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Same here - I'll take resin (REAL resin!) over metal any day...

 tre manor wrote:

I also want to make a rule book and setting guide, cards for gameplay and actors within the game, fancy boxes for the faction starters etc.

Will there be PDFs? Will you make a token non-mini pledge for people interested in just having the background, as a way to get your foot in their proverbial door?

Like the miniature but he needs to be beefed up in the arms and legs section, he looks like a natural body builder who hasn't drank water for a week.

and about your money comment

I'd suggest that perhaps you might want to consider launching with 2-3 factions rather then 5-6. You can then follow up with additional campaigns for the additional factions.

I say this based on the following:

1) KS issues and fulfilment issues. 5-6 factions seems like an enormous number of unique sculpts (even allowing for modular models), and we know how that can go. Fewer sculpts and fewer figures should mean a slightly simpler campaign to manage and faster turnaround.

2) Doing a book as well - printing is a whole other beast to producing figures - and of course, delays on one end will affect the whole project.

3) I think it's fair to say that you have quite a few fans. Many of these people will want to collect more than one of your factions, and quite a few will want to collect them all. Doing 2-3 in the first wave KS and another 2-3 in subsequent waves lets people afford to buy more models across several campaigns than having to limit themselves in one campaign. For others, it also lets the existing models sell better due to the heightened interest of a current KS (for subsequent campaigns) and people pick up the rules and get keen to start playing. Look at all the people playing DeadZone during the campaign using alt minis - you'd have whole factions available for people to pick up.

If you do this in resin, Tre, just take my money.

Looks promising. I can't wait!

 Azazelx wrote:
I'd suggest that perhaps you might want to consider launching with 2-3 factions rather then 5-6. You can then follow up with additional campaigns for the additional factions.

I say this based on the following:

1) KS issues and fulfilment issues. 5-6 factions seems like an enormous number of unique sculpts (even allowing for modular models), and we know how that can go. Fewer sculpts and fewer figures should mean a slightly simpler campaign to manage and faster turnaround.

2) Doing a book as well - printing is a whole other beast to producing figures - and of course, delays on one end will affect the whole project.

3) I think it's fair to say that you have quite a few fans. Many of these people will want to collect more than one of your factions, and quite a few will want to collect them all. Doing 2-3 in the first wave KS and another 2-3 in subsequent waves lets people afford to buy more models across several campaigns than having to limit themselves in one campaign. For others, it also lets the existing models sell better due to the heightened interest of a current KS (for subsequent campaigns) and people pick up the rules and get keen to start playing. Look at all the people playing DeadZone during the campaign using alt minis - you'd have whole factions available for people to pick up.

This does sound like good advice. I don't think this project necessarily has to be enormous coming out of the gate to be succesful.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'd suggest that perhaps you might want to consider launching with 2-3 factions rather then 5-6. You can then follow up with additional campaigns for the additional factions.

I say this based on the following:

1) KS issues and fulfilment issues. 5-6 factions seems like an enormous number of unique sculpts (even allowing for modular models), and we know how that can go. Fewer sculpts and fewer figures should mean a slightly simpler campaign to manage and faster turnaround.

2) Doing a book as well - printing is a whole other beast to producing figures - and of course, delays on one end will affect the whole project.

3) I think it's fair to say that you have quite a few fans. Many of these people will want to collect more than one of your factions, and quite a few will want to collect them all. Doing 2-3 in the first wave KS and another 2-3 in subsequent waves lets people afford to buy more models across several campaigns than having to limit themselves in one campaign. For others, it also lets the existing models sell better due to the heightened interest of a current KS (for subsequent campaigns) and people pick up the rules and get keen to start playing. Look at all the people playing DeadZone during the campaign using alt minis - you'd have whole factions available for people to pick up.

This!

I had to get out of the previous RBG kickstarter because of unexpected expenses, but I would like to get in to one of Tre's Kickstarters. I think that a small kickstarter with a limited amount of miniatures/factions with more reliable delivery date would be more appealing to me at least.

Based on the sculpts is this going to be some sort of Frazetta-esque fantasy skirmish game?

Thanks for the advice guys.

Your advice is especially intriguing Azazelx. Very good points. I am not afraid of my ability to fulfill what I have on hand but having that many moving parts could easily lead to delays in production. The hard part would be picking which 3 factions to start out with. I think all of the factions I have designs for right now are awesome and they all play off of each other and the central setting theme so well.

