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ORks won't be hit as hard as Nids were I hope. We don't have the list of units without models that Nids did. The whole roll a six and your unit eats itself instinctive behavior has me terrified though. There always talk of animosity coming back which I HOPE TO MORK won't happen.

Oh dear god. I just imagined Noise Marines dressed up as Trekkies that fired the concentrated sonic energy from their rants on why "Picard was a superior captain to Kirk"

GW should take the route Magic did and release a self parody set.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Bring back looted tanks (looted titan anyone?) have a single unit of boys who can have either sluggas or shootas. Give orks FNP off the bat. Bring in some crazy flying squiggoth just because.

Let flash gitz take any random weapons, Lootas are cool. and then tidy up the rest.

I would like gitz to be in elite and lootas to be in heavy. How it is currently never made any sense to me. I mean, the lootas have heavy weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Oh dear god. I just imagined Noise Marines dressed up as Trekkies that fired the concentrated sonic energy from their rants on why "Picard was a superior captain to Kirk"

GW should take the route Magic did and release a self parody set.

Well, Wh40k was originally a parody

evilsponge wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Funny how people are complaining so much about the new Tyranid codex even thoughit's been out for 2 damn days

Nobody likes change that's the problem...everyone will find something to complain about

Does time suddenly change things? Sure someone will figure out some power cheese combo in time, but it doesn't change the fact that taken as a whole this codex is pretty bland and disappointing.

God, I wish they changed things - all they did was copy + paste the 5th ed book and the make all our good units significantly worse.

Orkhead wrote:
ORks won't be hit as hard as Nids were I hope. We don't have the list of units without models that Nids did. The whole roll a six and your unit eats itself instinctive behavior has me terrified though. There always talk of animosity coming back which I HOPE TO MORK won't happen.

To be fair, if they roll a 4-5 they charge the nearest enemy unit, and I didn't see any rule that forbade them from moving normally first.
If the nids roll a 6 they get rage on top of it.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
God, I wish they changed things - all they did was copy + paste the 5th ed book and the make all our good units significantly worse.

Plus a bunch of other things too that made units better or canceled out many of the bad things, but you know, hyperbole is fun so let's just roll with it.

If animosity rolls come back it's game over man. Then the whole army is unviable.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. Tyranid players are complaining because there's no screamer-star instant win button. That's the reason. - I can't use those emORKticons enough to describe the dross you just wrote Zwei. I mean really, do you practice being so utterly blind to the world around you Zwie, because it's a remarkably impressive skill level you've got in just how unbelievably off-base your posts tend to be. Just look at any - any - of the multiple Tyranid threads and you'll see why people are complaining.

It's got nothing to do with tournaments or needing screamer-stars or anything. It’s got everything to do with things like Tervigons losing most of their special rules, gaining rules that make them worse, and going up in cost. Like Hive Guard losing BS and yet getting more expensive. Like Synapse allowing units to eat themselves (including units of Carnifexes). Like Warriors being unviable (again), Lictors being useless (again), and Genestealers having no way of getting into assault. Like ScyTals being reduced to weapons that do almost literally nothing. Like Primes going up in cost because… umm… well because! Like Bio-Artefacts being some of the most pathetic and lazy examples of quicky rules writing I’ve seen in a GW Codex for years (you going to sit there and say that the Ymgarl Factor is an excellent upgrade?).

Your unbridled and irrational hatred for the tournament crowd, who you all label as WAAC players at every opportunity, has left you utterly ignorant of the real problems that afflict this game and especially things like this new Codex. You think people are just complaining because there isn’t a broken/odd quirk of the rules/unforseen combo death star unit?

You don’t know a damned thing, and it shows.

Exalted. Everyone reading with a brain agrees with you, which is what matters.


I love how that guy trys to hate on competitive players but has unwillingly turned himself into a powergamer by not properly comprehending the threads. "People whining? Their mentality is so WAAC !!!!" Yet he's basically co-signing a poorly written product for the reasoning that "the army has gotten stronger we are just all too busy whining to realise!". Nothing in his post addresses issues like how we lost a bunch of possible playstyles and unique models, a bunch of useless models were left still useless, with 1 viable troop choice and 1 auto-take HQ choice. Saying competitive army strength is more important than a well balanced and diverse codex is the definition of power gaming. Have fun knowing this is now you.

