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Are space marine scout sergeants and veteran scout sergeants simply the most senior non battle-brother in the squad or are they actually full battle brother sergeants that have transferred to the 10th company to help train the new marines?

They are full battle brothers who have gone back to the tenth to train the next generation of the chapter.

Barring any recent retcons that I've missed Scout Sergeants are always full marines, typically the most senior Sergeants in the chapter as it's not just their job to lead the squad to success, it's also up to the sergeant to decide when individual scouts have proven themselves worthy of advancement to full marine - a n00b can't do that.

Gashrog wrote:
Barring any recent retcons that I've missed Scout Sergeants are always full marines, typically the most senior Sergeants in the chapter as it's not just their job to lead the squad to success, it's also up to the sergeant to decide when individual scouts have proven themselves worthy of advancement to full marine - a n00b can't do that.

I wonder if assignment to a scout squad is a career stagnating move for a space marine sergeant. Or maybe the opposite. A marine sergeant that has served as a scout sergeant and attained veteran status may be inducted to the 1st company. Once on that path I would think he'd be on track for Chapter Master's honor guard, 1st company captain or even chapter master. I've always been interested the career pathways of a individual marine.

We arn't told to much about space marine "rank" progression other than battlefield achievements or campaign veterancy.

It is in some sources implied or stated that the space marine fraternal is monastically communal to the point of self-annihilation style collectivism. If that is the case, space marines don't have "careers", they just do whatever is best for the chapter for its own sake, without any expectation of anything. The only things space marines expect in the future is to face insurmountable odds and win or die fighting them.

NumberZero wrote:
We arn't told to much about space marine "rank" progression other than battlefield achievements or campaign veterancy.

It is in some sources implied or stated that the space marine fraternal is monastically communal to the point of self-annihilation style collectivism. If that is the case, space marines don't have "careers", they just do whatever is best for the chapter for its own sake, without any expectation of anything. The only things space marines expect in the future is to face insurmountable odds and win or die fighting them.

I've read a couple of books (Helsreach and Damnos) that seem to imply that space marines don't mind dying as long as there's glory in it. Chaplain Grimaldus was upset that he was being sent against insurmountable odds on Armageddon when the bulk of the chapter stayed in space and fought a equally difficult battle. Captain Sicarus's marines were starting to question their captain's vanity and suicidal quest for glory.

Another question I had, and I may start a thread about it, where does the reserve company pull its command squad from? Any marines in the reserve company that perform well enough arent moved up in the company, they are instead moved to a battle company. For that matter, where are the reserve company's sergeants pulled from? If a reserve marine makes sergeant, does he then return to battle brother status once hes been transferred to a battle company?

 ender0656 wrote:


Another question I had, and I may start a thread about it, where does the reserve company pull its command squad from? Any marines in the reserve company that perform well enough arent moved up in the company, they are instead moved to a battle company. For that matter, where are the reserve company's sergeants pulled from? If a reserve marine makes sergeant, does he then return to battle brother status once hes been transferred to a battle company?

My answer would be that, presumably, once you are sufficiently veteran in a battle company as a grunt you get sent to be a sergeant in a reserve company. Much like 10th company seargeants. Hard to say which is more glorious. At any rate, if you do well (not get killed) in any of those roles you get to be 1st company grunt. Then either command of a battle or reserve company or command staff of the first.

Thats how I always read it anyway.

NumberZero wrote:

 ender0656 wrote:


Another question I had, and I may start a thread about it, where does the reserve company pull its command squad from? Any marines in the reserve company that perform well enough arent moved up in the company, they are instead moved to a battle company. For that matter, where are the reserve company's sergeants pulled from? If a reserve marine makes sergeant, does he then return to battle brother status once hes been transferred to a battle company?

