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So i just picked up the eldar codex, and HOLY CRAP. Almost everything in that book is amazing.

Yup.

Double yup!

Eldar were my first army, and then i got out of the game then i got back in with DE, then sold them, then got dark angels. I was thinking i wanted to get back to my roots before the dex dropped but i was doing DA at the time, now that im done with them i grabbed the codex and dang. i just wanted them to be my pretty army.

Skal098 wrote:
Eldar were my first army, and then i got out of the game then i got back in with DE, then sold them, then got dark angels. I was thinking i wanted to get back to my roots before the dex dropped but i was doing DA at the time, now that im done with them i grabbed the codex and dang. i just wanted them to be my pretty army.

Well, you can still play Eldar without seeming like a WAAC power gamer. It'll be rough, as the codex is pretty broken, but if you stay away from Wave Serpent spam and only field 1 Wraithknight, your opponents will at least have fun while they die.

Well to be honest i want 2 knights, and one reaper squad. but i want regular guardians, cause i love the gun platforms, but i also want a bunch of other stuff, i love all the aspects and i love eldrad, now if i could just find a way to work hawk turquoise into the scheme fluff wise.

Skal098 wrote:
Well to be honest i want 2 knights, and one reaper squad. but i want regular guardians, cause i love the gun platforms, but i also want a bunch of other stuff, i love all the aspects and i love eldrad, now if i could just find a way to work hawk turquoise into the scheme fluff wise.

How about Mymeara?

If you played Eldar when they were underpowered you have earned the right to play them while they are OP. I'm sure your opponents didn't trim down their lists to play against you.

are we allowed to play eldar if we just want wraith units?

Aww man, how do I play Eldar without looking WAAC? My codex is just too good!

First-world army problems.

 Voidwraith wrote:

Skal098 wrote:
Eldar were my first army, and then i got out of the game then i got back in with DE, then sold them, then got dark angels. I was thinking i wanted to get back to my roots before the dex dropped but i was doing DA at the time, now that im done with them i grabbed the codex and dang. i just wanted them to be my pretty army.

Well, you can still play Eldar without seeming like a WAAC power gamer. It'll be rough, as the codex is pretty broken, but if you stay away from Wave Serpent spam and only field 1 Wraithknight, your opponents will at least have fun while they die.

So something like a mini jet star with baron , venom with wychs , 2 jet bike squads and a titan?

Aww man, how do I play Eldar without looking WAAC? My codex is just too good!
First-world army problems.

That is priceless! Have an Exalt!

 the shrouded lord wrote:
are we allowed to play eldar if we just want wraith units?

I'll let you know, Ive only proxied mine. Generally you can tell what kind of game your going to have the second they see your army. "Stink face" is a common one when you know your opponent's been Eldars boot wipe repeatedly.

As for wraithwall my prediction is:
Opponent sees Eldar, makes boo boo pouty stink face. Then asks how many Wave serpents you have, you say none or 2, then he gets "haha surprise butt secks time" smirk. Then struggles with T6 and its back to boo boo pouty stink face.

I've started asking what people's lists are. If they're cheese I don't play them.
There are plenty of Eldar lists that aren't cheese though.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
are we allowed to play eldar if we just want wraith units?

I'll let you know, Ive only proxied mine. Generally you can tell what kind of game your going to have the second they see your army. "Stink face" is a common one when you know your opponent's been Eldars boot wipe repeatedly.

As for wraithwall my prediction is:
Opponent sees Eldar, makes boo boo pouty stink face. Then asks how many Wave serpents you have, you say none or 2, then he gets "haha surprise butt secks time" smirk. Then struggles with T6 and its back to boo boo pouty stink face.

No wave serpents. just guard, blade, 1 lord, 2 knights. I don't own them yet and don't want to buy something that will get me the "no, I will not play this" face.

Makumba wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Skal098 wrote:
Eldar were my first army, and then i got out of the game then i got back in with DE, then sold them, then got dark angels. I was thinking i wanted to get back to my roots before the dex dropped but i was doing DA at the time, now that im done with them i grabbed the codex and dang. i just wanted them to be my pretty army.

Well, you can still play Eldar without seeming like a WAAC power gamer. It'll be rough, as the codex is pretty broken, but if you stay away from Wave Serpent spam and only field 1 Wraithknight, your opponents will at least have fun while they die.

So something like a mini jet star with baron , venom with wychs , 2 jet bike squads and a titan?

oh ya for sure no one will think your tfg for sure with that. Maybe take a tau formation in there to. Just make sure to wear a cup when you do, your opponent might not be that happy after the game and will want to release his fury on a specificly painful part of the body ...

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
are we allowed to play eldar if we just want wraith units?

I'll let you know, Ive only proxied mine. Generally you can tell what kind of game your going to have the second they see your army. "Stink face" is a common one when you know your opponent's been Eldars boot wipe repeatedly.

As for wraithwall my prediction is:
Opponent sees Eldar, makes boo boo pouty stink face. Then asks how many Wave serpents you have, you say none or 2, then he gets "haha surprise butt secks time" smirk. Then struggles with T6 and its back to boo boo pouty stink face.