That would certainly move the launch date and delivery forward quite a bit as well.

Book printing.....yes, that will be a hurtle to overcome being my first shot at it. I am doing some research on that and plan to tap a few contacts I have to help make that happen a bit more smoothly. I would not immediately hinge everything else upon that though. I suppose a quickstart rules set with a setting and faction overview could work well enough in the first campaign to get things going and I could save the hard back book for a dedicated campaign.

I had considered a lot of this already and was intending to do as much of the up front production work as I could manage / afford before launching anyway hence the delay. I had NOT considered the advantage of having a number of figures available with quickstart rules being available at full price during a second related campaign though. That is good thinking. Thank you.

Ok that is what I am goign to run with then. Now I guess it is time to get it into gear on gettign the rules organized for printing.




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Whoops! Sorry I had forgotten to answer questions..........

Not a duck billed Dino, sorry. This is the mount of a Barbarian Champion and barbarians prefer horns and big teeth to duck bills.

This guy pictured is nto intended to be thickly muscled. Think of him like Spiderman, very lean and lithe. And the intention was in fact to give him the physique of someone who had lived a desert his entire life.

 tre manor wrote:
Not a duck billed Dino, sorry. This is the mount of a Barbarian Champion and barbarians prefer horns and big teeth to duck bills.

This guy pictured is nto intended to be thickly muscled. Think of him like Spiderman, very lean and lithe. And the intention was in fact to give him the physique of someone who had lived a desert his entire life.

Sounds cool, Tre . If I could make one request, and I think I speak for many of your fans:

Please write a nice, paragraph-long description of each character explaining their background, and perhaps a page-long description of each faction. You can then copy/paste these and not have to explain the design elements that you chose. It would also get all of that excellent world-building/background out of your head, and down on paper for all of us to see

 bbb wrote:
Based on the sculpts is this going to be some sort of Frazetta-esque fantasy skirmish game?

I certainly hope so!

Give me a counts as Death Dealer, and we'll all be good to go!

Argh, I am likely to buy pretty much anything Tre makes. If this is a post apoc game or something, dear god.

Seconding Azazel's point about the staggering though, I would probably buy more in total if the KS are staggered as I would be intimidated by the large sum- it's easier to manage two medium purchases over a longer time than one large purchase all at once.

 Da Boss wrote:
Argh, I am likely to buy pretty much anything Tre makes. If this is a post apoc game or something, dear god.

Seconding Azazel's point about the staggering though, I would probably buy more in total if the KS are staggered as I would be intimidated by the large sum- it's easier to manage two medium purchases over a longer time than one large purchase all at once.

And you don't get the stink eye from the spouse. $45 for Tre's Njorn KS project went unnoticed. $250 for the RBG KS got me the stink eye.

You know, when I said "manage", that is pretty much exactly what I meant

I mean, not that my lovely missus actually watches what I buy that closely, but I usually disclose it in the interests of transparency. Foolish perhaps, but it's a lot easier to get away with in little bite sized chunks.

I like the phrase "stink eye" though!

Ill be another vote for a lower faction count in the initial offering.
Keeps things simple for backers and more manageable for Tre.

Looking forward to seeing what's in store.

Yeah, I was in the doghouse for the first RBG Kickstarter too...

Now this is a project I am REALLY interested to see. The models in the pictures look amazing, but this is something expected from Tre. I keep a close eye on this.

Yeah! Less factions equals less upfront costs, which equals less threats of physical harm from the missus.

If you want to run a few mini ones every couple of months, would that be possible?

 Da Boss wrote:
You know, when I said "manage", that is pretty much exactly what I meant

I mean, not that my lovely missus actually watches what I buy that closely, but I usually disclose it in the interests of transparency. Foolish perhaps, but it's a lot easier to get away with in little bite sized chunks.

I like the phrase "stink eye" though!

I disclose as well, but I have a monthly hobby budget that is not $250. So that requires more than the normal, "I put a $45 pledge on a KS. It should fund next month," or "I grabbed a couple new X-Wing boosters at the shop tonight." The stink eye is that you-don't-recall-a-time-that-I-recently-spent-$250-on-something-just-for-me-do-you look. I dislike that look...mostly because it is well-deserved...

However, Tre includes cool shirts in his big KS projects, and the missuss loves a good shirt. A spoonful of sugar and all!

hah hah Weeble. Don't let me get you into trouble!

