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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4wNKbilOas

 Elgrun wrote:
I remember when some 15 year old ish kid came in after school to look around, was asked to leave and tried to protest he was just looking at stuff, the staff guy just stared him down and told him to go home, he ended up walking out crying.

while we're all enjoying an anti-GW clusterfeth, Hivefleet Jr was playing in a local GW store, and he heard one obnoxious, pony-tailed assistant boasting how he hated children and had chucked out a 13-year old kid in a wheelchair who protested his mom was meeting him later and he had nowehre to go!!


(For full disclosure, the manager is a sweetheart, and seems to accept the mysterious appearance of new troops that come from the discount store donw the road, while we buy the odd cheaper or Direct ONly item from him. )

.

A system run by people can always run afoul of people's prejudices.

The only way to get rid of those nasty moments of people taking liberties is to have "secret shoppers" to evaluate the environment and how the sales staff conduct themselves. Audits are necessary to ensure systems are working properly.

This is the only way I could see GW staff to be corrected in bad behavior and non-standard store policies.

Plus it would be so easy to pose as a slightly confused parent looking for a "nice" hobby for your kid and looking into all the resources available to them.

Too bad about child employment law, would love to send in a slightly ill behaved 10 year old and see what happens.

loki old fart wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.

Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.

Skriker

Did he? where? link it

I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.

Skriker

I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.

Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.

I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.

Pretty shoddy customer service if true...

 scottmmmm wrote:

loki old fart wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.

Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.

Skriker

Did he? where? link it

I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.

Skriker

I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.

Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.

I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.

Pretty shoddy customer service if true...

The post only suggests it, nowhere does he say for certain that he bought those 4000 pts of models in that shop.

I can't help thinking this is a troll thread.

Shop owners don't care about sells that were already done by you , only for the sales you can make in the future.

 Wilytank wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Do the charge the MTG players and so forth or is it only the wargamers? That would be something to find out.

Wizards, unlike GW, has sanctioned events though (FNM and such) with entry fees and such and tend to draw in plenty of players regardless with some prize support thrown in too (promo cards, free boosters, etc.) They probably make enough money from that.

Also, unlike Warhammer, MTG is a much more portable game that can be played almost anywhere. Playing in the store is just as viable as playing in the food court in the mall.

Table us is table use whether its 40k, MTG, painting or eating lunch. The end result is a table is being used. That means how much MTG sells is not relevant.

loki old fart wrote:

 scottmmmm wrote:

loki old fart wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

 Skriker wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
The OP stated that he had 4000 points of army to paint. Did he buy them from there.? Anybody ask ? besides me.

Pretty early on he said that he had recently bought all of those minis at the store in question and was miffed because he was being given grief about not buying something "today" to be able to play on the tables. That would annoy me as well.

Skriker

Did he? where? link it

I recalled reading it early on...sorry if you want to see the post, then feel free to go through all the thread and find it, as I don't have time to do it for you.

Skriker

I think that's because you can't. Because he never actually said where he bought them from.

Psy-Titan wrote: As someone who is in the process of building up the 4000pts worth of models which I have already bought and so will not be receiving this store credit I am pretty annoyed.

I think it's implied by this sentence. The mention of store credit suggests that he/she bought the models there and won't have back-dated time in the store to account for that.

Pretty shoddy customer service if true...

The post only suggests it, nowhere does he say for certain that he bought those 4000 pts of models in that shop.

I can't help thinking this is a troll thread.

Of course it doesn't say it with certainty, but I think it suggests it very heavily.

Makumba wrote:Shop owners don't care about sells that were already done by you , only for the sales you can make in the future.

I agree - which is why this is a ridiculous policy. Why would anyone go back to a company that treats their customers like this? This thread alone is reason enough to avoid this policy.

 insaniak wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.

So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.

I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...

The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.

I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.

I have noticed a disturbing trend recently (One which did effect me, but then receded) where Games Workshop 'hobby centers' have simply became Games Workshop 'stores'. Luckily my manager is a great guy and lets us stay as long as we want, use tables freely and without pre-booking (But if you pre-book then you get residence) and use the painting stations. But there was a short amount of time where we had a substitute manager who instantly ejected half of the customers by saying only pre-booked games (booked at least 1 day in advance) and if you weren't playing or painting (for which you had to buy something) you had to leave. That store was a ghost town for the 3 weeks we had him, and the store got together to throw our old manager a welcome back party when he came back.

