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When most people say life is unfair, they mean their co-worker getting to leave 10 minutes early and not them. Not getting jailed for what you are.

 Easy E wrote:

 deoverbum wrote:


Last year saw several deadly riots, acts of terrorism and general public discontent with the government due to corruption and poor distribution of wealth from Nigeria’s oil business. The Muslim minority in the north are the poorest in the nation and main group who are discontent, this law appeals to them as well as to the christen majority who hold much more power in terms of government than the Muslims( they don’t vote often) . hope this post was informative and not to complex or unreadable.

In other news, a report on NPR says that torture is being used on the detained men so they will confess other "gay" people. In addition, unfair/illegal police processes to entrap/arrest people.

Their is no doute about this happen in some areas(key word some ) especially the cities were traditional leader hold little power and corruption is rife. I have heard that some members of the police are trying to make a quick buck by imprisoning the enemies of powerful men or have cut a deal with human trafficers to send them to america for prostitution.

 Skinnereal wrote:
We're only a few years on from similar happening in 'civilised' countries.
Turing has only just been pardoned for being gay here in Britain, and we consider our laws and society to be fairly gay-friendly.

So, reports of anti-gay laws in other parts of the world are hardly surprising, and just shows how different societies are on certain things.
But as news and media gets around the world attitudes change, and in decades to come, there may not be any laws classed as 'anti-gay'.
Put that down alongside World Peace, though.

Until then, allow people to claim asylum for this kind of thing. Sitting back and watching is one thing, helping those who ask for it, it's a step towards 'doing something' about the problem of bigotry and closed-mindedness.

That's a good one right there, a government pardoning a man ,who played a large part in it's WW2 victory and computer advancement, it sentenced and subjected to castration for being gay, and in the end drove to suicide. I think most people in any country that has read about that case would think the most abject, groveling apology and act of contrition to his surviving family was more in order.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Medium of Death wrote:
Given the recent protests by various countries surrounding Russia and it's anti-gay policy, perhaps Nigeria should be barred from participation in the upcoming Commonwealth games.

 Frazzled wrote:
No, we just tried to establish a colony of former slaves. We didn't cut the hands off half the freaking population like Belgium did to the Congo.

I wonder if this is where the "inspiration" for this barbaric practice comes from in many African civil wars.

I don't think the west is the source for all evil, even though it did some nasty things in Africa. There was enough barbarity to go around long before we got there.

 Easy E wrote:

So you are saying this is a political move to focus the people's attention on a different threat instead of on how incompetent the government is? Man, I feel like their is a Godwin moment coming on.

In other news, a report on NPR says that torture is being used on the detained men so they will confess other "gay" people. In addition, unfair/illegal police processes to entrap/arrest people.

I don't think incompetent is the right word. Call me a cynic, but the government there is quite competent at what they do, which happens to be funnelling money from charities and oil and other natural resources into their own personal bank accounts.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
...that hasn't happened in this thread.


Not meaningful indeed.

If you'd care to read the thread, you would in fact find examples of what I had mentioned. In fact my comment echoes part of your conversation with easysauce. Instead you'd rather go for some pithy comment, and complain about something not being meaningful.

If you'd care to point out where you feel this happened, this would be a whole lot easier.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

So you are saying this is a political move to focus the people's attention on a different threat instead of on how incompetent the government is? Man, I feel like their is a Godwin moment coming on.

In other news, a report on NPR says that torture is being used on the detained men so they will confess other "gay" people. In addition, unfair/illegal police processes to entrap/arrest people.

I don't think incompetent is the right word. Call me a cynic, but the government there is quite competent at what they do, which happens to be funnelling money from charities and oil and other natural resources into their own personal bank accounts.

I will conceed the point and ask that the chairperson replace incompetent with corrupt in the official record.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you'd care to point out where you feel this happened, this would be a whole lot easier.

You mean you cannot find your exchanges with another member in a three page thread?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you'd care to point out where you feel this happened, this would be a whole lot easier.

You mean you cannot find your exchanges with another member in a three page thread?

I mean that I cannot find where in those exchanges that I blamed everything that's wrong in Africa on the West, because that never happened. If something doesn't exist it's rather hard to find.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you'd care to point out where you feel this happened, this would be a whole lot easier.

You mean you cannot find your exchanges with another member in a three page thread?

