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1. Set up your own tables at home.
2. Charge half the price local GW does for using them.
3. Profit.

pejota wrote:
Paying the markup is a one time deal for stuff you don't buy from him. He's a stickler about buying his products. If you buy it cheaper on ebay how is that keeping his doors open?

WOW
If someone told me to pay a markup because I didn't buy from them before I was allowed to play I would laugh my ass off as I pack my things back up and leave.

I'm guessing his justification is that part about ebay sales not keeping his door open, to which I would say tough luck, keeping him in business is not my responsibility. If he want's to stay in business maybe he should focus on getting customers in his store, which would make them more likely to buy from him. One way he could do that is by offering free open gaming.

pejota wrote:

If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.

That is really, really shady. If he pockets the money himself without GW's knowledge then it's borderline illegal. He shouldn't be able to demand fees for use of property he does not own and keep the fees without express permission from corporate. In addition, charging arbitrary mark-up fees for transactions he has no part in is shifty enough that I doubt GW major had anything to do with it.

Do you mind giving me the location of the store?

1. My FLGS is an independent store carrying MANY other games than GW product.

2. The tables are free to use. The owner never charges fees for tournaments, campaigns or special events even though he offers store credit to the winner.

3. The owner wants people to buy his products he carries in the store. If it's not in stock, he can order just about anything on the market, even products from other companies.

4. If a customer doesn't buy from him he'll ask you to pay to use the table OR you can pay a ONE TIME markup fee so that he's cool with it. The example given was the guy who bought a lot of Sisters stuff on ebay. The guy STILL PAID LESS than full retail after ebay and the markup fee. The owner was 100% cool with that.

5. I own a TON of stuff from the 10+ years I've been playing. I've never once had to pay to play or pay a markup. The owner isn't crazy and understands people have collections. I also buy from him religiously so he knows I'm good for some profit especially when new stuff gets released for the armies I collect.

6. The one practice I don't agree with is having to "settle up" if I buy stuff from a local player who already bought those items from the FLGS. The argument is that I could have bought the items brand new from him so he makes a profit.

7. The argument, "buy your own table and invite your friends over" doesn't work for me. My dogs will eat people. I'm also reluctant to go to the homes of the various local gamers for several reasons. The store owner is also great at running events, keeping track of campaigns and buying the terrain we all use, for free I might add. Matter of fact, we just finished up a Treachery and Triumph campaign using the store's copy of the kit. None of us had to buy it and he didn't charge a fee. Keeping his doors opens gives the rest of us a place to meet and play without worrying about space, time, dogs, families, etc.

8. A lot of people here don't like that idea and are picking and choosing their arguments with various quotes from my posts. I LIKE PLAYING THERE. It's great to get out of my house, hang with other players, play pick-up games for free on painted tables and terrain and then leave when I'm done. Keeping the guy in business is a small price for me to pay so I don't have to worry about other things.

I would totally pay like $10/month to play at a store if they had quality tables with lots of terrain, *and* a portion of that money went towards the game. IE more terrain, events or whatnot. The store could even do stuff like offer free months for $x spent, or discounts for "joining" the club, or something.

I would not play at a place that made me pay markup for things bought elsewhere. I even buy my stuff from local stores, even though it's more expensive, because I don't want them closing down. I would definitely not play at a store that made me pay markup for buying stuff off fellow members of the community. I also don't like the idea of buying "time". I don't want to rush games to avoid paying more.

First off Pjota I do believe you found gamer heaven sir lol

Any who back to the original topic. Sounds to me like theirs something fishy going on at that store. I would get in touch with GW as to where store managers do have a lot of freedom to run the store there are rules and limitations. Last off I've been noticing this from what I read and hear about GW stores in Europe, and that is the level of service is crap. I'm sorry but I don't go to places where I feel taken advantage of and not appreciated as a customer. As my boss always says "You catch more Bees with Honey then ." (the S word)

One question...
Does the 'tables' money go through the till?