My answer would be that, presumably, once you are sufficiently veteran in a battle company as a grunt you get sent to be a sergeant in a reserve company. Much like 10th company seargeants. Hard to say which is more glorious. At any rate, if you do well (not get killed) in any of those roles you get to be 1st company grunt. Then either command of a battle or reserve company or command staff of the first.

Thats how I always read it anyway.

I never really considered the 1st company to be a stop on the path to a command position. If anything I figured the 1st company was the destination of marines who are exceptional in combat but have little to no command ability. Marines who display a talent for leadership will be brought up in the ranks by their immediate superiors within their company.

 ender0656 wrote:

Another question I had, and I may start a thread about it, where does the reserve company pull its command squad from? Any marines in the reserve company that perform well enough arent moved up in the company, they are instead moved to a battle company.

According to Insignium Astartes for marines who have attained veteran status assignment to the command squad is in lieu of promotion to the 1st company. The same presumably applies to non-veterans being promoted from reserve to battle companies. I figure if a Captain wants a marine in his command squad he gets to keep him, unless another Captain really REALLY wants that marine and can convince the Chapter Master a transfer is in order.. but how often is that going to happen?

 ender0656 wrote:

Gashrog wrote:
Barring any recent retcons that I've missed Scout Sergeants are always full marines, typically the most senior Sergeants in the chapter as it's not just their job to lead the squad to success, it's also up to the sergeant to decide when individual scouts have proven themselves worthy of advancement to full marine - a n00b can't do that.

I wonder if assignment to a scout squad is a career stagnating move for a space marine sergeant. Or maybe the opposite. A marine sergeant that has served as a scout sergeant and attained veteran status may be inducted to the 1st company. Once on that path I would think he'd be on track for Chapter Master's honor guard, 1st company captain or even chapter master. I've always been interested the career pathways of a individual marine.

if it was deemed to be a punishment to be assigned to a scout squad they would end up with lousy scouts. The scout sergeants are responible for the future of tne chapter and should be treated with respect.

I imagine some chapters that don't value their scout companies (Red Scorpions being a good example) being sent to train the next wave of marines would be insufferable to the sergeant in question.

And then you have guys like Sergeant Telion of the Ultramarines and Sergeant Cyrus of the Blood Ravens that skill and knowledge wise could lead the chapter but remain heading the 10th company so make sure future generations of the chapter are going to be better than they would under any one else's tutelage.

what happens is sorta this.

marine placed into 10th company as scout.

serves for so many years or for so many actions until his sergeant puts him up for promotion. This can be sped up if battle companies need replacements.

He then gets placed in either the devestators or assault marine battle companies for x amount of time and then swaps to the other for another x amount of time. He is then promoted to an active battle company (3rd-7th). Other options at this point are recruitment into the Apothecarion, Libraius, or Mechanicum in which they leave the chapter for a time to train for their new role.

Marines are stuck here until they are judged competent enough to be promoted. They will either take up a sergeant position in one of the battle companies, or (in the case of a wounded or disgraced marine) possibly be sent back home to lead new recruits in the 10th or be stationed with the 2nd company defence force.

If a marine serves long enough as a serg in an active battle company he can gain veteran status, at which point he will either be promoted to first company or take up a position in his current battle company's command squad.

Truly heroic and capable marines who serve dilligently in the first company may, upon the death of a previous captain, receive a promotion to captain of one of the companies.

All Scout Marine sergeants are full marines.

It is widely held that while a pivotal role, being a sergeant is something of a backwater duty. It's more dangerous in some ways than being a normal sergeant (same duties, but you're also an infiltrater and have less armour or support, and half your squadmates are not really marines yet), but it has no more career paths than a normal sergeant would.

Most Scout sergeants remain sergeants their career, either because they die one, or because they turn down the chance of being a captain. Torias Telion is an example of this.

Space marines are equals. You prove your worth in battle, your actual role doesn't matter. A techmarine may be a techmarine, but he can still receive an honour if he performs heroically. A scout marine sergeant may be just that, but he can still be rewarded for excellent service.

