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I was chatting with a friend, and we came up with something that we'd both love to see happen with GW.

Imagine the following...

A starter box, specific to each army, containing the following...

1 Generic HQ
2 Small Troops Choices
1 Other Choice (Elite OR Fast Attack OR Heavy Support)
Small Rulebook
Small Mission Book containing full rules for the included units, a fully written out army list for the included units, example army list examples for "what to buy next", 1-3 new missions tied to the collection and a short story.

The models would be pushfit with fixed options for ease and rapidity of assembly... think Dark Vengeance style.

Here is an example (and I know this list sucks, it's just an example)

Mission Box - Catachan Psyker Escort
1 Primaris Psyker
2 10 man Catachan Vet Squads kitted out differently
1 Sentinel
Small Rulebook
Mission Book containing full rules (almost like a dataslate) for each of the units, a written army list, 3 mission relating to escorting the psyker and a short story talking about how a small group of Catachans has been tasked with escorting the Lord Commander's psyker advisor to a secret bunker. Mission 1 could be rescuing the psyker from the enemy, Mission 2 sees the enemy come in from reserves and attack you while you're en route, Mission 3 requires you to get your models to the bunker to win. Something like that

What do you think?

Would you buy this and for how much? I'm thinking it could be done for around 75 USD. Fewer, less poseable models than in a Battleforce, but with rules, unique missions and some fluff included.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot to say, effort would be made to make sure all starter boxes were the same or close points. Also, some effort made to balance. Nothing OP.

Does these have any miniatures re-sculpted [like in the 2 player sets]

Id guess GW would price these right at the cost of buying them seperately

In my mind, these kits would include pushfit models exactly like in the Dark Vengeance and Assauly on Black Reach sets. You would be able to assemble them without glue if you wanted to.

This would also be an entirely new product as it's not currently possible to purchase a small, soft bound rulebook without all the background and pictures of the other versions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm seeing this as a starting point for any new player or existing player starting a new army.

 Kriswall wrote:

Here is an example (and I know this list sucks, it's just an example)

Mission Box - Catachan Psyker Escort
1 Primaris Psyker
2 10 man Catachan Vet Squads kitted out differently
1 Sentinel
Small Rulebook
Mission Book containing full rules (almost like a dataslate) for each of the units, a written army list, 3 mission relating to escorting the psyker and a short story talking about how a small group of Catachans has been tasked with escorting the Lord Commander's psyker advisor to a secret bunker. Mission 1 could be rescuing the psyker from the enemy, Mission 2 sees the enemy come in from reserves and attack you while you're en route, Mission 3 requires you to get your models to the bunker to win. Something like that

What do you think?

Would you buy this and for how much? I'm thinking it could be done for around 75 USD.

The list GW price is $103 for models, so I'm saving money. I think instead of setting a fixed unit count, the box should hit a standard point total, say 750 points, This is vital so my friend and I can each buy a box and have equal points against each other to play with, requiring no additions. I also think they should all have the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops along with 1 heavy, 1 fast attack and 1 elite.

Price should be $100 or less.

Other than the fact that a psyker with Catachan escorts sounds really, REALLY odd fluff wise, I think a box like that would help out new players.

Pretty much what Privateer Press does?

I was thinking a rules-only codex for work.

I like the idea, but lean more towards Kriswall's suggestion of a points limit. The problem that often arises with bundles is the content that the customer receives; you have to tread a thin line between "useful addition" and "wasted duplicates".

For instance, in your example the warriors are not nearly enough for an army, but you also probably dont need too many psych-er/sentinels running around. so there is a disconnect in the usefulness of the bundle. People end up weighing the pieces they dont need/want vs the savings they are offered.

Perhaps a scaling bundle, with the first one being a typical "first 500" points army would be more useful. Obviously the content would vary between armies to arrive at 500

I envision a "first 500" more akin to:
-HQ
-Troop 1
-Troop 2
-Troop 3
-Transport
-Transport
-Mini rulebook.

IMO that is something that any player of any army could use to start a decent army, and then branch out any direction they fancied from there.

There would definitely have to be some thought and balance go into the starter armies. I'm picturing something like the starter armies that come in the Dark Vengeance set. They are full and legal armies. They're not supposed to be hyper competitive or take all comers... they're supposed to teach you how to play and be mostly balanced.

Maybe say 1 HQ, 2 Troops + 1 Other minumum, 400 points max. Work it into some sort of Border Patrol greater ruleset release so existing players have a reason to purchase also.

