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Hi all
next week i'll play vs Eldar, and i'm pretty dubious about what i should and should not use.
I'm pretty inexperienced (started playing again a month ago and played only 5 game so far... won only one :\ ) and my adversary is experienced; plus, i got not a lot of minis and maybe i should buy and assemble (hopefully also prime) some minis before the game.

Dunno exactly what he will use, but i know he got wraithknight, wave serpent (a lot, 3 or 4 models painted, dunno how much not painted), jetbikes (6 or more), wraith fighter and one or two swooping hawks. And a lot of infantry (dark reaper, fire dragon, striking scorpions, etc). I think he could deploy almost everything on eldar codex
Me, au contraire, got very few heavy veichle (1 dreadnaught, 1 rhino/razorback, 1 baal, 1 pod, 1 stormraven; and i can borrow 1-2 rhino/razorback, 1 stalker, 1 pod and a second dreadnaught), about 10 bike and an attack bike and a lot of troop/infantry

i was planning something like
- a drop pod dreadnaught with anti infantry weapon to drop in front of his line of fire
- Dante + sanguinary guard + sanguinary priest on DoA (1)
- bike squad (8+ attack bike) plus sanguinary priest on bike plus librarian/chaplain/captain on bike
- scout to snipe wraithknight and/or high toughness beasts
- tactical, 'cause you can't win without tactical
- assault + sanguinary guard on DoA (1)

what else? or what can i do different?
a) assault on DoA or rhino/razorback?
b) baal is worth it? or a predator?
c) dreadnaught is really a useful choice?
d) i should use stormraven?
d1) what should i put on stormraven?
e) adding Torquemada to "i've been expecting you" against swooping hawks?

thank you for your help
i'm not expecting to win, just to make a good game and made victory not too easy

ps: we will fight to 1750 point

(1) it depends on the mission, but i can avoid DoA and deploy more squads on the field and jump-running them on close combat

Eldar are a very tough match up for any marine player because with wave serpents they are spiiting out str 6 and str 7 shots generally wounding on 2s. In addition to that Warpsipders, dark reapers, and even dire avengers with enough 6s make short of infantry. The way you want to beat them generally is through objectives. Always, always, always, play to the objective because you will be losing a lot of models.(Hence you should always, always , always try to play 2nd in turn sequence You want to make sure you have variety to be able to at least threaten wave serpents via missile launcers or lascannons. Heck if you want to.. you can even use those to try and snipe down wraithknights. Scouts are a good unit but I would not rely on them to be pluck down a wraithknight in a game. I'd imagine they would get maybe 2 wounds on them the whole game.

What you want are
AV and flamers. You want to be able to blow up their transports and try and shoot or if capable get into range to flame the units that were just takin out via a missile launcher (although hard to do) a dreadnought is not going to be a good choice against elder. Too much of their shooting is rending or str6 and higher so they will undoubtedly glance it to death in short itme... probably via one squad of warpspiders shooting at it for one turn or a wraithknight just getting in combat with it. I wouldn't recommend a dread unless your are taking it with a all comers approach, however as it seems you are tailoring your list just to play this one elder player I wouldn't take it.

SR would be really good choices. I'd out fit them with MM and Assault cannons. TBH I have yet to come across a Bloodangels army yet that didn't have 2 of them where I play at... so I don't what that is all about but it must be for a good reason. They would provide much needed capability to try and pop wave serprents and put wounds on wraith knights via rending assault cannon shots.

So what I'd be looking at would be something like trying to work in what you have is...


2x 10 Tacticals
rhino, Missile Launcher Flamer
Combat sqwuad them so that the falmer marines are in the rhinos and the missile launcher team is at home on an objective.

2x SR MM, AC.

Biker squad x8 w attackbike
Combat squad them make sure to have a mm and flamer for each squad (pop transports flame the people inside also to deal wounds to wraithknights)

consider possibly if you have the points for 2x Baal Predators.