Many chapters send brothers from the 1st company to train their scouts. This ensures that the scouts will learn skills from a very accomplished battle-brother and will strengthen the chapter with each passing generation.

The few chapters that I can think of that do this are the Blood Angels, White Scars, Crimson Fists and Imperial Fists. They each have a book or short story that details a scout sergeant and one of them, Crimson Fists I believe, was quite interesting because once the Scout Sergeant was discovered the entire veteran squad sent to rescue him showed him complete obedience. This is a big deal since a Chaplain and another Sergeant were present in the squad that rescued the Scout Sergeant, but they explained it was because the Scout held so many campaign honors during his service in the 1st company.

Pedro Kantor wrote:
They are full battle brothers who have gone back to the tenth to train the next generation of the chapter.

This.

They are basically the chapter's old farts who have been regulated to training the next generation. The closest a Marine can get to retirement.

Training the initiates is both an honor and a shame. An honor in that you mould the future of the chapter, but also a shame in that you have passed your days of glory and won't participate in many more important battles.

I can see the honor, but all the fluff I have seen none of it indicates any real shame in being a Scout Sgt., well, other then the Space Wolves. They are just different almost all around.

You also have SGT's like Telion. Who according to some fluff, is STILL getting honors with his shooting, who has trained many of the Ultramarines that are alive at the moment ( I wanna say Calgar too just cant quite remember), I would see that as an honor.

Its subtle, but much of the fluff I've seen has it there. Its more of personal shame than anything the rest of the chapter sends at them. The sergeant himself feels less valuable because he is no longer on the front lines doing battle with the Emperor's foes, instead he's playing babysitter to a bunch of newbs.

Space Wolf scout sergeants are a completely different kettle of kraken though. :p

Wolf Scouts are what happens to Long Fangs who don't like to give up shanking things.

Orblivion wrote:

NumberZero wrote:

 ender0656 wrote:


Another question I had, and I may start a thread about it, where does the reserve company pull its command squad from? Any marines in the reserve company that perform well enough arent moved up in the company, they are instead moved to a battle company. For that matter, where are the reserve company's sergeants pulled from? If a reserve marine makes sergeant, does he then return to battle brother status once hes been transferred to a battle company?

My answer would be that, presumably, once you are sufficiently veteran in a battle company as a grunt you get sent to be a sergeant in a reserve company. Much like 10th company seargeants. Hard to say which is more glorious. At any rate, if you do well (not get killed) in any of those roles you get to be 1st company grunt. Then either command of a battle or reserve company or command staff of the first.

Thats how I always read it anyway.

I never really considered the 1st company to be a stop on the path to a command position. If anything I figured the 1st company was the destination of marines who are exceptional in combat but have little to no command ability. Marines who display a talent for leadership will be brought up in the ranks by their immediate superiors within their company.

I wouldn't say that, on the majority they have no ability to lead. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that most of the 1st company were sergeants in their previous companies. Most chapter masters are pulled from the 1st company captains with a few exceptions. I wonder how a new company (2nd-10th) captain is decided. Is is a collective decision between the chapter master, the command squad, the librarius, and the senior chaplain?

Eihnlazer wrote:what happens is sorta this.

marine placed into 10th company as scout.

serves for so many years or for so many actions until his sergeant puts him up for promotion. This can be sped up if battle companies need replacements.

He then gets placed in either the devestators or assault marine battle companies for x amount of time and then swaps to the other for another x amount of time. He is then promoted to an active battle company (3rd-7th). Other options at this point are recruitment into the Apothecarion, Libraius, or Mechanicum in which they leave the chapter for a time to train for their new role.

Marines are stuck here until they are judged competent enough to be promoted. They will either take up a sergeant position in one of the battle companies, or (in the case of a wounded or disgraced marine) possibly be sent back home to lead new recruits in the 10th or be stationed with the 2nd company defence force.