No wave serpents. just guard, blade, 1 lord, 2 knights. I don't own them yet and don't want to buy something that will get me the "no, I will not play this" face.

It should be fine, if you're opponent doesn't understand the army can be out manoeuvered and gets stink face then there isn't much you can do, some people don't want to learn.

 SHUPPET wrote:
If you played Eldar when they were underpowered you have earned the right to play them while they are OP. I'm sure your opponents didn't trim down their lists to play against you.

What a horrible attitude - I feel sad for you and your opponents...

Its the same for any army list - it should depend on your game - casual / friendly games - If neither of you load up on Cheese (thats Wave serpents and Seer Council for Eldar) the it should be a good fun game.

If tis a Tourney / competative game - the its likely that your opponent will both expect and prepare for Cheese by bringing his own and noether of you will be happy if it you don''t.

I think its best both players know what form of game there are preparing for to maximise enjoyment for all.

Maybe take a tau formation in there to.

doesn't fit in to 1500pts.

If you played Eldar when they were underpowered you have earned the right to play them while they are OP. I'm sure your opponents didn't trim down their lists to play against you.

Eldar underpowered history.
2ed. wining GT , OP like no other army . Journal Harlequin list was like 9 models at 1500 and could kill a 2000 army no problem .
3ed. star cannon spam . Welcome to the world of anti tank , anti meq weapons , that are perfect to beat those OP rhino rushs and IG tank companies. Later Craftworld eldar . Because the basic eldar codex was not good enough.
4th Welcome to the world of circus . Where a single transport can take and survive shoting from a 1500pts army and maybe have a weapon destroyed.
5th. Oh my I have to play high skill footdar list , that still wins GT tournaments and places high in many nationals around the world .
Eldar bad= not as good and easy to play as GK or necrons. SM who make the core of all w40k players could only dream about the power level eldar had in 5th.
6th . Troll you with being the only faction with a legal D armed titan in escalation , waver serpents , Taudar , seer+baron , Eldar+Deldar BB it out .

 SHUPPET wrote:
If you played Eldar when they were underpowered you have earned the right to play them while they are OP. I'm sure your opponents didn't trim down their lists to play against you.

Yeah this is a pretty awful attitude to have. Regardless of your faction and competitive history, you are *never* entitled to be overpowered as some form of bizarre retro-balancing apology. When a book typically remains in circulation for 4+ years a badly-balanced book can be devastating for everyone else on a major scale.

Finally, seriously? Eldar have earned the right?

Of all races, Eldar have consistently been the most overpowered, badly-balanced race in every single iteration of their book. The one and only period that they were not the top dog was during 5th Edition, at which point it still held the best Melta-toting infantry and psychic defence in the game. Even when the book was out of date and the game escalating all around them, you still held a place. Out of all the races in the game, Eldar are the last that should ever 'earn the right' to be OP.

2nd Edition - Warp Spiders ho!
3rd Edition- Starcannons ho!
3.5, Craftoworld- BS4 Starcannons ho! Alternatively, Alaitoc disruption!
4th Edition- Harley-Falcon clowncar Rendingstorm
5th Edition- Alas, only have Eldrad and Fragons, woe is you.
6th Edition- It should be very obvious.

No army is ever entitled to being overpowered, and even if they were, Eldar were on top for a very, very long time.

Skal098 wrote:
So i just picked up the eldar codex, and HOLY CRAP. Almost everything in that book is amazing.

Weird - based on the forums at the time of release, you'd think everything that read this codex for the first time thought it was wholey CRAP. Of course now we know better...

To take another run at this from a different angle, it's all about your playgroup. If you have a super competitive group of guys who play as if they're practicing for the tournament circuit, then you don't ever have to apologize for playing whatever models you'd like. Hardcore lists are welcomed so people can get experience against them, as are the oddball builds that can also be competitive.

If however, when you survey the landscape and most of your 40k players are hobbyists or casual gamers who aren't chasing the "bleeding edge" of competitive gaming, a hardcore list can be fun at first (everyone likes to play against the new hotness from time to time), but honestly, YOU, the person playing the hardcore list, will most likely tire of clubbing the baby seals and move on to something else. If you're not going to tournies, you're smashing the sub-optimal lists that your buds are fielding, and your fellow gamers aren't having fun playing you like they used to, what's the point? (Your opponent: "Yes yes, you've proven once again that Eldar are indeed one of the best codecies in the game. Huzzah." *mumbles something about going back to Warhammer Fantasy as he walks away*)

I've seen it happen a few times at my FLGS (a few people try to make the hardest lists possible, but the vast majority are just playing with the models that they own or are fluffy players). Eldar came out, a guy loaded up on wave serpents and smashed everyone's older codecies armies, got burned out, sold said army to the store manager, who then looked to sell it out of the area so we'd never have to see it again. Another example...the store manager was into the Tau when they were released, but after seeing how OP/Broken they are, has started limiting his list building to only using 1 of a given unit. It's still pretty OP, but allows for better games...