If it does, is he using it to siphon off stock, as the till balances at month-end? Or, is it all going to GW for 'brownie points'?
If not, GW might want a tip-off, as it'll likely be lining the manager's pockets.

My area is pretty lucky. We have a game store with a small demostration table divided into quarters with warmahordes, flames of war, 40k, and fantasy starter sets on display for demonstration games. There are three shelves with the latest releases and board games while the rest of the product is set up along the walls. 75% of the floor space is dedicated to free gaming tables that are pretty well set up with abundant terrain pieces the manager set up himself. I have never had any difficulty finding space for a game. They even have a area around the register where people pull up bar stools and paint.

It does pretty well, with a lot of loyal customers. I guess they realized that having happy hobbyists actually in the store showing how fun the entire can be would actually drive up sales.

I can't honestly believe some people would pay a mark up for something they collected from a different seller. That actually sickens me that someone would penalize someone for just trying to find a better deal or being a veteran collector. That's not how free enterprise works. It is in all regard a scam. He is profiting from another seller without having to go through the hassle of having and stocking the product. If I actually saw my FLGS tell someone that, I would have immediately packed my things and left because that is not a place that deserves my business.

pejota wrote:
. I'm also reluctant to go to the homes of the various local gamers for several reasons.

This just makes me want to hear some horror story's.

 Psy-Titan wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Wow wow wow... can they do that? i have never heard anything like this..then again our store aint that big... but we have gaming days but not open days we got clubs for that gotta hear with our manager about it. Where's this store you talking about?

I don't want to name the store specifically as I dont want to incurr the wrath of the manager who is actually a really nice guy but it is in a London borough here in England.

..hmmm... we play in a couple of London boroughs as well as Dark Sphere (who charge table rent of £3, which is a bargain).

Sadly, the gaming at our main GW store, which has a really nice manager, has more or less collapsed, from being pretty good. He also has some nerdy staff who complain once you've been on a table for an hour. We do buy from him, altho I'm certain he realises we only buy direct only sutff now (but hey, we've spent a fortune there in the past).

Really, I wouldn't mind paying if they had a decent league or campaign. But at a time when GW is under financial pressure, you'd think they'd develop a clear policy about playing at their stores.

pejota wrote:
My FLGS here in the states has a slightly similar policy.

If you buy stuff from him you can play on the tables for free. He also runs tournaments and special events but doesn't charge an entry fee.

If you buy stuff from the internet/ebay you have to pay to use the table OR pay his markup on the item as if you bought it from him. For example, a guy got a great deal on some sisters on ebay. After he paid the markup, he still paid less than if he bought them outright and the store owner was cool with him using them in the store.

HAHAHA that store owner is a thief That has to be like the biggest joke ever......hate to sound mean but if he told me I had to pay HIM for models I didn't buy off him I would tell him to recude his discount or else I am leaving. I never play at my FLGS I buy there 50% of the time and then 50% online.
He doesn't charge to play in the store and always runs demos of other games and the only thing he charges for is tournaments which the entrance fee is only $5 because there are prices at the end. He only has a 10% discount on GW stuff though but whatever.

 Psy-Titan wrote:
So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?

Is your store constantly packed? Do you have people who do nothing but sit there and never buy anything from the shop or constantly bemoan the prices from GW or try to steer customers to other retailers for even small things?

If so, then it's a kind of reasonable policy. It sucks that you're being punished for it...but I think the point isn't to have people being able to come in with their armies already bought from the shop and be able to call dibs on hobby tables/gaming tables without actually buying anything that day. Managers have to get creative sometimes when dealing with problems they're seeing in their shops.

I don't know how your GW is, but mine has paints for the hobby tables/painting demos and store copies of the army books that people can use.
We had a few people early on with the current manager who tried to abuse the way he set things up with the store copies of the army books whenever a new book came out.
So he made a rule that solved it. If you wanted to look through the store copy for more than five minutes, you could only do so in the corner where the books were located.
And then he moved where the books were located from near the hobby tables to the other side of the shop.
The people who were sometimes taking the only store copy of the book and sitting down for an hour reading the thing cover to cover, writing out an army list, etc stopped and either started buying the book that interested them or would read for a small amount and decide they didn't like the book.