Then working in your assault squads in some manner...I'm not sure Dante is a good choice but if you've had success or have an idea on how to work him in then by all means play him. This is all just suggestion at the end of the day... your list so you decide what you want to play. Hope this helps

Umm BA are probably the weakest army in the game right now (maybe just edged out by the new Nids lol), whereas Eldar are considered the best (possibly behind Tau). It's going to be a massacre if your opponent's bringing the right stuff. My advice - don't worry about winning, just bring something to have fun with, because it's going to be a very uphill battle in any case.

Besides, according to GW, the whole point of the game now is to "FORGE A NARRATIVE!!!!"

Just make sure the narrative is a BA massacre.

You fellas are horrible advice givers Don't listen to em OP you can still possibly pull out a win just remember what I said..

You want missiles,lascannons, meltaguns, SR's for popping vehicles and you want flamers for getting rid of troops. As a blood angels playeryou can bring plenty of that. You have the BAAL Predator You have SR. you have tacticals that can run missile and flamer...YUou even said said you were bringing bikes which can be used to get into range with melta guns. The easiest way to get rid of wave serpents is to surround them and assault them. They go down roughly 90% of the time if you can tactically position yourself to do so.

I play GK/SW and had a great game with a fantastic elder player that beat me in the last rouge trader tournament barely because I couldn't make one final 3+ save to contest an objective/ horridly deepsturck the full 12" away on a scatter to miss deepstriking onto an objective. This time around (RTT just yesterday) we went at it again and I etched out a win by one objective at the end of the day by being able to burn off his guardian squad holding an objective despite the beating he did on my army... I have 46 models in my list... at the end there were only 10 left on the board. He ran 2x wraithknights, 3x wave serpents with dire avengers, 10 warpspiders, elderad with a full man dark reaper squad with perfect timing... I mean that is one hell of a nasty list... and for gk that is generally not a match up you want especially with the mobility of their force but through good tactical play I barely eeked out a win so my majoly assault oriented army can beat them... a Blood angels force with focus on melta guns and acess to missile launcers/lascannons along with SR. can surely pull out a win if played correctly

BTW Practice makes perfect make sure you try out your list before playing said elder player that you will be going up against

Ty for your help
obviously my goal is to just have fun; i'm not worried about winning and i know BA at the moment is maybe the worst of all codex
but if i can manage to score some point, i will be happy

so far, listen to all your advice, this is a raw list; unluckily i got only one stormraven (model are way too expensive X_X )

- Assault I -> jump pack, with 2x flamer and sanguinary priest with power axe (eldar have high initiative). sergeant got power weapon too
maybe on DoA, maybe deployed on field and also combat squad
- Bike squad -> 8x bike w/meltagun, attack bike w/multi melta, sergeant w/power axe and melta bomb
in this squad also priest with power axe and librarian (warlord) w/shield of sanguinius and blood lance
- Tactical I and II -> those 2 squad are identical, w/flamer and missile launcher and using a razorback (i would need to borrow a rhino from a SM friend but it's ok).
razorback are with heavy flamer. ofc both are combat squadded [flamer inside razorback, missile launcher holding position]
- Scout -> always worth (they score, they snipe, they infiltrate... i like the scout )
- Baal predator -> heavy flamer sponsoon and flamestorm cannon
- Stormraven -> Assault Cannon and MM
all for 1735. what can i get with 15 points?
a collection of multi melta??

some note:
a) i used stormraven only one time and found not really useful. however, i forgot i'm NOT forced to use as a transport (i can use it just as a flying shooting platform)
b) why using 2 tactical and 1 assault? a 10-man razorback assault squad cost 10 point less than a tactical, are scoring, and i lose just a missile launcher but are way more useful in close combat (if necessary)
c) i was thinking about dante + sanguinary 'cause i never used it ( ) and i see many people use dante + a lot of sanguinary guard...
d) it could be worth to squeeze mephiston inside the army list (removing something huge), maybe embarking it inside first rhino available and throw him to something big? or it's just a waste of point?

You have to kill the wave serpents. That's what it boils down to. The serpents will eat your lunch. Wraithknights die to either volume of fire or snipers. Don't waste your shots on the knight until the serpents are down. Just ignore him for the first turn or two. If you shoot at the wraithknight before the serpents go down you are doing EXACTLY what he wants you to. And as mentioned deploy 2nd to position your guns on the serpents.