Well if you want to go with the IG example, a Command Squad, two infantry squads, and a heavy weapon team or chimera would make an excellent start to an army.

All of the models are useable, and are the bread and butter of the army. You would have a good start for either an infantry or a mechanized list, and you could buy several without anything in the box going to waste.

An equivalent for orks would be a box of nobs, 20 boyz, and perhaps a box of lootas, since they're designed to be made as burnas or lootas.

Barfolomew wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Here is an example (and I know this list sucks, it's just an example)

Mission Box - Catachan Psyker Escort
1 Primaris Psyker
2 10 man Catachan Vet Squads kitted out differently
1 Sentinel
Small Rulebook
Mission Book containing full rules (almost like a dataslate) for each of the units, a written army list, 3 mission relating to escorting the psyker and a short story talking about how a small group of Catachans has been tasked with escorting the Lord Commander's psyker advisor to a secret bunker. Mission 1 could be rescuing the psyker from the enemy, Mission 2 sees the enemy come in from reserves and attack you while you're en route, Mission 3 requires you to get your models to the bunker to win. Something like that

What do you think?

Would you buy this and for how much? I'm thinking it could be done for around 75 USD.

The list GW price is $103 for models, so I'm saving money. I think instead of setting a fixed unit count, the box should hit a standard point total, say 750 points, This is vital so my friend and I can each buy a box and have equal points against each other to play with, requiring no additions. I also think they should all have the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops along with 1 heavy, 1 fast attack and 1 elite.

Price should be $100 or less.

I would say something like this would be best. 750 points (1,000 for WHFB) so basically the minimum amount a new player would need to get started with entry level games; not sure about including the rules but definitely the codex (which should go back to the 3rd edition paperback style IMO). A balanced "starter army" for each faction that provides a solid, thematic core without being too gimmicky.

GW cost would probably be about $175. It should probably cost about $75 though.

I think they should make a $100 box with kill team rules rather than the full game. That way you don't run into problems of having too few units to be balanced.

I think, as an intro box, it should be not more than $60 regardless of what the contents are.

IMO the biggest problem with this idea is that a mission-focused starter box has very little replay value. You're only going to play the special missions if someone else starts the game at the same time and wants to join you, and those models may not be relevant when you start building a real army. A better idea would be GW releasing a Kill Team-style variant for 500 point games that limits things like flyers/MCs/AV 14 tanks/etc, along with starter boxes that give you a competitive army in that variant game right out of the box. That way you have a game variant that people besides your fellow newbies can play and, more importantly, would be interested in playing, and you aren't going to get slaughtered mercilessly when you run into a veteran player with a strong list.

The whole point of this exercise is to lower the cost of entry. If I want to start playing Tau and have no interest in picking up spare Dark Angel or Chaos Space Marine models, I'm looking at buying the Big Rule Book, Tau Codex, Dice Cube, Templates, Measuring Tape and Plastic Glue (thin) to assemble the models. Furthermore, let's say I buy a Battleforce to give me roughly the same number of models as are in the Dark Vengeance. As a Tau player, I get lucky because I can model one of the crisis suits as an HQ. Most Battleforces don't have that option.

I'm at 230.35 USD.

That's too high for what is essentially a starter package. New players don't necessarily care about hard back rulebooks with tons of extra pics, or having fancier looking templates. If you included fewer models, basic but complete rules and codex entries for the included models, you could lower the cost dramatically. Anything over $75 is too high, and the starter box cost should really be closer to $60-65.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, no arguments of "you can get certain items cheaper off ebay or 3rd party". I'm looking at GW's Suggested Manufacturer's Retail Cost.

I would say for a straight "out of the box" playable army (including HQ, troops, extras) no more than $175. That's what Mantic sells their army boxes for and is pretty reasonable IMO for what you get in it; throw in the codex for free (assuming a return to cheaper paperback codexes) and make an inexpensive paperback "Rules on the Go" type of book as the primary rulebook (and then you could sell the big hardcover book with pretty pictures as a collector's edition or something) and you're looking at let's say just under $200. Not dirt cheap, but reasonable enough that it gives you a fully playable army at the entry-level points value (so assuming 750 for 40k and 1,000 for WHFB) with a good range of units to form the core.