 Psy-Titan wrote:
So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?

This did not happen.

We've had this exact thread before and it did not happen.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
It's a shame that they felt that this was the only they could get money out of the people who used their shop.

To have all these people playing with models worth hundreds of dollars which the store sees none of because of poor decisions that have most likely been made by the suits back at GeeDubs HQ must be awful.

Agree


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SRSFACE wrote:
Our FLGS has a free to play policy. And the owner is a super nice guy, so when he says "Hey cool to have you guys down here today! You guys should get some chips or soda while you play," it usually gets us more amicable guys to say "Sure!" I probably buy a Dr. Pepper out of their soda fridge every time I go down.

It's amazing how honesty helps so much with these kinds of stores. I bet this GW guy who implemented the pay to use the tables policy didn't realize he could still make 2 quid off anyone who goes in the store by selling them a Coke and Butterfinger while they were playing. Not only would the players not get upset at "highway robbery," they'd probably be glad to have snacks available in-store even at a markup rather than having to hit up a convenience store before coming.

Here in the UK there seems to be a rule against food and drink in every GW store for some reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Psy-Titan wrote:
So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?

This did not happen.

We've had this exact thread before and it did not happen.

Not quite sure what you mean but it is happening I can assure you. Straight from the managers mouth it begins this week.

My FLGS is really laid back. Me and a friend came in at 10 in the morning on a Tuesday and broke out our stuff once and nobody even said anything, but we got a few "regulars" in watching the battle at various points.

Of course my FLGS also is a model train/airplane store that has a secion for board and wargames, so I guess they stay in business whether we play for free or not.

Charging for table use is plain stupidity. They need to man up and hire some business men to save them from running their dying company into the ground.
*rant*

yukondal wrote:
Charging for table use is plain stupidity. They need to man up and hire some business men to save them from running their dying company into the ground.
*rant*

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Because "charging for table use" is completely unreasonable and can never be justified and is the sign of running a company into the ground.

 Psy-Titan wrote:
Here in the UK there seems to be a rule against food and drink in every GW store for some reason.

It's pretty standard for most stores in the UK, game or otherwise.
Not that anyone pays any attention to that, and sticky mitts get smeared all over stuff on the shelves.
As for why GW stores, you're using their tables and scenery, and spills cost them money.

It's about rewarding customers.
Rather than giving free reign to anyone buying elsewhere

Obviously there can be the occasional person who has bought the army ahead of time, I'd hope for a bit of common sense from the manager

ahzek wrote:
It's about rewarding customers.
Rather than giving free reign to anyone buying elsewhere

Obviously there can be the occasional person who has bought the army ahead of time, I'd hope for a bit of common sense from the manager

I would agree with this IF people were buying non GW models. Last time I checked to play in a GW store you need GW models or FW models. So if you really think about it in the scheme of things anyone who's buying GW models is a GW customer. Be it from a GW store or not. Now the way I see it GW stores are the public face of the company. If the manager of the store is pulling power moves and being a nazi about his play space then if I didn't know better I would assume that's the attitude of the whole company.

I've personally had nothing but positive experiences with GW. They always seem to want to put the customer first, and every store I've gone to has been all about people playing in the store even if they didn't buy anything that day because it's FREE advertisement to any new customers walking in.

It really comes down to "What the market will bear."

If the area is short on war gaming table space (mainly apartment complexes, no other hobby stores in area) you could get away with a members fee or the more obvious and irritating table rental / product buy.

A small business needs to feed the owner and pay any other wages. At a bar you pay for drinks and put money into the pool table (in some) so some thought along those lines are understandable.