BA can't pack in enough shots to kill Wave Serpents in time. I've tried four different BA lists against Eldar. I had to get out C:SM to get my only Eldar win.

my only victory (on 5 match) was vs Eldar (another friend)
i was using White Scars allied (bike, of course, tacticals and scout)

bike was devastated in one single turn by dark reaper (if my memory hold) so not useful. tactical and scout are pretty similar to BA's
i won solely on points; 'cause i used JAS to capture objective on his side, librarian on bike to kill the last one scoring unit he got, and tactical sergeant luckily survived until the end of the game holding the objective in my side while under heavy enemy fire
DC did an horrible death being just addictional hit point for terminator chaplain; ok they died honorable but 300 points for a +6w on chaplain is a bit high cost in my opinion.

i can always use allies (many time wondering about a GK allies just to use vindicaire assassin...); i can also proxy my army and use it like ravenguard and/or another SM codex, but i like the red space vampire so i think they are worth trying.
i could use this SR-list, or go to a full JAS and drop-pod heavy assault list, wichever got me less time to assemble minis (i still have 3x bike + 1 attack bike on plastic wrapped box u_u )

honestly, i don't see how i could kill the big tank without using predator or vindicator, both really expensive and not so useful for BA
SR enter at 2nd turn (if you are lucky...) and long range dread seems a total waste of point... so i'm guessing i will need to ignore them as long as i could keep objective with my troop choices, or trying to surround them quickly with fast melta options (aka bike squad )

How you won your game against elder is how you usually win games against elder in this editon Sacrifice on the largest scale along with playing to objective points. I also love the fact that you just want to have fun...all that matters

I don know how many assault marines are in your first assault squad but I would recommend that if you have 10 break them into 5 man units. I can't tell you enough howmuch a big deal it is to only lose 5 members ina shooting phase rather than 1. Also it ends up usually being that last dood or 2 that actually end up making the difference. You will makeup points just by forcing your opponent have to waste another unit shooting to finish off the rest of what was a 5 man squad. Works wonders also combat squad your bikers.. Simply put... Combat Squad anything that can be combat squaded but I think your list is fine.

a. I also have that same luck as you not getting much use out of stormravens... so personally I would say that if you don't work well with a unit even if it is a good unit which they are... scrub it. Find another unit that works well but you find having more success with. Possibly even a second Baal Predator or maybe even just a normal predator just to use to snipe down range with full decked out lascannon fire... It's sole purpose as... wave serpent/ wraithknight hunting. In fact running 2x fully decked out lascannon predators might be something to consider that's a lot of anti-vehicle/anit- wraithknight and they have fantastic range. just make sure to protect them from d cannons by getting them behind some measure of cover/ backing them up from deepstriking warpspider squads with your objective camping missile launcher teams.

Playing vs wave serpent spam is not really fun. Basically this list outshoots and outmaneuvres you. And they're way harder to kill than your forces. So either you totally outplay him and be lucky or loose. Also if you totally outplay him but he still has bikes - they have a good chance of capturing or denying your objectives last turn. However, as said above, it's possible.

I don't know about playing the objectives tbh. Have you played against eldar jetbikes? 48 move means they can contest or hold almost every objective they want on the last turn.

For tackling waveserpents, I would say dropping meltas behind them is your best bet. Dreadnoughts are not great, and especially not vs massed str 7 fire.

If you can get into assault with one then great, do it. But a good eldar player shouldn't give you too many opportunities for this.

Mechanized BA can be quite efficient, and works great because you can take landraiders as dedicated transports for tactical squads.

Try making a wall of armoured VA13/14 vehicles, capped at either end with landraiders. This way all of the str 6 scatter laser fire is worthless, and the str 7 can only glance the front of most your vehicles, as the will not be able to get any side shots.
At 1750 you could easily fit in 2 landraiders with tac squads, 3 vindicators, 2 baal predators and a cheap HQ choice and still be under 1500 points. With the extra points you could get more troops, and possibly try to ally in some DA to get a PFG to sit behind your tanks and give them a 4++ save.

