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5. High volume of flyers
4. Ignores cover
3. 2++ Re-rollable saves
2. D Weapons
1. [MOD EDIT - Please don't try to 'workaround' the expletive filter - thanks! - Alpharius] who forgot the first rule

I got one: Rule lawyers who are always wrong. If your right that's one thing, if you wrong .

The IGOUGO system.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I got one: Rule lawyers who are always wrong. If your right that's one thing, if you wrong .

I hate this one.

Its always one guy and usually involves miss remembering a rule from a previous edition.

Mass fliers i have no issue with, or ignore Cover
2++ can be dealt with if you see it coming.
But nothing Ruins the game more than 50% of your gaming going back and forth through 2-30 codexs to figure one thing out. And no i will not roll a 4+ because i know im correct.

Allies shenanigans.

Not anything in particular, but all the small things in the course of a game that adds up to my games being twice as long as they were in 5th.

The IGOUGO system has always been a part of 40k so you can't really say it's a problem with 6th Ed.

tremere47 wrote:
The IGOUGO system has always been a part of 40k so you can't really say it's a problem with 6th Ed.

Doesn't mean it doesn't take the fun out of the edition.

Its just even more apparent with the increase of bloat and messy rules slowing down the turns more.

5. High volume of flyers
4. Ignores cover
3. 2++ Re-rollable saves
2. D Weapons
1. People who forgot the first rule

My list would be composed of one thing and would say:

"lists like the one I just quoted"

I (as well as my group) enjoy all of those things.

But nothing Ruins the game more than 50% of your gaming going back and forth through 2-30 codexs to figure one thing out.

Agreed. It's starting to get back to the 2nd ed days when you had your rule book, your codex, whatever supplements you needed (Dark Millenium etc), plus the 5 or 6 White Dwarf "supplements" to every game. I would personally enjoy a slightly more streamlined experience.

The IGOUGO system.

Yeah, it's an inherent limitation in the 40k rules. Nothing drove that point home more for me than all the fun I had playing MGP's Starship Troopers game. Man that was a blast!

Why not keep a Quick Reference Sheet for any Codex-specific rules that come with the army you're fielding, so you don't have to keep flipping through books?
You could even laminate it, and have one each for your various lists.


Just an idea.

 Psienesis wrote:
Why not keep a Quick Reference Sheet for any Codex-specific rules that come with the army you're fielding, so you don't have to keep flipping through books?
You could even laminate it, and have one each for your various lists.


Just an idea.

Not what i meant. stats are fine but half the arguments come from things like rules interactions such as Searchlights and night fighting "benefits", PE with blast templates and rerolls.
basically Look at YMDC

- The sheer amount of tables in this edition. Seriously, you have terrain effect tables, vehicle damage tables (which admittedly are much simpler than the previous editions), warlord tables, mission tables and of course, psychic power tables. And then there are the codices...

- First Blood.

- Wound allocation nonsense.

- Ignore Cover, ignore cover everywhere.

- Allies. Call me a traditionalist, but I prefer the days when Tau was Tau and Eldar was Eldar and inquisitors really hated Aliens. None of this Taudar and Coteaz BFF nonsense.

Why not keep a Quick Reference Sheet for any Codex-specific rules that come with the army you're fielding, so you don't have to keep flipping through books?
You could even laminate it, and have one each for your various lists.


Just an idea.


Not what i meant. stats are fine but half the arguments come from things like rules interactions such as Searchlights and night fighting "benefits", PE with blast templates and rerolls.

This is more what I was getting at. Most of the "regulars" do have quick ref. sheets, but you it becomes difficult when you're constantly needing to expand that sheet and on top of that, there are more and more odd or unexpected interactions that require looking up. Plus, the reference sheet can be tough if you like to play different lists on a regular basis.

5.) Re-rolls in general (this is the re-roll edition, lets roll lots of dice, pick them up and roll them again, this includes 2++ saves, but also prescience on tons of things, twin linking all over the place etc.)

4.)TLOS (while not 6th Ed specific this is an annoying, and often argued part of the game, that adds nothing to the game in general.)

3.) Randomness in the game...random events that are beyond the control of players having a large impact on the game are bad (warp storm table, new synapse, Instability rules, random charge range to an extent.)

2.) Ignores Cover- this rule when easily accessable is far too powerful and negates the inherent benefit of many units. Having specific units with it is not too bad...having whole armies with access is bad. The same was true for DE poinsoned shooting.

1.) Volume of fire - the game is not all that fun when armies can put out 80 to 100 wounds per turn...picking up models with no response is boring.

Pay to win crap

1 - battle brothers. Allies itself isn't bad. Sharing abilities is.
2 - random charge distances.
3 - battle brothers. Yep so bad it's two of my top three.
4 - no way to stop psychic buffs (save rune priests)
5 - battle formations that don't take foc space.

1) Assault rules in general. It ruins the tension of having beefy assault units close the gap when its possible for me to have a free round of shooting in the opponents assault phase. Overwatch is fine but assault distances need to be fixes. Units should be able to assault out of deep strike though maybe at a reduced distance.

2) Raaaandomn taaaaaables. Or random rules in general. They slow down the game so much. Just price whatever benefit you can get and let players agree on what rules the terrain will follow. Night fighting is dumb because it also slows down the game.

