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Starting with the least obvious and working downward from there:
Lizardmen = Tyranids
Dwarves = Demiurg
Undead = Necrons
Brettonians = Space Marines
Scaven = Hrud
Elves = Eldar
Dark Elves = Dark Eldar
Empire = Imperial Guard
Orcs = Orks
Chaos = Chaos


The only species that doesn't fit the theory: Tau. They belong in a manga, not on a WH 40k battlefield!

And it falls apart on the very first one.

You don't know Tyranids, or you don't know Lizardmen.

Although to be fair, 40K did start out as basically just Warhammer Fantasy in space.

Not all races have an analogue in both games though. Tyranids and Lizardmen are nothing alike (and the Slann already exist by themselves int he 40K background) and GW stated a while back that the Hrud were not ratment as everyone previously thought.

This was originally true. However over the years the fluff and races have diverged considerably. Some of the best examples are eldar and orks. High elves are definitely good guys in fantasy but in the 40K universe they are responsible for some of the worst things to happen to the empire since the heresy. Orks (and goblins) in fantasy are very tech underdeveloped and cannot engineer anything worthwhile. Orks in 40K are probably the best engineers in the galaxy and can take a rubber band and two sticks and give you back a deathray. Nobody know how they do it and even the races who are said to be the most advanced are often left scratching their heads.

Nids also don't translate well to lizardmen as it is literally comparing insects and lizards, biology, intelligence level, culture, battle methodology, etc. they are nothing alike.

BTW the dwarves were removed from 40K, they used to be the squats. You also missed the wood elves = exodites

If you look at the older 40k artwork you see some serious connections to fantasy. Rather miss that style, far prefer it to what they have now

 ansacs wrote:
Nids also don't translate well to lizardmen as it is literally comparing insects and lizards, ...

Tyranids aren't insects. The original design brief for them was 'Dinosaurs in SPACE!'

ummmm no

Lizardmen where servants of Old ones like eldar where in the 40k fluff. While the high elves did have some interaction with the old ones (very little, more hinted at than stated) So the parallel doesn't work. besides the Nids aren't lizards they are more like bugs which is a different animal phylum all together. Also fuffy wise the lizardmen are attempting to enact their interpretations of the Old One's plans while the tyranids just consume.

Dwarves where the squats which where an abhuman race that was slowly written out of 40k. The Demiurg are considerably more friendly then the dwarfs of 40k and their appearance is not well established, so chances are they are not similar to dwarfs from fantasy. Also they are not playable in the 40k game, but do appear in BFG

While it is fan belief (in some cases was) the Hrud are the parallel to skaven, GW have never stated that and probably never will. They are also not a playable race for the 40k game so you really can't compare them as the lack the overall fluff of the skaven and could have been taken in a very different direction.

Necrons are not undead, thou they are called that from time to time. That gave up human identity and physical form to fight the Old ones along the C'Tan and are neither alive or dead. The closest you get to undead in 40k are the plague zombies of nurgle. Honestly the whole undead thing for the necrons really didn't happen until their 5th ed rewrite. Before that they where just soulless machines with advanced tech.

you may have a point with the empire and guard, but in any setting a human is more or less human since they are suppose to be the army "you relate too" and be the over all underdogs of the setting. So saying they are the same isn't really fair. The spaces marines don't really match up well with the brettonians, since very few chapters are above the underhanded tactics brettonians abhorrer, one of their main weapons is a gun, something a brettonian noble would never touch, and some chapters are more or less murders that will wipe a planet clean of life if ordered to. You also forgot the SoB and inquisition. Which make the IOM a much more varied entity then the empire of fantasy.

As for orks and chaos they are very similar, so you have me there, but you have forgotten multiple races of the 40k universe such as the vespids, kroot, C'tan, and other that where wiped out during the crusade. there are many races in the 40k universe. Probably way more then in the World of fantasy. So while some of the armies may share similar artist influences the fluff behind them create very different things making they unique from one another. So no 40k is not fantasy in space.

I'd heard elsewhere of a parelell between Tyranids/Ogres, which might be closer

Tyranno wrote:
I'd heard elsewhere of a parelell between Tyranids/Ogres, which might be closer

Eat everything!

Wasn't there a point in the fluff (a LONG time ago) where WHFB was actually a planet in the 40 universe? Or did I make that up in my mind?

 ThatEdGuy wrote:
Wasn't there a point in the fluff (a LONG time ago) where WHFB was actually a planet in the 40 universe? Or did I make that up in my mind?

I recall that being a rumor in the old days. Didn't some old edition of WHFB let Chaos basically field a Chaos Marine equivalent? Also the old Albion campaign joked about it as IIRC one of the rewards for it was essentially a 40k power fist as a magic item.

Still that hasn't been the case for many many years.

 ThatEdGuy wrote:
Wasn't there a point in the fluff (a LONG time ago) where WHFB was actually a planet in the 40 universe? Or did I make that up in my mind?

There were hints that fantasy was a planet lost in the warp and that Sigmar was a lost Primarch, then there were apparently hints that the entire 40k universe sat in a bottle on a shelf in the mage's college or something in the Empire, then I'm told there was power armour and chain blades in a fantasy campaign at one point.

That has all since been retconned out. Hard.


