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Doesn't the morale rules tell you you're immediatly Falling Back after failing a morale test?
You'd make a Falling back move immediatly after the test, but also regroup immediatly. Synapse precising it happens before the move, wouldn't it fall in the basic VS advanced category?

 Spellbound wrote:
But you are not falling back until you are falling back.

By that do you mean "they are not falling back until they make a fall back move"?
As noted there are more parts to Falling Back then just the Fall Back Move.

 Spellbound wrote:
But you are not falling back until you are falling back.

You are falling back after you fail the test. And synapse states that if you fail the test and are in synapse range BEFORE you move you regroup.

So what happens is:
Fail the test
Check if you are in synapse
If yes: regroup without moving
If no: do the fallback move

HOWEVER, ive seen people post that they also regroup as soon as they ENTER synapse range. Which is not true.

If a unit from Codex: Tyranids is falling back and at least one of the unit’s models is within a friendly Synapse Creature’s synapse range before the unit moves, the unit automatically Regroups.

 Spellbound wrote:
But you are not falling back until you are falling back..

No, as pointed out, falling back has within it a fall back move. You can be falling back without making a fall back move - the usual point you regroup we know that is true, as a trivial example

Again. You are arguing HIWPI, please mark your posts as such

Can we quit discussing Synapse (move that to the other thread) and discuss how the fall back would actually occur?

If there was a hypothetical flying monstrous creature without fearless or any sort of auto-regroup, it is swooping and is caused to fall back, what happens?

It would seem sensible that it falls back 3D6" like a Jump Infantry unit, but importantly, which way does it end up facing?
Does it fall back but still retain its current facing? (Which could entail it strafing or flying in reverse)
Or does it need to attempt to fall back within the rules of a swooping MC, eg it must turn 90* towards its board edge and then move 3D6 forwards?
Does moving <12 on a 3D6 contradict with swooping rules that it must move 12"?


This one applies to the synapse question as well:
If the swooping flying MC regroups, and if it is still considered to be swooping at this stage, may it use this regroup to pivot 90*?

Pg 49, "At the start of its move, a flying monstrous creature must declare if it is swooping or gliding until the start of its next turn."
If a fall back move counts as a 'move', does this mean that every time it falls back it can declare whether it is swooping or gliding? (and thus potentially use an auto-regroup via synapse in the opponents turn to give a full 360* pivot before swooping again in your next turn?)

Trasvi wrote:
If there was a hypothetical flying monstrous creature without fearless or any sort of auto-regroup, it is swooping and is caused to fall back, what happens?

The rules simply don't cover it.

I'd suggest a house rule that's it's forced to glide. Far less messy.

Trasvi wrote:
Can we quit discussing Synapse (move that to the other thread) and discuss how the fall back would actually occur?

If there was a hypothetical flying monstrous creature without fearless or any sort of auto-regroup, it is swooping and is caused to fall back, what happens?

It would seem sensible that it falls back 3D6" like a Jump Infantry unit, but importantly, which way does it end up facing?
Does it fall back but still retain its current facing? (Which could entail it strafing or flying in reverse)
Or does it need to attempt to fall back within the rules of a swooping MC, eg it must turn 90* towards its board edge and then move 3D6 forwards?
Does moving <12 on a 3D6 contradict with swooping rules that it must move 12"?

The Swooping rules are more specific than the fall back rules, so it would pivot 90 degrees towards its board edge and move 3d6 inches.
Falling back less than 12" would not break the rules any more than a jump unit falling back more than 12" or an infantry unit falling back more than 6" does.

This one applies to the synapse question as well:
If the swooping flying MC regroups, and if it is still considered to be swooping at this stage, may it use this regroup to pivot 90*?

The only time a Swooping FMC does not have permission to pivot when moving is when running.

Pg 49, "At the start of its move, a flying monstrous creature must declare if it is swooping or gliding until the start of its next turn."
If a fall back move counts as a 'move', does this mean that every time it falls back it can declare whether it is swooping or gliding? (and thus potentially use an auto-regroup via synapse in the opponents turn to give a full 360* pivot before swooping again in your next turn?)

"...until the start of its next turn" suggests that without specific permission to change the flight mode (e.g. grounding tests) you may not choose to change your flight mode for the entire game turn.

If the Swooping Rules are move specific, the table says that a Swooping FMC cannot fall back.

However the Swooping rules say that they move like a Jump unit, which fall back 3d6".

 PrinceRaven wrote:
However the Swooping rules say that they move like a Jump unit, which fall back 3d6".

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I find that a bit of a weak point.
The rules for Monstrous Creatures don't say anything in particular about falling back moves, nor do they specifically reference moving like infantry, yet the summary table lists them with a 2D6" fall back move.
One could assume then that if Swooping Flying MC's are able to fall back they would have a 3D6" fall back move on the summary table, considering they they explicitly move like jump infantry, rather than needing to infer this fall back move. Instead they are listed with a n/a, which I would take as a much stronger indication that they don't fall back at all than that you should use the Jump Infantry fall back distance.
If we were supposed to infer the proper fall back distance from the jump infantry type, I would think that some of the other unit types (especially Monstrous Creatures) would also have a n/a fall back distance also.

The tables in the reference section were already erratted at least once to match earlier sections of the book. I don't trust the reference section when it contradicts the main chapters of the book and quoting them does not make for a strong argument in a debate.

It makes just as strong a point as making up 90* turns and X distances.

delete

Fragile wrote:
It makes just as strong a point as making up 90* turns and X distances.

I agree with this.

Even with moving like a Jump MC, the exceptions to that statement then listed make it impossible for a FMC to perform a fall back move, the FMC must continue in the same direction, a fall back move is towards your table edge, a swooping FMC, can not do this.

RAW wise a Swooping FMC is unable to make a fall back move. This is a very roundabout way of declaring that, and I don't like to take such things as gospel, but it is as much justified, if not more so than other options.

 Nem wrote:
the FMC must continue in the same direction

That's the important bit. A fall back move, or indeed any (standard) move doesn't require the model to be facing the direction they move in. You don't have to move forward in a straight line. So simply moving backwards without pivoting is fine.
Problem is the Swooping rules are an exception to this, they must move forward, that's the part of the rule that potential gets broken.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Nem wrote:
the FMC must continue in the same direction

That's the important bit. A fall back move, or indeed any (standard) move doesn't require the model to be facing the direction they move in. You don't have to move forward in a straight line. So simply moving backwards without pivoting is fine.
Problem is the Swooping rules are an exception to this, they must move forward, that's the part of the rule that potential gets broken.

Which makes more sense that a swooping FMC cannot fall back.