That's what I would try if I was trying to win, or at least compete with a serpent spam list when using BA.

Hope that helps.

Such expensive things liek landraiders are no good vs lances they easilly get for 2 timel lower points. Av 14 is not bad but it's still 12 vs lances. Mass wagonz can work cause for 250 you can get 2 and have some spare points left. Also u're in constant 5+ cover thanks to mek. Even so, from my experience, av14 wall is meh vs eldar cause they're too fast and pack lances for cheap. Not as massed as dark eldar have but still.

@Big Blind Bill
I definitely here you on playing to the objectives when there are cheap scoring bike units coming from reserves. The ways to deal with that is either go 2nd which should be your aim, or as soon as they do come from reserve;. Focus fire the crap out of them. Don't get me wrong they can be hidden but hey you have to try anything you can. Plus if you know that there are bikes keep that in mind when your setting down objectives so that the ones they have to go after are either out of reach or in the open so that you can just shoot them off when they try to grab them, or one that you know you can will have a hold of which means they will be coming only to contest, meaning all you need is to be able to contest or take one of your opponents. From my knowledge most people mainly run 2 squads of 3 bikes so if you can hold down 3 objectives your looking in good shape.

Also in addition to advice given from previous post, always, always, always, play to your game. Play to how you want to play. Don't think ahead to all the horrendous possibilities eldar can do to you. Who know they might have an absolutely horrendous next turn. In the RTT last saturday my opponent spent 5 units shooting at one my allied detachment space wolf squad that had a rune priest in it which had come from drop assault. Not only did he fail to wound him with 2 waveserpents a full dark reaper unit and 2 wraithknights with D cannons, my opponent also charged a wraithknight into my squad wiffed on all its attacks but 1 which got look out sired was hit back by my rune priest and took a FW axe to his knee instantly killing him.. Which was a drastic making in the game as had he wiped that squad off which we would find out later to be the game deciding moment as I held an objective and he didn't so I won. Be mindful that doesn't mean doing absolutely rediculous scuicide runs, what I'm trying to say is play how you need to play when you have to despite the return fire. If you need to do that In order to win then don't scare your ownself out of it. You have a higher chance playing towards your own goals as well as keeping in mind objectives on the board then focusing on return fire or when that bike unit will come in. Who knows that bike unit may come in early and now be in the open able to be shot up. All in All just play your own game not your opponents.

again ty for your advices

i thought fast moving bike with 2x melta, multimelta on attack bike, and also some combimelta/infernus/other on veteran could be a good choice to quickly overrun wave serpent and hunt them down; obviously i will need to be aware of dark reaper but it's fine
if i put sanguinary priest for FNP and librarian for sanguinius shield (and blood lance) for improve survivability, and this squad could be a good choice for anti tank... right?
i can also combat squad them with 2x melta, attack bike and one of them with a characther (which one? librarian or priest?) and use the other one to contest, fast assault or just to cover something else

i see someone use furioso dreadnaught on drop pod 'cause av13, and also he could do serious damage on close combat (also with magna grapple to move heavy veichle on assault range OR move them away from something). But someone also sais dreadnaught are not a good choice against eldar

stormraven can be a serious anti tank and anti flyer weapon, but i dunno how much he will tankspam; my concern is i fulfill an heavy anti tank army to fight a light and fast eldar army, or viceversa
so stormraven are really so good or just an option to use if i choose to not use something else (ie stormraven vs melta bike squad)?

could be useful to put torquemada to "intercept" his reserve (including swooping hawk)? or a xeno inquisitorial with conversion beamer?
or stretch a GK alliance to put a sniper assassin (vindicaire?)
a friend of mine adviced me this tactic but i really don't seems very viable

as for mechanized BA i don't have enought tank to do it; i see many post about razorspam but seems no more useful on 6th. Jump Pack assalt seems much my style but it always seems to me i will need big units with priest to keep them alive, so i almost never squad them...

 koooaei wrote:
Such expensive things liek landraiders are no good vs lances they easilly get for 2 timel lower points. Av 14 is not bad but it's still 12 vs lances. Mass wagonz can work cause for 250 you can get 2 and have some spare points left. Also u're in constant 5+ cover thanks to mek. Even so, from my experience, av14 wall is meh vs eldar cause they're too fast and pack lances for cheap. Not as massed as dark eldar have but still.