Also if you look waaaaaaay back orks were simply called space orcs and eldar were space elves, etc.

 jonolikespie wrote:
That has all since been retconned out. Hard.

In fact, I recall a BL author mentioning that the two settings are now considered strictly separate by GW.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 ThatEdGuy wrote:
Wasn't there a point in the fluff (a LONG time ago) where WHFB was actually a planet in the 40 universe? Or did I make that up in my mind?

There were hints that fantasy was a planet lost in the warp and that Sigmar was a lost Primarch, then there were apparently hints that the entire 40k universe sat in a bottle on a shelf in the mage's college or something in the Empire, then I'm told there was power armour and chain blades in a fantasy campaign at one point.

That has all since been retconned out. Hard.

My FLGS owner told me about a Warhammer RPG session he had a long time ago using a pre-made adventure. IIRC, it ended with them entering these very strange "ruins" that were all metal in search of something, and when they did, 2 enormous men clad in a blue armor, shooting strange weapons would show up and they had to run because there was no way for them to fight them and survive.

So yeah, a crashed ship, 2 surviving space marines. He also said that all these cool "links" have been retconned with extreme prejudice, like jonolikespie said

Necrons are not undead, thou they are called that from time to time. That gave up human identity and physical form to fight the Old ones along the C'Tan and are neither alive or dead. The closest you get to undead in 40k are the plague zombies of nurgle. Honestly the whole undead thing for the necrons really didn't happen until their 5th ed rewrite. Before that they where just soulless machines with advanced tech.

If you can't see how Necrons would be considered as "space undead" or better yet, "tomb kings in space", I just don't know what to say.

They don't have to be identical, just clearly inspired by one another. The same way you may say Space Marines are similar to Knights

 ThatEdGuy wrote:
Wasn't there a point in the fluff (a LONG time ago) where WHFB was actually a planet in the 40 universe? Or did I make that up in my mind?

I'm pretty sure it got brought up in Realm of Chaos.
Where fantasy models could get 40k weapons, and similar.

Actually, I own both a Lizardmen AND a Tyranid army, though the 'Nids are rather new...and I meant stylistically. There is a "dinosaur" element to the nids, even my father looked at my 'nids, and thought "dinosaur models?".

 Madness! wrote:
Actually, I own both a Lizardmen AND a Tyranid army, though the 'Nids are rather new...and I meant stylistically. There is a "dinosaur" element to the nids, even my father looked at my 'nids, and thought "dinosaur models?".

Aesthetically, dinos I can see...but that's what you get when you turn a bug oriented race into massive creatures and applying human attributes to them in the process.

The more for guns and swords, very human ideas, to be applied to bugs to fit a game mechanic, the less bug-y they become.

Look at lictors...it's pretty much a man with some giant spiky arms.

All in all, bugs aren't any one kind of parallel, they are bugs...they redesign themselves to be as efficient as possible...whether that be in bug/dino/human/or turtle like capacities...thats what they do.

SaintofDaemons wrote:
ummmm no


Necrons are not undead, thou they are called that from time to time. That gave up human identity and physical form to fight the Old ones along the C'Tan and are neither alive or dead. The closest you get to undead in 40k are the plague zombies of nurgle. Honestly the whole undead thing for the necrons really didn't happen until their 5th ed rewrite. Before that they where just soulless machines with advanced tech.

They are called "Necron," as in "Necro" as in the greek word for dead. They also have a tendency to raise themselves from destruction (a la necromancy) and there's a lot of charnel egyptian imagery. For example, the necron symbol is just a modified version of the Ankh, the Egyptian symbol for Eternal Life. In fantasy lore, Necromancers usually do what they do because they seek immortality, often using their dark magics to preserve themselves beyond what is natural. Much like how the necrons use their tech.

It didn't just start with the 5th ed dex. The 3rd codex was pretty clear that they were undead in space; all that Egyptian and morbid imagery was pre-Ward, despite what the internet would tell you.

my thinking is that the fantasy world is just warhammer -25,000Bc... same "world/universe" just different timeline...

game play wise, they are hugly different, and the armies are not as "copy paste" on any level other then on the surface where you go "elves in fantasy, and elves in 40k" which falls apart comparings lizardmen, necrons, ect ect.

 Madness! wrote:
Starting with the least obvious and working downward from there:
Lizardmen = Tyranids This really only worked arguably for the original conception of Tyranids. Sense then, they have long diverged
Dwarves = Demiurg better example is Squats that were then destroyed
Undead = Necrons
Brettonians = Space Marines Not the best example in my personal opinion. Original conception of SM was far darker althiough now they are much more knights in space. Not a perfect comparison though
Scaven = Hrud If memory serves me this used to be true but Hrud have long sense diverged. Scaven are probably more like some mutant race of humans in fluff maybe?
Elves = Eldar
Dark Elves = Dark Eldar
Empire = Imperial Guard
Orcs = Orks
Chaos = Chaos


The only species that doesn't fit the theory: Tau. They belong in a manga, not on a WH 40k battlefield!

But yeah I still concur with you that it really is heavily inspired by fantasy . Things have gradually diverged sense then. Also Necrons compare quite easily to undead. Or better yet. TOMB KINGS! Although they've become more this recently.

I support the theory that says that the WHFB is in a separate universe, and sometimes people vanish through dimensional holes into the other universe.