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Unless he meant .22

 agnosto wrote:
Unless he meant .22

Stop spoiling my fun!

not sure if mentioned earlier, but the leading thing i hear when i field my tau is, they win in the shooting war. they tend to out range most other armies, while being highly mobile. if they had to sit still, then its easier to assault them and exploit weakness. but with all the jumping around, move shoot move, plus long range, and its GOOD long range, plus ignoring cover, AND suppoted overwatch... well it makes it pretty tough to actually reach CC vrs tau.

i always say if you are going the CC route, do it 100% of your build, and find a way to get there fast and all at once. for example, as DE i would load up 9 raiders with 6x10 wychs and 3x10 something else for combat. (incubi, etc) round out with bikes, etc. then 1st turn is full out 24" move right in thier face. sure you will loose some, and sure, you wont be shooting that turn... but turn 2, you move again, unload, and charge en masse. - no idea if itll work... lol but thats sort of the **idea**

but really, people will always have a list or build they hate. right now its tau and riptides. smile, shake hands, move on, and leave the game at the game. winning with tau/riptide is fine... being a sore winner is not.

Polythemus wrote:
The problem your having here dude is that your having cognitive dissonance with regard to your own question and your phrasing of the question. If i may paraphrase your question its, 'why are other people having an emotional reaction to something. I am not having an emotional reaction to this thing, therefore it shouldn't threaten them.' this question and its phrashing presuposes that everyone should have a similar emotional response and to think in the same way as you, in spite of what their experiences might be. By including the clause about emotion in your query you were eliciting an emotional respose from people which is bound to lead to strong responses if not well reasoned ones.

You shouldn't paraphrase a question because you make it lose meaning and gain new ones.

I asked something more along the lines of...

1. I don't find this scary
2. This is why I don't find this scary.
With the conclusion that I may be an anomaly.

There's no suggestion that others shouldn't find it hard to beat because I don't. I am not saying a=b therefore c=b like you're suggesting I am (what your calling cognitive dissonance, a formal fallacy and quite a common argument.)

What I've said is more along the lines of A because of B, so why C?

I can see where you get the two confused - I asked "what's the fuss about", and that sounds like I think there should be no fuss because my army can deal with them. That's not what I was going for, and I think you picked up on that because of the lack of a verbal cue. (I.e; there are two ways I could've said it, I meant the one you didn't pick.)

A better paraphrase would be

I'm not afraid

Here's why

So why are you afraid

As opposed to

I'm not afraid

Here's why

I don't get what you're afraid of because of the above.

Both can come off the same way of speaking. I get what you're trying to say, but it's not dissonant, it just sounds wrong when you read it wrong.

This is going off topic but the subject line of this thread is "Why are people afraid of four riptides?"

Reading further into the thread, one my find that your intent here is actually what you state, "What's the fuss about?" but for the casual, surface reader the message is one of "I'm not afraid of 4 riptides because I'm so awesome so the rest of you must just suck if you're actually having trouble with them."

People don't take well to asinine comments. You didn't when they were directed at you so why should they accept you belittling them? You state that this is not your intent; however, it's obvious that the majority of people posting in this thread took it that way thus Polythemus' statement. One might say that it is not his or the other readers' inability to understand your point that has caused contention but your apparent lack of ability to make your point in a manner that didn't raise "hackles".

Just an opinion.

So, back on on topic; are you going to try yourself against more than one riptide on the table now that you've bested a mon-tide list?

Until OP plays against a balanced Triptide or O'vesa list, whether he is afraid or not means nothing.

Given that he's being allowed to cheat by the TO, his experience is always going to be of limited value.

Riptides effectively meant that Paladins and the like are now gibbable from across the board. As someone who either went with MAXIMUM SWARM or Monster Mash Tyranids depending on my mood I wasn't too bothered by Riptides for my tyranids, but they made all of my multiwound T4 and/or 2+ save infantry units functionally obsolete against most Tau builds.

The fact that they ignore cover, are jetpack units, soak up bullets, and shoot across the board makes them rather annoying if you don't gut their markerlight support. Honestly, the Tau codex as a whole is a rather soul sucking thing to play against.

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
It's like fighting a crocodile with a 22.

Crocodile are hunted with .22's. Almost exclusively in fact. .22 magnum, but still.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh oh, somebody should math hammer the survivability of 4 riptides vs a farsight bomb. I bet it's laughable.

Imnewherewheresthebathroom wrote:

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
It's like fighting a crocodile with a 22.

Crocodile are hunted with .22's. Almost exclusively in fact. .22 magnum, but still.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh oh, somebody should math hammer the survivability of 4 riptides vs a farsight bomb. I bet it's laughable.

Laughable for which side?

Okay let's run the math, I'm going to rule in favour of monster hunter working on mixed squads, and assume you aren't deep striking or infiltrating (riptides out of 30" fr turn 1) assuming 1 buff suit 3 missile 3 plasma shadowsun max drones and farsight.

Assuming bs5 no ignores cover
>24" 12 S7 shots everything else out of range 12*(35/36)*(8/9)*(1/6)*(2/3)
1.15 unsaved wound

18"-24" 1.15 from missile then 7*(35/36)*(3/4)*(1/3)*(2/3)= 1.13 wounds or 2.3 total

12"-18" is 2.3 then gun drones and shadowsun I'll assume drones are bs5 for consistency sake.
28*(35/36)*(5/9)*(1/6)*(2/3) = 1.68 shadowsun is 2*(35/36)*(35/36)*(1/3)*(2/3)= .42
Total is 4.4

12 4.4 plus another set of plasma or another 1.13 wounds so ~5.5.

