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This test run woudl be to produce somethign useful for general fantasy and not at all related to the new project. And yes it would need to be something that I could go on to sell as a regular item.

I've been lurking on these boards for years but just registered so I could join in on this discussion as I'm super excited for Tre's super duper secret project.

Regarding a KS test - I think this is the right way to start. New manufacturer, (I'm assuming) overseas production, new material, there will be a lot of first time challenges on this project, so a small test kit would be a good way to start so that you can get experience with this type of production before moving on to the super duper secret project. My wife works in product development (not for miniatures unfortunately) with Asian contractors, they work from CAD files sent electronically but the designers still need to see production samples shipped from Asia back to the US before the move into production. Takes time, especially if the sample needs revision. Then when production commences you have to work around things like Chinese New Year and worry about deliveries stuck in customs. It is a lot to manage.

I think something useful for general fantasy is the right way to go. I would like to see general fantasy adventurers, something useful for anyone running a traditional fantasy campaign. Iconic classes like fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric but in Tre's style. And of course at least one barbarian. I'm thinking like Tre's Reaper stuff but in hard PVC. And PVC is not a bad medium, when done well the details are great. I just picked up the new plastic PP Kriel Warriors and these are beautiful minis - PP has learned from previous kits, whereas the Fellblades had mold lines cutting across faces and other details, the Kriel Warriors have their heads all facing into the mold. There is still a mold line but it is on the side of the face and easy to remove (the trick is to carve like if you were carving something out of wood, not to scrape like ABS plastic). I'm sure Tre's stuff will be fantastic in PVC.

Edit: I had more to say!

Nice post, Mike! I like everything you said there but I'd love to see some monsters in the mix, too - Tre's take on them could be very interesting. And I think people could feel very confident about how they would look in pvc, which helps with folks backing.

Is this the kind of thing where there'd be a single pledge level for a whole set of minis, or would you want to / be able to break them out as separate items?

 RiTides wrote:
I assume anything cast here could be made usable for the new game - it definitely would make sense to do so. However, going with things that people might have another use for in the interim (monsters and adventurers) also helps, as long as it doesn't restrict your creativity / process.

Sure, but you can't cast more of one part in that tool than of another, so one of each faction seems like a risky idea.

the armoured aenglish sound like a lovely boxed set for example - few people will mind buying a full set from a tool like that. If it's one model from each faction, chances are many potential customers will only like 1/3-1/2 of the set and that can torpedo the perceived value right quick.

Yes, this will be a singular boxed set kind of deal. One to four pledges levels depending on the theme. One pledge level if I am producing characters or uniques and more than one pledge level if I do rank and file to allow people to buy multiple sets.

And thanks Mike!

You're right, Bolognesus - I was mixing idea in the post you quoted, but I do like the idea of adventurers / monsters that could be used by people for many things... I think Tre wants this separate from his upcoming project and that works fine for something like that.

I don't think something like the Aenglish makes as much sense, though - I think you'd want characters that could be used by people for RPGs or the like, and the same would go for any monsters.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing things develop! And also to seeing the last KS get sent to casting, seems very close to that point now

It would seem to me a solid box of armoured human fantasy guard would have a bigger market with less competition vs. a box of adventurers (of course me hoping for those Aenglish has nothing to do with it )

I figured the tool would produce 4 or so single models, not necessarily a boxed set. Like 1 alternate sculpt of a fairly core model for each army. Sell them individually later to the various audiences.

Granted, you could end up with 2 of the models being popular while 2 are not, and thus a big pile of extras, and that could be a big problem after a while. But unless some of the factions really are so super unique that no one would want them for other games (which is hard for me to imagine, but I love me some counts-as) it seems unlikely to work out that some out of the output from the mold is unsellable.

Yeah I'm up for any of it . I think Tre works best when inspired, so hopefully lightning strikes him for something that he'd like to see in his first PVC mold

 Taarnak wrote:

 tre manor wrote:
duly noted Wobble.

Yen I will definitely have the sculpts finished before launching the KS and have a quote from the manufacturer in hand as well.

Also, seriously, consider making the figures a little larger. It should help with the PVC and your sales.

~Eric

I agree here. Your figures are beautiful, but do run a wee bit small. Would you be open to making them a little bigger? (not much, like half-a-head's height perhaps?)

I'll also play the devil's advocate and lobby for a 'test run' KS of entirely or mostly humanoid monsters. From the RPG angle, there's a glut of heroes out there on the market (particularly after the Reaper Bones KSs) but a set of orcs, goblins, or some other such minions would make an excellent addition to any dungeon master's collection, particularly as nice as I know you can make 'em. This might also give you the option to play a bit with scale. Orcs and goblins (just to carry on with that example) can be of various sizes, but are still humanoid, so you can see how they'd look, and how they might size up if they were human (or human-ish) heroes and troops.

Yes, please please sculpt them about 10-15% larger than normal, and they will come out about right in PVC. Some nice generic human or elf soldiers would doubtlessly do well.

In fact, I think that some barbarian types would do even better. There are no barbarian infantry that are both a) decent sculpts and b) affordable enough for a mass battle game available. GW Marauders are neither. The Warlord Celts are OK sculpts, but pretty stinking bland (and small) for fantasy gaming. Not really much else out there.

