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Snipers and pilots. Why? First you can have rivalry between two enemies that can go on for the entire story without them ever being face to face. Second it allows the characters to be important yet human, the problem with lowly guardsmen is they don't know why their there besides the lies they've been told, and leaders like Cain or Talos are often larger than life. With snipers and pilots you can have individuals who in a way are just lone soldiers but at the same time are of critical importance, they also can have human reasons for fighting like wanting the survival of their families as opposed to vindictive superhuman who are mad about something that happened ten thousand years ago.

Any thoughts?

Isn't that pretty much what Marbo is for the Guard?

The idea is ok, I like the talented 'little guy' but when the universe is populated by supermen in armor, giant horrible gribblies from beyond, diabolical creatures of the ether and self aware robots that just want everyone to stop tomb robbing a pilot and a sniper would need to be larger than life to not lose their sanity.

The idea is ok, I like the talented 'little guy' but when the universe is populated by supermen in armor, giant horrible gribblies from beyond, diabolical creatures of the ether and self aware robots that just want everyone to stop tomb robbing a pilot and a sniper would need to be larger than life to not lose their sanity.

The Imperium has assassins that killed Curze and tried to kill Horus. I'm sure Chaos has the equivalent.

You are very right, but the Assassins are a very different breed from normal snipers or pilots. They are on par with Space Marine's with their training, indoctrination and gear, maybe even ahead. At least so far removed from a lowly Guardsman as possible.

Or did I misread your original post and you don't mind that, just wanting two adversaries that can go at it cloak and dagger?

My post is an uncompleted thought, maybe it could be a normal person but somehow is transformed through training or exposure to chaos.

They already have those characters in 40k, IG Marbo among many others and the Ork Jet Ace.

I'm pretty sure Marbo fits your idea to a tee. Or Knight Commander Pask. But the new Imperial Guard codex should be coming soon, so maybe there will be a sniper or pilot there. The Eldar have a sniper special character, so it's not completely out of the question

Pask and Longstrike are probably the most accurate comparisons to what you're talking about.

Marbo's a huge badass but he's not really a sniper.

This is 40k background, not WW2 background. We know you love Russia, that's great, let it rest. Responding to his posts also just derails.

 Kain wrote:

And there is an Ork pilot who is more or less an orky red baron methinks.

Would you be referring to me? I'z DA KRIMSON BARUN.Who's dis red git?

Don't forget the Eldar codex. They have a named sniper HQ (Illic Nightspear who is also pretty fun to run on the table for the record) and you can more or less create your own utilizing the Uldanorethi Longrifle artefact.

They can also sort of make a flyer "character" in that they can upgrade a Crimson Hunter to be an Exarch, which in every other aspect functions as the character unit in the squad.

You can already do that with your own characters for the most part in games within your local community. Maybe you're a Space Marine player and you have that one Storm Talon that survives every game intact and ALWAYS kills your friends Valkyrie. There you have a rivalry, make it more official by giving the storm talon and/or its pilot a cool name and a special color scheme, maybe some kill markings... done.

black library did some storys about duels between the guard and chaos troops the main one I remember is double eagle
about pilots

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/Double-Eagle-Print-on-Demand.html

 dekinrie wrote:
black library did some storys about duels between the guard and chaos troops the main one I remember is double eagle
about pilots

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/Double-Eagle-Print-on-Demand.html

Double Eagle is a fine book and has a nice tie in with the Gaunts Ghost series. Apparently Dan is working on a sequel to it.....when he isn't doing Horus stuff.

Telion is a sniper.

Larkin and Cuu. I know Cuu wasn't a sniper and was 'technically' on the same side as Larkin. But their vendetta went far beyond rivalry. More of a rouge vs ranger fantasy rivalry.

How about taking this to another thread Kain, this is 40k background. Get back on topic.

Poly Ranger wrote:
More of a rouge vs ranger fantasy rivalry.

Is that a rivalry against the color or the type of makeup?

Haha ooops.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
Snipers and pilots. Why? First you can have rivalry between two enemies that can go on for the entire story without them ever being face to face. Second it allows the characters to be important yet human, the problem with lowly guardsmen is they don't know why their there besides the lies they've been told, and leaders like Cain or Talos are often larger than life. With snipers and pilots you can have individuals who in a way are just lone soldiers but at the same time are of critical importance, they also can have human reasons for fighting like wanting the survival of their families as opposed to vindictive superhuman who are mad about something that happened ten thousand years ago.

Any thoughts?

How did a topic about the above lead to "patriotic" arguments about a Hollywood movie? How about rather than blow steam off about perceived historical inaccuracies in big budget movies you contribute to the OP question? Sorry to sound like a MOD (I know they are out there, but I am far from one of them).

There's a literal Red Baron character, fyi. Albeit he's an Ork

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Da_Krimson_Barun

The thread has a topic.

Please stick to it.

The Mod is right, let's get back to topic.
It would indeed be nice to have some more special characters.
Special characters are fun. And for my Elysian force I would love to have a nice pilot character.
And the Krimson Barun must get special rules. He is amazing and there are way too few Ork special characters anyways.
And rivalries are nice. I love the story about Yarrick and Thraka.

How did a topic about the above lead to "patriotic" arguments about a Hollywood movie? How about rather than blow steam off about perceived historical inaccuracies in big budget movies you contribute to the OP question? Sorry to sound like a MOD (I know they are out there, but I am far from one of them).

I think its a good movie and more realistic than most Hollywood movies, Rambos not blowing up helicopters with a bow and arrow. Did'nt mean to put anyone's country up or down. Should I make positive or negative remarks about snipers from other countries to balance things out?

We know you love Russia, that's great, let it rest. Responding to his posts also just derails

Is this post intended for me or someone else?

Rules-wise there's the Ace Pilot rules in Crusade of Fire, though I don't think trying to have Pask-style Special Character Ace Pilots would be too far-fetched. Some armies do have sniper characters, but most Warhammer battles are a little too brutal, close-quarters, and mobile for an Enemy at the Gates-style old-fashioned sniper duel; part of the problem is that snipers in 40k are part of squads of 5-10 guys unless they're absurdly scary (Illic, Vindicare Assassins). If you wanted to set up a sniper duel of that sort you'd need snipers to move from big squads to individuals (say take 1-3 as an Elites choice, they operate independently) and their weapons would have to be a little scarier (not quite the craziness of an Exitus rifle or Illic's gun, but nastier than a standard sniper rifle).

The book "Vulkan Lives" has a couple of snipers that duel throughout the book. One is a Word Bearer and the other an Iron Hand. I recommend giving it a read

This thread makes a lot less sense with several of the posts mod-hammered.

The rules in Crusade of Fire are atrocious, but they could be a good starting point for homebrewing some of your own 'ace pilot' rules. Personally, I love the idea of what you're aiming at here - heroes and villains, eternal rivals who never meet. It's almost romantic.

I would like there to be a Loyalist Guardsman vs Traitor Guardsman style story. Could replace the fact that everything is twice your size and trying to kill you and engages fighting on a personal scale.

I don't really think the above line made sense but I'm tired and cant be stuffed changing.