I just hope Flash gitz become useful. As it is they are only really good against Hero spam. (rolling AP can get some good hits in) but no one plays like that. Tankbustas would also be a good thing to buff up, or decrease cost to.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I just hope Flash gitz become useful. As it is they are only really good against Hero spam. (rolling AP can get some good hits in) but no one plays like that. Tankbustas would also be a good thing to buff up, or decrease cost to.

Yes to both of these. And we could use some more heavy weapons, crazy awesome stuff that really fits the Orks.

 Melissia wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I just hope Flash gitz become useful. As it is they are only really good against Hero spam. (rolling AP can get some good hits in) but no one plays like that. Tankbustas would also be a good thing to buff up, or decrease cost to.

Yes to both of these. And we could use some more heavy weapons, crazy awesome stuff that really fits the Orks.

Like a...squig launcher.

Just a squig with high explosives strapped to it being fired out of a sling shot. It twitches it's way in the general direction of the target, allowing -D3 scatter distance. Or something like that, anyway.

I feel like Orks are one of the few armies who genuinely deserve random tables. (Along with Chaos.) It never made sense to me why armies based on order and precision can't predict what their men will do.

That would be a great mortar weapon using bomb squigs

Could even deploy squig horde units that way, for more amusing fun! (the unit representing one big squig or a horde of smaller ones).

Could also use Flakk Kannonz for AA, that fire an absurd amount of shots against air units and can also be used against to lesser effect against ground units.

Actually, in case of the Ork Codex, treatment similar to CSM and Tyranids "Copypaste old Codex with minor tuning and coupla new units" would work real well. Difference is that the old Ork Codex is actually very solid in its core, and needs only redoing some units to be good.

By contrast, re-write like Tau or Daemons would be terrible, since they'd probably make up all sorts of wacky rules and destroy what was good in the old book in the process.

It could still make use of adding some cool new units.

Also, "wacky rules" is part of what a lot of people like Orks for to begin with!

 Melissia wrote:
It could still make use of adding some cool new units.

Also, "wacky rules" is part of what a lot of people like Orks for to begin with!

Yes, but key factor here is, not everything in Ork codex is "wacky". In fact most core Ork units are very reliable performers: wackiness is an option, if you want some randomness and flavour to your army, there are suitable units and HQ's for that.

What I fear is that they're given Daemons treatment, complete rewrite where "Orky wackiness" is an universal rule for the Orks and before each movement phase you have to roll from an "Orky table" what your units will do, or some similar nonsense.

Backfire wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It could still make use of adding some cool new units.

Also, "wacky rules" is part of what a lot of people like Orks for to begin with!

Yes, but key factor here is, not everything in Ork codex is "wacky". In fact most core Ork units are very reliable performers: wackiness is an option, if you want some randomness and flavour to your army, there are suitable units and HQ's for that.

What I fear is that they're given Daemons treatment, complete rewrite where "Orky wackiness" is an universal rule for the Orks and before each movement phase you have to roll from an "Orky table" what your units will do, or some similar nonsense.

Ork wackiness is currently in tolerable quanities. Any more wackyness will lead to the outright destruction of Ork fluff and viability. This doesn't mean we shouldn't get new units though.

 Melissia wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
God, I wish they changed things - all they did was copy + paste the 5th ed book and the make all our good units significantly worse.

Plus a bunch of other things too that made units better or canceled out many of the bad things, but you know, hyperbole is fun so let's just roll with it.

haha well of course it's hyperbole, but it's not too far off the mark. When I was first reading the Codex, I was stunned by how entire entries had literally been copy + pasted with maybe a very minor change (like adding Psyker Mastery Level for example). Yes, a few new units were added, but they're mostly just flavourful choices - hardly must-buys, which is good because I refuse to pay GW prices these days. Yes, a few units got their prices reduced (most notably Carnifexes) and Mawlocs, Carnifexes and Venomthropes were undoubtably buffed, but so many other lynchpin units were nerfed for no good reason. On top of that, they did absolutely nothing to fix units which were already terrible or struggling to survive (Lictors, Genestealers, Hormagaunts, Tyranid Warriors, etc). Then they also made synapse far more brutal, with extremely harsh penalties for falling back on instinctive behaviour. Oh and as if that wasn't enough, they made my lovely Mycetic Spore and Doom of Malan'tai models completely useless, just to give a middle finger to third-party manufacturers (and by extension, paying Tyranid customers).

