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clively wrote:
Absolutely not.

D10 dice are far more round than the humble D6. A D10 die has the probability of rolling COMPLETELY OFF THE TABLE far more often than D6's currently do.

So, no, I don't want to see D10s as there are plenty of people who already have a hard time making sure D6's stay on the table.

Next, and this is even more important. Rolling 2D6 means that your average result is 7. This makes it far easier from a game designer's perspective to control the impact of random events. It means that they can increase or decrease the damage caused by picking results based on the probability of a particular roll.

For example, double 1's and double 6's are the least common result (1/36 each) so making a psyker take a perils test on those results allows for an event to occur only 1 in 18 rolls (5% of the time on average). A D10, on the other hand, doesn't have an average result. Rolling a 2 is just as common as rolling a 7 or 9. So, for them to say a psyker takes a perils test on a 1 means that a perils test will happen far more often (10%).

Now, the counter here is that you roll D10s for some things and D6s for others. To which I say "No Way". I don't want to carry any more dice than I need. One 36 chessex block plus 1 directional die is just fine thank you very much.

Your argument is based on sound principles. However part of your argument relies on the use of 2d6. As I observed earlier, use of 2d6 makes it not possible to multi-roll several tests at once. One to roll fifteen To-Hit rolls with 2d6? You have to roll fifteen times. Not viable, and thus you come back to the reduced range of a single d6.

Whilst what you say about their being no 'average' result on a d10 is true for a single roll of a die, it is also a semi-meaningless statement as an average is by definition across multiple incidents. And the average roll (by which I am saying the mean average) of multiple rolls of d10 tends toward 5.5. What you're actually stating is that the possible results of a 2d6 roll are not equally probable with each other whilst those if a d10 are. This is true, but the question is if it is an advantage. Firstly, you can achieve exactly the same effect with 2d10. It's a consequence of multi-die rolls, not the type of die. So if there is merit to it, the question must be asked why it is an argument for d6 over d10.

Secondly, it makes scaling rather difficult because probability of result diminishes more rapidly away from the mean. By which I mean if you're (example) trying to roll 7+ on a d10 that's a 40% chance and if you're trying 8+ that's a 30% chance and 9+ is a 20% chance, etc. I.e. a gain of 1BS is the same value whether you move from BS3 to BS4 or from BS4 to BS5. But the difference between trying to roll 7+ on 2d6 53% an 8+ (42%) is 11% whils the difference between, 11+ (8%) and 12 (3%) is 5%, i.e. the gaps between probabilities are no longer fixed like the 10% increase every time with the d10, but become variable. An increase from BS4 to BS5 is no longer worth as much as an increase from BS5 to BS6.

That makes it rather difficult to handle things like Toughness, Strength, etc.

Not saying it can't be done. I for one would be very comfortable with the implications of 2d6, etc. But I think many would find the fact that points of an attribute became less distinguishable the further away from the mean you go to be a problem. And there remains the question of why - if this were valuable - it should be done on a 2d6 rather than 2d10 as it is the number of dice not the type, which produces this effect.

Anyway - some thoughts.

I don't think the end justifies the means. Yes, it would be nice to have a wider range of meaningful numbers. No, I don't think carting around and rolling 30+ d10 is practical. Not only do they have a bigger footprint, but they aren't as easy to read from angles and distance (and with beer goggles on).

What 40k needs isn't more numbers to write rules around but more thought put into the rules and their ramifications. /soapbox A game on the scale of kill points, though, I agree would benefit from using a d10 over a d6. In that setting, fewer dice are rolled at once, so the major con of base-d10 is negated.

I like being able to use dice from a game of Risk to teach people, or the option to use Las Vegas uber-balanced god-dice for tournaments. D6 should stay.

Also, you automatically become more of a nerd/geek gamer and less of a normal person when you use non-d6 dice:
- Girls seeing D6 gamers in the mall: "ooooh look at those hot guys playing a game in that store"
- Girls seeing D10/D20 gamers in the mall: "eewww look at those smelly guys with ugly beards in that loser store they probably live in their parents' basement"

If you think rolling a d6 makes you look hot, you are sadly mistaken...

A new special 20-sided dice from GW? http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-455357.html

Lot of money for GW and less random results for players.

 heartserenade wrote:
If you think rolling a d6 makes you look hot, you are sadly mistaken...

It just makes you less ugly than rolling a D10

Not to goth chicks who are into Vampire: the Masquerade.

 greyknight12 wrote:
I like being able to use dice from a game of Risk to teach people, or the option to use Las Vegas uber-balanced god-dice for tournaments. D6 should stay.

Also, you automatically become more of a nerd/geek gamer and less of a normal person when you use non-d6 dice:
- Girls seeing D6 gamers in the mall: "ooooh look at those hot guys playing a game in that store"
- Girls seeing D10/D20 gamers in the mall: "eewww look at those smelly guys with ugly beards in that loser store they probably live in their parents' basement"

You do know that casino dice are not well balanced for 40k and are among the easiest dice to cheat with right?

Beyond that it is not as if d10 or d12 are hard for people to understand. It's a number on a dice if they don't know what that number is they shouldn't be playing 40k.

Beyond that you are playing a game at a "nerd" shop already...dice won't change how it looks.

The problem isnt d6 vs d10, the problem is that writing rules are not a priority at GW and so they dont commit the resources needed to develop good rule sets for fantasy or 40k.

Why the focus on D10? D12 actually would work better in a lot of ways and also be easy to transition to, since its the natural increment and doubles the amount of values you can use.

Everything that rolled D6 doubles their stat, e.g. BS4 -> BS8. The new "7" is 16 (weirdly enough).
3+ therefore turns into a 8+ on a D12. 66% vs 66%.

Edit: Erh, bad thinking. Only works with BS4... Gak.

Everything that rolled 2D6 stays exactly the same.

Things only start to get difficult if you roll 3D6 and discard one.
New Tables for to Wound would be required, but I don't regard that as a big problem.

No.

Imagine bringing 60+ D10 to a game. No. No.

I'd love to have the game conceptually with a d10 or d12. It would add to more diversity which would be rather entertaining. That being said, I have to say no simply because, for starters, they aren't as accessible, secondly, they seem to be more liekly to roll off, and finally, I would never play against or play as orks or any other hoardy army it is already bad enough with d6. On a quick note, d10 or d12 is better in my eyes than a 2d6.

 greyknight12 wrote:

Also, you automatically become more of a nerd/geek gamer and less of a normal person when you use non-d6 dice:
- Girls seeing D6 gamers in the mall: "ooooh look at those hot guys playing a game in that store"
- Girls seeing D10/D20 gamers in the mall: "eewww look at those smelly guys with ugly beards in that loser store they probably live in their parents' basement"

Of all the reasons given not to use d10's (and there are some very good ones), your self-consciousness has to be the worst.

What happens if a girl uses a d10, btw? Does she explode?

I personally prefer the D20 to the D10, but as other people stated, it'd take an unlikely massive overhaul.

There are TONS of GOOD rule sets that use D6 to great effect.Because they are written for the game play.

40k NEEDS a re write to make it a better playing experience.

40k needs more appropriate game mechanics and resolution methods before you consider changing the size of dice used.IMO.

I do think going up to a D10 would benefit the game greatly. As would scrapping the rule set entirely and starting from scratch with a coherent and well thought out rule set. Both are equally unlikely to happen unfortunately.

 heartserenade wrote:
Not to goth chicks who are into Vampire: the Masquerade.

This person knows what they are speaking of.

40k needs a dice pool or at least 2d6. Bigger issues are IGYG and the strict phrases units most activate in.