I mean that I cannot find where in those exchanges that I blamed everything that's wrong in Africa on the West, because that never happened. If something doesn't exist it's rather hard to find.

**retracted**

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you'd care to point out where you feel this happened, this would be a whole lot easier.

You mean you cannot find your exchanges with another member in a three page thread?

I mean that I cannot find where in those exchanges that I blamed everything that's wrong in Africa on the West, because that never happened. If something doesn't exist it's rather hard to find.

We seem to have a recurring issue wherein you have the uncanny ability to misinterpret what I say. So allow me to make the following clear; at no stage did I state, infer, or otherwise attempt to claim that you personally had attempted to blame everything that is wrong with Africa on the West.

Is that better?

So where is someone else doing it then? You keep refusing to point out where it's happened at all.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The entire world system of trade, and thus the traditional road to improvement of living standards and all the things that brings with it, is rigged in favour of us (developed countries)read the western countries . How do you suppose you'll get any civil rights improvements when we're still using African countries to our own benefit?

.

AW... that statement is where we get the idea that you are blaming developed/western countries for africas problem...
esp the part where you say they cant improve their situation, because of western/developed world's actions.

most people would say that statement is in fact blaming the west for their problems.

Against my better judgement I'm going to reply to you.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So where is someone else doing it then? You keep refusing to point out where it's happened at all.

I retract my prior statement. I direct you to the following;

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Most of these countries are so religiously radical because of missonaries preeching extremism to them.

Take that as food for thought.

 Alexzandvar wrote:
]So its Africans fault that Europe colonized the hell out them, drew borders and forced people together were they didn't want to, and destroyed what African countries could stand against them?

Ethopia for the longest time had a good military and was a prosperous nation, they even kicked out the Italians, but then they got crushed into submisssion.

Im not saying we have to help them, but jeeze at least own the fact that Western Civilzation did do some bad things.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
It's "not PC" because it's bonkers. The entire world system of trade, and thus the traditional road to improvement of living standards and all the things that brings with it, is rigged in favour of us (developed countries). How do you suppose you'll get any civil rights improvements when we're still using African countries to our own benefit?

So yes, people in this thread have blamed the West for the problems in Africa. I'll let you return to mis-interpreting my words and splitting hairs to make your point.

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Most of these countries are so religiously radical because of missonaries preeching extremism to them.

There's missionaries that aren't Western. As I said earlier in the thread, Saudi Arabia is exporting Wahabbism.

 Alexzandvar wrote:
]So its Africans fault that Europe colonized the hell out them, drew borders and forced people together were they didn't want to, and destroyed what African countries could stand against them?

Ethopia for the longest time had a good military and was a prosperous nation, they even kicked out the Italians, but then they got crushed into submisssion.

Im not saying we have to help them, but jeeze at least own the fact that Western Civilzation did do some bad things.

Still not blaming the West for everything that's wrong in Africa. It's almost as if everything means all of something, and not parts of it.

 easysauce wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The entire world system of trade, and thus the traditional road to improvement of living standards and all the things that brings with it, is rigged in favour of us (developed countries)read the western countries . How do you suppose you'll get any civil rights improvements when we're still using African countries to our own benefit?

.

AW... that statement is where we get the idea that you are blaming developed/western countries for africas problem...
esp the part where you say they cant improve their situation, because of western/developed world's actions.

most people would say that statement is in fact blaming the west for their problems.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Pointing out that the West still very much has a big influence on the development in Africa is not blaming the West for anything that goes wrong in Africa.

My whole involvement in the thread started because you [easy] went on a rant about how it's not "PC" to claim that it's no one's fault but Africans that Africa is in such a wretched state.

 easysauce wrote:

but really, there are REASONS why so much of the world is in poor shape, at some point, we have to blame africans for why africa is in such a state, ME'terns for why the ME is in such a state and so on... stop all foregin aid, stop all interventions, just completly leave it alone.

these places were messed up before colonialism, time to stop carrying the torch, its not anyones fault but their own, and all the efforts by the western nations to help just make it worse, or breed dependance, or just breed more hate at the interventionism or "westernization"

That is completely and utterly bonkers. It's completely ignoring the history of the continent and the current economic situation.

