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 throwoff wrote:
More the effort of tracking down enough autoguns than anything else, with the weapons options you get in a marine squad etc now I couldn't see it being too much difficulty for GW to add a dozen autoguns to a guard squad sprue.

If I did want to play with it though I would like to see the autogun readded to the rule book, personally I would see it as 'assault' rather than rapid fire.

The backwater guard army has been my 'fantasy' army for a long long time, I will do it eventually!

Fair enough. Although there are innumerable third parties producing autogun like models I can certainly see why in-box ones would be desirable.

You do know that the autogun is in the main rulebook right? Chaos Cultists use it, and it's stats are identical to the lasgun. So it'll take a little bit more than a new guard codex to differentiate them.

The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

Lol, if your guard play like mine, you'd use less then 50 rounds per engagement total. They more or less score and die. Its the other weapons that matter.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

Unless they use some kind of air rifle and are given huge chunks of lead to melt into their own bullets. Also the imperial guard has gone to great legnths to preserve the cultures and fighting styles of each planet. There could be millions of reasons why, it could be part of the religion of that planet for example. Or they simply lack the tech to have lasguns (as happened a few times in gaunts ghosts) and so on.

I mean, if guard can use bows and arrows, they can use guns too.

Beastsofwar web site has pictures...... very cool

 pongo50 wrote:
Beastsofwar web site has pictures...... very cool

Of what lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pongo50 wrote:
Beastsofwar web site has pictures...... very cool

Of what lol.

I got all excited.


http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/towering-knights-horizon-warhammer-40000/

Just Knights. *Sigh*. I'm going to be mega-depressed if IG isn't coming and we've got another "Codex Orks soon!" hoax ala August/September over October.

Imperial knights...Talk of Titan codex!

Speculation with WD every week we may not have to wait for Monthly releases...Weekly releases?

 pongo50 wrote:
Imperial knights...Talk of Titan codex!

Not Titans.... Now that can has been opened....

Also, not guard whatsoever.

Like here?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/579689.page#6537265

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.

I always thought conscripts should have stub guns or some such rubbish....You know, to reflect user quality

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

Lol, if your guard play like mine, you'd use less then 50 rounds per engagement total. They more or less score and die. Its the other weapons that matter.

The values for shots in the tabletop game don't reflect the number of shots in the virtual simulation, I've figured. Otherwise it would make no sense if a Bolter is fired at the same rate as something like a manually loaded Missile Launcher at mid range.

Instead, they probably represent the effect of a prolonged burst of fire, with the slow rate of fire weapons representing multiple shots.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

Lol, if your guard play like mine, you'd use less then 50 rounds per engagement total. They more or less score and die. Its the other weapons that matter.

The values for shots in the tabletop game don't reflect the number of shots in the virtual simulation, I've figured. Otherwise it would make no sense if a Bolter is fired at the same rate as something like a manually loaded Missile Launcher at mid range.

Instead, they probably represent the effect of a prolonged burst of fire, with the slow rate of fire weapons representing multiple shots.

Trouble with that is it makes no sense when you read individual weapon profiles then look at the rules they have. A bolter for example is 180 degrees in the wrong direction rules wise from it's background.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.

The difference is, that's a PDF. There would be more, pre-made munition stores set up around areas of conflict, the supply lanes are more secure as they know the landscape better and probably have a more entrenched rear, and they don't need to worry about fitting the ammo onto dropships or transporting it to a planet.

Off-world, it wouldn't be viable. Simple as.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.

The difference is, that's a PDF. There would be more, pre-made munition stores set up around areas of conflict, the supply lanes are more secure as they know the landscape better and probably have a more entrenched rear, and they don't need to worry about fitting the ammo onto dropships or transporting it to a planet.

Off-world, it wouldn't be viable. Simple as.

This is another example where NOTHING in 40k is really viable. Simply put, no Guard regiment would make sense logistically in a campaign off world from their base of operations. Fuel would be a bigger issue then ammo, trust me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.

For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.

On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.

Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.

In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.

The difference is, that's a PDF. There would be more, pre-made munition stores set up around areas of conflict, the supply lanes are more secure as they know the landscape better and probably have a more entrenched rear, and they don't need to worry about fitting the ammo onto dropships or transporting it to a planet.