I honestly wouldn't mind paying a fee for tables, but since i am a young teen with no income, it would mean instead of spending £30 a month on models i would likely only spend £10 on tables and maybe buy some models every two months. It would also put an even higher buy in to the hobby discouraging new players. I love my store, it seems to be a dying breed. Long live the GW Hobby Center![i]

 Psienesis wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.

So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.

I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...

The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.

I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.

AH. So now we're linking 'not wanting to pay for a table' with 'not wanting to be in a store' with 'being TFG' with having poor hygiene...?


Maybe we can add that charging for tables will mean fewer people showing up in fluffy bunny slippers while you're just stereotyping people at random...

AH. So now we're linking 'not wanting to pay for a table' with 'not wanting to be in a store' with 'being TFG' with having poor hygiene...?

That is more or less the standard thing you accuse opponents about . They are dirty , ergo low class , not realy our kind of people as our people are pure . they are the worse of the worse , which is best symbolised with accusations of canibalism .
our dudes are the good non paying guys , freedom for all , friendly etc and the other side is TFG WAAC baby eating unwashed ruffians at best.

That is more or less the standard thing you accuse opponents about . They are dirty , ergo low class , not realy our kind of people as our people are pure . they are the worse of the worse , which is best symbolised with accusations of canibalism .
our dudes are the good non paying guys , freedom for all , friendly etc and the other side is TFG WAAC baby eating unwashed ruffians at best.

Maybe this is my youth showing, but this reminds me inexplicably of Pocahontas!




Maybe in each store they could have a deodorant vending machine, or better yet, just a Vending Machine! I am sure that would bring in more customers, you catch more bee's with Maltesers then with Tax's.

Charging for tables is ridiculous. You want your customers/fans of gaming to hang out in the stores. People who are pro-gaming is free advertisement. If I'm hanging out at the game store playing a game...I'd pause to talk to curious people and be a proponent for the game. It's always great if there is a possibility of future people to game against.

Stores should sell drinks / snacks. Us gamers who hang out get thirsty...easy extra few bucks.

If funds / work needs to be done on table, I'm sure people would donate their time to build / work on tables or donate terrain. I'd donate terrain, it's not an issue.

In the end, you want loyal customers who are happy. I drive out of my way and spend my gas to shop at my local game store because I want to fuel the hobby.

Stores can't get mad if you show up with an army and have never seen you. I've been in the Army since 1998, and move a gak ton. I've also been playing GW games since 1996....so I have also a gak ton of their stuff.

The FLGS where I'm currently at is great. 20% off GW stuff. Also tourney / events have a $10 fee...but all costs go to prizes. More players = more stuff to give out, they don't pocket any of it.

I get that people don't like the idea of paying for something that has historically generally been free... but I don't really see that charging for gaming tables is ultimately any more ridiculous than, say, a Pool Hall charging for the use of their tables.

Yes, having people in the store playing can be a good drawcard, and that's why stores do it. But whether or not just having people playing in the store is enough to pay for itself is going to depend entirely on the local players and their spending habits.

So if having those tables isn't doing anything appreciable to boost sales, then charging for their use is a sensible option. Just as players aren't obligated to spend money if they make use of a service offered for no charge, a store is not obligated to provide players with free gaming space.

 Psienesis wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.

So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.

I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...

The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.

I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.

TFG is more than willing to buy something small for the privilege of siting there for 9 hours and tormenting others. Especially, if he can force you to pay to play or snitch on you for not buying anything if you disagree with him on something.

 insaniak wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Having free/open tables might also attract the.... let's call them the "less savory"... elements of the wargaming culture. You know the ones I mean. The ones who, after they've been in the store 10 minutes, have driven everyone else in a two-block radius away.

So I can understand having a table fee, if only to discourage these kinds of TFGs.

I'm curious as to what leads you to link not wanting to be in a store that charges for its tables with poor hygene...