I personally always gravitate towards using underdog codecies and trying to sqeeze every drop out of them (which, I guess, is why I started up Blood Angels a year ago and am now getting back into my first army, Tyranids, in a big way). Games are almost always fun, I never mind losing, and wins are always rewarding. The only recent game I had that was not fun at all was against Eldar, and on top of being outmatched from the start (I was using my Blood Angels), I had non-stop bad luck...failing leadership tests, failing 5" charge distance rolls...the works. Ah well...dice.

No we aren't very competitive yet, but i'm not going to build a waac list its going to be more fluffy, cause i love the looks of everything in that book. I fully plan to take as many different aspect warriors as i can, as in 1 warp spiders 1 dark reapers 1 striking scorps 1 howling banshees and so on to the FoC allotment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for games i'm going to be more serious on i have my dark angels they aren't complete cheese and gives everyone a fun and good fight.

Skal098 wrote:
No we aren't very competitive yet, but i'm not going to build a waac list its going to be more fluffy, cause i love the looks of everything in that book. I fully plan to take as many different aspect warriors as i can, as in 1 warp spiders 1 dark reapers 1 striking scorps 1 howling banshees and so on to the FoC allotment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for games i'm going to be more serious on i have my dark angels they aren't complete cheese and gives everyone a fun and good fight.

Sounds good - Although Howling Banshees are sadly very bad and difficult to use (no assault transport, T3 and 4+ save) - thats from someone has about 25 of them

A box of each foot aspect sans banshees, an Asuraman, two 10man DAs, a well-equiped Exarch in *every*squad, and a Serpent for the FDs clocks in at 1500 all told, is quite fluffy, and is a ton of fun to play with or against, if a bit weak.

(Mine didn't have the points to replace the Serpent with a Falcon)

 Voidwraith wrote:

Skal098 wrote:
Eldar were my first army, and then i got out of the game then i got back in with DE, then sold them, then got dark angels. I was thinking i wanted to get back to my roots before the dex dropped but i was doing DA at the time, now that im done with them i grabbed the codex and dang. i just wanted them to be my pretty army.

Well, you can still play Eldar without seeming like a WAAC power gamer. It'll be rough, as the codex is pretty broken, but if you stay away from Wave Serpent spam and only field 1 Wraithknight, your opponents will at least have fun while they die.

My Daemons have a fun time crushing Eldar!

Eldar aren't OP neither are Tau, both armies have a selection of choices that are between a little and a lot too good for their points which is why they are often allied to allow you to make a full army of those choices more easily.

Wave Serpent Spam, Jetseer Councils, Riptide spam are the worst offenders but both armies can put together lists that are entirely non-WAAC/OP with very little effort.
Guardians, DA, Rangers, Wraithguard/Blades none of those are unbalanced, Jetbikes are crazy cheap for what you get, it's only when each of your units starts buying the class Scatterserpents things get a bit iffy.
Building a perfectly balanced list is more likely than not what you will end up doing if you just choose units you like, 90% of it is perfectly fine.

People seem to have some very selective memories when it comes to Eldar power levels over the years.

2nd Ed: Eldar are comically good, their are fragile but it doesn't matter because their guns vaporize anything and you troops will all be murdered by sub 100pt Combat Drugged Exarch IC's with a 24" charge range.
3rd Ed: Eldar are pretty meh, then GW releases the Craftworld dex and unleashes some truly unbalanced stuff in the Ulthwe Seer Council (Sorry 2 BS4 Starcannons was not impressive but the council was) or the ridiculous Aliatoc Ranger table.
4th Ed: Yes Skimmers were indestructible, however Eldar firepower was in the toilet so you spent most games trying to win purely by using said skimmers to contest.
5th Ed: Eldar were weak, don't try and sugar coat it any other way, Eldar of all flavours were just meat for the SW/BA/GK/Cron grinder
6th Ed: They have one of the power builds that dominate the tourney scene again.

4th edition Eldar lists had good firepower for the day. And that firepower carried over to 5th. Multi-casting fortune never went out of style.

Eldar and Tau are indeed OP, don't listen to the apologists. The Tau start off with the humble Kroot as a better troop than a space marine and it gets nothing but worse from there.

The Eldar have pseudo rending and lots of access to ID on top of all their obviously undercosted units.

If you're afraid of pseudo rending at 12" on a t3 5+ platform (with low LD), then you might want to take another look.

If you're afraid of pseudo rending at 18" on a t3 4+ at 13ppm (the cost of a CSM!), then you might need to rethink things.

If you're afraid of pseudo rending on an assault cannon-equivelent (one less shot, no true rending), I think you're missing something.

Pseudo rending is awesome, but its not broken. Most of the Eldar dex pays for what it can do.

Our ID options are all only-on-6 on low-volume weapons, too.

The Serpent's gunboat ability, Seer Star, and probably the 'Knight are OP, but beyond that, its not bad.

Still better than what most other lists get.