The battleforces and the like should be heavily discounted as a way to bulk up an existing force versus something a new player would pick up, because battleforces don't give you a full army. They are great for "I need more troops and a tank" situations, but not so much for "I want to start a Necron army". I'd say something like 40% discounted on the models bought separately, as a deal for buying in bulk. Maybe different types of battleforces to have "themed" armies e.g. maybe one battleforce has more mobile components as an "assault force" or one has more tanks as a "support detachment" as well as the basic choice which is more balanced. They should be discounted.

These could even be offered only via GW Mail Order as an incentive, with stores being able to stock the models individually but not the box.

As it stands though the issue with a battleforce is it's not enough; I can go out and buy let's say a Chaos Battleforce and I'll still need to spend another $100+ just to have an actual army that I can use for a game. They need to lower the initial barrier to entry for real games, not demo games or "new player games" that don't follow the FOC, but actual legal armies at the entry-level points values.

Basically I should be able to start a new army and get everything I need to have a beginner-level force that I can expand on for under $200, and preferably closer to about $150 or under, and include the codex with it versus an additional $50.

IF the boxes were balanced between factions, points/power wise

IF there was a small saving on buying them separately

Then sure, its a wicked idea and Id definitely consider them when starting a new army.

barnowl wrote:
Pretty much what Privateer Press does?

Kind of, but you need to buy the Rulebook after you get a feel of the rules from the Quickstart and add on to that. Also, I would like to add that the Battle boxes also come with a Warcaster/lock with Jacks/beast and their cards, but no units.

 Peregrine wrote:
IMO the biggest problem with this idea is that a mission-focused starter box has very little replay value. You're only going to play the special missions if someone else starts the game at the same time and wants to join you, and those models may not be relevant when you start building a real army. A better idea would be GW releasing a Kill Team-style variant for 500 point games that limits things like flyers/MCs/AV 14 tanks/etc, along with starter boxes that give you a competitive army in that variant game right out of the box. That way you have a game variant that people besides your fellow newbies can play and, more importantly, would be interested in playing, and you aren't going to get slaughtered mercilessly when you run into a veteran player with a strong list.

What if each faction had its own mission? This way, you could get together with your SM army, and your buddy has an Eldar army. That could be up to 6 "missions" and then each additional faction could provide additional 1-3 missions, with unique objectives that are not dependent on the opponent (so Nids are trying to wipe everything to create more biomass, the SMs are to take and hold an objective of some sort, Guard making a supply run, etc.)

Can I make a suggestion?

Personally I would have:

A 1000pt army of snap-fit plastics.
One codex containing only the army list.
The mini-rulebook.
a set of dice and templates.
a paint set containing base and shade colours for you army.

with this set you've everything needed to play sizable games with good-looking miniatures and nothing else unneeded.

A basic, standard mission legal army of a set point limit. That way two friends can pick up a box each and get into the game easily. The figures could just be simple snap fit and mainly mono pose.

The rules and the codex should be included. Nothing fancy, just the basic text of the rules. The same way that Corvus Belli does - the free rules have just the rules. No fluff, no art work. The rule book you buy has that.

Don't forget a simple section of scenery.
The AT43 box I got for the zombie (merks) force had:
Boss model
Specialist model,
2-3 troops squads,
2 tanks (light and heavy),
Cargo container scenery,
Small rulebook,
'Codex', full sized.
dice.
All that cost ~£60.

So, if GW can throw together:
Boss,
2-3 squads,
maybe a specialist,
small rules *
small codex for the enclosed models,
dice,
scenery (1-2 bits).
Sell it at £60, and they're on to a winner. So are we, as there's no way you'd get that much GW into a box for that price.

* If the rules are cut-down, and a lot of the complicated bits cut out, it'd help massively.
For 40k, cut most things like barrage, rending, psykers, challenges, etc. As long as the models in the boxes are fairly simple, people would play '40k basic'. They would move onto 'proper' 40k later, once they have the hang of the majority of the rules.

Just like the OP said, really

It might be nice to see the equivalent of the “Ravening Hordes” or back or the 3rd ed rulebook lists. Not full codexes, but enough to get you on the table. I’d rather see a "getting started" box, with that, plus all the non-mini stuff from the starter box (dice, templates, small rulebook) at a reasonable price like $20 or $25. It’s not like giving out stripped out codexes is going to cannablize real book sales. Anyone who remembers 3rd ed will recall the massive power jump armies got once they received a real codex.

As much as I like the concept of balanced, set point armies in a pick your army format, different armies just don’t build like that. There is no way you can get a horde army and an elite army at the same game-point and price-point simultaneously. That’s not even considering balance in play.