The reason they start charging people to use the tables prevents TFG from sitting there for 9 hours.

I'm honestly not quite sure how that was a difficult conclusion to draw.

AH. So now we're linking 'not wanting to pay for a table' with 'not wanting to be in a store' with 'being TFG' with having poor hygiene...?


Maybe we can add that charging for tables will mean fewer people showing up in fluffy bunny slippers while you're just stereotyping people at random...

FFS, are you being purposefully obtuse?

I am not talking about the OP, I'm speaking directly about why a store owner/operator might apply a charge to use the tables in his store. Since I don't know the store in question, I can only draw conclusions on the many stores in my local area that I've been in, and, yes, there have definitely been some rank-ass people up in them bishes.

So maybe the store owner, instead of wanting to confront the not-the-fething-OP guy/gal directly with "yo, dude/dudette, wash your ass before you come in here. Also, Right Guard. Make it happen" he instead says, "Uh, guys, I need to start charging for the table space, because otherwise I could use this to put shelves to stock more merchandise that sells better than these things do" but what he is really doing is taxing TFGs for being TFGs in his store.... as well as potential TFGs and everyone else, because then it has the appearance of fairness, and he doesn't have to deal with the TFG whinefest.

Hell, maybe the storeowner is a different variant of TFG, the one that has just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but doesn't really know his gak all that well, and he's intimidated by the lore-mastery of the usual gang of players that have been hanging out in his shop, and because he judges his masculine worth by this, he decides to start charging for tables, because then all these lore-goons will get butthurt and leave.

 insaniak wrote:
I get that people don't like the idea of paying for something that has historically generally been free... but I don't really see that charging for gaming tables is ultimately any more ridiculous than, say, a Pool Hall charging for the use of their tables.

Yes, having people in the store playing can be a good drawcard, and that's why stores do it. But whether or not just having people playing in the store is enough to pay for itself is going to depend entirely on the local players and their spending habits.

So if having those tables isn't doing anything appreciable to boost sales, then charging for their use is a sensible option. Just as players aren't obligated to spend money if they make use of a service offered for no charge, a store is not obligated to provide players with free gaming space.

What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price. As to where a GW "hobby center" sells products that are it's primary source of income. Then they start charging you extra to come back and give them advertisement as to what you can do with the for mentioned product. That's just giving you the knife their going to cut you with.

So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? That's the problem it's not so much the fact that they are charging it's the fact that they are kicking their loyal customers in the rear.

Psienesis wrote:So maybe the store owner, instead of wanting to confront the not-the-fething-OP guy/gal directly with "yo, dude/dudette, wash your ass before you come in here. Also, Right Guard. Make it happen" he instead says, "Uh, guys, I need to start charging for the table space, because otherwise I could use this to put shelves to stock more merchandise that sells better than these things do" but what he is really doing is taxing TFGs for being TFGs in his store.... as well as potential TFGs and everyone else, because then it has the appearance of fairness, and he doesn't have to deal with the TFG whinefest.

Yes, I got that this was what you were saying the first time. It still doesn't make any sense when you repeat it.

You have apparently arbitrarily decided that people with poor hygiene are TFGs who will refuse to pay for table space. Which is just an absolutely bizarre thing to say.

DarkWind wrote:What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price.

No, I understand the difference between a pool hall and a gaming store. The thing is, the only reason the gaming store isn't in the business of renting out their tables is that they choose to not do so.

So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? .

No. The store isn't the only place on the planet that the game can be played.

But you could make the same argument about anything... I just spent $300 on a squash racquet from his store, and now the court owner wants me to pay to play on his court? Madness, I tells you!

 insaniak wrote:

So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? .

No. The store isn't the only place on the planet that the game can be played.

But you could make the same argument about anything... I just spent $300 on a squash racquet from his store, and now the court owner wants me to pay to play on his court? Madness, I tells you!

Yes but I'm sure the guy running the court isn't a part of a multinational company. As I said in a past post I could understand a locally owned store charging, but were talking about a GW store. A company that prides it's self on it's model sales from "mouth to mouth" advertisement wants to charge you to give them physical advertisement? Just seems like a double standard. Help us expand our product, but if you want to play our game in our store possibly bringing new players into the game give us money.