I don't know where you are putting these lances tbh. If the serpents are taking lances, then they are not taking scatter lasers, so they are much less dangerous vs everything else, and only put out 1 lance shot per turn. War walkers might be dangerous, taking 2 bright lances each, but they are more easily dealt with than serpents.

Most TAC eldar lists do not have too many lances nowadays. str 7 spam deals with most vehicles if hitting the side armour.

Now for a mech list like this, investing 50 points into an aegis line is a great investment.

If you consider the maths of a lance vs a landraider behind an aegis line: a bright lance only has a 16% chance to take off a hull point, and a 3.7% chance to destroy it in 1 shot.

Personally, I'd take those chances. It depends on your meta of course, however in most places there has been a move away from heavy armour and anti tank weapons, so fielding them now can really disrupt some lists.

Land Raiders aren't a good solution because the dakka they put out is so low for their points that they can be ignored.

I used a drop poded Furioso Fragnouhht and he made an entire guardian squad +attached IC dissapear upon arrival and then proceeded to get blown away. I lost that battle but it was a pretty close run thing. I should mention that we were playing fluffy armies. I had scouts, with an attached psyker inquisitor. So probably not a realistic assessment.

Martel732 wrote:
Land Raiders aren't a good solution because the dakka they put out is so low for their points that they can be ignored.

From a fire power perspective sure. For protecting your troops from serpent spam until you need to score and capping either end of an armoured wall to prevent flanking str 7 shots, however, I find them very worthwhile. Just take them as LRC to put out some anti infantry firepower, and let the predators and vindicators at the centre put out more serious firepower.

This is about making BA competitive vs eldar. Without vehicles I just don't see how they can do it.

I really don't like tailoring discussions. Are the LRs a general solution to BA woes? No. Because you might have to play DE instead of Eldar and then you get hosed. A priori knowledge of the opponent is not a good assumption in my opinion.

Martel732 wrote:
I really don't like tailoring discussions. Are the LRs a general solution to BA woes? No. Because you might have to play DE instead of Eldar and then you get hosed. A priori knowledge of the opponent is not a good assumption in my opinion.

I would say they are a good general solution actually. Sure you might play DE who have lots of cheap lances. But in 6th edition and against most newer codices BA have to rely on their vehicles, and landraiders compliment a mechanized army quite well.

This isn't tailoring a list just to beat eldar, BA vehicles are just more efficient now than a jump pack army versus most opposition. DE perhaps excluded.

That might be the case. I'd have to think hard about it. I guess my big issue is that eventually you have to get out of the LR to score. You may very well be correct. Probably the biggest issue being that the razorback just evaporates.

I am grasping at straws here though. BA are one of the most dated and under powered codices at the moment. With the changes to assault and new shooty codices BA aren't reaching cc in any meaningful numbers.

The one thing they do have over other marine books however is fast vehicles, tanks in fast attack, and Landraiders as dedicated transport for tac squads.

Vindicators that move 12 and can still shoot are terrifying.

It might not be the best list ever, but a mechanized BA army is imo the most competitive a BA army can be until they get updated.

For a list, what about this: (I know the OP said he doesn't have this many vehicles, but in general something like this may work)

HQ
Librarian

Troops
Tactical squad - 10 man, Plasmagun, Missile launcher, Dedicated transport: Landraider (lascannons)
Tactical squad - 10 man, Plasmagun, Missile launcher, Dedicated transport: Landraider (lascannons)

Fast attack
Bhaal Predator - side sponson heavy bolters
Bhaal Predator - side sponson heavy bolters

Heavy support
Vindicator - Dozerblade
Vindicator - Dozerblade
Vindicator - Dozerblade

Fortifications
Aegis Defense line

Points 1750

Ok the general setup is to form a parking lot using cover and the aegis line so as to give most of your vehicles a save. If facing ordnance then spread out. If not then form a solid line with the landraiders protecting the flanks, giving the enemy only AV14/13 to shoot at.