Out of curiosity, what in the new Codex made units better (aside from Mawlocs, Venomthropes and Carnifexes) and/or cancelled out bad things?

I just wanna know if Gork's (is it Mork's) psychic foot is coming back..

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I just hope Flash gitz become useful.

Well Flash Gitz don't currently have a kit and a few 3rd party companies are making Ork bits that allow you to make Flash Gitz. Seems like a good reason to drop them from the Codex.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I just hope Flash gitz become useful.

Well Flash Gitz don't currently have a kit and a few 3rd party companies are making Ork bits that allow you to make Flash Gitz. Seems like a good reason to drop them from the Codex.

Yet another flawless example of GW logic
"hey people are making Rhino variants"
"Better drop them next codex"
They punish the player for being too lazy to make models for their own units.

The key is to just not buy the 6th ed Ork codex and "supplements" when it comes out. And play by 4th ed rules with your friends. Nobody games at GW anymore (they don't want gaming either) so it isn't a problem.

 Harriticus wrote:
The key is to just not buy the 6th ed Ork codex and "supplements" when it comes out. And play by 4th ed rules with your friends. Nobody games at GW anymore (they don't want gaming either) so it isn't a problem.

Pretty much. Local GW and gaming space moved out of the mall now, so it's all home gaming. Hell, I technically don't even need Codices, rulebooks of 100% GW models anymore since they stopped hosting gaming space... hmm, thanks GW!

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
The key is to just not buy the 6th ed Ork codex and "supplements" when it comes out. And play by 4th ed rules with your friends. Nobody games at GW anymore (they don't want gaming either) so it isn't a problem.

Pretty much. Local GW and gaming space moved out of the mall now, so it's all home gaming. Hell, I technically don't even need Codices, rulebooks of 100% GW models anymore since they stopped hosting gaming space... hmm, thanks GW!

I remembered when I stopped going to my GW and began gaming at my FLGS it felt as though I had lost something but in it's place I gained more freedom with my army than I could ever dream of before.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Orkhead wrote:
ORks won't be hit as hard as Nids were I hope. We don't have the list of units without models that Nids did. The whole roll a six and your unit eats itself instinctive behavior has me terrified though. There always talk of animosity coming back which I HOPE TO MORK won't happen.

To be fair, if they roll a 4-5 they charge the nearest enemy unit, and I didn't see any rule that forbade them from moving normally first.
If the nids roll a 6 they get rage on top of it.

Ok so I got that wrong it's a roll of one oops.

 kronk wrote:
There is a fair amount of anguish in this Eldar Thread! Click me, I'm a link!

However, I'm holding out comments until I see it for myself this weekend. Just like I did for Space Marines, Tau, Chaos Daemons, and Chaos Space Marines.

Ok, I'm sick of seeing people bring up the Eldar as an example of people whining about a codex (looking at you, Melissia*). I maintain (from memory) that the general consensus once the codex was out was overwhelmingly positive, but memory can be deceptive.

So I went through this thread page by page and counted the number of posters with an overall positive or overall negative opinion of the codex, for any reason. I didn't count anyone that said something like "I like the codex, missed opportunities on unit X though" or whatever as negative, as that is a basically favorable opinion, but even if all someone had to say in the entire thread was "unit X sucks now", I counted that as a negative view. Likewise, anyone saying "unit Y roxxorz" was a positive view.

The results?
Out of over 160 posts from 68 unique Dakkaites, there were 9 separate Dakkaites who made at least one post containing views that were more negative than positive. There were 27 who expressed views that were more positive than negative. There were 3 whose views were so mixed I had to say they were neutral. The other 29 posters comments were basically off topic or not relevant to the question of positive/negative opinion.

As far as negative views go: two posters were concerned that the codex had gotten weaker, two were upset because the rules did not fit the fluff. Two were worried that the codex had large flaws, but were still excited to play it. One poster called the codex "one dimensional and overpowered". One poster literally posted a picture of The Critic saying "It stinks!" and nothing else. One poster said he wanted to shelve his army.

That's literally all I found.

So all in all out of 68 unique users, 39 made comments about their opinion of the codex or some units in it. Only 9 (23%) were disappointed or complaining, while 27 (69%) expressed positive views, while 3 (8%) expressed very mixed opinions.