 DarkWind wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
I get that people don't like the idea of paying for something that has historically generally been free... but I don't really see that charging for gaming tables is ultimately any more ridiculous than, say, a Pool Hall charging for the use of their tables.

Yes, having people in the store playing can be a good drawcard, and that's why stores do it. But whether or not just having people playing in the store is enough to pay for itself is going to depend entirely on the local players and their spending habits.

So if having those tables isn't doing anything appreciable to boost sales, then charging for their use is a sensible option. Just as players aren't obligated to spend money if they make use of a service offered for no charge, a store is not obligated to provide players with free gaming space.

What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price. As to where a GW "hobby center" sells products that are it's primary source of income. Then they start charging you extra to come back and give them advertisement as to what you can do with the for mentioned product. That's just giving you the knife their going to cut you with.

I dunno about you, but most pool halls I go to, I spend more money on booze and stuff than the actual table (though there is some around that charge a ton for the use of the table as well). Or a pub with a pool table, they'll make an order of magnitude more off me with alcohol in a night than the use of the table.

But then GW aren't really like either of those, because a pub is constantly selling you stuff, a hobby store can't expect to constantly be selling you stuff. Once I've bought my models, bought my paints and I already have the tools... really I have no need to buy anything from the hobby store (unless they sell food/drink).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
But then GW aren't really like either of those, because a pub is constantly selling you stuff, a hobby store can't expect to constantly be selling you stuff. Once I've bought my models, bought my paints and I already have the tools... really I have no need to buy anything from the hobby store (unless they sell food/drink).

That's why a good gaming venue should have a bar...

If my FLGS (which isn't that local) had booze, they'd make a ton of money off me

That's shameful disrespect on the customers...
My choice would propably be to boycott the store and find another place to play in.

 DarkWind wrote:


What you not thinking about here is that a Pool Hall doesn't sell the Pool Tables, but their business is renting the Pool Table out to you for an hour or so for a small price. As to where a GW "hobby center" sells products that are it's primary source of income. Then they start charging you extra to come back and give them advertisement as to what you can do with the for mentioned product. That's just giving you the knife their going to cut you with.

So after I have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars at their store in the past I not have to shell out extra to play!? That's the problem it's not so much the fact that they are charging it's the fact that they are kicking their loyal customers in the rear.

And the shops that sell pool cues, don't have tables to play on. The two are not necessarily linked, because you provide a product, you do not have to provide a place to play

Drawing analogies with restaurants, pubs, pool halls, gyms, it's all pretty meaningless.

Table top gaming is largely unique in that you buy a bunch of models, take them home, spend weeks if not months painting them, then come back some time later to actually play a game. Once you have your army you have it, you may very well not have to buy anything new for years.

It's not like a restaurant or pub where you go buy something and consume it immediately on the premises. It's not like a gym where you are specifically going there to use the equipment and you aren't actually buying anything.

Trying to draw parallels is a bit meaningless IMO.

I would never pay to use tables, however, I can kind of understand the need to do something on the part of the manager. Chances are he had to pay for the table(s), and typically there is GW terrain all over them, and thats out of someone's pocket. So if everyone is showing up with stuff bought from Ebay then they are just using him and he gets screwed.

On the other hand, you need to promote the hobby and if you dont provide a place to play, then people will look elsewhere and thats even fewer people coming into your store.

Seems like you are screwed either way, and its no wonder gaming stores don't last long.

I've seen tht TFG and oor hygiene players are more than willing to pay for tables. Much more so than normal loyal customers. Possibly becaus they dont spend money on store product or soap. That leaves TFG in charge right behind the storeowner as they are paying to rent the tables and willing to lord it over others who want to use them.

I'm in England around the Cambridge area and I never have to pay...

This poor hygiene thing... I mean people are talking about smell right? I really can't imagine this being an issue for 99% of fanbase's , why does it have to be one for ours?

Seems like there's a plague of these people looking at some of these posts.... Honestly if you can't respect people enough to pick up a bar of soap everyday then I'm fine with kicking them out.