Tac squads can combat squad to give you a potential of 4 scoring units. With their access to cheap weapons they come out at exactly the same price as a new 6th edition SM tac squad, which is nice.

The landraider type can be changed if needed. I went with the lascannons as the list lacks ranged anti tank/MC ability. It also has the best range of the 3 options.

What do you think?

Edit: Take one landraider as a crusader or redeemer, as without it you will not have enough space to hide your librarian inside it. I play crusaders so much I forgot how bad basic landraiders are at transporting people.

You fellas forget the OP said the eldar player has a D-cannon... so in other words his eldar can deal with them...

@OP
1.Stormraven vs melta bike- Like I said above they are good units but you said you don't have much luck with the Stormraven so I would always play the unit I play best with, but that is your call

2.Coteaz/ conversion beamer are decent but not great for the amount of points they are.. your opponent is not going to deepstrike anything wwithin your 12" bubble/ conversion beamers cost alot. but if they work for you go ahead and take them. try em out

3.Don't take vindicare assassin I'd suggest in this one. Too much shooting is coming his way and he only gets 1 turbo penetrator shot which will be used on a wave serpent with a 4+ cover save.

4.Yea you will need some vehicles to support how you are trying to play. You have bikers and tacticals in rhinos moving up the field but you need more threat and that is where Baal Predators or Las cannon Predators in the back sniping down range come from. It will give you a higher chance to get down field

5. If you are taking a libby I'd highly suggest giving him artificer armor to give hima 2+ save. Have him tank all the saves one at a time unit he loses a wound. then put them on the other members of the squad. Eldar when they are shooting at you without rending or AP2 have a tough time against 2+ saves.


Edit**
@Big Bang Bill
I think that list would actually do quite well against Eldar as long as they doun't out maneuvere you to get side shots on the vindicators and Bhaal Predators. I don't know if this is a list you designed or supposed to be given to the op to play. However in either case I would not recommend an Aegis. Your list is a mobile list so to be sitting back at home is not going to help out much. it would free up 50 points. Also flamers over plasma. Most of eldar are geting cover saves so denying it with ap2 really has no relevance since they have 5+/4+ saves normally. at least a flamer can wipe a squad of guardians off. Finally I like 2 Vindicators but cannot deny I Like the idea of taking some bikes. You could drop one 1 vindi as well as the aegis, the plasma guns down to flamers and free yourself up some points to get a bike squad in there. I feel 20 infantry models at 1750 is kind of on the low side. I feel 25+ is more healthy as if your Land raider goes down to a D cannon shot... your not gonna be too happy Only reason I say it's possible is I had a full wound Dreadknight insta gibbed by the D before... it was very devastating.

A unit I've had a bit of luck with is coteaz + 5 jokaero + 6 bolter acolytes in a chimera (if you are playing lots of preds put them on a skyshield for 4++ and good LOS.

Its quite expensive ~350 including coteaze but its scoring and, hey, 5 twin linked lascannons (and a 1/3 chance to ignore cover or get reroll saves for coteaz tanking).

Also acolytes with 3 plasma and 5 bolters in chimera rock in around 125 points

I think that list would actually do quite well against Eldar as long as they doun't out maneuvere you to get side shots on the vindicators and Bhaal Predators. I don't know if this is a list you designed or supposed to be given to the op to play. However in either case I would not recommend an Aegis. Your list is a mobile list so to be sitting back at home is not going to help out much. it would free up 50 points. Also flamers over plasma. Most of eldar are geting cover saves so denying it with ap2 really has no relevance since they have 5+/4+ saves normally. at least a flamer can wipe a squad of guardians off. Finally I like 2 Vindicators but cannot deny I Like the idea of taking some bikes. You could drop one 1 vindi as well as the aegis, the plasma guns down to flamers and free yourself up some points to get a bike squad in there. I feel 20 infantry models at 1750 is kind of on the low side. I feel 25+ is more healthy as if your Land raider goes down to a D cannon shot... your not gonna be too happy Only reason I say it's possible is I had a full wound Dreadknight insta gibbed by the D before... it was very devastating.

