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Hey fellas,

I had a game last Thursday against a guy from our small group of gamers (8 of us altogether) and he is generally "the winner". I.E Doesn't like losing and wins most of his games (aside from me who gives him a tough time, mainly over rules).

Am I a bad player or rules lawyer when I point out the following (and found a lot more from the game since then that was wrong)

1) His Vendettas/Valkyries cannot start on the board in Hover mode. NEVER. (Even in the IG FAQ!)

2) His Vendettas/Valkyries cannot ignore my Devilfish "jink" saves just because they are flyers.

3) Flyers don't get a 4+ Evade save UNLESS moving flat out. He thought 4+ was standard Evade.

4) In hover mode he can fire 4 weapons when moving at 12".

5) Primaris Psyker and Battle Psyker squad = Level 2, not 3.

6) Cannot fire Witchfire powers out of a transport that moved flat-out.

They were the big 6 that came up during the game and he's normally a top player and I wouldn't assume he'd abuse the rules but am I a rules lawyer for bringing rules up during the game? Let's face it, I enjoy the game immensely BUT I will not get steam rollered due to rules being vastly misplayed. I just hate the feeling of constantly having to remind or show people a rule or question a rule. I feel like a dick but when I know it's so wrong I can't help it :/ Why should his flyers start on the table? Why should I allow him to hover and fire 4 weapons etc etc.

Is there a boundary to being a rules lawyer and I have I over stepped it? I really don't want to be TFG!!!!!!

In personal experience, if you get to the point where you ask if you are being TFG, you really aren't TFG.

Frankly, it looks like he's cheating, perhaps unintentionally, so bringing him back to the rules isn't being TFG.

Phew!

Sometimes people can annoyed at being told how the rules really are or dislike being told they are wrong so I just didn't want to come across as a right arse!

 gr1m_dan wrote:
Am I a bad player or rules lawyer when I point out the following (and found a lot more from the game since then that was wrong)

No. Your opponent was indisputably wrong in all of those cases, and you have every right to correct then and expect to play by the rules. It's just unfortunate that some people feel like they're entitled to win half the rule disputes, regardless of who is right, and you're a TFG rules lawyer if you win too many of those disagreements.

Actual rules lawyering is when you argue for a rule interpretation that benefits you and goes against the intent of the rule as judged by a reasonable person. For example, arguing that your opponent's crisis suits can't shoot because LOS is drawn from the model's eyes (and optical sensors aren't eyes) would be rules lawyering. Everyone knows that the RAW in this case is absurd and "eyes" is intended to be interpreted as including eye-like objects on a model's head that have the same purpose as eyes. So by arguing that the crisis suits can't shoot you're no longer making an honest attempt at figuring out how the rules work, you're deliberately looking for loopholes to exploit and gain an advantage.

Your oppo sounds like he is pushing the envelope pretty hard in his army's rules there. To the extent that I would be mistrustful of him if he wasn't someone I knew. Even some honest guys can have the impulse to interpret things generously or not really go looking in the rules for limitations on their units (especially if they feel very competitive about a game) - so no, it doesn't make you TFG and you should make him play correctly.

That's not being tfg at all. My group get's a bit uptight about being corrected on rules too but once they've been solidified everything is fine.

gr1m_dan,

You're not tfg nor a rules lawyer.

Pull out the RB & IG codex every time. That's what they're there for.

Take your rule laundry-list that you typed above, cite every page where the rules straighten in out, and show it to that guy before the next game.

And, geez, you're in Nottingham, so that means you play at GW head quarters, yes? There ought to be folks who know the rules (for those posters ready to pounce on how wrong I can be about that ... yeah, go ahead, I walked into it ).

Nothing wrong with correcting rules. The game is an exchange between two players and both players need to help maintain the rules as we are only human. I play with Warhammer Fantasy guys who have played the last billion editions. Sometimes they have trouble keeping all the rules from the various editions straight in their head.

So, nothing wrong with correcting rules mistakes. It's how you go about it that makes you TFG or not.

You are not "that guy" just for pointing out rules.
If he did know, that makes him TFG.
If he didn't know, someone must tell him so that he won't make the same mistakes every time. Now it was you. Each player should know the rules of his own army at least, and if you have to remind/correct them, it isn't wrong.

 gr1m_dan wrote:
Hey fellas,

I had a game last Thursday against a guy from our small group of gamers (8 of us altogether) and he is generally "the winner". I.E Doesn't like losing and wins most of his games (aside from me who gives him a tough time, mainly over rules).

Am I a bad player or rules lawyer when I point out the following (and found a lot more from the game since then that was wrong)

1) His Vendettas/Valkyries cannot start on the board in Hover mode. NEVER. (Even in the IG FAQ!)

2) His Vendettas/Valkyries cannot ignore my Devilfish "jink" saves just because they are flyers.

3) Flyers don't get a 4+ Evade save UNLESS moving flat out. He thought 4+ was standard Evade.

4) In hover mode he can fire 4 weapons when moving at 12".

5) Primaris Psyker and Battle Psyker squad = Level 2, not 3.

6) Cannot fire Witchfire powers out of a transport that moved flat-out.

They were the big 6 that came up during the game and he's normally a top player and I wouldn't assume he'd abuse the rules but am I a rules lawyer for bringing rules up during the game? Let's face it, I enjoy the game immensely BUT I will not get steam rollered due to rules being vastly misplayed. I just hate the feeling of constantly having to remind or show people a rule or question a rule. I feel like a dick but when I know it's so wrong I can't help it :/ Why should his flyers start on the table? Why should I allow him to hover and fire 4 weapons etc etc.

Is there a boundary to being a rules lawyer and I have I over stepped it? I really don't want to be TFG!!!!!!

I would have no problem with you correcting me on any such points and would in fact, be grateful to you for showing I was cheating.

I might be annoyed if you were particularly rude about how you pointed things out, but I would consider you in the right to point them out regardless.

Every single one of the questions you listed are completely wrong in terms of how the game works. Your "opponent" is simply making gak up.

He's not TFG, is a WAAC POS that is a cancer to the 40k community.