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So, the title kind of says it all. Should Wolf Lords have 4 wounds? I'm of the personal opinion that they should.
After all, take the nearly identical build from the Space Marine codex: (I'm assuming a CC power build, because thaf's mainly what they are good for.)
Assuming that Chapter Tactics balance out Acute Senses and Counter-Assault, (though It Will Not Die from Iron Hands is way better,) for about the same cost you get these differences:
Wolf Lord: +1Attack, +3 Str, no chance of your weapon backfiring, always hit on 3+.
Chapter Master: +1 Wound, Hits at I5, Orbital Bombardment, a gun to shoot, can move 24".

This seems like a pretty huge discrepancy. The Chapter Master wins all around, losing pretty little. So, to match up with power creep, should theWolf Lord have 4 wounds?

(In case you're wondering, here are the builds I'm comparing:
Wolf Lord: Thunderwolf, Saga of the Bear, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Wolftooth Necklace, Wolftail Pendant
Chapter Master: Bike, Shield Eternal, and the Burning Blade

No, but Logan Grimnar should have 4 wounds because he's actually a Chapter Master.

Wolf Lords, however, could do with a bit of base points drop.

Wolf Lords are Space Wolf captains, right?

Captains should always be 3 wounds by default unless they're SC's.

If they take a thunderwolf mount then they should be four wounds

Why should a Chapter Master have 4 wounds exactly?..

GoliothOnline wrote:
Why should a Chapter Master have 4 wounds exactly?..

Becouse with ID so common and EW so rare it does not matter.
Yes, it would be nice if the Thunderwolf gave W+1

 Anpu42 wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Why should a Chapter Master have 4 wounds exactly?..

Becouse with ID so common and EW so rare it does not matter.
Yes, it would be nice if the Thunderwolf gave W+1

Oh, ok... Can Chaos Lords have 4 Wounds as well?.. Since it doesn't matter and all...

Chapter Masters having 4 Wounds pissed off a great deal of people... Myself being one of them... For no reason should they have been given 4, and no HQ that you can build and outfit yourself should have 4. Named Characters of significant importance and lore should be given 4 Wounds... Not generic clone-sons and implanted gene-seed bastards (Pardon my language on the matter)

While I do like that you can 'Build-your-own-Named-HQ' so to speak, allowing for fluffier homebrew chapters, I feel like they should either have allowed it for other classes or just not bothered. (After all, if you can't give Marnues a Repaint and call him Pete McWillards, lord of the Eternal Dasies, what kind of gamer are you?)
I think of what's said here, the +1 Wound for a Thunderwolf makes most sense. (Seeing as TWC have 2 wounds, despite being just Grey Hunters on wolfback.)

Waaaghpower wrote:
... (Seeing as TWC have 2 wounds, despite being just Grey Hunters on wolfback.)

TWC are Wolf Guard, not Grey Hunters.

 insaniak wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
... (Seeing as TWC have 2 wounds, despite being just Grey Hunters on wolfback.)

TWC are Wolf Guard, not Grey Hunters.

Well... Wolf Guard don't have 2 Wounds either, so there.

Waaaghpower wrote:
So, the title kind of says it all. Should Wolf Lords have 4 wounds? I'm of the personal opinion that they should.
After all, take the nearly identical build from the Space Marine codex: (I'm assuming a CC power build, because thaf's mainly what they are good for.)
Assuming that Chapter Tactics balance out Acute Senses and Counter-Assault, (though It Will Not Die from Iron Hands is way better,) for about the same cost you get these differences:
Wolf Lord: +1Attack, +3 Str, no chance of your weapon backfiring, always hit on 3+.
Chapter Master: +1 Wound, Hits at I5, Orbital Bombardment, a gun to shoot, can move 24".

This seems like a pretty huge discrepancy. The Chapter Master wins all around, losing pretty little. So, to match up with power creep, should theWolf Lord have 4 wounds?

(In case you're wondering, here are the builds I'm comparing:
Wolf Lord: Thunderwolf, Saga of the Bear, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Wolftooth Necklace, Wolftail Pendant
Chapter Master: Bike, Shield Eternal, and the Burning Blade

With the Thunderlord, you get to ID a lot of things and thats important, well worth it striking last.
All in all, Im not sure that the Thunderlord is worth his points but then again neither is the decked-out Chap Master. All in my opinion, of cource.