Pointing that out is not equivalent to blaming the West for everything. Part of what is going on in Africa is "our" fault (as nations, not personally), part of it isn't. Claiming that we're completely innocent is mad.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Pointing that out is not equivalent to blaming the West for everything. Part of what is going on in Africa is "our" fault (as nations, not personally), part of it isn't. Claiming that we're completely innocent is mad.

despite what you might want your words to mean, they mean what they mean, saying its "our" fault, partially or whatever, is still laying blame. And its still a huge cop out to say "well I only blame the west partially, so i never was really blaming them"

blaming the wes/developed nationst, even partially, for the state of africa because of colonialism, is in fact blaming the west, albeit "partially" as you would like it to be clarified as

given the large amount of time that has passed since the colonial era, it makes as much sense to "partially" blame the west for the current state of africa,

as it does to blame the current EU woes on nazi germany...

or to blame the USA situation on the civil war, or war for independence

or to blame the situation in spain on the african moors who devastated that country when they invaded (to the point where the original "spanish" genitics were almost raped out of existence)

 easysauce wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Pointing that out is not equivalent to blaming the West for everything. Part of what is going on in Africa is "our" fault (as nations, not personally), part of it isn't. Claiming that we're completely innocent is mad.

despite what you might want your words to mean, they mean what they mean, saying its "our" fault, partially or whatever, is still laying blame. And its still a huge cop out to say "well I only blame the west partially, so i never was really blaming them"

blaming the wes/developed nationst, even partially, for the state of africa because of colonialism, is in fact blaming the west, albeit "partially" as you would like it to be clarified as

given the large amount of time that has passed since the colonial era, it makes as much sense to "partially" blame the west for the current state of africa,

You'll note that I partially attributed Africa's current situation to the current (as in, present day) economic system. As such, it's not 60 or 600 years back in history, it's happening right now.

You'll also note that all I claimed was that I never blamed everything on the West, because that is the allegation I was defending myself against. I've never claimed that I've not blamed the West for problems in Africa, just that I've never said it's all "our" fault.

In contrast, you laid the entire blame on the Africans, absolving everyone else in the world from wrongdoing. Can you not see how that is insane?

yes, blaming africa 100% for a decision made 100% in africa, by africans,

is fair.

you think its the wests fault that this african country has made homosexuallity illegal eif even partially

 easysauce wrote:
yes, blaming africa 100% for a decision made 100% in africa, by africans,

is fair.

you think its the wests fault that this african country has made homosexuallity illegal eif even partially

I think it's partially so, yes. Laying 100% of the blame on Africans ignores the historical context completely, because it implies that they (Africans) can just change their culture overnight.

 easysauce wrote:
yes, blaming africa 100% for a decision made 100% in africa, by africans

A wise man once said, "Only Sith deal in absolutes".

If you think the various Oil, Mining, and other massive conglomerates operating in that area do not have a vested interest in keeping Africa economically and intellectually stunted then you would be wrong.

Man, some of the ethnocentrism in this thread is making me uncomfortable.

What we should do is nothing...

It is not our country.

If the folks that live there do not like the laws they can change them, or the government.

Someone wants to go interfere, get on an air plane, but leave our troops of it.

Democracy only works when decisions are made by the people living under it.

All Americans advocating Africans sort their own problems out do realise their own battle for independence would have been utterly crushed had the French said the same thing, right? Right?

 easysauce wrote:
as it does to blame the current EU woes on nazi germany...

The system which was brought down violently in a years-long war, and which had little to no relation to the economic troubles caused by a single currency system?

or to blame the USA situation on the civil war, or war for independence

In this case it does actually work to a degree; some of the present issues lie in different peoples' interpretations of the constitution, an element introduced many years ago, which has been carried forwards and remains a relevant topic despite the large time gap.

or to blame the situation in spain on the african moors who devastated that country when they invaded (to the point where the original "spanish" genitics were almost raped out of existence)

A situation which again, has largely been resolved over the intervening years.

The difference with many of the troubles in the Middle-East or Africa is that the western influence is still there, much like how the constitution is a relevant topic of discussion, as despite it being many years ago, the influence is still present in the form of borders (leading to tribal conflicts and wars), or in creating systems of government in areas that they may not be suited for, whiich remain in place over the years despite not working due to local issues) leading to corruption and other problems.

So yeah, not all of the issues in ME/Africa are the fault of "the west" but there are many that can be attributed, directly or indirectly, to the influence of western nations.

Also, does that Nazi Germany comment count as Godwinning the thread?