3) Ignores Cover. It dumbs down the game to be a shooty uppy fest and it screws over foot armies. At least make people pay out of the bottom for it.

4) Monstrous creatures everywhere. If you think the walker rules are too weak to peddle your latest big dumb kit then buff up the walker rules. At least control the amount armies can take besides nids.

5) AP 3, AP 3 everywhere. In general too many weapons negate any sort of armor save. Rending on Eldar troops is just a kick in the nads towards marine players. And those poor 4+ save troops...

Sorry guys i am fairly new here, What units have a 2++ rerollable save? and what does IGOUGO mean?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The main rule that bugs me is that you should get a cover save and an armour save or a negative BS effect for cover. Also the weapon strength of some weapons doesn't seem fair, rather than having so much str 8,9 or 10 out there weapons should have more shots.

1- Allies
2- Rerollable 3++ or better invulnerable saves
3- Strength D
4- Ignores Cover, the new band aid of this edition (like Rending last edition)
5- Including a challenge mechanic without implementing overkill

madd_leeroy wrote:
Sorry guys i am fairly new here, What units have a 2++ rerollable save? and what does IGOUGO mean?

Screamers plus Heralds with a certain wargear item grant it a boost to its unvuln save (from 4++ to 2++) and the nature of Tzeentch daemons allows them re-roll ones, meaning they're effectively re-rollable 2++'s. Eldar can do very similar with Dark Eldar and some bikes with farseers and whatnot.

IGOUGO is exactly what it sounds like. I go, then you go. I go, you go. Its a turn system where each player does their entire turn, then the other player does their entire turn and so on. As opposed to, say, alternating activations, like the entirety of the Spartan Games line.

When ther FAQed the Wound alication. I was fine with it before, it was quick and simple.

IGOUGO, yeah it has been around since the beginning, but it should definitely be re-thought.

I think that Warzone was squad by squad if I recall correctly, but I haven't played that in 15 years.

Anyone ever play Battle Masters? Now that turn system was a blast. There was a huge deck of cards with units on them, that's how you determined who went. You could have ten or twelve units go in a row and then not have an action for the same, so it looked like you were winning and then your opponent really beat up on you. Intense game.


I'm having a hard time getting into 6th. I like overwatch being back again and snapshots. I always hated the heavy weapon guy not being able to fire at all if one guy moved.

I am pretty wary about fliers... flyers? waited forever for them and they seem broken. IDK. I just like to play to have fun and every time I pick up the new rulebook it just seems like a chore. Soooooooo Maaaaaaaaany Ruuuuuuuules.

1) too many rules
2) Night fighting (it's just stupid)
3)IGOUGO
4) Fliers
5) I've hated wound allocation for a long time, it's just silly and easily abusable. Just let the owning player take whoever they want when wounded. Streamlines the game.

Data-slates

 Psienesis wrote:
Why not keep a Quick Reference Sheet for any Codex-specific rules that come with the army you're fielding, so you don't have to keep flipping through books?
You could even laminate it, and have one each for your various lists.


Just an idea.

GW ought to organise rulebooks properly in the first place. Why should players pay £30 for a book that requires them to rewrite and rebind it for it to make sense?

Too many damned rules, with ever more being added and all of them with daft names.

Lots of rules is fine for skirmishy 12-13 models per side, but the average army fills a deployment zone no problem nowadays!

If only that Inquisition game had come to pass........

Allies, the USR system, and the power of shooting.

 Thokt wrote:
...the power of shooting.

I never quite got this. It's a futuristic game, of course guns are going to be powerful.

 Thokt wrote:
Allies, the USR system, and the power of shooting.

USRs...why if I may ask?

1: Endless whining.
2: Still no plastic Sisters models.
3-5: Variants of one and two.

5. The massive amount of little rules to remember that have little to no effect but you still have to remember them (like soul blaze)

4. Overwatch/random charge distances, pick one or the other, but both is OTT for assault reliant armies that are rather squishy (orks boyz, nid griblies, deldar wyches)

3. Wound allocation, this doesnt really affect my armies as much as others since I play crons who have almost 0 special weapons in their units, and FMC daemons so charge distance isnt really affected much from the "remove from the front" thing but it tends to ruin some of the fun when I play against assault armies when I kill enough to make the ground they are gaining a moot point since they will either be too weak by the time they get to me or they wont even get to me at all whether it be from kiting, forcing them to lose ground from casualties or a combo of both. Also it can render some units useless if you just get a lucky precision shot or can somehow snipe out the special weapons in a unit (like marines or guard).

2. Snapshots/fliers, the huge amount of debates that have popped up because of these new rules have led to 25 page long threads regarding the simplest of things (like imotekhs lightning hitting fliers)

1. The fact that some of the new rules purely dont work and can break the game (like for example if I put the relic in a NS what happens? There was I think a huge 25 page thread about this that ended with no solution since it just breaks the game since it forces the relic into reserves but it does not say what happens when the relic goes into reserves. Or the vengance batteries with battlecannons being forced to shoot at fliers even though they cannot shoot at fliers or if they have to shoot into a CC even though they cant shoot into CC)