Nitpick: I dont think you can take The Burning Blade and The Shield Eternal as it is worded in the Codex. Has there been a FAQ?

Last I checked, the ruling was that you could take one Chapter Relic per exchanged weapon... So, 2 Chapter Relics. I could be wrong on that one, but it's what I heard.
Give him a Thunder Hammer, and the Chapter Master is now also much cheaper.

Actualy if you work it right and be able to give him the Two Puppy-Meat Shield, that gives you W5.

I thought a chaos lord could get 4 wounds if they took a juggernaut

Njtrent59 wrote:
I thought a chaos lord could get 4 wounds if they took a juggernaut

You can kit a Chaos Lord with a steed and make him bloody expensive as all hell by also forcing a Mark of Chaos upon him.... But then you have to buy him things to keep him alive as well...

The cost of taking a Jugernaught, or Palaquin just to give him extra wounds and Toughness isn't worth what comes with the package... Taking the Palaquin, doesn't increase your Toughness for instance... It just gives you Wounds... Taking the Juggernaught, gives you +1 Attack / Toughenss and Wounds... Arguable the best in the package... But on the wrong type of Lord... Terribly packaged... The Palaquin, a Nurgle "Steed" doesn't increase your Toughness Value at all.... By all logic It shouldn't give you +2 Wounds and +1 Attack... It should be +1 Toughness and +2 Wounds...

The Dex was ill thought out and terrible... Taking a Nurgle Lord just to unlock Plague Marines, costs you his point cost divided into the number of Plague Marines you decide to take.... Does that seem right to you? He doesn't get the privilege of ever taking a piece of Wargear which bestows EW... The best he can hope for is T6 so that str 10 weapons cannot ID him.... Like.... A Power Fist.... Chaos Lords got such a disgustingly raw deal in terms of both usefulness and actual purpose for the Dex...

 Anpu42 wrote:
Actualy if you work it right and be able to give him the Two Puppy-Meat Shield, that gives you W5.

A Two-puppy meatshield that lowers average toughness, is vulnerable to blast weapons, and is completely worthless in a Challenge. And has crap for armor, making them go away much faster than a single 2+3++ wound.

Njtrent59: Several steeds can give +1 wound, actually. I think it's Khorne and Nurgle that do that.

Wow. Space wolf tears?! That codex still has significant advantages over the core book. You give up GH +1A, your better scouts, Drop Pod terminators, thunderwolves, EW to just about anyone at a cheap cost, rune priests, HQ Dreads, LongFangs, Arjac the Broken, etc... and then you can take the +1 W on Logan. Your Wolf Lords are just captains, which have 3 wounds. Stop whining (aren't SW supposed to be tough and stoic?).

As long as an Ork Warboss only has three wounds as well, you will take your 3W and be bloody grateful.

 Lobukia wrote:
Wow. Space wolf tears?! That codex still has significant advantages over the core book. You give up GH +1A, your better scouts, Drop Pod terminators, thunderwolves, EW to just about anyone at a cheap cost, rune priests, HQ Dreads, LongFangs, Arjac the Broken, etc... and then you can take the +1 W on Logan. Your Wolf Lords are just captains, which have 3 wounds. Stop whining (aren't SW supposed to be tough and stoic?).

Let's see...
True dat on Grey Hunters, (But normal Marines can do that if you play Forge World. For +1 Point (Making them the same cost as GH) you can buy a CCW.)
We pay an extra 4 points for the slightly better scouts, and they're elites. That's not a gain, it's a wash.
Drop Pod Terminators aren't bad at all, but our Terminators also can't Teleport, so it's not like we're gaining much. It's 35 points to get something codex Marines have for free.
Thunderwolves are more expensive and less effective than Necron Wraiths. They're fun, but hardly broken by any means.
35 Points to give one model EW? (You can only buy it once per army.) How is that any worse than the Shield Eternal? (15 more points, you get +1 to your DTW and a Storm Shield.)
Rune Priests are pretty beast, definitely.
Are you seriously calling Bjorn an advantage? He costs more than a Land Raider and has practically no damage output.
Long Fangs are pretty beast, too.
Arjac the WHAT? Arjac Rockfist costs 185 Points and has only 2 wounds. There is no universe where Arjac is better than his equivalent in Assault Terminators. Heck, for just 45 more points you get Lysander for Space Marines, who gets twice as many wounds, better general stats, and Orbital Bombardment. (Which beats a 6" Hammer throw.)
Wolf Lords are just captains, yes. My original post wasn't about fluff, though, I was just pointing out that for more points, you get a less effective warrior who fulfills the exact same role, but worse.