Some cool PVC barbarians, or some freaking samurai. There's like one plastic samurai kit extant, and it is merely ok, and past that it is Perry metals or nothing. Maddening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(You know, while we are asking for things )

 Gallahad wrote:
Yes, please please sculpt them about 10-15% larger than normal, and they will come out about right in PVC.

Ah, I totally forgot about PVC shrinkage (particularly on smaller figures). Very good call there! You will need to upsize them even if you want them to come out exactly the same size as they are now.

pancakeonions wrote:
I agree here. Your figures are beautiful, but do run a wee bit small. Would you be open to making them a little bigger? (not much, like half-a-head's height perhaps?)

I'll also play the devil's advocate and lobby for a 'test run' KS of entirely or mostly humanoid monsters. From the RPG angle, there's a glut of heroes out there on the market (particularly after the Reaper Bones KSs) but a set of orcs, goblins, or some other such minions would make an excellent addition to any dungeon master's collection, particularly as nice as I know you can make 'em. This might also give you the option to play a bit with scale. Orcs and goblins (just to carry on with that example) can be of various sizes, but are still humanoid, so you can see how they'd look, and how they might size up if they were human (or human-ish) heroes and troops.

I like where you're going with this, pancakeonions! Tre's bugbear, orcs, and gobbos are some of my favorite, and you're right, you can mess around a lot with scale on non-human things like those.

I would still buy the minis if they got bigger, but honestly, Tre's stuff is exactly in proportion for what it is meant to be.

 Da Boss wrote:
I would still buy the minis if they got bigger, but honestly, Tre's stuff is exactly in proportion for what it is meant to be.

I second this.

Monsters can be any size they need to be though!

I have seen mold tools holding as many as 12 models ( human sized 32mm ) and mold tools holding as few as 6 models of the same general size. I think it depends on who is making the tool nd the shape of the actual figures themselves. The lesser the number of figures in a tool the more often you need to be able to sell those figures in order to break even or ever turn a profit. The same goes for tools with more figures in them but maybe to a lesser extent. So adventurers in plastic either need to be part of a larger set or they need to be more expensive per part to recoup the cost of production.

I think for this test I need to produce something that can be sold as a larger set of figures. This is intended to be a test not only of quality but also of the length of time it takes to produce and deliver and the extent to which it costs to package and deliver to the end user as well.

Scale...... I do not want to change the RBG scale for the fantasy line unless I am going to go for a full on revision of EVERYTHING........... which is do-able but not the goal here. We shall just have to see what comes of this.

As of now I am thinking either orcs and goblins or Anguish men at arms.

If it is between O&G or Aenglish my vote would be for Aenglish. Out of all of the existing RBG themes I think Aenglish are the most versatile. As PC/NPC types for traditional fantasy RPGs or a warband for a skirmish game like Frostgrave or SAGA, etc.

I think light / padded armor troops would be more versatile then heavy armor but maybe a mix or at least one heavily armored sargent character.

If possible modular heads and weapons as this would increase their versatility.

This is gonna be awesome...

Keep in mind Reaper Bones- they do cheap gobbos and orcs very well. DMs can easily fill out dungeon rosters for cheap. Their adventuring minis are something to consider as well, but players are more willing to shell out for a single mini they really like versus a DM needing five goblins for an encounter.

I like Aenglish, but I love your Orcs and Goblins. I would back either, and I guess you have the data to know which sells better so go with that one.

I do love your Orcs though, and having them in PVC would be awesome. Orcs + Goblins would allow you to show off two very different styles of model too- big and chunky vs. small and delicate.

But Aenglish would be good too,

Agreed on making in the Aenglish - plus a big monster or two...

Maybe an Ogre or a Troll or something equivalent?

Maybe a mounted troop or two?

Mounted Aenglish, even one, would make me sit the hell up and pay attention.

 Da Boss wrote:
Mounted Aenglish, even one, would make me sit the hell up and pay attention.

I have to second Da BOss for the second time today!

More Aenglish would be amazing! Would love to see the current troops in PVC, and some heavy armor closed helm ones!

Geeking out imagining a Tre style mounted sergeant looking all weary and determined...

Should calm down and let the man himself make the choices. I didn't even know I wanted Red Box miniatures until I saw them

@Tre
So Re you seriously considering the test run? Because if so that's pretty awesome. I know I'd be willing to chip in a bit to see "High-End" PVC.

Oh yeh the test run is going to happen. I will be finished with the sculpting from the latest KS tomorrow and then it is on to the test run figures and the other project figures. I won't launch the KS until I have heard back from the manufacturer as to how many figures / parts will fit into a tool and what the cost will be so I would imagine sometime around late August or so.

But you'll let us know what the pieces on the test frame will be WAY before that, right?

Some female figures please tre. Thats what pulls me into your campaigns usually.

Oh yeh I will be sure to show tense off well before hand.

I know that figures that are similar in size to mine usually fit 8 to 10per mold if they are single piece. it is the modularity that will be the wrench in the works. I want to have a hands on quote on that before going to KS.