That means that assuming all units are within range at bs5 and monster hunter works you can't even kill a single riptide in the oveastar without exceptional rolls, assuming you have to walk up the board that means you will have sustained losses making the numbers even worse. Whereas likely 3 riptides are rolling ID ignores cover large blasts every turn which are unlikely t scatter with that HUGE footprint.

Overall this just enforces my thoughts on farsight bomb being trash vs riptie spam, either you've never actually played one or you abused the rules are your opponent was a whole other league of "special"

Jakobokaj wrote:
Okay let's run the math, I'm going to rule in favour of monster hunter working on mixed squads, and assume you aren't deep striking or infiltrating (riptides out of 30" fr turn 1) assuming 1 buff suit 3 missile 3 plasma shadowsun max drones and farsight.

Assuming bs5 no ignores cover
>24" 12 S7 shots everything else out of range 12*(35/36)*(8/9)*(1/6)*(2/3)
1.15 unsaved wound

18"-24" 1.15 from missile then 7*(35/36)*(3/4)*(1/3)*(2/3)= 1.13 wounds or 2.3 total

12"-18" is 2.3 then gun drones and shadowsun I'll assume drones are bs5 for consistency sake.
28*(35/36)*(5/9)*(1/6)*(2/3) = 1.68 shadowsun is 2*(35/36)*(35/36)*(1/3)*(2/3)= .42
Total is 4.4

12 4.4 plus another set of plasma or another 1.13 wounds so ~5.5.

That means that assuming all units are within range at bs5 and monster hunter works you can't even kill a single riptide in the oveastar without exceptional rolls, assuming you have to walk up the board that means you will have sustained losses making the numbers even worse. Whereas likely 3 riptides are rolling ID ignores cover large blasts every turn which are unlikely t scatter with that HUGE footprint.

Overall this just enforces my thoughts on farsight bomb being trash vs riptie spam, either you've never actually played one or you abused the rules are your opponent was a whole other league of "special"

Agreed, but why is he walking and not deepstriking? What's the math if he deepstikes in? Then the following qaudtide turn?

 spacewolved wrote:

Agreed, but why is he walking and not deepstriking? What's the math if he deepstikes in? Then the following qaudtide turn?

He's not deep striking because he's infiltrating, iirc. Tournaments in his area rule that infiltrating IC's confer it to the units they join.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 spacewolved wrote:

Agreed, but why is he walking and not deepstriking? What's the math if he deepstikes in? Then the following qaudtide turn?

He's not deep striking because he's infiltrating, iirc. Tournaments in his area rule that infiltrating IC's confer it to the units they join.

That's how it normally works isn't it?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

That's how it normally works isn't it?

There's debates on it. Tournaments rule one way or another, FLGS groups decided among themselves. One of the things we hope to see in a BRB FAQ.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

That's how it normally works isn't it?

There's debates on it. Tournaments rule one way or another, FLGS groups decided among themselves. One of the things we hope to see in a BRB FAQ.

No there's debates on whether shadowsun can infiltrate a squad, but the second another IC joins it immediately becomes 100% RAW and RAI illegal as stated by the infiltrate rule saying that infiltrate cannot be conferred to an IC by the squad they are in meaning farsight disqualifies infiltrate.

On the point as to why you won't deeps strike if the opponent has 4 riptides three of saidnriptides will almost certainly pack EWO and ion accel, that means your large footprint squad will likely be hit by three large blasts ignoring armour with instant death and hitting lots because all models must be in B2B when deep striking.

This thread is a textbook example of GIFT theory.

AngularDeath wrote:
This thread is a textbook example of GIFT theory.

GIFT theory? Whats that?

Because I usually play Blood Angels...

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

AngularDeath wrote:
This thread is a textbook example of GIFT theory.

GIFT theory? Whats that?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIFT

greyknight12 wrote:you're also playing tau.

Yeah.

It would be like if Iran gets a nuclear weapon and everybody starts freaking out and the president of the United States goes on television and broadcasts to the world "Iran has nuclear weapons? Big deal, we've got thousands of them!"

Multiple Riptides is a Deathwing dream come true....but that's really the only army the Deathwing can deal with.

He says as he sits in the corner and cries himself to sleep

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Multiple Riptides is a Deathwing dream come true....but that's really the only army the Deathwing can deal with.

He says as he sits in the corner and cries himself to sleep

Really? I thought riptides were good against deathwing.

... yeah. Terminators deepstrike and are immediately hit by multiple Ap2 blast weapons with interceptor fire before they even get to blink. And then they get an absolutely absurd number of armor saves thrown at them by extra-BS S5-7 weapons. Assuming there aren't crisis suits, and you get plasma stormed first.

 Ailaros wrote:
... yeah. Terminators deepstrike and are immediately hit by multiple Ap2 blast weapons with interceptor fire before they even get to blink. And then they get an absolutely absurd number of armor saves thrown at them by extra-BS S5-7 weapons. Assuming there aren't crisis suits, and you get plasma stormed first.

Hell, even the sniper rounds from Kroot start being rather dangerous. I'm with Ailaros, I don't see that working very well at all.

 Barnie25 wrote:
How would 3 Wraithknights fair against 3 Riptides?

Quite Well surprisingly if you can maneuver them well enough. Distort is a bitch to deal with but funny as hell to watch things disappear

Just gotta deepstrike 4 GUO with the balesword all up around those riptides. Also 3 flying nurlge DPs with baleswords. One scratch and you have a dead riptide, wraithknight or dreadknight.