Yeh the more I think on it running smaller more focused campaigns over a longer period of time makes great sense. Chiefly it allows me to really focus my energy and stay more " in the moment " rather than being beholden to a strict work plan over an extended period of time. I know that two of the first factions will be the barbarians and the undead faction. I figure those will make sure fire successes. The third one is a toss up between about 6 other faction ideas. This discussion has really been helping to fuel the creative fires. I did not get much done on this project today as I was working on the Erebius for Mierce today, I should get back to it tomorrow though.

Tre, will the modular orcs be on the list of factions? No problem if not, but I thought you might've sculpted them with this in mind- they seem like a great fit. Would save some sculpting and molding costs, to boot!

 tre manor wrote:


Thanks for the advice guys.

Your advice is especially intriguing Azazelx. Very good points. I am not afraid of my ability to fulfill what I have on hand but having that many moving parts could easily lead to delays in production. The hard part would be picking which 3 factions to start out with. I think all of the factions I have designs for right now are awesome and they all play off of each other and the central setting theme so well.

That would certainly move the launch date and delivery forward quite a bit as well.

Book printing.....yes, that will be a hurtle to overcome being my first shot at it. I am doing some research on that and plan to tap a few contacts I have to help make that happen a bit more smoothly. I would not immediately hinge everything else upon that though. I suppose a quickstart rules set with a setting and faction overview could work well enough in the first campaign to get things going and I could save the hard back book for a dedicated campaign.

I had considered a lot of this already and was intending to do as much of the up front production work as I could manage / afford before launching anyway hence the delay. I had NOT considered the advantage of having a number of figures available with quickstart rules being available at full price during a second related campaign though. That is good thinking. Thank you.

Ok that is what I am goign to run with then. Now I guess it is time to get it into gear on gettign the rules organized for printing.

Thanks Tre'
I'd suggest picking three factions with the most divergent looks or based on the most popular tropes. Since I haven't seen what your upcoming figures look like, I'd think that humans, elves and orcs (or analogues) would work well, with perhaps swapping out the "orcs" for the most divergent and bestial faction you have. "Good humans" that people can somewhat relate to are a must for one of the launch window factions, I'd say. Maybe have a think about it, pick three that you like and see what the feedback is on your forum and any other interactive/social media locations you're active in (facebook?) - as well as here on Dakka, of course!

Starting with Quickstart rules sounds a good idea. Make them cheap or free on the web (or a mini-rulebook from the first KS and a stripped down version as a free PDF) - that allows playtesting and feedback for a hardcover or perfect bound rulebook in subsequent campaigns. Second campaign is for the "proper" rulebook and 2-3 more factions.

Perhaps 3rd + subsequent KS campaigns could be based around "new lands" expansion books with 2-3 additional factions from the new locations and a couple of new models for existing factions that have some lore connection to the new expansion lands. (as friends, invaders, arch-enemies, etc).

Anvil recently put out a nice little booklet with their KS, and Mantic do a good job with their "no frills" free PDFs for people who just ant to get models and get playing as quickly as possible - which is how people were playing DeadZone during the campaign. Hm. You could almost make up "official-unofficial" packs of RBG models of existing stock to sell before/during the KS if you have a PDF of Beta rules to make available during that time. People who are excited and publicly posting and talking about playing (and enjoying) your game (even alpha/beta rules) during the campaign make for very good viral marketing, since it's genuine enthusiasm.




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Barbarians and Undead sound like great choices for the initial offerings.

Or just delay this KS a bit and then launch how you wanted to initially?

Whatever works for you - I know we're all really looking forward to this!

Ritides; Nope the orcs are for the existign fantasy line....I HAVE to come up with an official name for it.......However there will CERTAINLY be a orc equivalent faction in this new project. They won;t be an " Oh those are Orcs! " kind of thing but they will be an " Oh those must be the ' orcs '. " kind of thing.

This project's primary focus is going to be unique identity. I want people to know which line these items belong to when they see them without havign any other clue other than what they see.

Az, thanks again man. Great advice. Yep the Barbarians in this initial offering would be the " good" guys and the Undead would definitely be the " bad " guys though that distinction won;t always be the same as the line develops.

