopped with me.

Also, are people still running small amounts of troops? I remember months ago the current flavor of the week was running the bare minimum amount of troops in the form of rippers. I see some lists are running Tervigons again? Are they back to being good again? I haven't really been keeping up and want to start playing again.

Minimal troop list were also Flyrant heavy lists in general. Pretty much you either play minimum troops or maxed out troops and just have to many to kill. The max troop way has the problem of just being slow to play since you have about 180 25mm bodies to move every turn.

Thinking of upgrading my nids which have been on the shelf since 4th. Before I go list building I'd love to know people's thoughts on genestealers . Not as a focus point but perhaps as a proverbial distraction carnifex? I'm thinking old style in terms of list building so best tactics and applications would be appreciated.

 buddha wrote:
Thinking of upgrading my nids which have been on the shelf since 4th. Before I go list building I'd love to know people's thoughts on genestealers . Not as a focus point but perhaps as a proverbial distraction carnifex? I'm thinking old style in terms of list building so best tactics and applications would be appreciated.

They're overpriced, fragile, don't have assault grenades, and are generally awful to be blunt.

 buddha wrote:
Thinking of upgrading my nids which have been on the shelf since 4th. Before I go list building I'd love to know people's thoughts on genestealers . Not as a focus point but perhaps as a proverbial distraction carnifex? I'm thinking old style in terms of list building so best tactics and applications would be appreciated.

My friend's Genestealer mob consists of the following:

14 Genestealers
1 Broodlord

He thinks the Genestealer mob is 'big enough'.

They have rending claws, and only rending claws. Pretty Cool looking models. They did pretty well one time when they took out an entire mob of boyz (led by a weirdboy) in one go.

So i'd say to give them all rending claws, and only rending claws.

They come with rending claws.

They still suck though. : / Maybe next codex.

 Iechine wrote:
They come with rending claws.

They still suck though. : / Maybe next codex.

Yeah, here's some hopes for the next codex.

Reduce point cost of Tyranid Prime

Either balance Shooty and Melee, or make Melee better again.

 Iechine wrote:
They come with rending claws.

They still suck though. : / Maybe next codex.

Thanks everyone. Maybe I'll hold off yet again and see what a future codex may bring.

 buddha wrote:
Thinking of upgrading my nids which have been on the shelf since 4th. Before I go list building I'd love to know people's thoughts on genestealers . Not as a focus point but perhaps as a proverbial distraction carnifex? I'm thinking old style in terms of list building so best tactics and applications would be appreciated.

Genestealers have been hurt a lot in the past 2 editions mainly due to 3 main factors:

1. Lack of grenades.

2. Inability to assault after infiltrating/outflanking.

3. The dominance of shooting in this (and last) edition of 40K.

As such, not a lot of people use them anyone, instead opting for more "efficient" offensive tools in the Tyranid arsenal such as MC's and Tyranid shooting.


However, that does not mean that you can't build an army using Genestealers as complementary pieces. 1 person - Sean Nayden - actually won a GT using genestealers in his early #lictorshame list (he would later drop them for another flyrant).

The key to making genestealers work semi-reliably are these:

1. Run them in small, MSU 5-man units. It's better to go 3 units of 5 rather than 1 unit of 15. If you make the unit too big, it becomes too high of a priority and your opponent will shoot them down. However, make them into smaller units and they actually stand a better chance to make it into combat due to the perception that they aren't as big of a threat. This way, you can also play the objective/Maelstrom game much better.

2. Distribute the threat in your army. Have other high priority threats in your army (like flyrants, dakkafexes or other Tyranid MC's) to force your opponent's attention away from your stealers.

3. Be flexible with your stealers. Their sole purpose isn't just to threaten your opponent's units. Rather, use them towards the mission objectives and as area-denial units. For example, hide them behind BLOS terrain right next to an objective and dare your opponent to come claim the objective. The key to using stealers successfully isn't necessarily to crush your opponent's army (they won't, unless your opponent is pretty bad) but as a board control unit.


Genestealers are a much handicapped unit in the past 2 editions and they are definitely a challenge to play well. However, if you can manage to do so, then you may find them to be very rewarding.

In ITC format can FMC's score whilst swooping?

Eldercaveman wrote:
In ITC format can FMC's score whilst swooping?

No.

luke1705 wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
At 1000 points, can genestealers be viable? I have a team tourney coming next month, partners armies are treated as allies of convenience, and my partner is running BA. I was thinking of running my nids along side him and really have always loved genestealers ( they are the reason i got nids). I have tried to think of some combos between the two but with the holiday season my mind has already been wracked and just defaults to"run as many MC as possible". Anyone have experience running teams with nids? Do's and Don'ts?

If you must run them, just keep them MSU and no upgrades. They can still do damage vs most normal obsec troops. Stick to cover. GTG without reservation.

But theyre fearless aren't they? You cant GTG with them?

On a general note about genestealers... yeah, theyre not great, which is such a shame considering theyre such an iconic unit. The dataslates let you inflitrate loads of squads of genestealers close to the enemy which may mean some get into combat, but it does require you to focus a lot of your army on them, which makes for a not-very-good army in all honesty.

They need some sort of improvement or formation in the next codex which lets them assault on the turn they arrive (like ymargls did) or gives them Stealth and/or Shrouded, or something like that

Double Post

I enjoyed my butterfly Genestealers at NOVA, if anything because I got to infilitrate, but they proved useful in 2 games. Every other round they died without much ado.

Genestealers are not fearless unless in Synapse range, so it is a common tactic to go to ground with them, then move a Synapse unit in range so they pop back up and can move again on your turn. In my opinion, that's a lot of gimmicks and points (not to mention a slow synapse unit to stay behind them) for a simple +1 to cover, since it also requires no Flyrants within 12 of the Stealers. And I imagine that some formation will make them more viable when next Codex rolls around, but we'll see about that. I'm hoping they serve as "spotters" like RG scouts that can give other units preferred enemy or the such,

Honestly I almost don't care what they can or can't do. Just give me a formation that makes the stealers USEFUL for the points. Also, Carnifexes please

 luke1705 wrote:
Honestly I almost don't care what they can or can't do. Just give me a formation that makes the stealers USEFUL for the points. Also, Carnifexes please

Like giving the little bugger back the "grenades", Flesh hooks were such a nice upgrade

Yes. Yes they were

Good evening folks, so played two games tonight against Tau and thought Id share my thoughts with you guys. First off, the lists. We used the same for both games.


Lists:


Game 1:


Game 2:


So, my thoughts: first off I can say my opponent brought incredibly tough lists for me. 3 skyrays and a skyfire stormsurge are so tough to deal with... I honestly don't know how to handle Stormsurges yet. Across 2 games I got shriek off three times and didn't wound him. Granted I rolled bad for powers, but they have rediculously good firepower. I honestly think I may want to go second so I can land and pray the game ends. MSU hardly works as he can split fire with so many guns, and SMS kill rippers. Plus, 8d6 shots per dude is insane! At one point my opponent got 40 shots off with skyfire. I killed one riptide game 2, so my opponent has a total of 7 models left across both games, but ignoring it and killing the rest didn't do much for me. This was my standard TAC list but in considering dropping the Biovores again. Void Shield Generator is ace and saved me a lot. But as Nids I am really struggling to think of how to kill Surges. At one point I dunped 4 Flyrants into one game 1, and did one wound exactly. Never shot them again. Any thoughts on beating a double stormsurge list for you guys?