Keeping the sides covered with the landraiders is certainly very important when facing serpent spam. The list is one I just made up that would make the best use of BA's assets.
The Aegis cover save cuts down incoming anti tank fire by half which is very nice, although I agree it may get in the way once vehicles have to start moving (The reason why the vindicators have dozerblades).
I put the plasma on the tac squads to help counter riptides/ wraithlords, however I agree flamers are perfectly viable as well.
20 models is few, but I would hope that having them in an AV 14 box would help keep them safe, especially when the opposing anti tank weapons are stretched very thin. I agree this is a potential issue.
If including bikes then I would certainly go with MM attack bikes. They are the best deal for BA when compared to the new Codices. If they are the only non-AV unit on the board however, then I fear they will face the lions share of the enemy's shooting phase.

The problem a mech list will have is when the opponent turns up with lance walker squadrons. Simple answer - podded furioso with frag cannon, melta and magna grapple. Makes a mess of war walker squadrons.

Hi all
i dunno exactly what he will bring on the table; i saw him playing with bike and fliying-thing and a lot of infantry (including fire dragon, dark reaper and swooping hawk) and one single waveserpent; btw i know he got a lot of waveserpent 'cause he borrowed them to another friend who was playing a waveserpent spam
oh and i saw wraithknight on his facebook profile so i know he got it

however, i got no land raider, and i got only 1 baal, 1 rhino (papercraft X_X); plus 2 rhino, 1 stalker and 1 or 2 rhino i can borrow from some friends, so eventually i can proxy something similar (ofc i can use a rhino with a turret to proxy a razorback but i can't proxy a land raider with it X_X )
so at the moment a mech assault list is not a viable option. I can drop pod something (1 pod mine, 1 or 2 from friends) and got plenty (ie two) dreadnaught (one is an old metal model so i can throw him on the table to shatter enemy miniature, break the table in half and maybe create an hole on the ground )

on the future i could plan on buying some more baal and/or land raider but this could be a loooong shot

so i'm stick to run to the opponent (or at least jump assault to them)

 Dezstiny wrote:

@OP
1.Stormraven vs melta bike- Like I said above they are good units but you said you don't have much luck with the Stormraven so I would always play the unit I play best with, but that is your call

Well, i used it only one time...
so really dunno if it's worht, but the only one time i used it was a completely waste of points, and when exploded dropped dreadnaught between his most powerful CC unit and two melta using units... X_X

 Dezstiny wrote:

2.Coteaz/ conversion beamer are decent but not great for the amount of points they are.. your opponent is not going to deepstrike anything wwithin your 12" bubble/ conversion beamers cost alot. but if they work for you go ahead and take them. try em out

3.Don't take vindicare assassin I'd suggest in this one. Too much shooting is coming his way and he only gets 1 turbo penetrator shot which will be used on a wave serpent with a 4+ cover save.

ok for vindicaire; i used it a long time ago (i suppose was 2nd edition... i'm talking about around 15 years ago...) and was really overpower but dunno if today is still ok
as for Coteaz, i was thinking about him just 'cause i can put him around an objective and he can intercept swooping bird; also i was thinking about inquisition 'cause i studied it for last game i played and i found some interesting solutions (inquisitor cost only 25 point, and +30 point for a 6 acolyte squad i can use as additional wound for inquisitor ) but really dunno if it's worth it
ok i don't put them, i will save those 70-100 point for something else

 Dezstiny wrote:

4.Yea you will need some vehicles to support how you are trying to play. You have bikers and tacticals in rhinos moving up the field but you need more threat and that is where Baal Predators or Las cannon Predators in the back sniping down range come from. It will give you a higher chance to get down field

Ok for a baal predator; i will need more than one? or one is ok?
i can also borrow a predator from a friend, so maybe i can put 2x baal or 1 baal + 1 lascannon predator

 Dezstiny wrote:

5. If you are taking a libby I'd highly suggest giving him artificer armor to give hima 2+ save. Have him tank all the saves one at a time unit he loses a wound. then put them on the other members of the squad. Eldar when they are shooting at you without rending or AP2 have a tough time against 2+ saves.