Now I am trying to decide between an in between kind fo faction or another evil faction or another good faction. Though I would prefer to totally toss out the idea of factions and absolute faction identities. I like the idea of defining the actors within the world as being good or evil based on their individual ethics, associations and agendas rather than which " faction " they belong to. I will of course offer pre-written characters for each faction / race that will be either good or evil btu I also want players to feel encouraged to write their own stories within the world and for those stories to be freely defined.

So the Barbarians could be defined as beign melee heavy and the Undead as being magic heavy....... I guess the third faction should tread the middle ground??

The quickstart rules will be a free booklet included with the faction starters. So a VERY stripped down version fo the rules just to get people playing. Remember the old Confrontation quick start rules booklet that came int he blisters?? That is kind of what I am thinking here, only in a larger format. So yes a PDF would also be available and would not interrupt any sales from the rules booklet.


Thanks Alpharius, I think I will actuall ybe able to make a better success by splitting it up. While on one hand waiting until i have a lot more " factions " to start with it also means it takes longer to get started and I will have to ask for more money to get complete forces for each faction represented, which could easily back fire. So I think this way I can focus on just a smaller selection of forces and flesh them out more fully faster with less money. Given the competition this year I think I might be best served to keep my ambitions in check and go for the smaller dollar amounts distributed over a wider number of people. I am really not going to ask for more than I absolutely have to have to make the production and fulfillment happen so don't expect to see a million dollar campaign out of this one. I will of course plan for every possibility but I am only going to expect to fund the starter sets ( one big beastie, a champ, a set of melee grunts and a set of ranged grunts. ) maybe one or two alternate heroes, and one or two special units for each of the initial factions.

Tre - sounds fair!

Are you thinking that the next KS for this project will be a lot faster to launch to then?

Maybe, it depends on how long it takes to get these first grunt matrixes cast in resin and back in hand.

Argh about the orcs, but fair enough . Could you comment on your plan for selling them, though- will they be put up in the webstore? I wasn't sure if you got extra metal stock cast when you had them made, and you had mentioned you'd sculpted more bodies for them... those really intrigued me.

I may hold off and see what factions you're offering here, it just seemed like a great way to use sculpts that were really popular that you'd already had sculpted and cast, which I think even had ranged and melee options, and were modular... would've fit in so well as that third faction.

So if you can comment on how you'll be selling those, I'd appreciate it

Meanwhile, here I have two thoughts- perhaps the third faction could be ranged heavy (if the others are melee and magic). And I think finding a good resin manufacturer would make it way more popular- look at what Mierce is doing, people love resin! Even at a higher price, and for a low model count game that works.

Sounds like something I could back on ks. Admittedly the postage always buggers up my plans for us ks but if you had a uk distributor id probably jump in having seen your previous work.

As stated above Anvil did a very cool pre kickstarter kickstarter to test the waters and release some inital figures before the main event. The mini book they did was excellent and they are releasing the beta rules to backers to playtest before the main event. It may be worth you checking out what they did. Plus they do really nice resin casts ;

Any idea on a possible launch date?

Yeh, I was really disappointed to have to scrap all of that extra work that went in to the alternate orc bodies. I had to scrap those for the same reason I had to scrap the KS orc torsos. Remember the issue with shrinkage in the arm fittings? That affected the alternate bodies too. To make moatters more costly I had had those bodies cast into the hundreds as well and I could not recover the costs of those castings in full ( a lot of what I am charged for castings is the labour cost of casting them ) so not onyl did I lose all the money that went in to moldign those items I also lost most of the money that went in to castign them for distribution as well. That was a HARD pill to swallow. Those will come back eventually but not just yet. As for the Orcs funded int he kickstarter. They will be available in the web store in the next week or so. I have a restock on the way ( thanks to the money from KS 3 ) that will allow me to begin selling them as regular items in the store.

Resin production is something I am looking in to. Valiant is a great source for resin manufacturing BUT they are SWAMPED with resin work right now. I am trying to think long term with this so I going all resin might not be the way to go. I am exploring the option though.

I cannot imagine that this will launch before April I want to have everythign I expect to fund sculpted and hopefully mastered before the campaign even begins.

Ah, I did not realize you had had to scrap the alternate orc bodies. Was that in an update or forum post somewhere? Sorry to hear that! Is that common with metal molding / do you normally "oversize" to account for shrinkage, or what was different about those bodies and arm fittings?

Great to hear about the regular orcs coming to the webstore, and about your plan to have everything sculpted before April... that sounds quite cool!