Off-world, it wouldn't be viable. Simple as.

This is another example where NOTHING in 40k is really viable. Simply put, no Guard regiment would make sense logistically in a campaign off world from their base of operations. Fuel would be a bigger issue then ammo, trust me.

Go ahead and elaborate, I'm all ears, I don't see a great problem with the overall logistics of an IG regiment that couldn't be solved by 40 millenniums of advancement.

The novel Gunheads goes about fairly well. In that, the task force throws down a prefabricated FOB at the primary drop site, each company has its own half-tracks and supply vehicles, and they reclaim 3 more positions as forward bases where logistics is also managed from. A section of Tech Priests and IG engineers perform maintenance on every vehicle, the former presumably by magic given the descriptions in the overall universe.

When the water runs out, they get the men to drink their own urine, which happens at the beginning when the Gunheads Armoured Company is on an isolated slog.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

If your whole company of say, Tallarns, opens fire in their ambush at a forward patrol, it isn't going to matter a toss even if they can see the Lasgun trails, as the cracks of stubber fire going off and the subsequent corpses is going to be just as indicative that sunshine and rainbows aren't ahead.

If anything, having less volume to each shot is better than greater visibility as with a stealth unit where the objective is to maintain stealth, you're going to aim to kill each man capable of observing his buddies get capped before they can raise an alarm. With the men elsewhere in a position without line of sight being less able to hear the hisses of Lasgun fire, that's probably better.

40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

I also find it amusing that "magic" is a valid answer to some problems for you, but not others.

That said I am not trying to be snipped or rude to you. just offering argument as to how auto guns are fine.

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.

Yeah, with Admech magic, that's more of a general 40k plothole that can't really be explained given the fact that tech of the 40k universe functions differently, and as its Sci-Fi you have to suspend your belief on that level.

Thankfully, today we don't have to contend with machine spirits, though my mother's ink printer would suggest otherwise.

Also, not trying to be rude and not taking what you're saying as rude. Consequence of speaking with just text.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Tactics arent out of date if they fit the times. (funnily enough).

IG tanks run on anything, be it trees or bodies.

Who knows what are on the ships that supply these forces. They could manifacture goods in the fleet if need be.


Possibilities are endless. in. 40K.

How do you think countries invaded each other and kept supply lines with sail ships and black powder guns? with a lot of planning thats how. I imagine they couldnt send an email to request goods that would arrive weeks later. Just like the guard.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.

Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Tactics arent out of date if they fit the times. (funnily enough).

IG tanks run on anything, be it trees or bodies.

Who knows what are on the ships that supply these forces. They could manifacture goods in the fleet if need be.


Possibilities are endless. in. 40K.

How do you think countries invaded each other and kept supply lines with sail ships and black powder guns? with a lot of planning thats how. I imagine they couldnt send an email to request goods that would arrive weeks later. Just like the guard.

That was my point, you missed it. I was demonstrating that suspension of disbelief was already required so why say autoguns are impractical. I wasn't very poignant though.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.

Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.

The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.

All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.

I was agreeing, but didnt really agree well haha, yea I agree.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.

Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.

As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?

Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.

The Long Las, again, is still a double edged sword. The boom of a ballistic projectile from a sniper rifle is going to alert the enemy regardless, as is the muzzle flash.

While the short duration Las Beam may give a greater hint as to where the shot originated (you're not going to trace it with your eyes to the exact point anyway just as Joe Schmoe got killed in your coffee break)), its going to emit far less sound and probably be more lethal. A Lasbeam hitting you in an unprotected area cooks your internal organs, an oversized stubber shell will at best rip a limb off if you're very lucky, and even then the target could survive given such innovations as medical gel.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.

Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.

The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.

All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.

Again, you missed the bigger picture and point. Their is seriously so much nonsense and space magic and holes in the canon and fluff, multiplied by countless reginments and doctrines in innumerable environments that it is silly to argue that autoguns can't make sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.

Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.

As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?

Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.

SM scouts want a word with you. And no suppressors are laughably easy top make even now, and cheaply. You also keep ignoring the fact that regiments already exist that use autoguns. You also ignore the point I am making that they can have a place, not that they should replace lasguns. BOTH CAN EXIST. Did you finally gather that part?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.

Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.

As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?

Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.

The Long Las, again, is still a double edged sword. The boom of a ballistic projectile from a sniper rifle is going to alert the enemy regardless, as is the muzzle flash.

While the short duration Las Beam may give a greater hint as to where the shot originated (you're not going to trace it with your eyes to the exact point anyway just as Joe Schmoe got killed in your coffee break)), its going to emit far less sound and probably be more lethal. A Lasbeam hitting you in an unprotected area cooks your internal organs, an oversized stubber shell will at best rip a limb off if you're very lucky, and even then the target could survive given such innovations as medical gel.

Long barrels rifles don't present the muzzle flash your suggesting. The noise at such range is also nearly impossible to pinpoint. Have you ever owned or shot firearms?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.

Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.

The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.

All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.

Again, you missed the bigger picture and point. Their is seriously so much nonsense and space magic and holes in the canon and fluff, multiplied by countless reginments and doctrines in innumerable environments that it is silly to argue that autoguns can't make sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.

Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.

As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?

Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.

SM scouts want a word with you. And no suppressors are laughably easy top make even now, and cheaply. You also keep ignoring the fact that regiments already exist that use autoguns. You also ignore the point I am making that they can have a place, not that they should replace lasguns. BOTH CAN EXIST. Did you finally gather that part?

They're Space Marines, given some of the best equipment in the entire Imperium.

All sanctioned tech in 40k has to be an STC or proven to be of Old Terra iirc, the latter of which probably doesn't apply at all here because of the distance of a back-water planet and the lack of evidence they'd be able to accumulate, nevermind not having the Tech in the first place.

The Mechanicus isn't going to give you or produce for you an STC that probably doesn't even exist or is reserved for Space Marines only just so you can orchestrate a logistical horror.

Given to Regiments that operate, at any point, off their Home World, they're not practical and shouldn't co-exist with Lasguns, because the moment anyone with a pair of braincells to rub together realises what a waste of resources and what a flaw in logic they're exercising they're going to get their standard issue cheapo 40k AK-47's, one can bet.

Have they changed things to the extent that the Ad Mech produce every damn thing in the Imperium?

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.

Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.

Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.

The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.

All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.

Again, you missed the bigger picture and point. Their is seriously so much nonsense and space magic and holes in the canon and fluff, multiplied by countless reginments and doctrines in innumerable environments that it is silly to argue that autoguns can't make sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.

Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.

From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.

Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.

As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?

Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.

SM scouts want a word with you. And no suppressors are laughably easy top make even now, and cheaply. You also keep ignoring the fact that regiments already exist that use autoguns. You also ignore the point I am making that they can have a place, not that they should replace lasguns. BOTH CAN EXIST. Did you finally gather that part?

They're Space Marines, given some of the best equipment in the entire Imperium.

All sanctioned tech in 40k has to be an STC or proven to be of Old Terra iirc, the latter of which probably doesn't apply at all here because of the distance of a back-water planet and the lack of evidence they'd be able to accumulate, nevermind not having the Tech in the first place.

The Mechanicus isn't going to give you an STC that probably doesn't even exist or is reserved for Space Marines only just so you can orchestrate a logistical horror.

Given to Regiments that operate, at any point, off their Home World, they're not practical and shouldn't co-exist with Lasguns, because the moment anyone with a pair of braincells to rub together realises what a waste of resources and what a flaw in logic they're exercising they're going to get their standard issue cheapo 40k AK-47's, one can bet.

Really no need to get hostile. Maybe I misread that though, but either way I think you need to realize this is a fantasy game with impossible things in it already. So the amount of real world reasoning you are applying is a double edged sword. Your telling me logistically autoguns can't work. Yet in the same breath that space magic is used by the tech priests Lasguns don't make sense physically either for that matter.

Realistically they would never use infantry. Why on earth would you if you had transwarp technology and spacecraft. Jesus we use drones today, why wouldn't they use air craft and drones. Don't even tell me they don't have drones because my servo skulls say otherwise.

Mind taking the lasgun vs autogun and logistics to the background thread? It's fairly interesting, but not news or rumors in any way.