If a marine serves long enough as a serg in an active battle company he can gain veteran status, at which point he will either be promoted to first company or take up a position in his current battle company's command squad.

Truly heroic and capable marines who serve dilligently in the first company may, upon the death of a previous captain, receive a promotion to captain of one of the companies.

You dont think the company captains are more likely pulled from the company they're about to be in charge of? I always assume there was a second in command in the captains command squad that would assume leadership after the captains death.

GreyChaos wrote:Many chapters send brothers from the 1st company to train their scouts. This ensures that the scouts will learn skills from a very accomplished battle-brother and will strengthen the chapter with each passing generation.

The few chapters that I can think of that do this are the Blood Angels, White Scars, Crimson Fists and Imperial Fists. They each have a book or short story that details a scout sergeant and one of them, Crimson Fists I believe, was quite interesting because once the Scout Sergeant was discovered the entire veteran squad sent to rescue him showed him complete obedience. This is a big deal since a Chaplain and another Sergeant were present in the squad that rescued the Scout Sergeant, but they explained it was because the Scout held so many campaign honors during his service in the 1st company.

I don't know how I feel about a chaplain showing obedience to anyone accept maybe the captain and senior chaplains. Then again, every veteran is a hero with a legend of his own so maybe its not that big of a stretch.

Grey Templar wrote:Its subtle, but much of the fluff I've seen has it there. Its more of personal shame than anything the rest of the chapter sends at them. The sergeant himself feels less valuable because he is no longer on the front lines doing battle with the Emperor's foes, instead he's playing babysitter to a bunch of newbs.

I think its closer to what we called a billet in the marines. You'd have your rank like sergeant or staff sergeant but you may also have a secondary job or billet such as safety nco or communications nco. You could also do a rotation as a marine security guard (highly desirable) or as a temporary aid to the military police guarding the gates of the base (low desire). Assignment to these duties was not always about your performance, but rather something that everyone had to do in a rotation.

Its probably sergeant and chapter specific. Even in the same chapter, one sergeant may abhor training new recruits and being away from the thick of the fight while another treats it like a honor.

Pedro Kantor wrote:
They are full battle brothers who have gone back to the tenth to train the next generation of the chapter.

Not always. There are several Scout Sergeants in the novels who's bodies have rejected their implants so cannot become full marines: "Something had gone wrong when the black carapace was being grafted to his body, his flesh rejecting the neural interfaces that would allow him to interact with a suit of power armour as though it were a second skin. His body’s rejection of that final implant had condemned Carius to remain among the neophytes, instructing and training them to advance to places their teacher could never go" Brother-Sergeant Carius, Emperor's Warbringers - Setting the Stage (eBook) by C L Werner.

 ender0656 wrote:
You dont think the company captains are more likely pulled from the company they're about to be in charge of? I always assume there was a second in command in the captains command squad that would assume leadership after the captains death.

This is pretty chapter specific but as most Space Marine ranking are based on actual military IRL, that's rarely the case. New command almost always comes from another rank of command, rather than from within the unit. A sergeant is a guy who's proven himself to an individual unit and then leads them, a captain is a guy trained to lead. Typically.

I know with Dark Angels, the company masters are always drawn from the ranks of the 1st company, as it isn't until then they're made aware of the chapters' secrets and become part of the Inner Circle. It's also why every last captain can don Terminator armor within the Dark Angels, rather than simply the head of 1st company (or guys who were but then were made to lead a different company, like Lysander.)

We've seen several cases in the novels where sergeants in the company are chosen to be the new captain of that company. That could either be an indication of some chapters always doing it that way, or an indication that there is no set rule and the chapters look at each situation individually.

Regardless, I've always thought of the majority of the 1st company veterans as the marines who possessed the combat prowess necessary to be a captain, but not the leadership ability. Of course there will always be exceptions, but for the most part I'll continue thinking of it like that.