X_X
you can't give artificier to librarian... [at least not in the 5th edition codex i use, not in the faq from GW homepage (september is the last one, right?)]
however, i'm putting in on bike so i could use the jinks save. using also a SP on bike squad i can have FNP so i guess i can do similar thing, right?
also, i'm planning on put sanguinary shield on him so i can use a 5++ save (and also shield friend units in range)

ok so this is what i can do removing stormraven and tricking a little more:
- Assault I -> jump assault with 2x flamer, priest with PW and veteran with PW (i think about axe or maul)
- Assault II -> jump assault with 2x flamer, priest with PW and veteran with PW. they are pretty similar
i can save 90 points by using a single priest and try sticking them all close to him;
i can also combat squadding them just to add targets and increase mobility (mainly depend on mission rolled)
- Tactical -> with razorback (twin heavy flamer); flamer and 4 normal goes into the razor, while sergeant (with melta bomb) and missile hold the line
- Scout -> 5 with snipe and no heavy weapon. i think there is always space for 5 scout in any SM army... or i'm wrong?
- Bike squadron -> 2x melta, multi-melta attack bike for a pew pew vs veichle. Also, librarian (warlord) and sanguinary priest goes to this unit that form my more expensive unite so far.
I can combat squad them (2x melta and attack bike in one side, librarian and priest on the other one) for more mobility
Librarian are just for shield of sanguinius (and also 'cause are less expensive HQ choice... )
- Baal predator -> flamestorm cannon, heavy flamer sponsoon
- Baal predator -> same as previous one

i can squeeze 30 or 40 more point (where? removing one priest?) and remove one baal to put a lascannon predator or a drop pod-ed furioso fragnaught

You have quite a few rhinos there. Now whilst they will get absolutely destroyed by waveserpents, I suggest you use them just to try and block line of sight to your foot slogging units.

Blocking line of sight and supporting them with FNP priests is the only way I can see you getting close to him.

Attack bikes and normal bikes both work fine here. You will need the speed to catch him, remember waveserpents can boost 30 inches, and jetbikes can go 48 (and possibly another 2 d6, I can't remember if they can do this if they boost).
You will need some kind of shooting to cut down their numbers, because assaulting them is very, very difficult.

each-uisge wrote:
Dunno exactly what he will use, but i know he got wraithknight, wave serpent (a lot, 3 or 4 models painted, dunno how much not painted), jetbikes (6 or more), wraith fighter and one or two swooping hawks. And a lot of infantry (dark reaper, fire dragon, striking scorpions, etc). I think he could deploy almost everything on eldar codex

Not sure if its too late, but if he usually runs the WK, 4+ wave serpents and jetbikes (possibly seer/lock deathstar?) he's playing a fairly competitive list. With you still being able to count your 40k games played on one hand, might he be willing to tone it down a bit? I would hope, if he's as experienced as you believe him to be, he wouldn't mind bringing some of the units in the Eldar Dex that don't regularly show up in buckets at GT's. You are just getting started, and you are playing BA's. You're being very nice to him.

You seem to have a great attitude, I'd hate to see that get stomped into dust just because the guy doesn't realize he should tone it down for the bettterment of the game and hobby. We all start somewhere. I'm not saying that he should throw the game, but overloading your low model count army with Serpents while he runs his Seercouncil up to smash the remnants into dust isn't necessary. Especially if he could deploy most of the units in the Eldar dex. Just saying, if it were me as the Eldar player, I'd do you the courtesy of showing you something besides just the best units in the best Dex going right now.

That being said, play the objectives, remember BA ASM's can carry melta's, bring them in their freebie pod and at least make him worry about you dropping them behind his Serpents and brewing them up. They also get cheap combi-weapons on their sternguard, heroic intervention vanguard (i still find them OKAY with using meltabombs in small squads) divination librarians are great with sternguard dumping poison rounds into WK's. They don't last too long when they have to re-roll successful saves and you're re-rolling misses and wounding on 2's.

Not that these are auto-win tactics, but they can be effective. Though admittedly the best the BA have pale in comparison to the shinies the Eldar dex can put ALL OVER the table. Good luck, and good hunting!