On "Magic Night" I would get snacks, food and drink and hire a pretty waitress (yes, could be viewed as sexist but I used to waiter and the pretty waitresses brought the men in by the horde) for the night to bring everything to the players and I would expect a full house. Then when word gets around, start up the 40k group with the same setup.

I have been to clubs/stores that rented out locker space for player's stuff which was awesome. It is all about supplying a service people think little about paying for.

Stop giving that store your business op. Do not help set that precedent.

Fairly recently my local gw , shut down its 4 tables in favour of 1 table just used for beginners, I asked the manager why and he said it did nothing for the shop to keep them there.

Iv ended up spending a lot less in the store, I don't spend as much time there really now so it just makes sense to order from a discount. Maybe it worked and there making more money, though I think a lot of people feel shunted with the attitude of "your welcome to come in, buy something, chat for 5 mins then its time for you to move along"

One thing is that GW also likes your name in their system so the manager punching in your sale can see what you had bought from them.

Getting you to buy right at the beginning can allow them to gauge if you are worth having hang around.

 Psy-Titan wrote:
So my local GW just started a new policy whereby you have to spend £10 for every 2 hours you want to spend in the store- whether it be using a table for a game or just modelling/painting. As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed. I like to use the tables for gaming and painting because it makes the hobby more social, and besides that, there is the fact I've been buying models from GW for 20 years now and apparently that counts for nothing and I'm effectively banned from the store unless I buy more stuff. I should have my own seat! Anyone else experienced this policy and what do you think about it?

Well I would be fine with paying for table use in principle. And I'm fine with the idea of getting table time gratis with purchases so that those who buy get to use it without additional cost and those who don't buy, pay a small fee in lieu. In principle I think it's good because it makes table space more of a priority and also discourages wasting table time by those who just want to linger around not properly gaming.

But in this instance? £10 minimum spend is rather high, two hours is a niggardly amount to get in return and if that's just a table to paint on its ridiculous. If its to be an incentive to spend money there it needs to be a really good table with really good terrain. The sort of thing most people couldn't have for themselves.

Growing up, my local FLGS made gamers sign in. And on Friday and Saturdays it cost $1 to hang out there even if you weren't gaming. Why? Probably to keep track of who was there if anything got trashed, and then to charge a little to offset the cost of maintenance and clean up costs. There was a "club" too where regulars could pay an annual fee that was considerably cheaper.

GW will eventually charge for you to enter the store. I am 100% serious. Give it a few years.

 Harriticus wrote:
GW will eventually charge for you to enter the store. I am 100% serious. Give it a few years.

A lot of the time if someone isn't buying they are encouraged to leave, usually in a semi nice yet passive aggressive way.

Personnaly, I always wondered why stores let people play for free. I've always been even more astounded that they would provide you paint for free. From the client's perspective, its great, but it doesn't seem like a rational business decision. I mean, I guess it attracts people in, but would it really kill off traffic if they charged a small fee to use the tables? Or to "borrow" the paint sets? Nobody is particularly suprised at having to rent pool table in a pool hall, so why would it be unthinkable to have to rent out your 40k table/paint?

 DarkWind wrote:

ahzek wrote:
It's about rewarding customers.
Rather than giving free reign to anyone buying elsewhere

Obviously there can be the occasional person who has bought the army ahead of time, I'd hope for a bit of common sense from the manager

I would agree with this IF people were buying non GW models. Last time I checked to play in a GW store you need GW models or FW models. So if you really think about it in the scheme of things anyone who's buying GW models is a GW customer. Be it from a GW store or not. Now the way I see it GW stores are the public face of the company. If the manager of the store is pulling power moves and being a nazi about his play space then if I didn't know better I would assume that's the attitude of the whole company.

I've personally had nothing but positive experiences with GW. They always seem to want to put the customer first, and every store I've gone to has been all about people playing in the store even if they didn't buy anything that day because it's FREE advertisement to any new customers walking in.

Yep this post sums up my feelings pretty well. From reading all these replies it seems very much like GW's attitude to its customers in the states are far better than here in the UK.