I challenge anyone to go through a post-release Tyranid discussion thread and come up with a 69% positive response.



*For the record, Melissia commented in the thread and didn't have any complaints about whiners** or doomsayers, instead saying "seems cool enough".

**There were two complaints of "whiners": one about the guy who wanted to shelve his army, and one person mistaking another person's comment for a criticism, when in fact it was not. There was also another person who linked to a thread in the tactics forum and said the majority of views there were positive, for what that's worth.

(Also credit where credit is due, like 3 days after the codex dropped Glocknall stated "jetbikes, Dire Avengers, and Wave serpents will be the new meta", which I thought was pretty cool to see)

 kronk wrote:
There is a fair amount of anguish in this Eldar Thread! Click me, I'm a link!

However, I'm holding out comments until I see it for myself this weekend. Just like I did for Space Marines, Tau, Chaos Daemons, and Chaos Space Marines.

Ravenous D wrote:Just glancing through mine now and Im sure glad I didn't open the wraithknight because that think is crap for 300pts, I'd rather take 2 wraithlords.

besides that:
- Farseers: terrible, I rolled it out a bunch of times and sometimes got Doom fortune, the other powers just blow. I even rolled Eldrad and managed it a few times. If I cant rely on them getting good powers they are a waste of points.

-Warlocks: also terrible, seriously you cant rely on a solid battle plan with these things unless you are getting shrouding, and they cant even join wraithguard!

-Spiritseer: cheaper then I expected but otherwise good, 2 rolls on that table is better then one, still random but its better then nothing.

-Wraithguard/blades: No battle trance is a bummer, but I think having a unit of D scythes will be a combat deterrent unless your enemys want to lose half a unit on the way in. Overall happy with these guys.

-Wraithknight: Waste of points, 280pts for 3 s6 plasma cannon shots? Next.

-Jetbikes: Sweet Jesus, why are the models so bad because these things are busted.

Warpspiders: 6 + 2D6 + D6 + shoot + 2D6 move? Holy feth balls!! and they are S7 against vehicles and everything i3 and lower? Give me 30.

Ravenous D wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


I think Farseers may be best served not taking the default lore, there are just too many bad powers there. Divination and Telepathy are both great though, I see no reason not to roll on those.

Warlocks need some playtesting imo, the Conceal power is pretty nice. LD8, not so much.

Wraithguard are intreasting, that's for sure. I haven't formed an opinion on them just yet.

The Wraith Knight is really underwhelming. However, Prisims and Nightspinners are awesome.

Warpspiders are Jetbikes are also quite excellent.

Its really that Ld8 that kills its, one bad test and your ass in hanging in the wind. Makes it not dependable, and even less dependable if you are going for the other powers, Seems like a seer jet council is the only way to go if you want the things.

I have been tinkering with wraithguard today and the D-scythes are standing out to me, the ability to scare assaulters is pretty nice, the downside is there is lots of weapons that can hurt them.

Yup that sounds exactly what I said about the Nid book.

Most of what I said was right, the only thing is warlocks on jetbikes mixed with baron and rerolls from the venoms didn't hit me right away. Guess what? Nids don't have allies, or BRB powers, its a stand alone book that is option bare. Nothing magical is going to happen before the FAQ or dataslates.

Makumba wrote:

 Code wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Where does this new "people whined about the Eldar codex" meme come from?
I was there. Never happened.

there was whining mostly about stuff that didn't get better , but people wanted it to get better like screamer ladies and everyone whines when something good is droped from the codex like runes .

Have you ever checked the comment section on BOL, there is a real hive of whinners, and yes there was and endless whine about the wave searpent and how it didnt become an assault vehicle, that it was to much expensive dedicated transport, how the runes were nerfed, how the farseer sucks, about the jetbikes, about each one of the aspect warriors, even about battle focus, yes, the poeple whine about battle focus and the rending shurikens

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Ok, I'm sick of seeing people bring up the Eldar as an example of people whining about a codex (looking at you, Melissia

I mentioned it exactly once. Yet some how people seem to think I've done so repeatedly.

I blame zoidberg.

Much to my dismay I fully expect the ork codex to be even more full of random tables, weapons exploding and orks fighting amongst themselves. The current level of randomness is fine, if you don't like it leave your wierdboy/SAG at home.