I'm not saying that Space Wolves are a bad army. (Though, due to the complete lack of AA other than generic Fortifications and equally generic Forge World, we die instantly against flyers unless we bring allies,) I'm just frustrated that our most powerful leader is one-upped in most every sense by a cheaper model, in an army *not* specifically built for close-quarters prowess.

but our Terminators also can't Teleport

???? Elaborate please.... How do Terminators Teleport

Deep striking. Space wolves terminators can't do this

Why not exactly?... I thought the Terminator Armor brought the Deep Strike URS to the model it carried

NVM I just read the mistrust in DS

GoliothOnline wrote:
Chapter Masters having 4 Wounds pissed off a great deal of people... Myself being one of them... For no reason should they have been given 4, and no HQ that you can build and outfit yourself should have 4. Named Characters of significant importance and lore should be given 4 Wounds... Not generic clone-sons and implanted gene-seed bastards (Pardon my language on the matter)

Heldrakes.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Chapter Masters having 4 Wounds pissed off a great deal of people... Myself being one of them... For no reason should they have been given 4, and no HQ that you can build and outfit yourself should have 4. Named Characters of significant importance and lore should be given 4 Wounds... Not generic clone-sons and implanted gene-seed bastards (Pardon my language on the matter)

Heldrakes.

MUFFIN!!!!!

Would you like a cup for those tears?

GoliothOnline wrote:
Why not exactly?... I thought the Terminator Armor brought the Deep Strike URS to the model it carried

A Space-Wolf rule. They don't trust Teleport Homers, and therefore don't use them. Drop Pods are our substitute, and while they are handy for first-turn Landings and greater accuracy, (both of which can be done by various other power armored armies,) our squad size is limited.

 Lobukia wrote:
Wow. Space wolf tears?! That codex still has significant advantages over the core book. You give up GH +1A, your better scouts, Drop Pod terminators, Thunderwolves, EW to just about anyone at a cheap cost, rune priests, HQ Dreads, Long Fangs, Arjac the Broken, etc... and then you can take the +1 W on Logan. Your Wolf Lords are just captains, which have 3 wounds. Stop whining (aren't SW supposed to be tough and stoic?).

Eternal Warrior: We have Two Characters with EW and one more they can buy it, along with a W2 Model that if you don’t give a Storm Shield Two along wit 2 Wolves is going get gunned down in 6”-12” from his starting position. And it is not Cheep; it cost more than one of our Terminators
Scouts: Our Scouts are in a crowded Elite Slot.
Terminators: We can take Drop Pods, with 5 Terminators in them and if we want to take a HQ we loose the ability to take a Special Weapons. Thunder Hammer Storm Shield cost more than 60 points.
Arjac: Cost more than a Fully Kitted out Venerable Dreadnaught.
Björn: Dead with three Glances
Grey Hunters: Have to move to Shoot and entrenched Target. If we want Ld 9 and a Transport we give up the second Special Weapon and an Elite Slot.
Long Fangs: No Anti-Air, No Meat Shields, The choice of losing my Split Fire or a Heavy Weapon.

What do we not have:
>No Effective Anti-Aircraft without Allies
>No Feel No Pain
>No Combat Squads
>No FOC Free Units
>No Flying Transports

Steelmage99 wrote:
As long as an Ork Warboss only has three wounds as well, you will take your 3W and be bloody grateful.

I have no issues with that.

All Wolf Lords really need is a point decrease. Change up the points costs on some of the SW unique wargear to give them more choices and they will be just fine.

I'm sure they will get a rather significant overhaul when the codex gets redone, but nothing is happening until then anyway.

It would be really nice if we could get some kind of relic that is AP 2 at initiative just like everyone else has

Let your codex become part of SM then, then you can have the power creep you desire.

Seriously. SW had a long run at the top of the PA heap. You're at the end of the cycle and still very very good. Your Wolf Lords are Captains, and still have comparable stats and abilities. Comparing apples to apples, you have a 10% tax SM don't. Boohoo. Since 2009, you've had the better book. 4+ years!!! you can't take 1 year only being arguable as good as us as opposed to way better?! Nope, no WAAC power gamers here.